fredbob

Considering three of those were brought in by Allardyce (and they weren't exactly cheap), do you think trusting him with more money will see him change targets to something more exotic? General question, not really owt to do with the thread as such. I know you've advocated giving him time. Would of been my secondpoint to Chez! Dave, i'm not sure, thats the biggest question facing the club (as i said after City ). Fruitbat, my point was that the midfielders we have dont have the attributes to match the attributes of our strikers. Both departments are lacking and neither can make up for the inadequacies of the other. So, yes, i think the players are just about playing to their potential which is why we arent any higher up the league. Blame last summer if you want. I tend not to over analyse things so forgive me for not understanding this, but why exactly do we have the wrong kind of strikers for our midfield? We've got tall ones, short one's, fat one's, skinny one's, strong one's and weak one's. Is it the midfield that's wrong? What attributes do the midfield lack when playing at potential. Duff in Blackburn form is an excellent provider and occasssional scorer. As are Milner, Smith and Zoggy on Villa, Leeds and previous form. Butt, Geremi, and Faye are solid as a rock on Man U, Chelsea and current form, while Barton always looked a classy* box to box player at Man City. Sounds like British Rail excuse like the wrong kind of snow on the track. *EDIT: Of course by classy I mean in a working class scumbag, thugish charver, blood and guts way. Not sure if you actually seriously asking me or not.... Viduka and Owen are immobile and slow, Martins is unpredictable. The midfield has no pace or creativity. You can have one or the other but both at the same time means neither makes up for the inadequacies of the other. If the midfield had class and pace, they would pull defenders out of position, allowing the strikers to find space. If the attack had more class and a lot of pace, a hardworking midfield would be able to support them. The lack of mobility up front (and the spatial spackaness of Martins) places greater emphasis on creativity behind them. So you dont think there would be a single manager in the world who could put us in a better position with the squad we have at present? 9 players currently on the books have been brought to the club by Allardyce, with the deals sanctioned by Mort/Ashley. If the vast majority of them aren't good enough, who are you going to blame. Before you reply, consider the transfer fees involved and the competition we had to sign most of them ........ Still. I'm sure that you appear to be happy with the season so far. The books are balanced, and we have a long term "plan". Shame every other club also has a long term "plan", part of which will be to have a better "plan" than our "plan". mate you shouldnt keep putting plan in inverted commas like that, it makes you look mental, planning in business is always beneficial, doesn't matter who's in charge Well, I think people who infer that "plans" bring automatic success in football, are pretty stupid. It makes you look like you are saying the only teams who have "plans" are those who win the league, FA Cup and League Cup. Clearly bollocks, as you clearly had a flawed "plan" for not winning one of these trophies. Thats one hell of a lot of teams without a "plan" by the way. Straw man argument.... Haha it gets better and better. Is it difficult having a 2 way conversation with yourself. you don't understand very much do you I tell you what, if you find me one person who has said that "plans bring automatic success" ill admit that what you're saying is 100% correct. If you cant, then how far and for how long can you actually stretch these "facts" before you finally see you are actually having an argument with your own imagination.

With signings like that it could take fat Sam £100 million to get us into the top 10. I thought that was Parky's original point. Not taking what Parky says completely literally, i wholeheartedly agree with the principle. I knew you would. But I was hoping for a deeper insight from you. There are still a few deluded souls who think we could get more out of our players but most recognise that, on the whole, the squad is where it ought to be in the prem. We need 2 defenders, 3 midfielders and 2 strikers of higher quality than anyone already at the club to be where Ashley said he wanted the club to be in the next few years. I think over the next 18 months, £100m (spent not net spend) isnt far off. Are you categorically saying that the current pefomrances of our individuals are the best we'll ever see of them? Scratch that, not even "best" but a true reflection of what they genreally capable of? No. He's saying that we need 2 defenders, 3 midfielders and 2 strikers of high quality if we are to seriously challenge the top clubs. And, despite what you think, we aren't going to do this by looking around for cheap young players and cheap foreigners and bargains. Mick will confirm this is how the club was run for decades prior to 1992. f*** it, we have £2000m pounds behind us, lets get the 11 best player we can get. That'll show real ambition. Dammit, i bit EDIT: my comment was in reference to his "deluded fans" bit, man, how long are you gonna be sniping my posts? I cant really be doing with your crap to be honest, you had a debate with me, you lost it, get over yourself man. I don't lose to anybody who hasn't got a clue Is that one of your "opinions" or "FACTS"? Fact. I decided it was futile to continue Shame, i could of helped you understand what a "Fact" was.

Considering three of those were brought in by Allardyce (and they weren't exactly cheap), do you think trusting him with more money will see him change targets to something more exotic? General question, not really owt to do with the thread as such. I know you've advocated giving him time. Would of been my secondpoint to Chez! Dave, i'm not sure, thats the biggest question facing the club (as i said after City ). Fruitbat, my point was that the midfielders we have dont have the attributes to match the attributes of our strikers. Both departments are lacking and neither can make up for the inadequacies of the other. So, yes, i think the players are just about playing to their potential which is why we arent any higher up the league. Blame last summer if you want. I tend not to over analyse things so forgive me for not understanding this, but why exactly do we have the wrong kind of strikers for our midfield? We've got tall ones, short one's, fat one's, skinny one's, strong one's and weak one's. Is it the midfield that's wrong? What attributes do the midfield lack when playing at potential. Duff in Blackburn form is an excellent provider and occasssional scorer. As are Milner, Smith and Zoggy on Villa, Leeds and previous form. Butt, Geremi, and Faye are solid as a rock on Man U, Chelsea and current form, while Barton always looked a classy* box to box player at Man City. Sounds like British Rail excuse like the wrong kind of snow on the track. *EDIT: Of course by classy I mean in a working class scumbag, thugish charver, blood and guts way. Not sure if you actually seriously asking me or not.... Viduka and Owen are immobile and slow, Martins is unpredictable. The midfield has no pace or creativity. You can have one or the other but both at the same time means neither makes up for the inadequacies of the other. If the midfield had class and pace, they would pull defenders out of position, allowing the strikers to find space. If the attack had more class and a lot of pace, a hardworking midfield would be able to support them. The lack of mobility up front (and the spatial spackaness of Martins) places greater emphasis on creativity behind them. So you dont think there would be a single manager in the world who could put us in a better position with the squad we have at present? 9 players currently on the books have been brought to the club by Allardyce, with the deals sanctioned by Mort/Ashley. If the vast majority of them aren't good enough, who are you going to blame. Before you reply, consider the transfer fees involved and the competition we had to sign most of them ........ Still. I'm sure that you appear to be happy with the season so far. The books are balanced, and we have a long term "plan". Shame every other club also has a long term "plan", part of which will be to have a better "plan" than our "plan". mate you shouldnt keep putting plan in inverted commas like that, it makes you look mental, planning in business is always beneficial, doesn't matter who's in charge Well, I think people who infer that "plans" bring automatic success in football, are pretty stupid. It makes you look like you are saying the only teams who have "plans" are those who win the league, FA Cup and League Cup. Clearly bollocks, as you clearly had a flawed "plan" for not winning one of these trophies. Thats one hell of a lot of teams without a "plan" by the way. Straw man argument.... Haha it gets better and better. Is it difficult having a 2 way conversation with yourself.

With signings like that it could take fat Sam £100 million to get us into the top 10. I thought that was Parky's original point. Not taking what Parky says completely literally, i wholeheartedly agree with the principle. I knew you would. But I was hoping for a deeper insight from you. There are still a few deluded souls who think we could get more out of our players but most recognise that, on the whole, the squad is where it ought to be in the prem. We need 2 defenders, 3 midfielders and 2 strikers of higher quality than anyone already at the club to be where Ashley said he wanted the club to be in the next few years. I think over the next 18 months, £100m (spent not net spend) isnt far off. Are you categorically saying that the current pefomrances of our individuals are the best we'll ever see of them? Scratch that, not even "best" but a true reflection of what they genreally capable of? No. He's saying that we need 2 defenders, 3 midfielders and 2 strikers of high quality if we are to seriously challenge the top clubs. And, despite what you think, we aren't going to do this by looking around for cheap young players and cheap foreigners and bargains. Mick will confirm this is how the club was run for decades prior to 1992. f*** it, we have £2000m pounds behind us, lets get the 11 best player we can get. That'll show real ambition. Dammit, i bit EDIT: my comment was in reference to his "deluded fans" bit, man, how long are you gonna be sniping my posts? I cant really be doing with your crap to be honest, you had a debate with me, you lost it, get over yourself man. I don't lose to anybody who hasn't got a clue Is that one of your "opinions" or "FACTS"?

With signings like that it could take fat Sam £100 million to get us into the top 10. I thought that was Parky's original point. Not taking what Parky says completely literally, i wholeheartedly agree with the principle. I knew you would. But I was hoping for a deeper insight from you. There are still a few deluded souls who think we could get more out of our players but most recognise that, on the whole, the squad is where it ought to be in the prem. We need 2 defenders, 3 midfielders and 2 strikers of higher quality than anyone already at the club to be where Ashley said he wanted the club to be in the next few years. I think over the next 18 months, £100m (spent not net spend) isnt far off. Are you categorically saying that the current pefomrances of our individuals are the best we'll ever see of them? Scratch that, not even "best" but a true reflection of what they genreally capable of? No. He's saying that we need 2 defenders, 3 midfielders and 2 strikers of high quality if we are to seriously challenge the top clubs. And, despite what you think, we aren't going to do this by looking around for cheap young players and cheap foreigners and bargains. Mick will confirm this is how the club was run for decades prior to 1992. f*** it, we have £2000m pounds behind us, lets get the 11 best player we can get. That'll show real ambition. Dammit, i bit EDIT: my comment was in reference to his "deluded fans" bit, man, how long are you gonna be sniping my posts? I cant really be doing with your crap to be honest, you had a debate with me, you lost it, get over yourself man.

...following that logic (painful) even if we spent 50m on 2/3 players they still wouldn't come....eh? You think we can't attract top players? The PL is now the No.1 destination of most top players in the world read the opening article. Thought so. I don't think we can't, I know we can't. f****** Steve Sidwell didn't even want to come. Not good enough. You know jack s*** from what Iv'e read so far. Sorry. I just don't buy all this we can't attract quality lark. Football is a speculative business model. remnants of the old "fat b****** to blame for everything" era. And clearly bollocks too. Nobody bite

You would only believe they were achieving their maximum if you believed Sam was the best coach in the world. Other, better managers, of course could do better and the best one could get the maximum out of them. Some on here think that Souness is one of those better managers, their opinion of Sam is so low. So are you saying that what Allardyce is getting from the players is possibly the best he can do according to his ability? Just a genral question, i think we're diverging here a little Not looking to scrutinize your answer!!

We can get 3 players for the best part of £50m as Souey proved. That was years ago, we were a champions league chasing side, in the UEFA cup. We could then, we can't now. What? We'd finished 14th in the Premiership the season before we signed those players and we weren't in Europe in any form. We're a premiership side, that's enough to attract big players if you're willing to spend the cash. Of course it also doesn't hurt that we've at least been in Europe plenty of times unlike most of the rest of the Premiership.. Teasy - Dont say nowt but Man City who finished 14th last season went out & spent about £40 million on incoming players in the summer & are now sitting in a Champions League spot. You think £15m is the difference between 12th and 4th? No that would be 8 postions in the league table. Well said.

Considering three of those were brought in by Allardyce (and they weren't exactly cheap), do you think trusting him with more money will see him change targets to something more exotic? General question, not really owt to do with the thread as such. I know you've advocated giving him time. Would of been my secondpoint to Chez! Dave, i'm not sure, thats the biggest question facing the club (as i said after City ). Fruitbat, my point was that the midfielders we have dont have the attributes to match the attributes of our strikers. Both departments are lacking and neither can make up for the inadequacies of the other. So, yes, i think the players are just about playing to their potential which is why we arent any higher up the league. Blame last summer if you want. I tend not to over analyse things so forgive me for not understanding this, but why exactly do we have the wrong kind of strikers for our midfield? We've got tall ones, short one's, fat one's, skinny one's, strong one's and weak one's. Is it the midfield that's wrong? What attributes do the midfield lack when playing at potential. Duff in Blackburn form is an excellent provider and occasssional scorer. As are Milner, Smith and Zoggy on Villa, Leeds and previous form. Butt, Geremi, and Faye are solid as a rock on Man U, Chelsea and current form, while Barton always looked a classy* box to box player at Man City. Sounds like British Rail excuse like the wrong kind of snow on the track. *EDIT: Of course by classy I mean in a working class scumbag, thugish charver, blood and guts way. Not sure if you actually seriously asking me or not.... Viduka and Owen are immobile and slow, Martins is unpredictable. The midfield has no pace or creativity. You can have one or the other but both at the same time means neither makes up for the inadequacies of the other. If the midfield had class and pace, they would pull defenders out of position, allowing the strikers to find space. If the attack had more class and a lot of pace, a hardworking midfield would be able to support them. The lack of mobility up front (and the spatial spackaness of Martins) places greater emphasis on creativity behind them. So you dont think there would be a single manager in the world who could put us in a better position with the squad we have at present? I hope this is leading somewhere about the quality of the squad, otherwise you've taken my trick of asking a subtle question but without the 'relevant' bit. Of course i think there are better managers than Sam out there, who of course could do better. If you think Mourinho or Capello would win the league with our lot then my nickname for you is spot on I'll save the Sam debate for that thread though I never said anyhting about winning the league, however i am one of those "deluded souls who think we could get more out of our players" and apperently so are you, only in denial. My point GayGiven, is that until Allardyce gets any improvments out of the players he has at the moment, i wouldnt be entirley confident that signing big players would make any difference to the current situation. Maybe a little, but i dont think enough to justify the huge prices. Cock up bum, dont tell mum, as my brother says. [/jjc] I can see that argument, i also see high quality players as more of an attraction to a prospective manager. Who wants to inherit s****? I think a decent midfield would make a massive difference to the current situation and that means offering big money for some big players. Yes you can scout them and yes you can unearth gems, we should be doing that too of course. Those other routes are not likely to yield all the solutions though, otherwise spending wouldnt be as high overall. Fair point, i just dont think that the big problem with this team is the weak positions, but more the way we are playing and the effect of Allardyces method. Dont get me wrong, i will support Allardyce but i just believe that saying this squad is achiveing its maximum because is s*** (not saying that is your view) is short sighted and pretty naive. No, quite right, i never said that and i dont think anyone on this forum has ever said that either. However, quite why we should perservere with the belief that some of our players are up to the job when the evidence suggests they are not is beyond me (not saying that is your view ) Potential=maximum ? Fair point, but it lead onto the point as to why they arent upto the job when quite clearly they all collectively have the ability to be doing much much better!

We can get 3 players for the best part of £50m as Souey proved. That was years ago, we were a champions league chasing side, in the UEFA cup. We could then, we can't now. What? We'd finished 14th in the Premiership the season before we signed those players and we weren't in Europe in any form. We're a premiership side, that's enough to attract big players if you're willing to spend the cash. Of course it also doesn't hurt that we've at least been in Europe plenty of times unlike most of the rest of the Premiership.. Teasy - Dont say nowt but Man City who finished 14th last season went out & spent about £40 million on incoming players in the summer & are now sitting in a Champions League spot. You think £15m is the difference between 12th and 4th?

Considering three of those were brought in by Allardyce (and they weren't exactly cheap), do you think trusting him with more money will see him change targets to something more exotic? General question, not really owt to do with the thread as such. I know you've advocated giving him time. Would of been my secondpoint to Chez! Dave, i'm not sure, thats the biggest question facing the club (as i said after City ). Fruitbat, my point was that the midfielders we have dont have the attributes to match the attributes of our strikers. Both departments are lacking and neither can make up for the inadequacies of the other. So, yes, i think the players are just about playing to their potential which is why we arent any higher up the league. Blame last summer if you want. I tend not to over analyse things so forgive me for not understanding this, but why exactly do we have the wrong kind of strikers for our midfield? We've got tall ones, short one's, fat one's, skinny one's, strong one's and weak one's. Is it the midfield that's wrong? What attributes do the midfield lack when playing at potential. Duff in Blackburn form is an excellent provider and occasssional scorer. As are Milner, Smith and Zoggy on Villa, Leeds and previous form. Butt, Geremi, and Faye are solid as a rock on Man U, Chelsea and current form, while Barton always looked a classy* box to box player at Man City. Sounds like British Rail excuse like the wrong kind of snow on the track. *EDIT: Of course by classy I mean in a working class scumbag, thugish charver, blood and guts way. Not sure if you actually seriously asking me or not.... Viduka and Owen are immobile and slow, Martins is unpredictable. The midfield has no pace or creativity. You can have one or the other but both at the same time means neither makes up for the inadequacies of the other. If the midfield had class and pace, they would pull defenders out of position, allowing the strikers to find space. If the attack had more class and a lot of pace, a hardworking midfield would be able to support them. The lack of mobility up front (and the spatial spackaness of Martins) places greater emphasis on creativity behind them. So you dont think there would be a single manager in the world who could put us in a better position with the squad we have at present? I hope this is leading somewhere about the quality of the squad, otherwise you've taken my trick of asking a subtle question but without the 'relevant' bit. Of course i think there are better managers than Sam out there, who of course could do better. If you think Mourinho or Capello would win the league with our lot then my nickname for you is spot on I'll save the Sam debate for that thread though I never said anyhting about winning the league, however i am one of those "deluded souls who think we could get more out of our players" and apperently so are you, only in denial. My point GayGiven, is that until Allardyce gets any improvments out of the players he has at the moment, i wouldnt be entirley confident that signing big players would make any difference to the current situation. Maybe a little, but i dont think enough to justify the huge prices. Cock up bum, dont tell mum, as my brother says. [/jjc] I can see that argument, i also see high quality players as more of an attraction to a prospective manager. Who wants to inherit s****? I think a decent midfield would make a massive difference to the current situation and that means offering big money for some big players. Yes you can scout them and yes you can unearth gems, we should be doing that too of course. Those other routes are not likely to yield all the solutions though, otherwise spending wouldnt be as high overall. Fair point, i just dont think that the big problem with this team is the weak positions, but more the way we are playing and the effect of Allardyces method. Dont get me wrong, i will support Allardyce but i just believe that saying this squad is achiveing its maximum because is shit (not saying that is your view) is short sighted and pretty naive.

Considering three of those were brought in by Allardyce (and they weren't exactly cheap), do you think trusting him with more money will see him change targets to something more exotic? General question, not really owt to do with the thread as such. I know you've advocated giving him time. Would of been my secondpoint to Chez! Dave, i'm not sure, thats the biggest question facing the club (as i said after City ). Fruitbat, my point was that the midfielders we have dont have the attributes to match the attributes of our strikers. Both departments are lacking and neither can make up for the inadequacies of the other. So, yes, i think the players are just about playing to their potential which is why we arent any higher up the league. Blame last summer if you want. I tend not to over analyse things so forgive me for not understanding this, but why exactly do we have the wrong kind of strikers for our midfield? We've got tall ones, short one's, fat one's, skinny one's, strong one's and weak one's. Is it the midfield that's wrong? What attributes do the midfield lack when playing at potential. Duff in Blackburn form is an excellent provider and occasssional scorer. As are Milner, Smith and Zoggy on Villa, Leeds and previous form. Butt, Geremi, and Faye are solid as a rock on Man U, Chelsea and current form, while Barton always looked a classy* box to box player at Man City. Sounds like British Rail excuse like the wrong kind of snow on the track. *EDIT: Of course by classy I mean in a working class scumbag, thugish charver, blood and guts way. Not sure if you actually seriously asking me or not.... Viduka and Owen are immobile and slow, Martins is unpredictable. The midfield has no pace or creativity. You can have one or the other but both at the same time means neither makes up for the inadequacies of the other. If the midfield had class and pace, they would pull defenders out of position, allowing the strikers to find space. If the attack had more class and a lot of pace, a hardworking midfield would be able to support them. The lack of mobility up front (and the spatial spackaness of Martins) places greater emphasis on creativity behind them. So you dont think there would be a single manager in the world who could put us in a better position with the squad we have at present? I hope this is leading somewhere about the quality of the squad, otherwise you've taken my trick of asking a subtle question but without the 'relevant' bit. Of course i think there are better managers than Sam out there, who of course could do better. If you think Mourinho or Capello would win the league with our lot then my nickname for you is spot on I'll save the Sam debate for that thread though I never said anyhting about winning the league, however i am one of those "deluded souls who think we could get more out of our players" and apperently so are you, only in denial. My point GayGiven, is that until Allardyce gets any improvments out of the players he has at the moment, i wouldnt be entirley confident that signing big players would make any difference to the current situation. Maybe a little, but i dont think enough to justify the huge prices.

A little off topic but who was it who hadnt even sgined for Birmingham but criticised the training methods during a trial...cant remeber.

Considering three of those were brought in by Allardyce (and they weren't exactly cheap), do you think trusting him with more money will see him change targets to something more exotic? General question, not really owt to do with the thread as such. I know you've advocated giving him time. Would of been my secondpoint to Chez! Dave, i'm not sure, thats the biggest question facing the club (as i said after City ). Fruitbat, my point was that the midfielders we have dont have the attributes to match the attributes of our strikers. Both departments are lacking and neither can make up for the inadequacies of the other. So, yes, i think the players are just about playing to their potential which is why we arent any higher up the league. Blame last summer if you want. I tend not to over analyse things so forgive me for not understanding this, but why exactly do we have the wrong kind of strikers for our midfield? We've got tall ones, short one's, fat one's, skinny one's, strong one's and weak one's. Is it the midfield that's wrong? What attributes do the midfield lack when playing at potential. Duff in Blackburn form is an excellent provider and occasssional scorer. As are Milner, Smith and Zoggy on Villa, Leeds and previous form. Butt, Geremi, and Faye are solid as a rock on Man U, Chelsea and current form, while Barton always looked a classy* box to box player at Man City. Sounds like British Rail excuse like the wrong kind of snow on the track. *EDIT: Of course by classy I mean in a working class scumbag, thugish charver, blood and guts way. Not sure if you actually seriously asking me or not.... Viduka and Owen are immobile and slow, Martins is unpredictable. The midfield has no pace or creativity. You can have one or the other but both at the same time means neither makes up for the inadequacies of the other. If the midfield had class and pace, they would pull defenders out of position, allowing the strikers to find space. If the attack had more class and a lot of pace, a hardworking midfield would be able to support them. The lack of mobility up front (and the spatial spackaness of Martins) places greater emphasis on creativity behind them. So you dont think there would be a single manager in the world who could put us in a better position with the squad we have at present?

...following that logic (painful) even if we spent 50m on 2/3 players they still wouldn't come....eh? You think we can't attract top players? The PL is now the No.1 destination of most top players in the world read the opening article. Thought so. I don't think we can't, I know we can't. f****** Steve Sidwell didn't even want to come. Not good enough. You know jack s*** from what Iv'e read so far. Sorry. I just don't buy all this we can't attract quality lark. Football is a speculative business model. Are you pissed? Sidwell is not f****** good enough. Look we either compete and therefore start to spend to match our ambitions or we w*** on about Sidwell and Santa Clause or Cruz or whatever other muppet someone turns up for 5m..... The point is my dear boy, Sidwell DIDN'T WANT TO COME? How exactly are we attracting all these players better than him? We looked a joke chasing Rooney, and we'd look a joke chasing anyone else in that bracket at the moment. The point is now we have a billionaire owner, no debt, 25% more telly money, the richest league on the planet. talk of breakaway leagues, branding in Asia....Read the script ringo and the agree with me. Or move away I ain't selling peanuts. Parky, you talk daft in chat and it's funny, but football is serious man. Even when Shearer came and we were challenging, everyone outside Newcastle knew he was daft, it was just geordie loyalty that brought him here (and god bless him for it). I know you love this thread baby cause you rarely post in footie. Listen, Some people see the train, some people can even hear the train coming and some people need to look at the timetable.... I am the f****** train.

Considering three of those were brought in by Allardyce (and they weren't exactly cheap), do you think trusting him with more money will see him change targets to something more exotic? General question, not really owt to do with the thread as such. I know you've advocated giving him time. Would of been my secondpoint to Chez!

With signings like that it could take fat Sam £100 million to get us into the top 10. I thought that was Parky's original point. Not taking what Parky says completely literally, i wholeheartedly agree with the principle. I knew you would. But I was hoping for a deeper insight from you. There are still a few deluded souls who think we could get more out of our players but most recognise that, on the whole, the squad is where it ought to be in the prem. We need 2 defenders, 3 midfielders and 2 strikers of higher quality than anyone already at the club to be where Ashley said he wanted the club to be in the next few years. I think over the next 18 months, £100m (spent not net spend) isnt far off. Are you categorically saying that the current pefomrances of our individuals are the best we'll ever see of them? Scratch that, not even "best" but a true reflection of what they genreally capable of? Are Barton, Geremi, Duff and Smith the sort of midfield that gets the best out of slow immobile attackers? Take your time. Thats not what im saying, and it isnt what you said (or implied for that matter). Back to the question, do you think that we have seen the best or anywhere near good enough consistent perfomrances from our players? Has Allardyce shown any ability of yet to bring out good perfomracnes from these players?

With signings like that it could take fat Sam £100 million to get us into the top 10. I thought that was Parky's original point. Not taking what Parky says completely literally, i wholeheartedly agree with the principle. I knew you would. But I was hoping for a deeper insight from you. There are still a few deluded souls who think we could get more out of our players but most recognise that, on the whole, the squad is where it ought to be in the prem. We need 2 defenders, 3 midfielders and 2 strikers of higher quality than anyone already at the club to be where Ashley said he wanted the club to be in the next few years. I think over the next 18 months, £100m (spent not net spend) isnt far off. Are you categorically saying that the current pefomrances of our individuals are the best we'll ever see of them? Scratch that, not even "best" but a true reflection of what they genreally capable of?

We can get 3 players for the best part of £50m as Souey proved. Well this kinda leads back to my point, spending big on players is useless if you arent competent enough to get the best out of them. Most of Sounesses signing were justifiable but when it came down to it, they didnt perform because the management and coaching wasnt upto scratch. This is why i would be against giving Allardyce so much money in suchg a short period of time, becuase as it stands in my book he hasnt done anthing with his signings and hasnt brought on the games of many or any of the players that we have at the club. Its a recipe for disaster if you ask me.

Jesus wept, Ashley has been in charge here for about 6 months, he spent a fortune buying the club, then spent £75million on debts and also gave Sam funds in the summer, what the f*** more could he have done in the 6 months he has been here like? I have a feeling that this thread maybe goig down a different route very soon!!!

why on earth do you want to make a profit on a player mackems.gif No so much a need to make a profit on a player, but more of a case of that we havent really been a club which has transformed players or improved on them. Which is a big issue in itself. You said "when was the last time we made a profit on a player" If its alright by you, I am rather glad we kept Rob Lee, John Beresford, Alan Shearer, Gary Speed, Shay Given, Warren Barton, Laurent Robert, even Kieron Dire in his first few years, to name a few, rather than make profits on them. oh dear. Fair point, not what i meant as my second post reiterates my actual point but well done, you can mark that one onto ya little victory chalk board. But, do not you not see under which managers these were at there most profitable, that says a lot about he stae of the club at the mo as we have made some laughable losses. What id like to see, for the first time in 4 years is a set up which is able to sustain the value and even improve the value of our players as it is a massive indication of success on the pitch. I dont think this is a 10 years thing either, this is a coaching thing to be able to improve players, Mourihno for example brought on the games of Lampard, JCole Terry etc in a matter of a season. Investment is definitely required though.

So other more appealing clubs are going to step aside? Surely the same can be said about the £15m+ players? The point is if we're going to compete at the top table we are going to have to match spend and sometimes outbid. I agree, but i think sayin £100m by the end of the summer is a hugely unrealisitc and overly pessimistic price.

So other more appealing clubs are going to step aside? Surely the same can be said about the £15m+ players?

Who? Owen, Duff, Barton, Geremi....all players which havent shown a great deal of anything as of yet. Would like to see something which resembles a performance from any of the afore mentioned. They're all s****. None of them would get into a team in the top 4, probably not even the top 6 or 8 at this point of time. Maybe not the top top4, but they all have shown that they have qualities which arent being replicated in the black and white pitch, its laughalbe that you can rwrite them off so easily, players dont turn crap overnight.

Who? Owen, Duff, Barton, Geremi....all players which havent shown a great deal of anything as of yet. Would like to see something which resembles a performance from any of the afore mentioned.