fredbob

Classic football spin, while talking about signings mention the return of the long term sick. Do some people actually buy this s***? I am surprised he didnt go the whole hog and say "Its like signing 3 new players" So what do you think he means when he mentions Duff et al? Are you trying to say that he's implying "that we dont need new players because of the returns of ....." Pretty cynical view considering he's openly said and actually bid for a couple of players.

One of my favourite goals, the mna oozed class, probably the best technical player ive ever seen.

I personally would want Klinsmann over Shearer. Like Parky says, he would have far more contacts which are vital in finding plyers. He's got a bit of experinece on a massive stage and been successsfull and has implemented a good style of football as well. Shearer is such an unknown quantity and i's rather not risk thenew found stability we have at the club on a complete unknown. Its begging for failure in my eyes. The thing that irratates me with Shearer is that he seems to be waiting for the job, fully aware that his hero status will always propels him to the top of every new managers list there is at the club. If he has a style of management, i want to see it implemented at a different club before he takes ours.

Pretty much! Henry and Cantona were sublime as well.

Merson is s**** like. "That bloke" "whats-his-name" "him who managed that club" "The defender who headed that ball in the back of the net" "Where am i?" Sobriety is certainly working for him. Agenda ridden article. Whats Allardyce supposed to do? Come out and say "sorry lads its my fault we're playing crap" Im prettysure he's well aware that he's at fault. What a stupid article. Curry favouring himself with the the fans.

That is true, but I think now that, looking at our forward players en-bloc, we lack certain types of player. For instance, Viduka has almost zero mobility, Martins can't control possession, Owen has hardly played and even when he does, has always been a player who feeds off his partner. We have no outlet. We have no mobility. We have no desire to create situations, or better still force situations. We have no player to support the front players consistently, the only player with dribbling ability and pace is playing left back most of the time. We almost need a complete overhaul of all our forwards and midfield players now. And the sad thing is, the REALLY sad thing, is that Craig Bellamy supplied almost all of these things we are lacking badly. Absolutley. Ive said ths before but i rarely see any of our wingers looking to make runs past the full back. Duff the other night when he got fouled by the Onuhua before their goal was the first time i saw one of our wingers try and get behind the full back.This is key for a creative midfilder to be effective, look how many times Petrov and Ireland looked to get behind the defence. This is the main reason why i dont think having a creative midfielder will have that much of a dramatic effect because the outlets arent great. As regard to the defence, i think the problem lies primarily with the protection of the defence. Most games this season the defenders seem to have decent games yet we still conceed, this suggest 2 things to me, that the partnership is ineffective and that the defence is exposed too much to the attacking teams. I dont think Butt is providing good enough protection, even against man city i thought that Elano found himself with too much time in advanced positions a little too often. No one was picking his run up from deep for his goal, a responsiblity of the DM in my opinion.

Wrong again. What a surprise. So you're telling me what my views are? Errr no. You are. Errr...if you insist.

Not quite, alot of what UV said isnt what ive intimated at all. For example: I mean, where have i said that, in fact where have i said anything about it being a bad idea trying to improve our squad, again, i was saying that it would be in this clubs best interest to lower there expectations, just a little. We should aim to get a bit of stability in the club before we look to play our hand ambition wise. Not quite the same as: Not quite the same thing. Again, not quite what im trying to say, we should sign players, no doubt, but i dont think the ambitions of the board need to be implemented in this transfer period. In my opinin, the board wouldnt be showing there ambition for the club if they looked to improve weaknesses.

mackems.gif

6 good quality centre halves? Bare in mind that this 2 is rejects from their respective clubs. Yeh but they've all shown reasonable amounts of quality. Most of our squad are rejecs from bigger clubs. In fact id say 80% of them are.

Wrong again. What a surprise. So you're telling me what my views are?

Convincing argument.

Crikey, 2 more centre defenders? That would make 6 good quality centre halves we have at the club. Thats possibly a little too much for my liking. That would really fuck us up, theres 15 different combination fo centre halves there.

I guess I'm just stupid but I don't understand what the "demtrimental effects of raising the already sky high expectations" are. I understand my sky high expectations which are currently "avoiding relegation" may be raised to "getting over 40 points" by the almost criminal act of buying players in January but I'm not sure how that is detrimental to the club. Please enlighten me further oh knowledgeable one. PS Are you Chris Mort? If "avoiding relegation" is your definition of sky high expectation, then does that mean that you are pretty happy with things so far? If not, then why? People dont seem to except that the past 4 years were part of our history, i seem to get the impression that people regard the past 4 years as something of a blip. I dont, i see it as the current state of our club, i get the impression that people see us as a team who should be challenging for European places, something which has actually been quite sporadic throught our recent history. It depends how you view the club at the moment alot of the fans seem to think we could be finishing in the top 6, especially after the signings we've made. The signings havent turned out too well at the moment and people are using the expectation that a top 6 finish was a possibility as a valid reason for lambasting the position that we find ourselves in. Sam looks to be on the verge and its purely down to the fact that people expect us to be in a better position than we are at the mo, but why? Becasue of the expectations that had arisen from the Keegan era, and more recently the SBR era, in fact its the expectations of the Keegan era which ended up getting SBR sacked. How can we sustain any level of success without any stability. I dont understand how people dont see how attempting to break into the top4 (our eventual goal) should be a slow process. Hope you have been "enlightened" oh ignorant one. Yes I think I get it. Allardyce shouldn't have been given any transfer funds in the Summer to attempt to improve on the squad which finished 7th under Souness and Roeder as this raised fans expectations to a dangerous level where people foolishly expected to see signs of results and/or performances where we at least look like we might reach those dizzying heights once again, which is of course really bad for the club. Buying any more players in January in an attempt to improve the team would take us up to critical levels of expectation which would be even worse for the club. As a club we should aim to hang around in the mid to lower table positions for a number of seasons until fans expectations have reached a safe level so that hopefully we can be content with mid to lower table finishes each year, just being happy to stay in the league. This will reduce the pressure on the manager and board which as history has shown is the route to success. Of course, should we at some point in the future finish in a UEFA cup place as is the privilege of clubs which keep their managers for long enough, then we'll have to make sure we drop out of the competition as early as possible and sell off a few of our better players to avoid expectations rising to dangerous levels once again. Is that right? I only want to have the best interests of the club at heart. Yes, that's exactly it summed up very nicely. Yep, thats UV's views summed up nicely, but not mine.

mackems.gif I think this thread should now be closed and made a sticky after that classic piece of tripe above. were i to play devils advocate and ask what gave it its tripe like qualities, what would your response be? My response would be that if you can't see the obvious for yourself it isn't worth my time explaining. I imagine by now you've read posts from others of the same belief as myself. Ask one of them, they may have more patience with your type than I have. Cheers Cop out. Cheers

I don't think Man U would be better off with another £80m to spend minus Ronaldo. Where would they put that money? They'd need a new RW, but that's about it really, except perhaps for back-up players. So, who'd they spend that cash on to make them a better team? Messi? Couldn't agree more, why fix something that isn't broken. But its not a case of "why fix something that isn't broken" - i'm sure Man U don't wonna sell him, and Fergie doesn't want the £80m, BUT if Ronaldo decides he's away, they'll have no option but to fix the fucker. Which you claim is possible, how can Manchester United replace Cristiano Ronaldo with a replacement who is capable of scoring/assisting the amount of goals he does? As Towelie said, even with 60m you couldn't do that unless you bought someone of similar ability like Messi for e.g What are the chance of that happening? Your comment was about not fixing it if it aint broken. If Ronaldo wants to leave, it will have to be fixed. Do you reckon Manure couldnt win the league without him? Yep he's a fuckin awesome player, and almost impossible to replace but other clubs have lost great players, spent the money wisely and still been equally as successful. You could have similar arguments for Henry at Arsenal, Owen at Liverpool or Van Nistelrooy at Man U. Totally wrong, the three players you just mentioned left their clubs after they'd had their best years at the club, Ronaldo is playing the best football of his career at the moment. Gonna have to agree to disagree, particularly on your last point. So he isn't playing the best football of his career? Just after winning the player and players player of the year awards, also been named the 3rd best player in the world, when would you say he was playing his best football then? Probably not worth £80m, yet but would definitely breakthe world record for transfer fee. £60-65m wouldnt be exactly unrealistic, would pay for himself with shirt sales and his contribution on the pitch would be priceless, He's a winger who scroing more than most strikers in the best league in the world for fucks sake.

Well in all fairness i wasnt arguing the time that a player should be signed my posts were in respone to someone saying the board need to prove there ambition this January period. Something which i disagreed with. Got dragged about the place though.....again.

I guess I'm just stupid but I don't understand what the "demtrimental effects of raising the already sky high expectations" are. I understand my sky high expectations which are currently "avoiding relegation" may be raised to "getting over 40 points" by the almost criminal act of buying players in January but I'm not sure how that is detrimental to the club. Please enlighten me further oh knowledgeable one. PS Are you Chris Mort? If "avoiding relegation" is your definition of sky high expectation, then does that mean that you are pretty happy with things so far? If not, then why? People dont seem to except that the past 4 years were part of our history, i seem to get the impression that people regard the past 4 years as something of a blip. I dont, i see it as the current state of our club, i get the impression that people see us as a team who should be challenging for European places, something which has actually been quite sporadic throught our recent history. It depends how you view the club at the moment alot of the fans seem to think we could be finishing in the top 6, especially after the signings we've made. The signings havent turned out too well at the moment and people are using the expectation that a top 6 finish was a possibility as a valid reason for lambasting the position that we find ourselves in. Sam looks to be on the verge and its purely down to the fact that people expect us to be in a better position than we are at the mo, but why? Becasue of the expectations that had arisen from the Keegan era, and more recently the SBR era, in fact its the expectations of the Keegan era which ended up getting SBR sacked. How can we sustain any level of success without any stability. I dont understand how people dont see how attempting to break into the top4 (our eventual goal) should be a slow process. Hope you have been "enlightened" oh ignorant one. Yes I think I get it. Allardyce shouldn't have been given any transfer funds in the Summer to attempt to improve on the squad which finished 7th under Souness and Roeder as this raised fans expectations to a dangerous level where people foolishly expected to see signs of results and/or performances where we at least look like we might reach those dizzying heights once again, which is of course really bad for the club. Buying any more players in January in an attempt to improve the team would take us up to critical levels of expectation which would be even worse for the club. As a club we should aim to hang around in the mid to lower table positions for a number of seasons until fans expectations have reached a safe level so that hopefully we can be content with mid to lower table finishes each year, just being happy to stay in the league. This will reduce the pressure on the manager and board which as history has shown is the route to success. Of course, should we at some point in the future finish in a UEFA cup place as is the privilege of clubs which keep their managers for long enough, then we'll have to make sure we drop out of the competition as early as possible and sell off a few of our better players to avoid expectations rising to dangerous levels once again. Is that right? I only want to have the best interests of the club at heart. this is getting rather excitingly close to how the club was run for decades pre-1992 Do you think it would be a good idea to pump £100m this jan period? If not, then you'll see what im trying to say. The same you think for not wanting to tpu £100m into the club will be the same reasons i give to you about the 'ambitions of the board this period nonsense that you spout' The ambition of the board really needs to be tested this summer, where the pool of talent is larger and the time of thorough incorporation is longer. Would you use your best most expensie fishing rob to go fishing in a pond? Or would you save it for the sea? If you cant see the merits in what im saying then im not sure what else to say.

I guess I'm just stupid but I don't understand what the "demtrimental effects of raising the already sky high expectations" are. I understand my sky high expectations which are currently "avoiding relegation" may be raised to "getting over 40 points" by the almost criminal act of buying players in January but I'm not sure how that is detrimental to the club. Please enlighten me further oh knowledgeable one. PS Are you Chris Mort? If "avoiding relegation" is your definition of sky high expectation, then does that mean that you are pretty happy with things so far? If not, then why? People dont seem to except that the past 4 years were part of our history, i seem to get the impression that people regard the past 4 years as something of a blip. I dont, i see it as the current state of our club, i get the impression that people see us as a team who should be challenging for European places, something which has actually been quite sporadic throught our recent history. It depends how you view the club at the moment alot of the fans seem to think we could be finishing in the top 6, especially after the signings we've made. The signings havent turned out too well at the moment and people are using the expectation that a top 6 finish was a possibility as a valid reason for lambasting the position that we find ourselves in. Sam looks to be on the verge and its purely down to the fact that people expect us to be in a better position than we are at the mo, but why? Becasue of the expectations that had arisen from the Keegan era, and more recently the SBR era, in fact its the expectations of the Keegan era which ended up getting SBR sacked. How can we sustain any level of success without any stability. I dont understand how people dont see how attempting to break into the top4 (our eventual goal) should be a slow process. Hope you have been "enlightened" oh ignorant one. Yes I think I get it. Allardyce shouldn't have been given any transfer funds in the Summer to attempt to improve on the squad which finished 7th under Souness and Roeder as this raised fans expectations to a dangerous level where people foolishly expected to see signs of results and/or performances where we at least look like we might reach those dizzying heights once again, which is of course really bad for the club. Buying any more players in January in an attempt to improve the team would take us up to critical levels of expectation which would be even worse for the club. As a club we should aim to hang around in the mid to lower table positions for a number of seasons until fans expectations have reached a safe level so that hopefully we can be content with mid to lower table finishes each year, just being happy to stay in the league. This will reduce the pressure on the manager and board which as history has shown is the route to success. Of course, should we at some point in the future finish in a UEFA cup place as is the privilege of clubs which keep their managers for long enough, then we'll have to make sure we drop out of the competition as early as possible and sell off a few of our better players to avoid expectations rising to dangerous levels once again. Is that right? I only want to have the best interests of the club at heart. f*** it, if we are looking to prove our ambition, then give Allardyce £100m, i think its fair to say he should be challenging for CL no probs with £100m this period. Not like we cant afford it. What do you think would be the affect on the club if Allardyce was given that much money. What do you think the expectations would be? Do you think we'd achieve those expectations. Thats all im trying to say. Im not saying we shouldnt spend, but im saying the Jan period shouldnt be used to prove our ambitions. p.s all this has started with my "too stupid" line which i apologized for, the line you quoted has been taken completely out of context but hell, ill still debate it.

Sam allardyce wont get sacked before the end of the season, i bet what little forum credibiltyi have on that. (Providing we dont look like getting relegated) All this talk of a new manager is a little lot premature in my opinion. Is sam actually failing to deliver on our expectations for this season positioning wise? Its all fair and well saying we have big games to come so are inevitably will be doing crap, but the points on the table are THE most important stat.

It's actually both and he has neither. Get rid. I disagree with that, there is so little time on a football field to think about what you're doing there cant be any thought processes with the ball at your feets, its all sensory feedback.

His strike record for Inter was roughly 1 in 3 which is what it is with us. That's is what we paid for and what we got. If you want a 1 in 2 striker you have to put up the cash. True! I rememeber fergie saying something about the need for Rooney to spread his goals out over a good number of games, because his scoring record was similar to Martins. Id rather have Martins have 15 scoring games a season with 15 goals, than 15 goals in 8 scoring games over the season. If that makes sense.

mackems.gif I think this thread should now be closed and made a sticky after that classic piece of tripe above. You have such definite convictions on other peoples posts yet fail to explain why. Care to humour me?

Maritns biggest problem is his footballing intelligence, when he finds himself with a bit of time, he usually ends up taking that second too long, footballing intellignece in instictive and not conscious, if its not right now, it never will be. However, i think that if he was converted to an in the box striker he may be more effective, lesss time to react and have to think etc....