fredbob

I guess I'm just stupid but I don't understand what the "demtrimental effects of raising the already sky high expectations" are. I understand my sky high expectations which are currently "avoiding relegation" may be raised to "getting over 40 points" by the almost criminal act of buying players in January but I'm not sure how that is detrimental to the club. Please enlighten me further oh knowledgeable one. PS Are you Chris Mort? If "avoiding relegation" is your definition of sky high expectation, then does that mean that you are pretty happy with things so far? If not, then why? People dont seem to except that the past 4 years were part of our history, i seem to get the impression that people regard the past 4 years as something of a blip. I dont, i see it as the current state of our club, i get the impression that people see us as a team who should be challenging for European places, something which has actually been quite sporadic throught our recent history. It depends how you view the club at the moment alot of the fans seem to think we could be finishing in the top 6, especially after the signings we've made. The signings havent turned out too well at the moment and people are using the expectation that a top 6 finish was a possibility as a valid reason for lambasting the position that we find ourselves in. Sam looks to be on the verge and its purely down to the fact that people expect us to be in a better position than we are at the mo, but why? Becasue of the expectations that had arisen from the Keegan era, and more recently the SBR era, in fact its the expectations of the Keegan era which ended up getting SBR sacked. How can we sustain any level of success without any stability. I dont understand how people dont see how attempting to break into the top4 (our eventual goal) should be a slow process. Hope you have been "enlightened" oh ignorant one.

Whats your problem? What Leazes is saying is perfectly acceptable in its manner and absolutley spot on. Those of you who think our current playing staff are good enough are blinkered. They are not good enough, we do not have an Arteta, an Elano, a Muntari etc nor anyone near good enough for the top 4. We need to invest in better players. Simple as. My problem is that, theres an agenda to criticize EVERY single thing that comes out of Morts mouth before anything definitive is done. Its so bloody tedious to hear an onslaught so unrelenting about one thing. Its all "ive heard it all before in the past from the s*** directors so it must be the same today" Its flawed logic and a completely flawed argument after 6 months of ownership. As far as im concerned its a clean slate with the new board and am sitting patiently to see what they have for us, becasue its ridiculous to think that the oweners will have anything but the success of the club on there mind. I dont understand the view that we need to be aiming for the top 4 straight away, think about it man, its gonna be alot more expensive and difficult to break the top 4 straight away than it would be to break it in the long term. If you and anyone else are too stupid to see the demtrimental effects of raising the already sky high expectations of this club then you cant truly say you have the best interests of the club at heart. Im actually asking valid questions as well. Why do other clubs not like using the January trasfer period? Anyone who thinks that a couple of signings would sort us out and get us flying up the list are slightly deluded as well. It's massively tedious in the extreme to hear people like you harping on about your own agenda, and twisting things to make out that the last board brought to an end decades of glorious achievements, especially when it is pointed out clearly to you, via factual information, that the truth is the exact opposite. As for the January window, money talks. If YOU have low ambitions for the club and think we can't punch our weight above clubs such as Blackburn for instance, then that is YOUR problem. The irony that the last board have spent their time running the club and doing that to the best of their ability, is completely lost on you, so much so it leaves me thinking you don't have too much ambition for the club, or are seriously deluded if you think you can be successful without doing this. Errr what? Where have i said that on here? Lol, its laughable that you say that because if anyhting im well aware of the fact that the old board actually entriely responsible the "decade of glourious achievement" I acknowledge that fact quite often in fact. You're only intention in this thread is to attack everything Mort has said, and i dont understand why, hence my original post. How can you actually form these definitive opinions on a board that has only been in charge for 6 months? What specifically adds anymore wieght to your arguments about the first 6 months of there ownership than anyone else with differeing opinion? See what you wanna see.

it really doesn't say much for you, that you think someone who doesn't agree with you - even when all I do is put up factual information - that you keep saying this. So much so, the only thing I can reply with is : mackems.gif I disagree with your constant attacking of the new board, your criticism reek of bitterness, which leads me to believe that you have a big link with the old board. True? Your constant drivel of "ambition that the new board lacks" is hardly fatual, that is all that i am attacking. That is all

The proble we have now though is that Zog and Duff looked immense in the first half, looked like a pariing that could really do some damage. At times, it looked as though we were playing with 2 left wingers. Wont get the same threat with Enrique. And will Duff be as effective on the right?

Whats your problem? What Leazes is saying is perfectly acceptable in its manner and absolutley spot on. Those of you who think our current playing staff are good enough are blinkered. They are not good enough, we do not have an Arteta, an Elano, a Muntari etc nor anyone near good enough for the top 4. We need to invest in better players. Simple as. My problem is that, theres an agenda to criticize EVERY single thing that comes out of Morts mouth before anything definitive is done. Its so bloody tedious to hear an onslaught so unrelenting about one thing. Its all "ive heard it all before in the past from the shit directors so it must be the same today" Its flawed logic and a completely flawed argument after 6 months of ownership. As far as im concerned its a clean slate with the new board and am sitting patiently to see what they have for us, becasue its ridiculous to think that the oweners will have anything but the success of the club on there mind. I dont understand the view that we need to be aiming for the top 4 straight away, think about it man, its gonna be alot more expensive and difficult to break the top 4 straight away than it would be to break it in the long term. If you and anyone else are too stupid to see the demtrimental effects of raising the already sky high expectations of this club then you cant truly say you have the best interests of the club at heart. Im actually asking valid questions as well. Why do other clubs not like using the January trasfer period? Anyone who thinks that a couple of signings would sort us out and get us flying up the list are slightly deluded as well.

Martins single biggest problem is he just just 2 seconds too slow up top. It the cause of most of his problems, when he has time he's a very frustrating player.

seriously ne5, are you freddy sheperd? I imagine its hard for you to hold a decent conversation with anyone with your tongue firmly jammed in Sheperds arse. Some of the stuff you say is so stupid. Can you tell me why no club likes spending in the January period? Is it because they have no ambition? Why is spending this January the only test of ambition according to you?

Im personally praying Sam sees the good in the first 40 minutes and doesnt let the first lucky goal change his opinion on what he saw, we thoroughly outplayed them in this time. A bit of luck, decent finishing and a more active main striker would make things all good.

Its a good idea, it gives your wingers more freedom to attack becasue it provides good defensive cover. I'd actually like to see Sam stick with the formation. We werent shit leading upto the goal. We played really well upto then in my opinion. All changed after the lucky goal. Those forst 40 minutes were the best ive seen from the team all season.

I thought that the first 40 mintues were the best we played all season. Really liked the formation. with 2 defensive midfielders, thought it helped contain Man city well, created a fair first oppurtunities the first half, looed very good in my opinion with poor finishing. Heads dropped after the first goal and we didnt recover. Ill admit i switched off after the first goal, was there any dramatic changes after certain subs. I really want Sam to stick with 2 defensive midfielders. I think its a great formation. Id like Butt to be replaced with a better DM, he gives the ball away too much, passing isnt up to scratch, and a better right winger, i think today was the first time that one of our wingers got behind the full back. Anyone got a decent description of where things changed dramatically and for what reason?

Agreed Was it two footed? They usually clamp down on these things. no went in with his legg, allmost got his balls tho, lol No, Faye was on the floor and Elano steamed into him even the ball had born clear of Faye.

Elano is pure class, his passing as vision is truly world class.

Dare i say it, we're playing with a bit of flair. Martins is getting into nice positions but is being pretty wasteful, just thinks that second too slow. Zog and Duff are looking great to be fair.

Still no real movement, noone seems keen to take the ball off another player.

This season, with so much, instability, i dont think thie problem lies with weaknesses within the team (although there obviously are some), i think the problem lies with the way the team is actually playing. The personnel we have is alot better than our position suggests. I think SA and Mort realisie this and arent looking to invest too heavily as adding more players will undoubltedly rock an already unsteady ship. Im happy to have a reasonably quiet transfer period providing money is invested in the summer.

Given Beye Cacapa/Roz Taylor Enrique Butt/Faye --- Geremi Duff ------------------------ Zog Owen Martins Is what id love to see, 442/424 but I think we'll see Given Beye Cacapa Faye Zog Duff Butt Emre Milner Viduka Owen

Is this a serious question or are you playing dumb again? My question is a serious one, by the way. Answer the question by all means. Nah. Playing dumb is daft and I really can't be bothered with the toontastic type of stuff you like so much. Theres nothing wrong at all with using hindsight to assess whether a decision was a success or not. Not sure if HTL is misinterpretting your post but i think he might mean that you cant use hindsight to assess whether a decision was right or wrong.

What happened to Routledge? Might be worth a punt for about £1 million. Have him and we can throw in Tainio if you want? Seriously though, what is the deal with Routledge? He's no worse than Lennon but he doesn't even get a look in. Did he fall out with the club? Giles Barnes has come back and looked really good so far, reminds me of Dyer but more consistent. Wanted him a long time ago, think it'd be worth testing there resolve considering they know they're down. Cant see too many in the league competeing with us either.

I think we need better protection of the defense, so a static defensive midfielder like Makalele would be nice. A pacy right midfielder would be nice, someone whos actually gonna try and get behind the full back. Im actually quite happy with our forwards. No dea why people keep mentioning Arshavin, how many ruski football fans do we have??

Nor the credit for anything ? Constant negative vibes. We didn't qualify for europe more than anyone else bar 4 clubs through having a s*** board and chairman that didnt' know what they were doing. Nor expand the stadium to 52000, nor show ambition to bring top players to finance the signing of top players to the club, nor the signing of Woodgate 6 months prior to the summer of 2003 but is slated for spending nothing in the summer instead and millions to qualify in the first place .... The list is as long as your arm. I've just pointed out facts. If the FACT that the club was light years more healthy than it was in 1992 doesn't suit people's "opinions" then thats just too bad. Only the real naive people who dont understand the situation or too ignorant to understand the situation say the board was s***, most of us, acknowledge the achievements fo the board, i cant see anywhere where anyone has said "the board was s***". Can you? When we talk about the negatives of the board, coincidently or not, all the negatives occured whilst Sheperd was in charge. I don think there are many posts which dispute anything pre SBR. It is what occured during Sir Bobbys spell and after that has caused much tension. Im not even sure what you are arguing anymore, i cant help but get the feeling, that your responses are now defensive of sheperd rather than defense of the old board. Answer this, If team 'A' qualifies for Europe 7 times in 10 seasons, and If team 'B' finishes in the top10, 4 times in 10 seasons. which team is more successful? Answer this and you will finally understand why the 'most Euro qualifications stat' is such a shitty stat which does nothing but make you look desperate. The rules of the game, is that you have to answer either A or B. Nothing more or less. No changing the subject or avoiding the question. Just answer the question.

You would have said the same about the SJP expansion 5 years ago And? 5 years ago no one could have predicted that we would be in the freefall that we were at the end of Fred's time. That's stunning, don't you think? 10 years ago I don't think many predicted that we'd be in financial trouble and our future would be looking seemingly bleak. That's the main thing I've been trying to say so far, though god knows I've tried my best to sound as confusing as possible. ??? And in 5 years time Wenger may have let and Arsenal may be struggling to get 8th place in the Premier league. You've said exactly what I was getting at, the Emirates looks sound now, SJP look sound 5 years ago Aye, the MANAGER makes a massive difference, which is where we went wrong with the appointment of Souness, obviously. .....or even the sacking of SBR? didn't hear too many voices against it at the time. Never mind, after today, do you hope the club continue carrying on putting the books first, standby for more real mediocrity or worse. I thought when the Halls and Shepherd left, all this mediocrity would come to an end. I reckon we need a few of these quality trophy players to get up the league a bit, don't you I've always been unhappy with the sacking of SBR. I dont know what agenda you have me trying to push but you have the wrong man, i wasnt for Shepard during his reign as chairmen, although i supported most of his decisions. I am not one of these people who think the new board are magically sorting out all the problems, but i am extremely encouraged by what has already occured with the new board, but i feel obliged to respond to some absolute stupendous critism of the new board which is borderline idiotic. considering that we are 5 months into their ownership. Whehther you turn out to be correct or wrong is irrelevant to me but to sit there and criticise something so quickly with absolutley NOTHING solid to back it up except for some loose misinterpretation is mind boggling to me. Idiotic. A simple FACT, dear boy, is that Sir Bobby Robson's team was booed for only finishing 5th, this epitomised the feeling of a lot of fans at that time. I would presume those who booed the team that day were the same people - like booboo - who laugh at the team when they aren't performing well. I'm not saying that you were one of those, because I don't know, but what I do know is if you ignore this comment, you are ignoring history. So don't start laying the blame at the feet of the board, they acted in what was thought was the decision to be made at the time. Most fans backed it - even those who didn't shamefully boo - the only problem was the replacement. What a shame we didn't find the next Arsene Wenger though during the last decade eh, how incompetent can you get bloody hell man, the stuff you'll come out with to absolve them of any blame, unbelievable "they acted on what they thought was the decision to be made at the time". I fail to see how this is making excuses, unless you are going to tell us that the majority of fans didn't agree that it was time for a change ? well, first of all, 'dont go laying the blame at the feet of the board', referencing the blame they're getting for a decision THEY made, 100% sums you up secondly, 'they acted on what they thought was the decision to be made at the time', is vague, weak, and ducks BLAME, why are they acting on what other people think? dont they have the courage of their convictions? did they EVER do anything wrong mate apart from appointing souness, or are you just gonna blame the fans, players and managers? and lastly, bobby should have gone at the end of the season previous, waiting and doing it then was STUPID, sorry like, on this occasion FREDDY, WAS STUPID I'm sure if they had used hindsight, like you, they wouldn't have done it either. Only someone really stupid won't understand this. Do you also think Gullit should have been kept on until the end of the season ? Your views have no credibility if they aren't consistent, I don't suppose you will understand this different situation, different context, different views, yeah he should've been sacked, but had freddy claimed it was his last season pre season and started going over his head to sell players i would say he should've gone BEFORE he decided that sort of thing was a good idea you can have different opinions on when is the right or wrong time to sack one manager as opposed to the next, only a really stupid person wouldnt understand context, or someone with an a***** Firstly, it is isn't a different situation or a different context at all. It's about sacking your manager when you feel that it is time for a change/lost the plot/not going to go any further. The only problem with sacking Robson was the replacement. Sacking Gullit wasn't a problem - at the SAME time of the season - because the replacement was a good one. There is nothing difficult about this. It's only difficult if you are looking for a stick to beat someone with. I'm also very pleased for you that you another one of these people who think the major shareholders of a multi million pound company allow someone else to make the major managerial decisions all on their own. Do you think Ashley will allow Mort to run the club all on his own ? What an absolutely stupid notion, I don't believe the amount of times myself and others ie ChezGiven and UV [i think] have had to point this out. By the way, people/fan pressure DOES count in football in case you don't realise. But the point of my comment is to say that a lof of fans and possibly even the majority of the clubs supporters, agreed with the decision to sack Bobby Robson, so don't bother using hindsight to say it was wrong now, or to change history and say it wasn't the case. Dont you think that the chairman, as the bridge between the fans and the board, is accountable for the boards decision. Isnt that part and parcel of the job. I dont see anyone specifying that Sheperd was directly responsible for the appointment of Souness. But rather using Sheperds name in context of the him being representativeof the boards views. Ive said all this before, but i guess you see what you want to see. eerrr... [bit in bold] ....... I'm not seeing anything other than basic common sense BTW Again, read it again, no one is arguing that Fred Sheperd made the decision. No one has tried to argue that Sheperd made the decision. People are using his name because he is accountable to the fans for the boards decision. Simple as that. Whether he argued till he was blue against the appointmnet, he will always be accoutable for the decision because that is his job. See what you want to see.

You would have said the same about the SJP expansion 5 years ago And? 5 years ago no one could have predicted that we would be in the freefall that we were at the end of Fred's time. That's stunning, don't you think? 10 years ago I don't think many predicted that we'd be in financial trouble and our future would be looking seemingly bleak. That's the main thing I've been trying to say so far, though god knows I've tried my best to sound as confusing as possible. ??? And in 5 years time Wenger may have let and Arsenal may be struggling to get 8th place in the Premier league. You've said exactly what I was getting at, the Emirates looks sound now, SJP look sound 5 years ago Aye, the MANAGER makes a massive difference, which is where we went wrong with the appointment of Souness, obviously. .....or even the sacking of SBR? didn't hear too many voices against it at the time. Never mind, after today, do you hope the club continue carrying on putting the books first, standby for more real mediocrity or worse. I thought when the Halls and Shepherd left, all this mediocrity would come to an end. I reckon we need a few of these quality trophy players to get up the league a bit, don't you I've always been unhappy with the sacking of SBR. I dont know what agenda you have me trying to push but you have the wrong man, i wasnt for Shepard during his reign as chairmen, although i supported most of his decisions. I am not one of these people who think the new board are magically sorting out all the problems, but i am extremely encouraged by what has already occured with the new board, but i feel obliged to respond to some absolute stupendous critism of the new board which is borderline idiotic. considering that we are 5 months into their ownership. Whehther you turn out to be correct or wrong is irrelevant to me but to sit there and criticise something so quickly with absolutley NOTHING solid to back it up except for some loose misinterpretation is mind boggling to me. Idiotic. A simple FACT, dear boy, is that Sir Bobby Robson's team was booed for only finishing 5th, this epitomised the feeling of a lot of fans at that time. I would presume those who booed the team that day were the same people - like booboo - who laugh at the team when they aren't performing well. I'm not saying that you were one of those, because I don't know, but what I do know is if you ignore this comment, you are ignoring history. So don't start laying the blame at the feet of the board, they acted in what was thought was the decision to be made at the time. Most fans backed it - even those who didn't shamefully boo - the only problem was the replacement. What a shame we didn't find the next Arsene Wenger though during the last decade eh, how incompetent can you get bloody hell man, the stuff you'll come out with to absolve them of any blame, unbelievable "they acted on what they thought was the decision to be made at the time". I fail to see how this is making excuses, unless you are going to tell us that the majority of fans didn't agree that it was time for a change ? well, first of all, 'dont go laying the blame at the feet of the board', referencing the blame they're getting for a decision THEY made, 100% sums you up secondly, 'they acted on what they thought was the decision to be made at the time', is vague, weak, and ducks BLAME, why are they acting on what other people think? dont they have the courage of their convictions? did they EVER do anything wrong mate apart from appointing souness, or are you just gonna blame the fans, players and managers? and lastly, bobby should have gone at the end of the season previous, waiting and doing it then was STUPID, sorry like, on this occasion FREDDY, WAS STUPID I'm sure if they had used hindsight, like you, they wouldn't have done it either. Only someone really stupid won't understand this. Do you also think Gullit should have been kept on until the end of the season ? Your views have no credibility if they aren't consistent, I don't suppose you will understand this different situation, different context, different views, yeah he should've been sacked, but had freddy claimed it was his last season pre season and started going over his head to sell players i would say he should've gone BEFORE he decided that sort of thing was a good idea you can have different opinions on when is the right or wrong time to sack one manager as opposed to the next, only a really stupid person wouldnt understand context, or someone with an a***** Firstly, it is isn't a different situation or a different context at all. It's about sacking your manager when you feel that it is time for a change/lost the plot/not going to go any further. The only problem with sacking Robson was the replacement. Sacking Gullit wasn't a problem - at the SAME time of the season - because the replacement was a good one. There is nothing difficult about this. It's only difficult if you are looking for a stick to beat someone with. I'm also very pleased for you that you another one of these people who think the major shareholders of a multi million pound company allow someone else to make the major managerial decisions all on their own. Do you think Ashley will allow Mort to run the club all on his own ? What an absolutely stupid notion, I don't believe the amount of times myself and others ie ChezGiven and UV [i think] have had to point this out. By the way, people/fan pressure DOES count in football in case you don't realise. But the point of my comment is to say that a lof of fans and possibly even the majority of the clubs supporters, agreed with the decision to sack Bobby Robson, so don't bother using hindsight to say it was wrong now, or to change history and say it wasn't the case. Dont you think that the chairman, as the bridge between the fans and the board, is accountable for the boards decision. Isnt that part and parcel of the job. I dont see anyone specifying that Sheperd was directly responsible for the appointment of Souness. But rather using Sheperds name in context of the him being representativeof the boards views. Ive said all this before, but i guess you see what you want to see.

During the period that they have all had stable managers, yes. Theres no point tracing back throught their respective histoy's because that doesnt illustrate the specifics of my point. Of course, nufc have been more successful over a course of the premiership, but all our notbale success has occured with long term stable managers.

No-one thinking about the implications of sacking a manager after 6 months? Financial reasons arent even close to being the main issue with sacking SA. Who wants to come to such an underachieving club with instant success as a sminimum. What a load of bollocks. If no one is gonna look at the reality of the situation we are in, nufc will be doomed as a club forever. I honestly feel that way. We're looking to appoint a world class manager, but we will automatically be draining the pool of potential talent by sacking the previous manager after 6 months. I cant help but see a similarity between us and Real Madrid, just minus the success. The first guaratue that any manager will want is longetivity, and so far nufc historically have failed to deliver. How can we progress if we constantly fal at the first hurdle.

To be honest i think it could be us as well. I would explain the constant selcetion of players like Smith and Barton.....whi so far have grafted but havent brought any real quality.