fredbob

I guess I'm just stupid but I don't understand what the "demtrimental effects of raising the already sky high expectations" are. I understand my sky high expectations which are currently "avoiding relegation" may be raised to "getting over 40 points" by the almost criminal act of buying players in January but I'm not sure how that is detrimental to the club. Please enlighten me further oh knowledgeable one. PS Are you Chris Mort? If "avoiding relegation" is your definition of sky high expectation, then does that mean that you are pretty happy with things so far? If not, then why? People dont seem to except that the past 4 years were part of our history, i seem to get the impression that people regard the past 4 years as something of a blip. I dont, i see it as the current state of our club, i get the impression that people see us as a team who should be challenging for European places, something which has actually been quite sporadic throught our recent history. It depends how you view the club at the moment alot of the fans seem to think we could be finishing in the top 6, especially after the signings we've made. The signings havent turned out too well at the moment and people are using the expectation that a top 6 finish was a possibility as a valid reason for lambasting the position that we find ourselves in. Sam looks to be on the verge and its purely down to the fact that people expect us to be in a better position than we are at the mo, but why? Becasue of the expectations that had arisen from the Keegan era, and more recently the SBR era, in fact its the expectations of the Keegan era which ended up getting SBR sacked. How can we sustain any level of success without any stability. I dont understand how people dont see how attempting to break into the top4 (our eventual goal) should be a slow process. Hope you have been "enlightened" oh ignorant one. Yes I think I get it. Allardyce shouldn't have been given any transfer funds in the Summer to attempt to improve on the squad which finished 7th under Souness and Roeder as this raised fans expectations to a dangerous level where people foolishly expected to see signs of results and/or performances where we at least look like we might reach those dizzying heights once again, which is of course really bad for the club. Buying any more players in January in an attempt to improve the team would take us up to critical levels of expectation which would be even worse for the club. As a club we should aim to hang around in the mid to lower table positions for a number of seasons until fans expectations have reached a safe level so that hopefully we can be content with mid to lower table finishes each year, just being happy to stay in the league. This will reduce the pressure on the manager and board which as history has shown is the route to success. Of course, should we at some point in the future finish in a UEFA cup place as is the privilege of clubs which keep their managers for long enough, then we'll have to make sure we drop out of the competition as early as possible and sell off a few of our better players to avoid expectations rising to dangerous levels once again. Is that right? I only want to have the best interests of the club at heart. Yes, that's exactly it summed up very nicely. Yep, thats UV's views summed up nicely, but not mine.

mackems.gif I think this thread should now be closed and made a sticky after that classic piece of tripe above. were i to play devils advocate and ask what gave it its tripe like qualities, what would your response be? My response would be that if you can't see the obvious for yourself it isn't worth my time explaining. I imagine by now you've read posts from others of the same belief as myself. Ask one of them, they may have more patience with your type than I have. Cheers Cop out. Cheers

I don't think Man U would be better off with another £80m to spend minus Ronaldo. Where would they put that money? They'd need a new RW, but that's about it really, except perhaps for back-up players. So, who'd they spend that cash on to make them a better team? Messi? Couldn't agree more, why fix something that isn't broken. But its not a case of "why fix something that isn't broken" - i'm sure Man U don't wonna sell him, and Fergie doesn't want the £80m, BUT if Ronaldo decides he's away, they'll have no option but to fix the fucker. Which you claim is possible, how can Manchester United replace Cristiano Ronaldo with a replacement who is capable of scoring/assisting the amount of goals he does? As Towelie said, even with 60m you couldn't do that unless you bought someone of similar ability like Messi for e.g What are the chance of that happening? Your comment was about not fixing it if it aint broken. If Ronaldo wants to leave, it will have to be fixed. Do you reckon Manure couldnt win the league without him? Yep he's a fuckin awesome player, and almost impossible to replace but other clubs have lost great players, spent the money wisely and still been equally as successful. You could have similar arguments for Henry at Arsenal, Owen at Liverpool or Van Nistelrooy at Man U. Totally wrong, the three players you just mentioned left their clubs after they'd had their best years at the club, Ronaldo is playing the best football of his career at the moment. Gonna have to agree to disagree, particularly on your last point. So he isn't playing the best football of his career? Just after winning the player and players player of the year awards, also been named the 3rd best player in the world, when would you say he was playing his best football then? Probably not worth £80m, yet but would definitely breakthe world record for transfer fee. £60-65m wouldnt be exactly unrealistic, would pay for himself with shirt sales and his contribution on the pitch would be priceless, He's a winger who scroing more than most strikers in the best league in the world for fucks sake.

Well in all fairness i wasnt arguing the time that a player should be signed my posts were in respone to someone saying the board need to prove there ambition this January period. Something which i disagreed with. Got dragged about the place though.....again.

I guess I'm just stupid but I don't understand what the "demtrimental effects of raising the already sky high expectations" are. I understand my sky high expectations which are currently "avoiding relegation" may be raised to "getting over 40 points" by the almost criminal act of buying players in January but I'm not sure how that is detrimental to the club. Please enlighten me further oh knowledgeable one. PS Are you Chris Mort? If "avoiding relegation" is your definition of sky high expectation, then does that mean that you are pretty happy with things so far? If not, then why? People dont seem to except that the past 4 years were part of our history, i seem to get the impression that people regard the past 4 years as something of a blip. I dont, i see it as the current state of our club, i get the impression that people see us as a team who should be challenging for European places, something which has actually been quite sporadic throught our recent history. It depends how you view the club at the moment alot of the fans seem to think we could be finishing in the top 6, especially after the signings we've made. The signings havent turned out too well at the moment and people are using the expectation that a top 6 finish was a possibility as a valid reason for lambasting the position that we find ourselves in. Sam looks to be on the verge and its purely down to the fact that people expect us to be in a better position than we are at the mo, but why? Becasue of the expectations that had arisen from the Keegan era, and more recently the SBR era, in fact its the expectations of the Keegan era which ended up getting SBR sacked. How can we sustain any level of success without any stability. I dont understand how people dont see how attempting to break into the top4 (our eventual goal) should be a slow process. Hope you have been "enlightened" oh ignorant one. Yes I think I get it. Allardyce shouldn't have been given any transfer funds in the Summer to attempt to improve on the squad which finished 7th under Souness and Roeder as this raised fans expectations to a dangerous level where people foolishly expected to see signs of results and/or performances where we at least look like we might reach those dizzying heights once again, which is of course really bad for the club. Buying any more players in January in an attempt to improve the team would take us up to critical levels of expectation which would be even worse for the club. As a club we should aim to hang around in the mid to lower table positions for a number of seasons until fans expectations have reached a safe level so that hopefully we can be content with mid to lower table finishes each year, just being happy to stay in the league. This will reduce the pressure on the manager and board which as history has shown is the route to success. Of course, should we at some point in the future finish in a UEFA cup place as is the privilege of clubs which keep their managers for long enough, then we'll have to make sure we drop out of the competition as early as possible and sell off a few of our better players to avoid expectations rising to dangerous levels once again. Is that right? I only want to have the best interests of the club at heart. this is getting rather excitingly close to how the club was run for decades pre-1992 Do you think it would be a good idea to pump £100m this jan period? If not, then you'll see what im trying to say. The same you think for not wanting to tpu £100m into the club will be the same reasons i give to you about the 'ambitions of the board this period nonsense that you spout' The ambition of the board really needs to be tested this summer, where the pool of talent is larger and the time of thorough incorporation is longer. Would you use your best most expensie fishing rob to go fishing in a pond? Or would you save it for the sea? If you cant see the merits in what im saying then im not sure what else to say.

I guess I'm just stupid but I don't understand what the "demtrimental effects of raising the already sky high expectations" are. I understand my sky high expectations which are currently "avoiding relegation" may be raised to "getting over 40 points" by the almost criminal act of buying players in January but I'm not sure how that is detrimental to the club. Please enlighten me further oh knowledgeable one. PS Are you Chris Mort? If "avoiding relegation" is your definition of sky high expectation, then does that mean that you are pretty happy with things so far? If not, then why? People dont seem to except that the past 4 years were part of our history, i seem to get the impression that people regard the past 4 years as something of a blip. I dont, i see it as the current state of our club, i get the impression that people see us as a team who should be challenging for European places, something which has actually been quite sporadic throught our recent history. It depends how you view the club at the moment alot of the fans seem to think we could be finishing in the top 6, especially after the signings we've made. The signings havent turned out too well at the moment and people are using the expectation that a top 6 finish was a possibility as a valid reason for lambasting the position that we find ourselves in. Sam looks to be on the verge and its purely down to the fact that people expect us to be in a better position than we are at the mo, but why? Becasue of the expectations that had arisen from the Keegan era, and more recently the SBR era, in fact its the expectations of the Keegan era which ended up getting SBR sacked. How can we sustain any level of success without any stability. I dont understand how people dont see how attempting to break into the top4 (our eventual goal) should be a slow process. Hope you have been "enlightened" oh ignorant one. Yes I think I get it. Allardyce shouldn't have been given any transfer funds in the Summer to attempt to improve on the squad which finished 7th under Souness and Roeder as this raised fans expectations to a dangerous level where people foolishly expected to see signs of results and/or performances where we at least look like we might reach those dizzying heights once again, which is of course really bad for the club. Buying any more players in January in an attempt to improve the team would take us up to critical levels of expectation which would be even worse for the club. As a club we should aim to hang around in the mid to lower table positions for a number of seasons until fans expectations have reached a safe level so that hopefully we can be content with mid to lower table finishes each year, just being happy to stay in the league. This will reduce the pressure on the manager and board which as history has shown is the route to success. Of course, should we at some point in the future finish in a UEFA cup place as is the privilege of clubs which keep their managers for long enough, then we'll have to make sure we drop out of the competition as early as possible and sell off a few of our better players to avoid expectations rising to dangerous levels once again. Is that right? I only want to have the best interests of the club at heart. f*** it, if we are looking to prove our ambition, then give Allardyce £100m, i think its fair to say he should be challenging for CL no probs with £100m this period. Not like we cant afford it. What do you think would be the affect on the club if Allardyce was given that much money. What do you think the expectations would be? Do you think we'd achieve those expectations. Thats all im trying to say. Im not saying we shouldnt spend, but im saying the Jan period shouldnt be used to prove our ambitions. p.s all this has started with my "too stupid" line which i apologized for, the line you quoted has been taken completely out of context but hell, ill still debate it.

Sam allardyce wont get sacked before the end of the season, i bet what little forum credibiltyi have on that. (Providing we dont look like getting relegated) All this talk of a new manager is a little lot premature in my opinion. Is sam actually failing to deliver on our expectations for this season positioning wise? Its all fair and well saying we have big games to come so are inevitably will be doing crap, but the points on the table are THE most important stat.

It's actually both and he has neither. Get rid. I disagree with that, there is so little time on a football field to think about what you're doing there cant be any thought processes with the ball at your feets, its all sensory feedback.

His strike record for Inter was roughly 1 in 3 which is what it is with us. That's is what we paid for and what we got. If you want a 1 in 2 striker you have to put up the cash. True! I rememeber fergie saying something about the need for Rooney to spread his goals out over a good number of games, because his scoring record was similar to Martins. Id rather have Martins have 15 scoring games a season with 15 goals, than 15 goals in 8 scoring games over the season. If that makes sense.

mackems.gif I think this thread should now be closed and made a sticky after that classic piece of tripe above. You have such definite convictions on other peoples posts yet fail to explain why. Care to humour me?

Maritns biggest problem is his footballing intelligence, when he finds himself with a bit of time, he usually ends up taking that second too long, footballing intellignece in instictive and not conscious, if its not right now, it never will be. However, i think that if he was converted to an in the box striker he may be more effective, lesss time to react and have to think etc....

I guess I'm just stupid but I don't understand what the "demtrimental effects of raising the already sky high expectations" are. I understand my sky high expectations which are currently "avoiding relegation" may be raised to "getting over 40 points" by the almost criminal act of buying players in January but I'm not sure how that is detrimental to the club. Please enlighten me further oh knowledgeable one. PS Are you Chris Mort? If "avoiding relegation" is your definition of sky high expectation, then does that mean that you are pretty happy with things so far? If not, then why? People dont seem to except that the past 4 years were part of our history, i seem to get the impression that people regard the past 4 years as something of a blip. I dont, i see it as the current state of our club, i get the impression that people see us as a team who should be challenging for European places, something which has actually been quite sporadic throught our recent history. It depends how you view the club at the moment alot of the fans seem to think we could be finishing in the top 6, especially after the signings we've made. The signings havent turned out too well at the moment and people are using the expectation that a top 6 finish was a possibility as a valid reason for lambasting the position that we find ourselves in. Sam looks to be on the verge and its purely down to the fact that people expect us to be in a better position than we are at the mo, but why? Becasue of the expectations that had arisen from the Keegan era, and more recently the SBR era, in fact its the expectations of the Keegan era which ended up getting SBR sacked. How can we sustain any level of success without any stability. I dont understand how people dont see how attempting to break into the top4 (our eventual goal) should be a slow process. Hope you have been "enlightened" oh ignorant one.

Whats your problem? What Leazes is saying is perfectly acceptable in its manner and absolutley spot on. Those of you who think our current playing staff are good enough are blinkered. They are not good enough, we do not have an Arteta, an Elano, a Muntari etc nor anyone near good enough for the top 4. We need to invest in better players. Simple as. My problem is that, theres an agenda to criticize EVERY single thing that comes out of Morts mouth before anything definitive is done. Its so bloody tedious to hear an onslaught so unrelenting about one thing. Its all "ive heard it all before in the past from the s*** directors so it must be the same today" Its flawed logic and a completely flawed argument after 6 months of ownership. As far as im concerned its a clean slate with the new board and am sitting patiently to see what they have for us, becasue its ridiculous to think that the oweners will have anything but the success of the club on there mind. I dont understand the view that we need to be aiming for the top 4 straight away, think about it man, its gonna be alot more expensive and difficult to break the top 4 straight away than it would be to break it in the long term. If you and anyone else are too stupid to see the demtrimental effects of raising the already sky high expectations of this club then you cant truly say you have the best interests of the club at heart. Im actually asking valid questions as well. Why do other clubs not like using the January trasfer period? Anyone who thinks that a couple of signings would sort us out and get us flying up the list are slightly deluded as well. It's massively tedious in the extreme to hear people like you harping on about your own agenda, and twisting things to make out that the last board brought to an end decades of glorious achievements, especially when it is pointed out clearly to you, via factual information, that the truth is the exact opposite. As for the January window, money talks. If YOU have low ambitions for the club and think we can't punch our weight above clubs such as Blackburn for instance, then that is YOUR problem. The irony that the last board have spent their time running the club and doing that to the best of their ability, is completely lost on you, so much so it leaves me thinking you don't have too much ambition for the club, or are seriously deluded if you think you can be successful without doing this. Errr what? Where have i said that on here? Lol, its laughable that you say that because if anyhting im well aware of the fact that the old board actually entriely responsible the "decade of glourious achievement" I acknowledge that fact quite often in fact. You're only intention in this thread is to attack everything Mort has said, and i dont understand why, hence my original post. How can you actually form these definitive opinions on a board that has only been in charge for 6 months? What specifically adds anymore wieght to your arguments about the first 6 months of there ownership than anyone else with differeing opinion? See what you wanna see.

it really doesn't say much for you, that you think someone who doesn't agree with you - even when all I do is put up factual information - that you keep saying this. So much so, the only thing I can reply with is : mackems.gif I disagree with your constant attacking of the new board, your criticism reek of bitterness, which leads me to believe that you have a big link with the old board. True? Your constant drivel of "ambition that the new board lacks" is hardly fatual, that is all that i am attacking. That is all

The proble we have now though is that Zog and Duff looked immense in the first half, looked like a pariing that could really do some damage. At times, it looked as though we were playing with 2 left wingers. Wont get the same threat with Enrique. And will Duff be as effective on the right?

Whats your problem? What Leazes is saying is perfectly acceptable in its manner and absolutley spot on. Those of you who think our current playing staff are good enough are blinkered. They are not good enough, we do not have an Arteta, an Elano, a Muntari etc nor anyone near good enough for the top 4. We need to invest in better players. Simple as. My problem is that, theres an agenda to criticize EVERY single thing that comes out of Morts mouth before anything definitive is done. Its so bloody tedious to hear an onslaught so unrelenting about one thing. Its all "ive heard it all before in the past from the shit directors so it must be the same today" Its flawed logic and a completely flawed argument after 6 months of ownership. As far as im concerned its a clean slate with the new board and am sitting patiently to see what they have for us, becasue its ridiculous to think that the oweners will have anything but the success of the club on there mind. I dont understand the view that we need to be aiming for the top 4 straight away, think about it man, its gonna be alot more expensive and difficult to break the top 4 straight away than it would be to break it in the long term. If you and anyone else are too stupid to see the demtrimental effects of raising the already sky high expectations of this club then you cant truly say you have the best interests of the club at heart. Im actually asking valid questions as well. Why do other clubs not like using the January trasfer period? Anyone who thinks that a couple of signings would sort us out and get us flying up the list are slightly deluded as well.

Martins single biggest problem is he just just 2 seconds too slow up top. It the cause of most of his problems, when he has time he's a very frustrating player.

seriously ne5, are you freddy sheperd? I imagine its hard for you to hold a decent conversation with anyone with your tongue firmly jammed in Sheperds arse. Some of the stuff you say is so stupid. Can you tell me why no club likes spending in the January period? Is it because they have no ambition? Why is spending this January the only test of ambition according to you?

Im personally praying Sam sees the good in the first 40 minutes and doesnt let the first lucky goal change his opinion on what he saw, we thoroughly outplayed them in this time. A bit of luck, decent finishing and a more active main striker would make things all good.

Its a good idea, it gives your wingers more freedom to attack becasue it provides good defensive cover. I'd actually like to see Sam stick with the formation. We werent shit leading upto the goal. We played really well upto then in my opinion. All changed after the lucky goal. Those forst 40 minutes were the best ive seen from the team all season.

I thought that the first 40 mintues were the best we played all season. Really liked the formation. with 2 defensive midfielders, thought it helped contain Man city well, created a fair first oppurtunities the first half, looed very good in my opinion with poor finishing. Heads dropped after the first goal and we didnt recover. Ill admit i switched off after the first goal, was there any dramatic changes after certain subs. I really want Sam to stick with 2 defensive midfielders. I think its a great formation. Id like Butt to be replaced with a better DM, he gives the ball away too much, passing isnt up to scratch, and a better right winger, i think today was the first time that one of our wingers got behind the full back. Anyone got a decent description of where things changed dramatically and for what reason?

Agreed Was it two footed? They usually clamp down on these things. no went in with his legg, allmost got his balls tho, lol No, Faye was on the floor and Elano steamed into him even the ball had born clear of Faye.

Elano is pure class, his passing as vision is truly world class.

Dare i say it, we're playing with a bit of flair. Martins is getting into nice positions but is being pretty wasteful, just thinks that second too slow. Zog and Duff are looking great to be fair.