fredbob

If stablilty is having a healthy environemnt to achieve a considerable amount, then i want it. You need ambition to 'achieve a considerable amount' you don't just get that from stability. We do have ambition, but we didnt have the means to achieve it at the time that Allardyce took over, ie youth system, scouting, backroon staff etc. There didnt seem to be a plan but there was an apparent burdening debt which looked to afffect the future fo the club. Stability for me is having the platform to achieve something. We look like a different club off the field, but now we need to sort whats going on it. Whats the solution? Sack the manager, taking that stability away or stick with him see where he may lead us. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz So, we qualified for europe more than everybody but 4 teams, and everybody had a "plan" except us Crap stat, said it all before but you see what you wanna see. Not saying we didnt have a plan, but do you think we implented the plan to the end seeing as though you wanna go down that route? Boring. not for the first time, factual information destroys your entire "opinion" What do you mean "to the end". Are you saying we should have gave Dalglish, gullit, Souness or Roeder 5 years ? Facts which dont paint a true picture. Im saying that a plan has an point, do you think that the board implented there plan in the end? Are we reaping the benefits of this plan? Was Souness part of this long term plan?

What season are we expecting to see the fruits of this plan, any ideas? What if all these other pesky clubs have plans I have a plan that some class maverick, others say it is a timeless classic plan: HAVE BETTER PLAYERS THAN THE OPPOSTION & THEN WHEN YOU PLAY THEM SCORE MORE GOALS THAN THEM I dont know but lets sack him after 8 months and never find out rahter than giving him a reasonable amount of time to find out.

If stablilty is having a healthy environemnt to achieve a considerable amount, then i want it. You need ambition to 'achieve a considerable amount' you don't just get that from stability. We do have ambition, but we didnt have the means to achieve it at the time that Allardyce took over, ie youth system, scouting, backroon staff etc. There didnt seem to be a plan but there was an apparent burdening debt which looked to afffect the future fo the club. Stability for me is having the platform to achieve something. We look like a different club off the field, but now we need to sort whats going on it. Whats the solution? Sack the manager, taking that stability away or stick with him see where he may lead us. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz So, we qualified for europe more than everybody but 4 teams, and everybody had a "plan" except us Crap stat, said it all before but you see what you wanna see. Not saying we didnt have a plan, but do you think we implented the plan to the end seeing as though you wanna go down that route? Boring.

If stablilty is having a healthy environemnt to achieve a considerable amount, then i want it. You need ambition to 'achieve a considerable amount' you don't just get that from stability. We do have ambition, but we didnt have the means to achieve it at the time that Allardyce took over, ie youth system, scouting, backroon staff etc. There didnt seem to be a plan but there was an apparent burdening debt which looked to afffect the future fo the club. Stability for me is having the platform to achieve something. We look like a different club off the field, but now we need to sort whats going on it. Whats the solution? Sack the manager, taking that stability away or stick with him see where he may lead us.

If stablilty is having a healthy environemnt to achieve a considerable amount, then i want it.

Not true. If your expectation is Champions league football, your ambition is to win the league. If your expectation is UEFA cup football, your ambition is Champions league football. If your expectation is mid table, your ambition is UEFA cup football. If your expectation is lower table, your ambition is mid table. If your expectation is relegation, your ambition is lower table. In all cases your short term ambition is the next stage above your expectation, so lowering expectation inherently lowers (short term) ambition. What you are saying is that people's current expectation is too high and unrealistic for any manager. All others are saying is that expecting a visible improvement on the previous manager - who was considered bad enough to get rid of - is not an unreasonable expectation. You won't find many people who had Europe this season as a minimum expectation. This is the key to yours and the borthers grim entire argument it would appear, and is pretty short sighted and also not what im arguing, because after all, ambition is always in the long term. Its the ultimate goal. The use of "short term ambition" would suggest that you understad that point as well. Im actually saying that as long as the long term, ultimate goal stays the same (which it will do) and we are constantly looking to achieve our ultimate goal, then what harm does lowering the expecations and short term goals have on that ultimate ambtion being achieved? Does lowering the expectations give the management and board a more healthier environment to achieve success. I think so. As for the comment about improvement on Roeder, id have to agree to a certain degree, we havent seen a visible improvement on the field, but in defence of Allardyce and Mort we have seen what appears to be a massive upheaval in what happens off it. This links directly with my view that as long as we are "constantly looking to achieve our ultimate goal" then it would be ok in the long run to lower our expectations a bit in the short term. Dont get me wrong, i dont find what is occuring on the pitch acceptable, but i think with all the changes that have occured off the pitch, its already an improvement on what we saw last year. Maybe that should of been our expectations, to see some stability at the club.

Probably Keegans "LOVE IT, LOVE IT" moment. Threw away the league at that point, was never the same either.

So you think the major journo of the major newspaper in the city doesn't know how to contact the chairman of the football club, right ? The naivety of people on this board never ceases to amaze me Haha, point out where I said that please. You're clearly on the wind-up tonight. I never said he couldn't contact him. You just made that up in your head; it's called a straw-man argument. you're backtracking. The major journo of the local rag is an obvious way of getting contact info of the football club chairman. This is what I said. As usual, its fools who think that because Oliver is an idiot that he wouldn't have this info. Of course he would. He is bound to have it, the same as most or all of the players and officials at the club. You must be pretty stupid if you don't understand that the press aren't the most obvious and common method of getting information like this. More obvious than just ringing the club?? Hmm

Expectations are what you expect as a minimum achievement. Ambition is what you hope to achieve. If a club like ours which is massively underachieveing have there expectations (i.e minimum achievement) to be Europe then how many managers do you think will be able to live up to that expectation with the state of ourclub. If the minimum isnt achieved then the manager gets the chop, its a vicious circle. Its an impossible environment and is the primary reason why we find ourselves in the situation we are. Why would it be good for the club to set new managers near impossible tasks? By lowering the ambition, you are lowering what you hope the club achieves as the ultimate goal. That would be inexplicable. As I said previously, this is so excitingly getting closer to the mindset shown by the club during the glorious 30-odd years of winning trophies galore that we had before the takeover of the club by the Halls and Shepherd in 1992. Nope, that would be ambition you're on about there.

Wouldnt it be easier to contact the club? Who would you contact? Customer services? Do clubs do transfers through the local rag as well? You tellling me that nufc doesnt have a phone number or fax number? Some more discrete way of getting the chairmans number. Im just f****** around with you mate, no harm done

Sorry, but... mackems.gif how do you think football works Dave ? Do you think he looks in the phone book ? You genuinely belive that this person who works for "one of the biggest agents in the world" would contact the local journo in order to get the chairmans phone number? You genuinely belive that that would be the most discrete efficient way to aquire the number?

Wouldnt it be easier to contact the club? Who would you contact? Customer services? Do clubs do transfers through the local rag as well? You tellling me that nufc doesnt have a phone number or fax number? Some more discrete way of getting the chairmans number.

Expectations are what you expect as a minimum achievement. Ambition is what you hope to achieve. If a club like ours which is massively underachieveing have there expectations (i.e minimum achievement) to be Europe then how many managers do you think will be able to live up to that expectation with the state of ourclub. If the minimum isnt achieved then the manager gets the chop, its a vicious circle. Its an impossible environment and is the primary reason why we find ourselves in the situation we are. Why would it be good for the club to set new managers near impossible tasks? By lowering the ambition, you are lowering what you hope the club achieves as the ultimate goal. That would be inexplicable.

Wouldnt it be easier to contact the club?

at the right price Shirley 13m is the right price? There has to be a reason why Martins is being linked to all these big clubs. If there are better options out there then why arent these clubs out there looking at Martins going after them? This is all a load of bollocks. At the mo, Martins is our best striker, we arent a club that needs to sell, so why not look to make Martins the worst striker at the club. Keep Martins please.

You can say you're not interested inthe job without it being an absolute. Take Roeder for example. Shearer probably knows his own mind a bit better than Roeder, and sticks to his word. Traits that would make him a better manager than Roeder was. Like when he said he would retire?

You can say you're not interested inthe job without it being an absolute. Take Roeder for example.

Well you would say that you bought the spin I am sure NE5 & HTL will understand what I mean No, I wouldn't say that at all. I think you're being overly cynical, and that's something coming from me. I understand what is being said ref these players, but agree with parky too that it is spadework for lowering expectations. I understand your point but i dont quite see how lowering expectations are a bad thing for the club in the situation we are in now. Ambition and expectations are 2 different things, lowering ambition is a bad bad thing but is by no means affected by attempting to lower the expectations.

Pierre Van Hooijdonk, Robbie Fowler.

Correctomundo!

Has Klinsmann managed at club level before? No

I personally would want Klinsmann over Shearer. Like Parky says, he would have far more contacts which are vital in finding plyers. He's got a bit of experinece on a massive stage and been successsfull and has implemented a good style of football as well. Shearer is such an unknown quantity and i's rather not risk thenew found stability we have at the club on a complete unknown. Its begging for failure in my eyes. The thing that irratates me with Shearer is that he seems to be waiting for the job, fully aware that his hero status will always propels him to the top of every new managers list there is at the club. If he has a style of management, i want to see it implemented at a different club before he takes ours. Sorry to be flogging this horse to death but what's to stop Klinsmann turning into another Gullit? I can well remember people being temporarily enthused about his promises of "shexy football, yah?", only to become equally disenchanted as they are now with Allardyce not too many months afterwards when he fell out with Lee and Shearer. Ain't no such thing as a guaranteed recipe for managerial success. Im not saying which manager would be better as a manager, im saying that if i had to risk it on one of those inexperienced managers id go for Klinsmann because i have already seen what he might be capable of. Shearer is a complete unknown, im one of those people who raher not put the potentially huge future of this club on an unknown quantity. EDIT: If shearer went somewhere no matter how small, and showed that he is a capable manager with good ideas and a good style of football, then he might edge it for me, however saying that, managing on a huge stage in front of your home nation with all the pressure that Klinsmann had would be akin to the SJP environment. Plus i imagine he'd have some priceless contacts.

Amen to that! Best man for the job i say. Of course that's the way it should be. I have a feeling our new board will have the competence to think outside the box. They dont strike me as people who will have narrow minded views on big decisions which would effect the future of the club. None of this Geordie nation bollocks.

I agree about Nobby and Jenas, I still think he could have turned things around and should have been given the chance and support, look at the transfer policy towards the end. Shepherd's interference at the end was a complete f*** up and plays a big part in the position we find ourselves in now, I don't think Robson would have turned us around though although he would still of been better than Souness. I'd of liked to of found out if he could of turned things around rather than sack him and never know. Relegation was never gonna be an issue and we still had the UEFA cup to look forwardto.

Amen to that! Best man for the job i say.