fredbob

Our midfield and striking partnership isnt as good as before in my opinion, but the new back 4 pisses all over the other one. Id agree with you, my point really is that we actually have something really good to build on and its not like we were with Roeder where we were miles off. We're a couple of star players away from having a top6 first team but a little bit off having a top6 squad. Amazing what a win can do.

Today game highlighted one thing and that is how close we actually are to building a competitive squad. For a fair few years now we've had a poor first team with the odd star player dotted in for good measure. Given Given Griffin/Hughes Beye Woodgate Collocini O'Brien Bassong Bernard Enrique Solano Jonas Jenas/Dyer Guthrie Speed Butt/Barton Robert Zog Shearer Owen Bellamy Martins If you ask me, that is a very good first team, are we actually that far away from building something worthwhile?

We were linked to him in the summer, he looks a cracking player, defensive positioning isnt great but has pace to burn so that makes up for it. Went forward like his life depending on it.

Is that Arsenal who currently lie beneath another club with a new owner, one who have shown actual ambition and are looking good for a Champions League spot? Lerner wants Villa to be the best, Ashley wants us to be Fulham. As NJS says, if we've no interest in competing we might as well go home. NJS and many others, quite likely including yourself, thought we'd be having a fantastic season if Keegan hadnt left/walked. How does that tie in with what you have just posted? The position the club would have been in under Keegan WAS Ashley's plan. His failure was not being able to execute that plan. Nevermind though eh, Hall, Shepherd, Dalglish, Gullit, Roeder, Souness, Allardyce and Kinnear, all cunts the lot of them. A fantastic season? No. Better than a relegation dogfight? Yes. No, i'm sure you wont want to put a position on where we'd be under Keegan if he had stayed. Too low and you dis-respect his skills, too high and you shoot every argument about the squad investments in the foot. Tricky one to answer. Spot on.

Guthrie seems to have really grown as the season has gone on, and last three games he's been outstanding. I thought after the first 10 mins we pretty much controlled the game. After taking the lead we did drop back, but the difference this game was that we broke with intent and passed the ball well once we broke up their attack. Massive three points and it will do wonders for the team's confidence...not to mention mine. Well done lads. He just reminds me off Makelele at times, obviously nowhere near the same class but he's always at your feet, he regains possession really well, sits in good defensive positions and never gives the ball away, really retains possession well. He also retains posession well when going forward as well which in recent times has been a bit of a rarity. Signing of the season so far for me, Jonas has been good as has Bassong but Guthrie has been consistently good and has shown up in some big games for us. (Possibly over the top there but im very happy at the moment)

He justs lacks the confidence to go forward and surrender his defensive positioning. Said this before but defensively he's excellent and well worth keeping, absolutely no sense in getting rid of him. Should stay and build on what he;s got.

Great result, very happy with that, very happy with the back 4, very happy with our wingers, especially Zog who whilst may not be putting in the performnaces of his life but is proving a valuable outlet on the left with some good runs, seems to be cementing his place in the side which im very happy about. Up front we were good, the balance still isnt quite right, special mention to Guthrie who i think is absolutely excellent, he's a better version of Scotty Parker and i feel has a big fuiture ahead of him.

but are they any better than joe.? if they were anygood they would have a few job offers all ready. Aidy Boothroyd. Alan Curbishley, Billy Davies, Avram Grant. Alan Pardew I wouldn't have minded Zico..... "The Newcastle job is one that I would be very interested in taking. It would be a privilege and an honour, I've always wanted to experience the Premier League as I believe I could enjoy much success coaching in England." He also commented that he isn't bothered about the structure of the board at Newcastle United, "I am used to working alongside technical directors so this isn't an issue for me. It's normal for me to work in those conditions." Zico or Deschamps for me - one has connections with Wise and the other is a footballing legend who im sure would be appreciated by the masses and as has already been said is familiar with working within this structure. I genuinely think that the solution to this mess is contained in the appointment of one of these 2 managers its in front of the owners eyes but i dont think anyone at the club has the balls to do it to be honest. A job is a job quite frankly and irrespective of the future of the ownership if, as a manager you;re doing good you'll always be in the new owners consideration. Martin o'neill being an example of that.

Sorry, its just like banging your head against a brick wall sometimes, thoses quotes are completely irrelvanent, we know thatKeegan has been undermined thats a fact, the 2 sides arent arguing this point which those quotes would back up. I feel the debate should of moved onto why he was undermined? Was it a simple case of him never having full control on transfers and was expected to accomodate any player the club decided to buy? (Thats seems to be the line alot of fans are taking) Or was it a case of him actually having full say on transfers but was unable to identify suitable targets that fit in with the transfer policy the club was trying to incorporate and therefore forced the clubs hand to act? In my opinion theres evidence that would suggest that the latter explanation is accurate.

In moving to clarify his role on Tyneside, Wise, 41, said: "A lot of people have got a little mixed up with the reason I'm here and we need to straighten that out quite quickly. "I'm not here to be involved in the first team. I'm not here to manage. I'm here to help Kevin as much as possible with bringing young players through and also recommending certain players to him. "He will say yes or no. He has the final word, no one else. I'm not going to do things like bring players in behind his back, I'm not into that. Everything that happens will be run past him and he'll say yes or no." Thats clear then. No interference ... "I've been working desperately hard to find a way forward with the directors, but sadly that has not proved possible," Keegan said in a statement. "It's my opinion that a manager must have the right to manage and that clubs should not impose upon any manager any player that he does not want." ... wait a minute, he is saying there that, in the end, there was interference? A Very strong accusation considering Dennis Wise's statement above, if a false accusation I'm assuming the club will be quick to deny a claim of such particular interference... ● It is a fact that he agreed not to talk to the media in relation to the acquisition or disposal of players. ● It is a fact that Kevin Keegan, as manager, had specific duties in that he was responsible for the training, coaching, selection and motivation of the team. ... I assumed wrong, they did not even deny nor respond to Kevin Keeagn's claim of interference, only stated that ^. And, in my opinion, that reply from the club is so, so telling. That is brand new information.

but woodgate wouldve been INSTEAD of colo, it wouldve been modric OR scweinsteiger OR aimar (or nothing, as iti turned out in acuality) rather than all of them. and you never know how the rest of the budget and spending wouldve been restructured as a result. all we have to go on is what happened and what was spent, the rest of speculative and some of it nonsense. in reality he;s spent virtually nothing at a time when the rest of the league has been spending loads. I never said we'd be signing all of them! For fuck's sake, this place drives me crackers at times. Your post is as much speculation as mine was, though. I still cannot understand why a bloke would spend hundreds of millions to buy a football club in order to become a "fan". Travel up and down the country to watch them and WANT the team to be shite by not spending any money on it. This is where the logic fails, for me. I do understand the reality, but as I said I can't help but wonder if it came about because of monumental failings in the system RATHER than a lack of money. I cannot make this any clearer this time, surely? He made a transfer-record fee bid for Modric, he broke the transfer record for a defender with Coloccini, Schweinsteiger was apparently another very big deal... he said himself he was willing to finance us to the tune of £20m per season (provided he was being honest) out of his own money on top of what the club was making. There was definitely money there to be spent and Keegan kept telling us so and Ashley himself told us now. Kinnear is now telling us so. None of us have seen the books, none of us know what state the finances were/are in and as a result are speculating and biting each other's heads off all over the shop because of it. People are ASSUMING he's been pocketing money (season tickets, TV money) but who's to say it hasn't been used up by the club already, if the books are really as bad as they might have been? People are ASSUMING he wants £450m for the club, at times, which seems insane to me. Obviously I'm assuming the other way, so nobody really can be "right" - that's why debates of this nature are so futile, ESPECIALLY when people are so fucking dogmatic and unwilling to take on another point of view. It's a huge topic of discussion, but I get royally fucked off by those who just see it as black or white and blame one or the other. It's not going to be that fucking simple is it? People need to Wise up. mine isnt as much speculation though, because i actually touch upon some things that have happened - ie ending up with a loanee from uruguay rather than any of those big name expensive players - funny how none of them came off when there was a fee involved yet we can bring in an inexperienced loanee in the space of a day. to me it is pretty obvious, seeing the trend across the three windows, the whinging about it being an expensive seat, his statement that he wasnt willing to spend much, the focus on resale values or of generating future income through developing players for sale, his strategies at sports direct and the desire to cut costs across the board (even down to players suits) that ashley simply hasnt been willing to invest money into transfers thus far. and the facts bare witness to this, a net spend of £3m since ashley assumed power. in the same time Sunderland have spent close to £70m. even a single big signing like modric wouldnt even take us anywhere near that level of investment, which youd think a new owner would want to make for the reasons in your post. I'm not saying you are wrong, far from it, because all of what you have posted could be true. This is what I mean though, egomaniacs like yourself (and myself at times) seem to be more concerned about being "right" or having people conform to their points of view. It's all about fucking points scoring: "mine isnt as much speculation though, because i actually touch upon things that have happened." Well done. Top marks. You've completely ignored the major point in my post about the potential for it being outside of Ashley's control at the key moments (Wise/Keegan/Jimenez) and the fact that there was obviously money available because of the bids made while Keegan was here, instead doing what I suppose people would call an "NE5" now and making a post purely based on your own thoughts/feelings/observations. That's not debating, or arguing or conversing - that's just pushing your ideology over and over and over again, like many others are doing. At least try to take some things people say in opposition to you on board, please, like I'm trying to do here. I don't think there's any doubt that Ashley's handled a lot of things in a very cock-eyed way since he took over here, but I think he's getting beaten with a lot of imaginary sticks at times and that's what doesn't sit right with me. The facts do appear damning, I'm not going to disagree, but we don't know why that has turned out to be the case, which has been my entire point for the last 40 minutes or whatever. It's hard to believe that it's purely 100% Mike Ashley's fault and that he simply was looking to make a profit out of the club rather than actually wanting us to do well (despite what he says and despite what that Andy Dunn fellow has intimated from him). Obviously, it could be all his fault, but is it likely? Really? PS: I find that Sunderland comparison fairly laughable with the amount of piss-taking that gets done about their "£70m wasted". You can't have it both ways man, you want money to be spent on quality players, not just money spent for the sake of spending it. Mirror my exact feelings.

How often does a club make bids for someone if money isnt available? Fuck the illuminati - this is where the conspiracy is at. I can imagine old morty having a word with Modric about this. "We're not interested in you we're just doing this so thick fans think we are looking to spend money. ;) , keep that hush will ya, son." Evil geniuses.

but woodgate wouldve been INSTEAD of colo, it wouldve been modric OR scweinsteiger OR aimar (or nothing, as iti turned out in acuality) rather than all of them. and you never know how the rest of the budget and spending wouldve been restructured as a result. all we have to go on is what happened and what was spent, the rest of speculative and some of it nonsense. in reality he;s spent virtually nothing at a time when the rest of the league has been spending loads. I never said we'd be signing all of them! For fuck's sake, this place drives me crackers at times. Your post is as much speculation as mine was, though. I still cannot understand why a bloke would spend hundreds of millions to buy a football club in order to become a "fan". Travel up and down the country to watch them and WANT the team to be shite by not spending any money on it. This is where the logic fails, for me. I do understand the reality, but as I said I can't help but wonder if it came about because of monumental failings in the system RATHER than a lack of money. I cannot make this any clearer this time, surely? He made a transfer-record fee bid for Modric, he broke the transfer record for a defender with Coloccini, Schweinsteiger was apparently another very big deal... he said himself he was willing to finance us to the tune of £20m per season (provided he was being honest) out of his own money on top of what the club was making. There was definitely money there to be spent and Keegan kept telling us so and Ashley himself told us now. Kinnear is now telling us so. None of us have seen the books, none of us know what state the finances were/are in and as a result are speculating and biting each other's heads off all over the shop because of it. People are ASSUMING he's been pocketing money (season tickets, TV money) but who's to say it hasn't been used up by the club already, if the books are really as bad as they might have been? People are ASSUMING he wants £450m for the club, at times, which seems insane to me. Obviously I'm assuming the other way, so nobody really can be "right" - that's why debates of this nature are so futile, ESPECIALLY when people are so fucking dogmatic and unwilling to take on another point of view. It's a huge topic of discussion, but I get royally fucked off by those who just see it as black or white and blame one or the other. It's not going to be that fucking simple is it? People need to Wise up. Good post. This whole thing needs a hell of a lot more perspective than is being afforded by many posters. Me included.

How so? He said in that wonderful interview with the official magazine that the money was there for Keegan to spend if he wanted it. Ah right. I thought that he meant that big money wansnt going to be spent on big names "trophy players" like we've witnessed in the past. That whole trophy players thing is a myth btw. To an extent you're right, Keegan, Dlaglish and SBR were allowed to build good squads and dot them with the occasional star players, but post SBR i noticed a marked change in our transfer policy where the overall good of the squad was compriomised at times with signings that werent necessry or excessive, Duff, Martins, Owen. those 3 account for £31m, that could of gone along way towards the squad if it were spent properly on the squad. EDIT: Maybe martins was vital, but when it came to January and our transfer dealing, maybe in hindsight that £15m could of been spent a little better considering how much we needed and some of the predicaments we got ourselves into. (Man U , Home)

How so? He said in that wonderful interview with the official magazine that the money was there for Keegan to spend if he wanted it. Ah right. I thought that he meant that big money wansnt going to be spent on big names "trophy players" like we've witnessed in the past.

How so?

I am not quite sure I would class that as an interview Precisely. Fuck me, who cares if its an interview or not? Its still a reflection on his attitude and feelings towards the club. Does anyone think he's truly scared to return the club?

Probably someone we've never heard of or someone we have but is shit.

certain people really have forgotten, or never got at all, the feeling around supporting & watching the club from bobby leaving onwards, largely because of ashley i haven't, i honestly believed we'd eventually get relegated under the old board, their ineptitude seemed to know no bounds after the robson appointment, in fact even during that when they were making the poor old fella look like a mug on the sky cameras with the rooney bid being released the old board did some top stuff but people with memories know it was coming apart at the seams, with 100m+ of debt and the current credit crisis it would have taken a FUCKING good manager to get us back to the CL imo I see the smoggies have released their end of year accounts, and they are 93m quid in the red, and they haven't built a stadium like we have done, nor do they have our support. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. Expect to see flak for Steve Gibson and warnings that the club may fold ? To be fair, Middlesboroughs debts is being guaranteed by alot of Gibsons businesses and Gibson himself is putting personal money in, i wouldnt be surprised if that was the same with a alot of clubs in big debt, like Fulham and Wigan. Im pretty confident that (to Shepherds and Halls credit) that our club was financing itselfs and was holding the debt itself and not being gurantueed by Shepherd or Hall which made debt more of a precarious issue. Like Leeds. Is it ? I don't know. Good for him, he needs to. And seriously, a good friend of mine is a smoggie and he quite rightly thinks the world of Steve Gibson and rightly so, but they appreciate what he's done for them in comparison to where he found them. Leeds made errors, everybody knows that, but we were not heading the way of Leeds. I suppose so, i suppose Shepherd et al are victims of the levels of expectations that they are enitirely responsible for raising, pretty ironic really. I still think that Shepeherd should live and die by his sword, Gibson hasnt reached the meteoric heights that Shepherd et al did let alone be in a position to capitalise on it, mark my words though, if he were to get to our standard and fall by the roadside like we did, the fans will soon forget and hang him to dry. And they'd be right to do so, unfortunately, its the way that the world works.

certain people really have forgotten, or never got at all, the feeling around supporting & watching the club from bobby leaving onwards, largely because of ashley i haven't, i honestly believed we'd eventually get relegated under the old board, their ineptitude seemed to know no bounds after the robson appointment, in fact even during that when they were making the poor old fella look like a mug on the sky cameras with the rooney bid being released the old board did some top stuff but people with memories know it was coming apart at the seams, with 100m+ of debt and the current credit crisis it would have taken a FUCKING good manager to get us back to the CL imo I see the smoggies have released their end of year accounts, and they are 93m quid in the red, and they haven't built a stadium like we have done, nor do they have our support. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. Expect to see flak for Steve Gibson and warnings that the club may fold ? To be fair, Middlesboroughs debts is being guaranteed by alot of Gibsons businesses and Gibson himself is putting personal money in, i wouldnt be surprised if that was the same with a alot of clubs in big debt, like Fulham and Wigan. Im pretty confident that (to Shepherds and Halls credit) that our club was financing itselfs and was holding the debt itself and not being gurantueed by Shepherd or Hall which made debt more of a precarious issue. Like Leeds.

That's because I'd rather have Zaki and pay what it takes to get him. be interesting to see if zaki is a name anyone will remember this time next year. Or if Newcastle would be on Zaki's radar when it comes to chosing a club in June. For that matter, I doubt Newcastle will be on Heskey's radar when he makes his next move. I think his recent rise has been very overrated, he's not gonna get the cream of the crop after him so his options arent limitless.

Said this a bit earlier in the thread but they've already gone past the point of no return. A situation like this needed alot of perspective and thought before a direction was chosen and none was applied when making their first statment. Now that they're back tracking somewhat it's giving a terribly unproffessional look and has nullified any momentum or legitimacy it may of had when it was first formed. It seems like a bit of a lame duck organisation now; the statments suggest dimplomacy, the website suggest propaganda. Ironically its backfired now that they're taking this dimplomatic approach when its far too late, they should of just stuck with there propaganda and pressure in order to make there organisation more affective. Whats happening with the £10k?

The asking price is £10m at the moment. I don't think that's so great but I'm sure Wigan would negotiate...with Villa. £10m??? No way, not for a 30 year old low scoring striker in todays market? For £6m they'd be asking too much.

I think it'll be Man City or bust Liverpool wont rate him high enough to pay his wages and i doubt he'd drop and i dont think Scolari will rate him high enough. I genuinely think theres a good chance to keep him.

Heskey is the perfect player for us at the moment. If we're gonna play the tactics we're doing at themoment then Heskey will be the most effective. Would be available for a very good price as well i think.