Heron

He hasn't put me on ignore (to my knowledge) so I'm sure he'll see it. If not then...we know what's happened

I absolutely won't put you on ignore. You do realise this is a place of discussion around varying points of view. Right?

Pardon? You want me to put you on ignore?

It's not excuses though is it. It's no more an excuse than anything you're saying. You seemingly claiming to know all the inner workings of our transfer policy and behind closed doors comms is purely speculative as is anyone's. If you read any of my posts in here from today, you'll see I will attribute blame to Howe where I feel it is due. Some of the other blame is just that...speculative.

I see your points on the remainder of the post but with regards to the bit in bold - this is when Mitchell was here and presumably 'directing' recruitment, no? Yet folk are now attributing that to Howe because it adds weight to kicking the fella whilst the chips are down at present. At least it feels (to me).

Nicely debated...

Changes to Staveley, Ghodoussi and Mitchell's arrival are all beyond his control and seemingly the PSR and FFP stuff. All very much over his head it seems. Mitchell making the remarks made at the time made suggests disruption to the "plan" re. Recruitment for almost the whole window and so this window was always likely to fail. If Mitchell was in charge of recruitment upon his arrival. Why are folk attributing Guehi and Elanga to Howe? Agreed (on differing opinions :thup:) - I don't happen to agree with your two bullet points but at least can see your reasoning.

He's starting him in the last what...4 league games?

You literally cannot say for certain at all though that this is Eddie Howes doing though and therefore it is purely speculative and how do you quantify "too much" for players?

Fair, but I refer to my point (in discussion with KaKa and Haydn about Mitchell's remark and positioning in this latest window).

Agreed.

The Tonali signing? Not at that time (in hindsight - knowing what they now came to learn). I think he will become a quality player when utilised correctly/the team clicks and so it will prove to be a good signing. I think him being available last season gains us extra points over the season too. So the club will be happy to have signed him, in time.

Yeah that's all we could base it on (and his time at AC Milan) I guess.

Not saying you have mate. But plenty others have. Hindsight is a wonderful thing with Tonali. Plenty of folk have and are still saying he should start every game and also not be subbed - bur why if he doesn't work as intended. Perhaps signing Guehi or having a fit Botman allows our midfield 3 to operate in the way Howe intends? I get that we should be looking further afield for signings, of course we should. But a director of football coming in and saying that the transfer policy isn't fit for purpose surely negates all scouting profiles and intended targets with a complete recision required of what he sees as "fit for purpose" and re-establishing the profile he intends players to fit. That doesn't happen overnight, surely. £70m was too much for Guehi, I think as well, but NUFC were backed into a corner in essence through failings beyond Howes control. I can accept the midfield/tactics not being changed up enough, but for me people are going entirely overboard on Howe now.

Do you think with Tonali available we'd have finished higher last season or perhaps got through the CL group?

Mitchell came into the club and said the transfer policy wasn't upto scratch. So what makes you think Howe would then sanction signings he wasn't absolutely sure of? That's on Mitchell...not Howe. The signings prior to this summer have all seemed fairly decent to me. Nowt to do with excuses. They're valid reasons. They just don't fit your narrative.

Yet many folk take to the Sean Longstaff thread to berate him. Many take to the Tonali thread to berate Howe. Many wanted Tonali to start over Longstaff and it's not having the desired effect. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't (Howe). Many have stated the lack of pace for our CBs as an issue, perhaps Guehi resolves that? Elanga is a RW and folk want a RW on here. It seems to me Howe has at least looked at many of the things being suggested on here (albeit not all) yet when it doesn't work out folk blame Howe for trying them. Now - I'm not saying he as looked at it all. He hasn't. I'm not saying Longstaff is better than Tonali. However, I am suggesting that folk maybe need a bit of humble pie for their own so called 'solutions' too, or are we saying we can afford those 'solutions' more time and not time for Eddie Howes...

Howe is reluctant to spend on players he's uncertain about (with regards to their capability to improve our first 11). Given FFP and all that is going on with that, it is both wise and pertinent to do so - should you wish to follow the rules. Perhaps this is ultimately too safe, and time will tell, but ultimately spunking loads on players who potentially do not make the desired effect and potentially can not have the desired effect would see the club in a worse position than "playing it safe" if they do not pay off. I am reading in this thread that now his transfers are questionable, his tactics aren't good enough, he is stubborn and won't change and that he basically can't motivate the team now. So all in all - folk are collectively saying he is nigh on useless as a manager. And you say "so many excuses"... It's going both ways, and reality is somewhere in the middle of that I am sure.

Are we now questioning Howes signings too? Cause I thought Trippier, Burn, Bruno, Botman and Isak were all excellent and Tonali hasn't had much time either. Am I wrong? Or is it just that now we're saying they weren't his signings because we are now deciding he is ultimately not the man to take us forward from this point in time? Are Guehi and Elanga now bad players? Or are they simply out of form or in out of form sides? Does that mean Gordon is now shite and shouldn't be signed by say...Liverpool and Isak wouldn't get in the Forest side (again playing devils advocate)...

Now now chaps.

It's an issue. Not one we cannot overcome - with Howe.

But some folk are saying even from the start of last season there were issues? Some of the language around "honking" and such like is just sensationalist for me like. We haven't been good but we've picked up points. When we have improved performances we haven't picked up points. We've been let down in two games (in particular - for me) by Howes tactics with the midfield . Fulham and today. Other than that in the last 4 we've missed several massive goal scoring opportunities theough Isak, Gordon and Longstaff. I just feel people weighing in on any specific element of our lack of success aren't really looking at the whole picture, and it's not as bad as some folk are making out either. We could have easily gotten 6 more points in the last 4, just as we could have had 6 less from the games prior. Some of us (myself) are looking at the former. Others seem to only look at the latter. There needs to be some balance to all of this, and that isn't "Howe Out" or "Howes done" or "We will never get anywhere with Howe". (Not saying you've said any of those specific remarks btw.)

Is anyone actually saying everything is fine though?

The fact that we win more than we lose and have been on a largely upward trajectory throughout the current incumbents tenure.