ponsaelius

Been trying to get a feel for how fans of the European clubs feel about this. A poll of Juve fans on their forum showed clear support: https://www.vecchiasignora.com/topic/353397-sondaggio-ufficiale-vs-favorevoli-o-contrari-alla-superlega/ Run it through a Google Translate to get a further idea. Just a disgraceful club supported, in large, by gloryhunting arseholes.

It's interesting how easy it's crumbled. I think it was clearly a very uneasy alliance of motivations. A mixture of: - US owners wanting a US sports model they can control and ensure long term financial growth without the current risk. Clearly the main architects behind the whole thing. (Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Milan particularly). - Clubs terrified about the finances and level of debt they have right now and no idea how to service it (Barca for example in particular but most of them to some degree. Inter's owners probably see an easier sale). - Clubs fearful of the domination of the PL and seeing their own position in the game either at threat or in long term decline for a while (the big Spanish and Italian clubs) - Those that have been brought in to make up the numbers and have jumped at the chance (Atletico, Spurs, Arsenal for example). - Those that have joined even though they don't need the money but had a fear of missing out (e.g. Chelsea and Man City) - Those who have a big grudge with UEFA because of FFP (Man City) - Finally - some of it is just a work of pure Machiavellian evil (see Perez and Agnelli) You can basically put all of them in a few categories but not them all. Once it's been pushed the unified front has clearly collapsed like a deck of cards.

'Moving games early to suit Asian audiences'. Chinese time is GMT+8 and Korean time is GMT+9. For that to work you'd have to kick games off at midday on a weekday. UEFA don't just have an obligation to create a 'product'. They're a sporting body responsible for running every level of the game across the continent. Their job is not to maximise the amount of money in the game to the fucking detriment of everything else.

Bore off.

Young kids are not ever that interested in football though. Playing it of course - and participation figures are still enormous at youth level. But not following a team or watching one - it's just not something that translates to short attention spans or is something that accessible to young kids. I don't think kids really get into football (ie watching/going to games) until they're in mid teens - probably even later for most. It is something you grow into later in life. I think the idea that there is less teenagers/20-30 year olds interested in football now is a total nonsense. The opposite is true in fact. The sport is more popular than it ever has been.

There is definitely benefits of the US sporting model. It has checks and balances in terms of salary caps, equitable self-correcting mechanisms in terms of draft picks etc. That can make the system a little bit fairer for the teams involved in it - so long as your city has the critical mass and ownership capable of buying into it in the first place. But it's borne out of a totally different culture and structure. The power has already been historically consolidated in these teams/franchises from the very beginning, and fans have coalesced towards those sides, and that is the status quo that is accepted. The ladder has never been there anyway so it can't be pulled up. Doing it in European football is just so fundamentally different because you're pulling up the drawbridge on historic 100+ year old clubs that have previously won titles, trophies and have competed at the top level in Europe. You're also pulling it up on thousands of other clubs that exist within the league pyramids of the various countries where the possibility is always there that one day you could do that.

Wouldn't surprise me. De Laurentiis absolutely despises the FIGC. To be honest the level of distrust and dislike the Italian clubs have of their own sporting authorities (justified, tbf) I'd be surprised if more of the clubs haven't tried to break ranks as a fuck you.

It seems to me to be total and utter bollocks?

Exactly. Same goes for the FIGC And RFEF. Pretty much all of the national team players of all 3 countries play for those clubs.

"American blaming" What do people expect like? It's the brainchild of American ownership, funded by a US investment bank, with the intention to creating a closed shop system akin to US sports. Nobody is blaming American footy fans - but it's clearly the result of US capitalists' motivations.

Jose gone.

The idea of the teams playing in the Super League and the PL is so utterly terrible from a format point of view. You have a ropey first 5-10 games to the season in the PL and suddenly you're out of the running. You're guaranteed qualification to the next season's Super League but have no chance of winning the league. Essentially the rest of the league campaign is made up entirely of dead rubbers. The play-off system keeps you alive a bit longer in Super League, but a few more losses and that's over too - no threat of relegation there either. You're left playing 30-40 dead rubber matches with no jeopardy or motivation. Cup competitions will probably have been sacked off to facilitate it all too. All three leagues affected here must have the balls to realise they have the upper hand long term. The success and brand of these clubs is based upon their place within the wider football ecosystem. It would be painful in the short term but PL/Serie A/La Liga would be better without them and eventually would thrive.

What happens with Barca and Madrid and their socios then? Do their fans not get some say on this?

Honestly all feels like a bit of a bad dream. I'm genuinely gutted. I knew football had gone to shit but never felt this would ever actually come to pass.

Thread from January which called it and goes into more detail about the (scandalous) financial structure.

Interesting that the branding doesn't at any point include Europe in it.

Absolutely minging all round tbh. Just feel really sad that the sport I love has been ruined.

They're not going to be leaving their domestic leagues though. That's a non starter I think and too much of a risk. They will want guaranteed qualification but be able to continue in domestic football. Which is clearly bad for the competitiveness of both.

Covid has massively accelerated this. Realisation that they can completely exist and thrive without supporters in the ground. Global supporters happy to watch football like a video game. This and the increased involvement of American ownership and American money in the game sees this gradual slide towards a US sports model. Very, very sad I think more than anything. The very fabric of European football is based on the history of the domestic games and the subsequent qualification into Europe. I personally don't think the actual breakaway league will happen. But it will essentially blackmail UEFA into implementing the closed shop that they want.

I personally don't see the point of an international football tournament without fans, or at even quarter capacity. Club football is bad enough without it - but international tournaments live and die by the spectacle and atmosphere. If it can't be played without full stadiums and international fans then just postpone until next summer. It's different with the Olympics because often the athletes have trained their whole lives for such a narrow window of time - and for some sports that comes along once in a lifetime. There is not the same tribalism/carnival to proceedings that really needs full crowd or travelling supporters. Football on the other hand can, and should, live with holding off until a proper event can take place.

Watching the Armenia - Romania highlights. Thoroughly refreshing to watch. A stadium full of fans going bonkers. A forward making a great run to score a goal and being given benefit of the doubt by the naked eye rather than overruled by tedious VAR. Really hammers home just how depressingly neutered the current version of the game being played actually is.

Yeah they drew in the Stade de France a couple of years ago and hit the bar late on. All the talk of pre-qualifying that comes up every time we play San Marino is a bit sad I think. UEFA's qualifying system is great for allowing teams to improve because they get to play regular games against a variety of different teams. The fact Iceland made the quarter finals of a major tournament shows the benefits of UEFA's format and depth on the continent. There's obviously a cut off point once you get under about 100k population (the real minnows) which means they're just never going to have the critical mass to qualify - but that doesn't mean they can't improve to the point where they can eventually give the odd bloody nose.

Luxembourg are a funny one because they're very much a total minnow historically but probably have the scope to be better than they have been. Surrounded by countries with deep footballing culture and quite a diverse immigrant population (Balkans and Portuguese in particular). A population of 600,000 puts them more in the Iceland/Montenegro/Norn Iron sphere than it does San Marino/Andorra.

The ground being in the city centre adds about 10k onto our attendance too. Thousands go just because they can walk out the pub at 2:50pm and still go to the match.