Cf

Thought we've looked good here. Lacking a little cutting edge perhaps but we have, but for a few cm, had the ball in the net.

Why the fuck did we give this lot 3 points.

No-one does. We want him to sort out his deficiencies (which he clearly has) to ensure his inclusion and be one of the greats. If he doesn't do that then yes - we'll be looking to move on at some point. Just acknowledging that as a possibility though doesn't mean people want it to happen.

I suppose one way of looking at a tactical foul is a quick shirt pull or little trip is probably harmless enough to the player. If though you're lunging in with no effort to play the ball and you're just looking to get the man then it's verging on assault. Football is obviously a contact sport and injuries will happen. But it has to be played in good faith, and when tackles go in they need to be genuine attempts to play the ball and also not be dangerous. The Allan tackle wasn't the worst thing I've seen in the world danger wise bit couple that with the fact no attempt made to play the ball then red seems more than justified to me.

Urgh.

The fact that a corner was given was what made it pass the clear and obvious test with flying colours.

Exactly. The frustration is we can all see the player he can be. But he needs to be more. When you're in a relegation fight and Bruce has the entire team underperforming then a player like ASM is what can help you out of it because his quality is like night and day with the rest of the squad. You need his moments of magic because lord knows you're not going to create anything else. But that's not the case anymore. The rest of the team is now putting in a much better shift. Having his moments of magic is still a massive help of course - especially with our injuries we could do with the creative flair. But unlike before the team has a shape and identity. He needs to fit inside that. We looked noticeably worse yesterday when he came on in that sense. When he did get the ball he regularly just ran himself into trouble. There's nothing here that can't be fixed. But there's a reason he's playing for us and not one of the "big sides" in the first place. And if these parts of his game don't get fixed then we should be looking to upgrade ourselves. You can't have 10 players executing a game plan and one just doing his own thing. Get this stuff sorted out and we have a world class player. As it stands we just have a very very talented player and the two things aren't the same.

The annoying thing is by the time he has himself surrounded by 3 players he's done his job. If there's a pass to make then make it. He's obviously a quality player. And some of the stuff he pulls off requires the selfish going for glory streak. But there's a balance, and he could do with trying to involve his team a bit more.

Yeah, whatever. Unlucky not to get anything from it. Should have at the very least had a penalty. If that's the level Howe has got our second string side playing at then things are looking up.

That's a joke that they even looked. Didn't look at ours did they?

The ref has lost this.

Fuck right off.

If that's a yellow then the elbow is 2 red cards in one.

That's not even a foul never mind a yellow.

Jesus what a strike.

Yeah. The sort of decision where VAR will just side with whoever way the ref goes.

Obv could easily have been a red buy I think you can just about justify a yellow there. He's at least going for the ball, albeit a bit dangerously.

This stopping play when the ball hits the ref rule is ridiculous.

In fairness Carragher said it's more down to Howe than that.

Lascelles doing his best to never be on the team sheet again.

Lascelles looks way off the pace.

He's just resting players isn't he with the Everton game being given a higher priority. Fair enough.

Didn't we do something similar where we were the first in the champions league to lose our opening 3 and still qualify?

Southgates main achievements in my view are to do with the culture and representing us well as a country, and in an international role this is certainly a positive. In footballing terms I think he's only been ok. And ok is certainly an improvement on what we've been used to. We went deep in the euros and world cup but a bit like pardew finished 5th, Bruce 13th, it doesn't quite tell the full story. We had incredibly good draws - look over the fixtures and it feels to me like we did what we'd be expected to do. Basically he hasn't exceeded expectations or overachieved in footballing terms. I agree we should have contingencies in case something happens with Howe but Southgates name should be nowhere near that.

Don't know why loads of people are slating him in here or suggesting he's not doing well at West Brom. He's got them in 13th. I thought that was good and something to be pleased with?