Kid Icarus

Luton 1-1 Chelsea Villa 2-0 Burnley Palace 1-1 Brentford Man City 3-0 Sheff United Wolves 2-1 Everton Forest 1-1 Man United Fulham 0-2 Arsenal Spurs 2-2 Bournemouth Liverpool 3-1 Newcastle West Ham 1-1 Brighton

14 at one point IIRC. It's without question the worst injury crisis I've seen while supporting the club and the next one on the list (06/07 under Roeder) pales in comparison

Shows how fickle fans are to be citing Man United, who we battered not that long ago, as an example of how to do it like. It's one round of matches and it's December. Still so much football to be played between now and the end of the season.

Deserved. Should be more than 3 as well. Villa completely shat the bed and Man United have been much better than them.

Villa are very good but these high lines being beaten have been in the post for ages like. Probably worth it as a risk/reward in most matches though

Very enjoyable match this

IIRC from the Man United Bournemouth match, goals disallowed because a player was offside when they shouldn't have been isn't a thing and can't be counted as a big chance. ?

Is this Trafford for Burnley legit? He looks good but only seen this match

It was really impressive, definitely.

It wouldn't be the same Joelinton and that's kind of the point. Howe is a huge factor in who these players are. We don't have the same Joelinton, Schär, Almiron, Longstaff, Murphy and others. Howe got to the Champions League largely using those players. No comparison for me, what Howe did was remarkable, what Rafa did was commendable.

Incidentally Steve McManaman just said in his summary of our match that we look out on our feet. You hear it fairly regularly so it's not like we're just imagining it or being biased.

A lot of those players are still here and have just been playing in the Champions League because of Howe tbf. I loved Rafa and will always defend him, but in terms creating a team bigger than the sum of its parts, there's no comparison between him and what Howe's done. In a way Howe's set a rod for his own back - now he's got us in the Champions League with a lot of Rafa era players, rather than thinking of it as a remarkable achievement, those players are reimagined as better players. So then when the bad results come it's less "these are Championship level players" and more "Howe should be doing better"

I'll hate it if they beat us, but if he was sacked on the back of that I'd view it as a bigger win for them than in the match. I'd be absolutely gutted and totally embarrassed of the club to throw away everything because of a loss to fucking Sunderland.

I wouldn't trust Rafa to do that tbh. I spent a lot more time on here defending Rafa because of the mitigating circumstances he was in with player availability than I ever have Howe. And Howe has had it way worse but done much better imo. Rafa could get us keeping a good defensive shape and galvanised a kind of triumph over adversity style, but we still lost plenty and the football was often poor.

It's not that I'd be happy carrying whatever, it's that I just fully reject your premise. No idea how thinking a manager of 2 years who's been incredibly successful should walk on the back of a defeat to Sunderland is grey and not clearly black and white, but whatever, that's your opinion and no one is saying you can't have it, I just think the opinion itself is a stupid reactionary one.

Tbf, I'll always maintain that Brighton were brilliant in that match. We pressed hard plenty and their play to beat the press was outstanding I thought. Take the point though, we haven't always pressed this season.

Wanting him to stay, but if we lose to Sunderland he should go isn't grey is it.

Today it felt like the increasingly low-energy football that we're playing at the moment came home to roost, if you pardon the pun. I thought we'd be able to make our home form stick despite our poor away form, but that looked like one of our away matches today and we didn't have the football to lift the crowd to push them through. I think it's kind of got the point where blaming everything on injuries and fatigue is seen as too simplistic and making excuses, but it really is such a huge factor and has had a massive impact now that it's properly caught up with us and our style of play.

If he doesn’t survive that then it'll be as sure a sign as any that the board don't know what they're doing as far as I'm concerned

The dead man walking guy obv

Looking at your posts you talk a remarkable amount of shite like

If we didn't last summer we definitely did the previous summer when we were having bids rejected. Obviously you take everything with a pinch of salt but the word summer just gone was that he wanted to be in London, so maybe we just didn't bother. With both players there was too much smoke for there to have been no fire imo.

Missing out on Maddison and Szobszlai, who have nigh on identical fbref player profiles suggests to me that Howe knows what's needed and they're looking for an alternative that we haven't heard about yet.

It sounded bad, but tbf I think a midday Boxing Day kick off almost guarantees that'll be the case

Newcastle 2-1 Forest Bournemouth 2-0 Fulham Sheff United 2-1 Luton Burnley 1-3 Liverpool Man United 1-2 Villa Brentford 1-2 Wolves Chelsea 1-1 Palace Everton 1-1 Man City Brighton 2-2 Spurs Arsenal 3-0 West Ham