St. Maximin

Null and void the season now. Definitely best for everyone…

So we did. Not sure why I chose to forget those...

Yes I agree. However, I still think they had their limitations in the PL. I still remembered our record against the best teams being poor, but we did beat Man City fwiw. At the same time we failed to register a shot on target against Fulham when bottom so think Rafa had to take ownership of that too.

Ultimately not a lot. We did what we had to and should be thankful to Rafa for a great job overall. I'm more just acknowledging the downsides to his time here having analysed things a bit deeper than just points tallies, which is what we've all been calling for from pundits and the like during the Bruce era. Sure it seems harsh being critical, but I feel it's proportionate. He wasn't a miracle worker and his tactics definitely had their limitations too. Should be very grateful overall having said that.

Would be a bit boring if we all agreed, no? I remember for a while we couldn't be completely confident of automatic promotion - think after we lost to Ipswich it felt like that while Brighton had gone and secured it. Huddersfield fell apart once we pulled away and Brighton monumentally choked when they should have wrapped the league up, only for us to take advantage and win with a few minutes to spare. With that squad you'd expect comfortable promotion but the final stats didn't quite tell the full story. So not really being contrarian for the sake of it

That Mitrovic has been ridiculously prolific in that league ever since when played as the main man does raise questions over Rafa's handling of him, but saying that he had Gayle for most of the season and he was excellent so with hindsight that didn't really matter. I still don't think we were overly impressive that year given the squad and our struggles to get there. However, finishing 10th the following year was brilliant and Rafa's standout year here imo.

Not really towing the party line here, but we always have to mention the organisation, plan and the fact he cared and engaged with the fans to justify the admiration he had because the football wasn't always great, both in terms of aesthetics and results. We just about won the Championship, so you can't have many complaints really, but we really should have won it more easily with that squad imo. We barely used a striker who has scored for fun in that league for a few years now and had several embarassing home results/performances. At one stage it didn't even look like automatic promotion was safe and then Brighton had to truly bottle it to let us win the league in the closing minutes. We were in two relegation battles in the Prem for a while and needed some good runs towards the end to keep us safe. I am aware there was a lack of investment but most of these squads in the bottom 10 or so aren't massively different in terms of quality. In his last season we were fighting closely with Cardiff for ages and if one of us teams had a 'Championship squad' it wasn't us. I also don't recall people talking about how good Warnock was as a manager either. Then the moving to China I also didn't feel 100% comfortable with. Of course his offer here was a disgrace and the financial incentives of his move were understandable, but it was a bit of a kick in the teeth imo that it was a for a job the other side of the world to his family, in a crap league where there was presumably a language barrier. Bit of a weird decision, just like Everton and I guess you could say us too.

Nah. We all hate it when there are stupid stereotypes about us being deluded so doing likewise about other fans is silly.

It’s one of the weirdest phrases I’ve heard from football fans. Like every other team they will have their toxic members of their fanbase, but they can’t just be blamed for the fact their manager is having a stinker.

This is why we shouldn’t be surprised that so many people stick up for Bruce. Having mates in the right places help but no way did we have 12/13th place squads on paper and then you factor in our injury issues. Bruce just happened to rely on luck and not tactics, but if it keeps going for you, people will have to do more and more work to show why you aren’t doing a great job. Honestly didn’t get why people thought we were more than relegation battle material on paper.

I’d say for balance as much as the lazy and ignorant comparisons with Bruce to suggest they performed similarly annoy me, I also find the refusal to criticise him from many of our fans a bit puzzling. I’d often hear that he’s a “world class manager” that knows best but tbh I don’t see how he still counts as that based on the last 10 or so years. He was often deemed in the top 5 managers in the league on here recently and again I don’t see how that was warranted. No doubt here you could clearly show he did a great job here, but I’m not sure it’s much more remarkable than what a lot of less successful managers had done in the Championship and post-promotion. I do think you sometimes have to jump through hopes to argue how well he’d done at times talking about plans and organisation, when it can be easily acknowledged we were in relegation battles, had an even worse first 10 games than this year in 2018 and at times we did look toothless even at home to weaker opposition. It was interesting that back then we had a ‘Championship squad’ but then last year under Bruce the narrative switched to an underperforming squad despite many of the same players. Even a few weeks back when Everton lost embarrassingly to Watford, the comments here were focussing on how toxic the Everton fans were, but regardless he needs to take responsibility as those goals were shambolic.

Great man-manager also.

Do some people just look taller/smaller for various reasons or are the stats just a bit off? For example I always thought Mitro doesn’t look tall but apparently he’s 6ft2, whereas Sean Longstaff always looks gangly but is 5ft11 apparently? ?

Nah he’s had a few assists, but has been largely turd. Good to know that he, Joelinton and Shelvey actually have footballing ability though. Crazy what some proper coaching and fitness can do…

When Bruce was on TV enjoying the cricket in Dubai I am pretty sure he would have been there regardless of whether he was still manager. It was an international break after all...

He’s definitely not merely a ‘Championship striker’. In fact that’s a pretty flawed description as I’m not sure how many Prem goals you have to score to qualify as PL irrespective of team. There aren’t many top 10 strikers that hit double figures. What I do feel is apparent is he needs to be the main man. He showed in previous Prem seasons he doesn’t have a bad record as the main striker and obviously he’s prolific for country. His bad form for us was when he was second fiddle to Gayle. I’d kind of still want him back but he definitely shouldn’t be ahead of Wilson.

With the takeover, definitely. More due to Ashley going. It's not made me think the Saudi state are all great lads now or that they really wanted my approval.

Good post, thanks for clarifying. When it comes to 'doubt' I would say I doubt the intentions and outcomes of these investments are for a change of reputation on a large scale. The use of Saudi flags in the ground on Twitter, whoppers dressing up in tea towels and the fans defending KSA I find not only embarrassing but distasteful. However, for sportswashing to have major concerns (that I imagine AI and the media have written about), there needs to be a change of reputation on a much bigger scale, perhaps with a notable proportion of the UK's football fanbase fightong the Saudis' corner, but really I am only seeing this from a small minority of Newcastle fans. The takeoover has been used to turn a lot of other fans against us really so from a sportswashing perspective I don't feel too concerned.

Wasn’t aimed at anything you said mate but there’s this underlying assumption by people arguing their sportswashing concerns that Arabs are trying to please us with their calculated methods of investing in sport. The article I posted I think is decent, from someone who knows a thing or two about KSA and PIF. By all means they want to engage with the west but it’s a business move as they attempt to diversify and grow their economy. The cynical idea they are trying to draw attention away from human rights abuses I feel lacks evidence and even if they are, then it’s not very effective for the reasons I gave. It’s interesting you say that when KSA has changed a lot of its laws. If that continues over 10 years then maybe you are right but I’m not sure how much that has to do with sportswashing. Also the Russia and Qatar world cups were awarded over 10 years ago, but especially for the latter, they have merely put human rights issue to the forefront of a lot of fans’ minds when chances are they never thought about them before.

Ok then I’ll enjoy seeing the Saudis become heroes over the next few years and all of a sudden their human rights abuses will be magically forgotten about, as all the journalists writing about them will join our side too. After all, Arabs just want to please us westerners.

I do. If that’s sportswashing then it’s pretty pathetic really. If they want to buy a club to change their reputation and that’s the kind of success they get, then they haven’t achieved much and neither is that a reason for the likes of Amnesty International to start ranting away about the concept. I cynically think just don’t think certain countries are fit to own clubs or host sporting events and need to use some concept to make their concerns seem less controversial. What I’m waiting to see is attention being directed away from human rights abuses, when by and large the opposite seems to have happened. Funny how all the journalists commenting on sportswashing seem to ironically be contributing to the opposite effect. And it’s pretty insulting to the intelligence of both the Saudis and the UK public to think the human rights abuses will just magically become unheard of or even ignored. This guy gets it. https://www.themag.co.uk/2021/10/sportswashing-is-a-term-that-explains-little-and-obscures-everything-newcastle-united-takeover/

Yeah I agree there, though as I’ve said before I still don’t really see the evidence of this sportswashing aside from a few idiots wearing tea towels and waving Saudi flags. The negative attitudes seem to outweigh this significantly. I just find the sportswashing view has been used to describe this takeover as an unquestionable fact from the media, but if that’s what they’re trying then they need to up their game.

You know Rafa is no longer our manager right? And he’s also a human and like all other managers, will make mistakes from time to time? Just don’t get the obsession now, on a forum where Everton fans are often weirdly called “scouse mackems” but people also (rightly) complain about lazy generalising of fanbases.

Geordies calling anyone with a southeastern accent a cockney

I’m not sure what Rafa has done recently to say he’s above the likes of Moyes, Rodgers, Howe etc. He’s up there in people’s top 5 because of his historical achievements imo. But then again it’s just so hard to compare different managers and clubs. Agree it’s a pretty phenomenal standard of managers - teams also.