St. Maximin

Obviously they do have fans. I was attempting to paraphrase Lordshola in his post I quoted, though I did miss out the word ‘real’. I can still understand why he has that view though. As Froggy said their attendances are significantly below those of the other biggest clubs. Seems impossible to get tickets to most games here in London. People have such a desire to see clubs fail based on a few actions of their managers or the small sample of fans they’ve met of those teams. Each to their own, but it just means the same team wins every time and that is surely really boring for football.

Well it’s exactly that which confuses people. It’s not good for football that a cheating, manufactured club without fans gets to win arguably the best league every year, just to ensure teams with real fans don’t win it because they have a manager that annoyed people.

I think it’s all the same really. Every fanbase has its share of idiots that don’t represent them in general. We’re no exception, but it’s not stopped others from wrongly having this idea we’re all deluded with unrealistic explanations. City fans have seen their team go from nothing to dominant in pretty much no time during the last 15 years. No surprise we don’t come across many annoying fans given what they’ve been able to enjoy. Given how poor their atmosphere and attendances can be also, in many ways I prefer a more annoying fan base that seems to care than an irrelevant one.

Each to their own here - I get why Klopp and Arteta aren’t liked but I really struggle to see why people would rather Man City win the league again. Even if you don’t have hatred for their manager, it’s surely really boring seeing the same team win again and again and getting to where they are through being able to spend extraordinarily before the other big teams could surely doesn’t help. Klopp and Arteta are just whinging idiots. A club goes far deeper than that the person managing. Surely nicer just seeing them not having something to complain about too.

Yeah I’d say in his defence, losing to the best teams isn’t a new thing for England (and there are plenty of things I maintain he deserves praise for). I don’t think you can argue he’s had favourable draws though (Sweden and Ukraine in particular as quarter-finals). I get the argument anyone can beat anyone at that level, but surely it becomes a theme when you typically beat the weaker teams and lose to the better ones over a few years. I’m all for humble pie if he can lead us to victory this summer mind.

If we’re talking about Southgate’s record of typically beating weaker teams and losing to the better teams in big tournaments, then I’m not sure what’s nonsensical about it. He’s our second most successful manager but you move the goalposts based on the standard of the squad and opposition. Colombia and Sweden sides missing their star players and Germany and Denmark sides at Wembley (all inferior sides) have been the biggest big tournament challenges he’s succeeded in.

Yeah the football was horrendous without doubt, though my point was based on results he wasn’t a disaster and ultimately on paper we’re looking at eventual outcomes. I would say 15/16th didn’t seem terrible anyway with that squad and injuries we had. Bruce had a mare with Schar and Joelinton (even Howe didn’t initially think he was a centre mid though), but our star players were arguably Dubravka (a good midtable keeper then), Wilson (a great striker but often injured) and ASM (at times brilliant, but also regularly frustrates and was often injured). I seem to remember us finishing above Brighton, who weren’t far from relegation, yet their manager got a lot of praise and quite a few players were rated highly.

I know I’m not towing the party line here and of course results don’t tell us the bigger picture, but Bruce was not a disaster from a results perspective until the start of his final season. I think 13th and 12th was reasonable on paper given the squad he had and I’ve yet to see anyone suggest otherwise. His tactics were dreadful (or non-existent) but I think the main cause of hostility was he was a classless and lazy idiot.

I think the idea you should be defensive to win tournaments is a bit backward tbh. France weren’t great to watch in 2018, but I think it’s fair to say they were playing to their strengths. Portugal were pretty unwatchable in 2016, but I could understand as even with Ronaldo they didn’t seem to have the quality of other teams. On the contrary I would say Italy in 2021 were, perhaps uncharacteristically, not that defensive and the same with Argentina in 2022. I’m all for balance and being sensible, but surely an element of playing to our strengths comes into it. Often seemed Southgate would overcompensate by removing attacking players and play more defensive players.

He looks no more out of position than Burn tbf. Burn has played quite a lot at LB, but he is a 6ft7 CB that just happens to be left-footed. He often drifts into a CB position and nowadays the high number of right-footed LWs makes right-footed LBs more effective imo. To me it just looks like the classic case of a manager who wants a player he can ‘trust’ because the more exciting and seemingly more obvious option is risky, which is a bit of a shame. Surely you try and mould the way they play to complement the players around, because whatever he’s trying to do with a very sluggish and easily targeted LB isn’t working.

I don’t think he is at all. He claims we ‘function better’ with him in the side, but our home form since he got back in the side completely suggests otherwise. Actually don’t mind him away for games like Villa (where he was good), but at home against weaker sides without the midfield cover, it’s suicidal. Far from all his fault as it’s a slow defence, but he’s the obvious change. People act like Livramento is unproven there too. He put in some excellent performances at both LB and RB and imo was our best player before Christmas. It’s not like he can’t defend either or even being a more attacking player would harm the way we ‘function’ as his recovery pace is so fast. Plus his mistakes don’t get highlighted as much because he’s on to help us salvage a result following goals Burn had a hand in. What I do agree with is on how the crowd reacts and it seems harsh when other defenders are at fault. But we all know it’s frustration at the manager not using alternatives.

This doesn’t seem unfair and I’m confused. Original post seems more of a criticism of Howe than scapegoating Burn. Leaving aside Burn’s performance, Tino was very good when he played earlier on this season and without assuming he’s the saviour of our season, he never looked like he’d get outpaced on a regular basis like Burn would. That’s not Burn’s fault though and I think he does seem like a very easy target, but it’s because there’s a pretty obvious alternative who has proven himself, whereas the likes of Botman, Longstaff et al don’t currently have that. Ultimately that’s a Howe issue though and quite concerning he’s not addressed it the bigger picture. Our home form of recent has been abysmal when you consider the goals were conceding and I have to say Howe’s approach has really cost us and in the case of Burn, is exposing him and making him a very easy target.

I tend to agree with the criticism of him, but I think lack of pace and poor positioning can be levelled against the other defenders too and so it seems harsh he gets more. Difference is they should all be first choice despite that, whereas I can’t see why Tino isn’t at LB. The fact Howe has sometimes made that switch early says a lot. You can’t have a regularly struggling starting left-back. Sure he’s had some great games recently and had a strong second-half yesterday too. Imo he’s absolutely an option for deeper and more defensive spells. But he’s had a huge hand in several goals recently and clearly being targeted. Cost of that can’t be ignored.

I think it can seem like there’s a lot of animosity because he’s constantly playing ahead of more natural full-backs, who are quicker and offer more going forward, as well as seemingly being harshly dropped. Seems the loyalty to Burn is unreasonably so much higher to him than Tino. Also maybe a reaction to him getting an easier time because he’s a local and a great lad (which he is and I’m sure offers enough to the squad by his leadership alone). We hear a lot about how he shouldn’t play against fast right-wingers because of his lack of pace, but isn’t that pretty much every right-winger in this league? You can’t get away with a full-back who is that slow; you’ll just get found out.

Don’t care for ETH, but Rashford was too ‘ill’ to train in Manchester after a night out in Belfast. Irrespective of what the manager is like, that’s pretty disgraceful and unprofessional behaviour towards a club that pays him crazy money and he should know better. The guy was a national hero not long ago and now he’s ruined his reputation and is acting like an idiot when he should really be maturing.

We’ve actually got it wrong all this time. Clearly Joey has actually been looking out for the female pundits, worrying about their mental health all this time. One of football’s good guys. https://x.com/common_sensepod/status/1749871853881987522?s=46&t=h8yv-Yp4IOGkVPLw7fULYw

Of course there are brilliant players who have played for that team. I just thought Sancho thrives on all the space that you get as a strong counter-attacking team in that league. Looks like he doesn’t have the pace or skill to be dangerous in a better league.

Sancho Well his Dortmund record was excellent, but it just seemed hard not to look good in that team and league.

Real sad state of affairs there are Toon fans that like this bloke and tbh I struggle to see why. He was good for about 6 months having spent a lot of his time in jail, went on some rants about Ashley while pretending to read philosophy and then promptly left. I appreciate he had a very tough upbringing but he’s never really tried to not be a horrible bloke. A lot of other people like him at least learn to grow up.

On the subject of Rafa, it might seem negative but I wonder if he could have experimented with the 3 CBs and WBs the odd match like Rafa did. Not his fault we had an injury crisis, but the same midfielders wasn’t working. Meanwhile we still had a few defensive options on the bench - sure Dummett/Krafth/Burn/Manquillo/Ritchie could have slotted in here and there…

Your use of the phrase ‘generally managed fine’ is pretty key here. While I agree, I think you expect a bit more than that from a full-back. I feel for a while he survived on having lower expectations than others - the reliable midtable CB playing LB and a local lad living his dream unexpectedly etc. As well as not offering lots going forward, I don’t recall him having strong wingers in his back-pocket. He just seemed mostly solid with clear limitations and one of them being lack of pace. I think managers eventually found that out and he started becoming more mistake-prone later last season. It’s not a surprise - he’s been a very solid CB imo but way too slow to be dealing with some of the quickest players out wide. Trippier isn’t especially quick either, but has sufficient acceleration and agility that Burn doesn’t have.

He shouldn’t and won’t be under pressure for a long time, but needs to take account for this. It should be a routine win amongst a tough run, but it’s made it incredibly hard for us and now we’ve got really tough away fixtures. Our inability to break down defensive teams is coming back to bite now. But I at least expect us to defend properly Can only assume Livra had a knock, otherwise he’s had a howler there.

Got us knocked out of Europe too. Ridiculous that a fairly slow centre-back thinks he can dribble through teams like Messi.

Presumably the club like the idea of wishing in different languages. I imagine Karius can speak English too.

Pretty sure that’s the Russia flag upside down on those sleeves #sportswashing