St. Maximin

The thick as mince fans and journalists will move on. It’s big news in football today and we’re all horrible people following the takeover remember, so the narrative has turned. I’m sure 10 months ago many of these people were slagging Bruce off also.

I would say ever so slightly in his defence that the fans didn't take to him initially and Rafa would have been a tough act to follow even if Bruce was to conduct himself professionally. The way he left Sheffield Wednesday justifies the animosity though, but funnily enough everyone overlooks that.

So this guy is decent right? Had a quick look at his Wikipedia page and seemed he absolutely smashed it in Ukraine, but given that league is dominated by two teams I'm not sure how impressive that was? Fair play to him though.

I do like Howe but I just can’t look past how bad they are in his last season, especially given how we destroyed them at their place… under Steve Bruce.

I don’t really ‘want’ Howe either but I’m not sure what our best realistic options are. Would definitely take Gerrard. Whatever you think about him, he was a leader and professional that would be very demanding but I feel gain respects of his players. Clearly that’s something we need.

Would Howe improve the defence? They looked shambolic in his last season but maybe that’s harsh given what he achieved before.

Crazy seeing him on TV as I’ve met him a fair few times at uni. He’s a great bloke and one of the funniest people I’ve met. Outstanding from everyone really. Have to credit the Spurs players too.

Not the first time Lascelles has been scrapping with team mates. Bit poor really, along with his general leadership.

Yeah the problem is there are the alternative stats that say Bruce’s Newcastle points tally and positions in the Prem are similar and really that’s all his supporters are going to focus on. It’s clear as day to us he’s destroyed the solid defensive foundation we’ve had and his luck is running out but you can ignore that if you’re not willing to analyse properly/Bruce’s mates/hate the Toon fans.

Ok yeah, presumably “resign now or get the inevitable sack we get a replacement”. Not sure how a Bruce going through the motions is going to be of any use.

I’m confused. Is there something about our contracts? Took us ages to sack McClaren and now Bruce. if it’s to do with a replacement I don’t get that either. They surely want him gone, so it’s not fair on anyone to keep him around. Don’t think he should be treated like that as much as I don’t like him.

Problem is, unless Bruce’s record becomes significantly weaker the Rafa comparisons are ineffective. It’s all fair enough saying look at what he did with a lack of funds, had a vision, engaged with the fans and the city etc. However, it takes too much analysis for the average ignorant fan/pundit to realise that. Or they are just suffering from major confirmation bias post-takeover as we’re all awful people all of a sudden.

It really does embarrass me but I don’t think it’s a strong argument for sportswashing. If your investments can convince a minority of idiots blissfully unaware/disinterested in human rights to wear tea towels, while simultaneously encouraging significantly higher media attention to their abuses, then you need to up your game in your sportswashing attempts.

Good points without doubt, but often he’s picking the stupidest arguments people make online so it’s not hard really. As I’ve said before I’m pretty sceptical ‘sportswashing’ is all it’s made out to be also, but he’s just spoke about it like it’s an objective undeniable fact. Yes the takeover might get a few idiots waving Saudi flags, but the media coverage seems to have raised far more attention here to human rights abuses there, so I’m really not sure how that is effective overall. The ‘whataboutery’ about our government carries some weight also because football (not just us) can’t be accountable to dealing with immoral people if the government we elect in can’t surely. And is MBS even the ‘owner’ or really involved in the club? Does he even have that much influence in PIF? Obviously he’s the chairman but he may not have significant involvement. Seems to have other jobs to do first I’d have thought. Also the stakes in other companies are minimal but often far more money has gone into some of them as a slight counter point, plus they actually own about ten times the amount in Uber that he’s making out.

Did he call any of them a cous cous nonce though?

Mount now playing Grealish’s role despite being ineffective for England… why not, err, just play Grealish there Gareth? I’m sure it’s not that risky a move.

Mount is a good player for Chelsea without doubt, but bang average for England if that. There is no reason he has to be a regular in the team sheet - I’ve said before it’s a typical English attitude in sport to be favouring the model pro and conservative options while being cynical of someone more maverick. For all Southgate has got right (quite a lot imo), it was pretty clear Grealish and Foden (and perhaps others) should have got more pitch time ahead of Mount in the Euros. Grealish is brilliant and his stats back that up. Not sure why some people are so keen to show he’s overrated.

Now he’s getting sacked we can just move on and he becomes irrelevant rather than a continued target of abuse. I don’t like or rate him and wish he’d walked ages ago, but I still don’t feel comfortable about abuse, at least now he’s going and won’t be our problem anymore. Can you really call out social media and it’s followers when celebrities take their lives but justify abuse when it’s your manager really? Find this a pretty conflicting issue because I can’t stand the bloke but at the same time he’s still a human.

I feel no guilt but I like to think I’m a pretty sympathetic guy, so I find it hard not to feel sorry for the likes of Hatice Cengiz or other victims of the human rights abuses when I see Saudi investment celebrated like this. However, this is ultimately about business and not the Saudi state becoming heroes. They gain something here and so do we. I’m not sure how much involvement PIF will have in the day to day running of the club, but they could well be decent people involved in it as I imagine most Saudis are. They may not all have the moral compass of the Bin Salmans and the PIF is ‘separate’ after all. Seeing MBS as the PIF chair makes me feel a bit more uneasy but he may have nothing to do with us. I also don’t really agree with the sports washing narrative. To an extent it’s true but I feel the investment raises our awareness more of human rights abuses once these countries become more involved in western society.

Well said, I agree with all of this. Saying that (while knowing very little about the organisation), I also don’t want to be in a situation where everything to do with the Saudis is negative and we act like everyone associated with PIF supports the barbaric human rights abuses or that it’s all blood money etc. I don’t really buy this ‘sportswashing’ narrative AI like to keep referring to also. I feel the investment of countries like KSA, UAE and Qatar in sports has led to far more media attention on their human rights records, so I’ve learnt a lot more about them and to be honest, it’s not positive. At the end of the day we should neither feel guilty about the PIF investment, nor should we see them as our heroes. Like other countries they are simply investing in businesses as both mutually benefit. Staveley and the Reubens are the heroes here and I like to think that’s how this has been perceived by the fans also.

Having lived a few places growing up, I lived to Newcastle as a fan in 2008 for uni and stayed all the way until 2020, then moved to London during a pandemic. I’m all about timing.

He’s stuck around long enough for the Saudis to come in and sack him before it gets even more hostile. Played a blinder.

I don’t like Bruce at all but has he really pretended to be one of us? From the interviews I’ve seen he’s mentioned it being his boyhood club, basically admitting he couldn’t care less since becoming an adult.

As someone of minimal knowledge to this case here, I feel this whole ‘proving separation’ crap should really be irrelevant. Irrespective of Bin Salman’s role, we’d be owned by the state; just not directly. It’s the decision to make a whole state a ‘director’ I find weird though and I don’t see where the basis for this is for unless they wanted to make this really difficult for us. If it’s any relevance, I work in the fun anti-financial crime world and so I’m very familiar with the phrase ‘ultimate beneficial owner’ that I’ve seen used here in relation to what the PL wanted the KSA state to be. From what I’ve seen a country shouldn’t be the UBO. Maybe that’s all a bit irrelevant here but does seem interesting the PL makes it’s own idea of a UBO seemingly when there’s an awkward takeover situation for them.

While I agree on losing key players and would say only a few teams have significant depth, the back-up players of weaker teams look like far more competent Premier League players than our options like Gayle, Joelinton, Hendrick, Clark etc. Even Brighton, for example, were in a similar position to us last year and had nobody at ASM’s level, but I’d say far more reliable options across the field and on the bench when they beat us 3-0. The likes of Burnley and Southampton have several striker options even if they aren’t the best etc. Then even when we have a strong starting XI, it’s a pretty underwhelming selection of options off the bench at the best of times.