TheBrownBottle

Great sentiment until they unsettle their clients. No excuses for not paying the bills. We agreed to pay; we should pay

Excluding Champions League and LC semis (as they’re both home and away so redundant), and including Bromley in the FAC, since the takeover we’ve had nine home ties and nine away ties in the cups. So we aren’t ’always drawn at home’. You’d think they’d know this, seeing as we actually pulled them out of the cup away only last season. But I would understand if they’re desperate to forget that - I haven’t, though

Arsenal will (correctly) be favourites, but we’ve every chance of going through, especially with the second leg at home. Can’t wait tbh.

You think that Spurs having an income fully one third higher than Arsenal isn’t incredible financial performances? What in the last 15 years leads you to conclude that this would be completely expected? edit: in fact, ignore me. This will go round in circles I suspect.

No, it is still incredible. It isn’t hyperbole. Spurs are outperforming their own status in the capital, so of course it is incredible how far ahead they are of us. Arsenal are about £180m ahead on revenue, Spurs are around £360m ahead. About fifteen years ago we were roughly level pegging. It is incredible performance whatever the comparator.

Historically, Arsenal are London’s biggest and most successful club - but I absolutely take your point. It would be a hard argument to make that Spurs are bigger than either of them.

Jesus, not sure how many ways I have to explain this. Yes, being in London gives an economic advantage to clubs there. Yes, Spurs have always been a big club. Yes, Spurs being a big club from London means they’re likely to have a high turnover. But it does not explain how Spurs find themselves to be - by a comfortable margin - the richest club in London. Arsenal are bigger and more successful. Chelsea are the most successful English club of the 21st Century and have a much bigger worldwide fanbase. You argued that my use of the adjective ‘incredible’ when talking about Spurs’ financial performance was nonsense because it could be easily explained by them being in London. I point out that if this was the case then why are two more successful and arguably bigger clubs in London so far behind them financially.

I’m not moving the goalposts. You said that Spurs are in that financial position because they’re a big club in London. I pointed out that a bigger, more successful club in London which has similar crowds has a turnover closer to ours than Spurs. I was pointing out that ‘Spurs are in London and are big so that is the answer’ is flawed.

Their income is £200m more than Arsenal’s - who last I checked: - play in London - are probably the biggest club in the city - have won fucktons more than Spurs - also have a relatively new stadium That’s why.

Tbf I don’t like people being accused of being ‘happy clappers’ - I don’t like ‘personalising’ these sort of discussions. They’re only a fan’s view of a player - no-one’s view is any more valid than anyone else’s . Nowt wrong with disagreeing over an assessment of a player (nor of singing the lad’s praises). Almiron’s grafted his bollocks off on pretty much every occasion I’ve seen him play. I think he’s a good pro and clearly enjoys playing football (and for us). I sort of wish he’d just been sold in 2023 and left on a real high - it was one of the real success stories of the beginning of Howe’s tenure.

Given the choice, no-one would be selling any of our best players, and we’d be talking about adding a GK, RCB, RW and kicking on. PSR is causing the discussion, nothing else.

They were - 15 years is a long time. And again, Spurs were in the ‘big five’ of the PL breakaway, but by the mid-00s they absolutely were not financial heavyweights. It took Ashley for them to get past us in that regard - even when they had started finishing above us. That their revenue is now more than double ours is incredible, really.

I think selling in January would be shite timing especially with a LC SF waiting - unless Man City put an insane (£90m+) bid on the table, in which case we’d be daft not to. Seems unlikely to me. If we’re selling it should be in the summer (unless of course there is a couple of top players earmarked for Jan with the money).

Ok - yeah I wouldn’t be selling him for that tbf

No-one said it was a ‘trading miracle’. And you’re also mixing up league placing with financial status. Ipswich finished 5th in 2001 but they weren’t the fifth richest club. Spurs didnt finish 5th in 2005 btw. They hadn’t finished in the top six for 15 years by that point and were consistent bottom half finishers during that period. The rules mean that if we don’t sell, we don’t buy. If watching the club go stale is your preference, then I won’t be able to persuade you.

If we sold Bruno for £70m (not sure who’s saying we should accept £60-70m mind) then it would give the headroom to sign a £100m player if that’s what we chose to do.

This is exactly it. If Bruno was sold for £80m, you deduct his amortised original fee and that (plus his now gone wages) gives you your headroom. So that £50m + wages could potentially allow you to buy three £40m players for example.

I wasn’t necessarily thinking of Bale alone. I was thinking of Berbatov, Modric, Carrick, Walker, Keane, Eriksen. Spurs reached a European Cup Final after selling all of them, and are now London’s richest club. We have zero PSR headroom and that situation is not likely to improve without significant sales. I’m not looking to justify it, that’s simply a fact. The old days of raising funds by selling players is not what we’re looking at here. NUFC don’t need to make profits in order to fund new signings - this is why it isn’t a ‘Brighton’ model. It is just to clear accounting headroom. That is the miserable place that modern football financial governance leaves us in. If we don’t sell ‘big’ players, we won’t be signing anymore of them.

NUFC’s revenues were higher than Spurs in 2006. I’m not referring to league position. I’m talking about financial might. All clubs do this - there’s no reason to think that we won’t. It isn’t a sign of ambition in the present game to cling on to players and leave yourself in a position where you can’t sign anyone else. Again, no-one wants this to happen. But a new stadium (if it happens) is years away, revenues this season will be roughly what they were last season, and there doesn’t appear to be a bunch of reality-changing commercial deals hurtling down the tracks. So the only obvious place to increase revenues is through player sales. This isn’t Ashley-era NUFC - the financial headroom would all be used by the club. The club has already expressed that this is the reality of the situation. Wishful thinking isn’t going to change it. If NUFC are to get to where they’ve targeted, then this is a necessary evil.

We didn’t buy Bruno for £15m. The point isn’t to do what Brighton did and buy cheap players and sell for big profits. It’s to buy players like Bruno for big money and sell them for even bigger money. Bruno wasn’t cheap.

No, to buy more elite players a la Spurs rather than Brighton. That’s how Spurs broke into the top six. Speaking of Spurs, our income is less than half theirs - so we cannot compete with them financially, nor with any of the other big clubs - and we’re not growing at anything like the rate necessary to catch them at any point. The shortcut is to sell well and buy well. I think it is wishful thinking unless the rules change in the very near future - not one of the players we have can be said to be off limits.

Yep. I’ve zero bad feelings about the lad, and I can’t imagine that there will be many with truly negative feelings about him when he goes or when his name comes up in any future conversation. Ultimately, attacking players are usually judged on output, unless they are truly exceptional talents and provide moments which live forever in the memory (Ginola, HBA etc) - it is a harsh reality.

It’s hardly agenda-driven to state views on a player - does anyone actually hate Almiron? He’s a hard player to dislike never mind hate or have an agenda against. When I wrote headless chicken I was referring to his need for excellent coaching and intelligent players around him - without it he looks lost. And he was hardly transformative for Rafa - his output was effectively zero. He wasn’t a waste of money, but we overpaid for what he was and is. He absolutely wasn’t a bad signing, but he wasn’t a particularly good one either. He was ok - which on balance is probably closer to what Almiron has been for us. Pretty much ‘ok’.

Perhaps you’re right, though I do also think that some footballers can just have patches where everything they hit goes in. Almiron was playing with a complete confidence for a short period of time. I think Almiron’s greatest weakness is a lack of footballing intelligence; he might well be a genius off the pitch, but on it he’s one of the least intelligent attacking players I’ve ever seen in B&W (my time goes back to the late ‘80s, and I’m struggling to think of many first team regular attackers as lacking in that department as him. Obertan would be one). A proper ‘head down’ winger - which I think explains the pretty shocking ‘assist’ record. Really good forwards don’t play with their eyes down on the ball in the way that Almiron does - which is why I raised Bruno and Trippier (who do have superb vision and intelligence and both can pick a pass), who could neuter Almiron’s headless chicken running and find him in space. Once other teams sussed this, he returned to the mean.

If you include his best bits (which is the fair assessment) he hasn’t been very good. Excellent coaching and having two top players in peak form (Bruno and Trippier) working with him on the right is what it took to make him look like a good PL player for a few months.