magvicar

The topic was " would you have Rafa back." The majority consensus was no. It tells a bigger story than just Rafa being some top manager for us, because he simply wasn't.

No reason to bait. Just my opinion and as simple as that. You say he was shit but where does shit go in terms of managers? Top 6 or 8 or 10 in the premier league? Top 2 or 4 or 6 in the championship? Top 2 or 4 in league one? Top 2 in league two? If you're putting Bruce into the premier league top 6 category then yes, most people would assume he was shit. All I'm saying is, he wasn't shit and did fine with some clubs and not so fine with others but a shit manager is a manager that doesn't make it very far at all in the footballing world of professionals. I'm just putting it into context. I'm not pretending anything. I wasn't exactly overwhelmed when he was appointed and I'd guiess most fans weren't. But he was and I simply backed him rather than take the easier way and shoot at fish in a barrel. Of course. Bad news travels fast so any time he screws up at whetever club then the fans immediately dislike him and he becomes shit. That happens to most managers to be fair, even those that have actually made a good fist of it at some point. Football and fans come with fickleness and inability to be patient for too long when things don't go right. I wasn't in favour of it either.

Agreed. That's definitely how it appeared. I thought he did a decent job. He was a bit smug and all that but overall he did a decent job playing decent football with a decent squad of players he assembled on top of what he came into. I had no issue with him to be fair. We can go right down the rabbit hole with managers and who was this or that or the other. Even Alan Shearer as a manager for 9 games. Some fans will simply follow the majority rule on who to hate and others will have their own take on each manager which will differ. In the end, yes. At the start, he had a lot going for him. Yep he was cringe-worthy at times and more so towards his last season. Many professionals will have a better insight into Bruce the person than we as fans will. We obviously see so much but are generally outside looking in with opinions garnered from all kinds of situations that arise within the club. I think that started from the top and basically seeped down. Trying to run Newcastle United on a budget keeps the club alive among the elites but barely. Wants and control for a manager are or were generally offset by the wants and control of the hierarchy and generally issues do arise to the point of no going back. Bruce was massively under pressure and he simply did make all kinds of excuses until the pressure became too much and you could see the life being drained out of him.

I can well understand your bitterness with him. I wasn't exactly happy with the way things were going later on in his managerial time with us and you're right, his post match comments made me cringe as well. I was never a fan of him coming but I always back a manager and any player that comes into do a job, until I have something to pick at, which Bruce did eventually give plenty but so did many a manager of Newcastle. Up to now Eddie Howe is up there with the best I've seen at Newcastle and long may it continue.

He certainly wasn't anywhere near the best as a manager but he wasn't shit, otherwise he would never have managed at the levels he did. When he came to Newcastle he came with mixed emotions among the Newcastle fan base. If Bruce was shit then he has to be lumped into 90% of all managers into that category and it just isn't the case. He was a mixed bag for us and his tenure at the club was simply getting worse and worse and he did end up looking way below the standards he came in with, in my opinion.

All we have to hope for is in Eddie Howe being offered names by those who identify potentials and Eddie saying " yes I can work with him" and " I'd be delighted to have him onboard of you could clinch the deal." If one of those appears to be a player some of us think may be iffy then it has to simply come down to trusting in a manager who's done absolutely nothing for us to think against that trust. It's good to speculate though.

Wrong about what? What I think and about having an opinion? It's not really about who is wrong and who is right, it's about the individual feeling of things that happened and things that are happening now.

Agreed and I never said Rafa's football was all bad. I said it was tedious for most part. I had no issues with Rafa in the relegation season. He basically took on a very talented team that was basically ruined by a smug and inept manager who I rate as our worst manager ever just for the irritating smirking when he had to explain another pathetic performance. I don't blame Rafa for taking us down but I did expect him to keep us up with 10 games to tweak that talent enough to overcome some dire teams, including Sunderland. I loved that season in the championship. It was almost a breath of fresh air after the last smug manager. I can still remember the elation of winning it on the final day. I loved Rafa then, believe it or not and was well happy for him to carry on. This is where I started to get a bit disgruntled, as the season went on but towards the latter part we started to pick up points and finished 10th with football that had me scratching my head compared to how we started off earlier in that season. I just thought Rafa was stubborn in not playing a much better brand of offensive football and concentrating on the negative nearly cost us and would have if he'd never bit his lip and changed it up. I still had time for Rafa, though. Not sure about the bad luck. I'd say more reverting to type and being punished. Yep we did the same thing again. Struggled and then he went back into offensive mode and we got out of the relegation struggle. But for me we didn't need to get to that point. At first I agree and arguments can be had about whether Bruce was incompetent or he really did have to alter Rafa's set up. I'd say Bruce had a lot of mind to change to get to his own set up and that included the fans as well as the players. I'll say now it was the wrong appointment for two reasons. 1. He was replacing Rafa who was almost a messiah in some people's eyes but certainly a wanted manager in many people's eyes, which I think was more to do with his stance in football more than what he was offering us on the pitch...but that's just my own opinion. 2. Bruce came in as an ex Sunderland manager and a man who once turned us down, so on top of him replacing a sort of messiah, he walked into a bit of a cauldron. Now I'm not exactly defending him, I'm basically saying what I believe was the case and other people will see it their way. Most arguments against managers do come down to stats to close debates but stats don't always tell a full story as we all know. The thing is though most people will argue and offer up stats for almost anything in a debate so we have to accept that they do play a part when marrying up players or managers or results and so on. Was Bruce on par with Benitez? Obviously not if we want to look back in history of other clubs managed, but this isn't about looking back to other clubs it's what was happening at Newcastle with those two, being my focus and I'd say they were as close to par over their stints, in terms of results and performances but I would definitely say I enjoyed the football under Bruce much more than I did under Rafa for most part, premier league wise. Others may see it differently and that's fine by me. Yep, Rafa was more set up defence wise but we also struggled and got away with a lot under Rafa defensively. Who was the better tactician defensively? I'd say Rafa for sure but his man management seemed to come second to Bruce. Imagine being defensive and counter attack not just away to difficult teams but also at home. That was Benitez.

You're not going to change your mind on this specific argument against me, just as I won't.

From 13th to bottom it seems like a lottery with who will or won't get dragged down. This final few games will be more about who's up for the actual scrap rather than who can be tactically set up to play better football. It's a last throw of the dice for too many clubs. Dean Smith and Shakespeare? Who knows. It's simply a coin toss time for about 9 teams.

If it's too bad I'm sure Eddie and co will rest him. He's got a decent weeks rest so he might be ok to soldier on. He's definitely a massive cog in our side but football is all about adapting and we seem to be able to do that. But here's hoping Bruno shakes off the worst and finishes the season off.

Very harsh to be fair.

I'm not exactly defending Bruce anymore than I do with any other manager, including Benitez. I've given Benitez his kudos and also Bruce but also slated the pair of them. That goes for most other managers and generally this is how it works. Some people's messiah's aren't everyone's messiah's.

As I said, bypass what I say or even ignore me and you don't have to read it. The choice is entirely your choice.

Agreed, wrong place. I'll delete it.

Maybe don't read it.

Opinions are just that. If they aren't backed by facts they become opinionated debates.

It's pointless forcing players to play in the championship who want away. At best you get half hearted unhappy players and at worst you get a player value that massively diminishes. Whether you're a club that hands out cash on the hip or sells to buy it all comes down to the same thing in terms of getting players over the line. Of course if we sell players that do not want to go and would be beneficial to progress, then obviously it becomes a major issue, especially if we don't replace with like for like and as good if not better. Of course at times this has happened but generally players wanted out and there's only so much you can do when players want out. As I said there's more than one way of looking at this.

Why did we sell them? Was it to weaken the team or was it because those players wanted nothing to do with championship football? So we sell them and tell the manager to go and get players who will get us out of the championship. A massive gamble that paid off. It has to be looked at in more than just one way.

I have no issues with what you put up.

People are more than entitled to their opinion, even on what they think I may or may not be. I'm absolutely fine with it all.

Whatever floats your boat.

Why do I have to prove anything?

Aye most likely.

He spent money that was brought into the club. He was handed a good old pot of money to get deals done. If you want to buy a car with no cash but you have a gold watch that will cover the cost then it's still a buy for what the buy was if someone else offered cash. This net spend is just a smokescreen.