Allardyce simply isn't brave enough and is too obsessed with his platform.

[Baggio]

HTT, You seem to forget that this was a team that had looked like schoolkids last week against Liverpool. A team that was widely tipped to be the worst in the premier league on their performances this season. A team that very few people could actually name three players. A team ......

 

........that took us to the cleaners in every department last night. Including tactically.

 

I wonder if Billy Davies is taking their heart rates today and analyzing their urine?

 

So just because Liverpool put 6 past them, at Anfield, that means every team including us should be putting goals past them, even at Pride Park?

 

At some point, Derby were gonna get a win, and work out how to put 11 men behind the ball, and stop people playing - its just unfortunate it happened last night, and we didn't show much creativity either anyway.

 

Yes, we played badly, which may or may not be partly down to the international break, and having players away - but regardless, I cannot believe so many people are getting at Allardyce already, after ONE defeat!

 

So much for giving the new management time, eh??!!!!

 

Probably many the same people who were screaming because Ashley wasn't spunking millions on over-priced/over-paid 'trophy' or Galactico' signings.

 

 

 

We haven't looked impressive all season though apart from the first 45 minutes against Bolton.

 

Shit, long ball football with no pace or creativity in the side. Shocking.

[Guest jamesmartinsmith]

For all his obsession with a defensive looking midfield and Alan Smith wasted on the right and the purchase of yet another Dm in Faye, the creative and attacking side of our game has withered, in all seriousness teams like Derby will get flattenend by our supposed close rivals ie Spurs, Villa and Everton.

 

I see it more as the right wasted on Alan Smith.

Exactly. Milner should be on the right.

[Guest johnson293]

errr.....yes.

 

Sorry I can't get down to your level of expectations where you don't expect us to score against a team that is looking like a certainty for relegation. Perhaps if I did I wouldn't be so pissed off today and I'd just accept it and go along with those who are happy with a tenth or twelfth place finish.

 

A 10th or 12th finish would be an improvement on last season though wouldn't it?

 

Seriously though - While my expectation levels are are clearly not as high as yours, I'm at least realistic enough to realise that the club was obviously in a bad way, from boardroom down to pitch level, and even with new owners, new management and new players, it wasn't just gonna suddenly click.

 

Would it be better if more people were screaming for the managers head like you because we aren't top of the table already, looking down on the rest of the league, eh?

[Guest Sniffer]

Sorry.....could you point out where I've been screaming for the manager's head? I said he was tactically inept and his team selection last night was shite but where exactly was I shouting for his head?

[Guest Knightrider]

He wasn't tactically inept, he actually went into the game with the right game plan as everything he said before the match came true during the game from Derby, no, his players let him down last night and nothing else. They'll do well to play as bad as that again, and if they do, to survive this regime.

[Dan Gleebals]

9 new players

 

12 away on international duty

 

Barton, Emre, Duff, Viduka, Enrique - injured

 

Beye and Faye only been here two weeks

 

6th game, one defeat

 

Panic not.

 

Give him time and get behind the best mager and sqaud we have in years for fuck sake.  We are going to achieve fook all with the doom mongers on here. 

 

Fuck off and support the mackems ffs.

[Dokko]

HTT, You seem to forget that this was a team that had looked like schoolkids last week against Liverpool. A team that was widely tipped to be the worst in the premier league on their performances this season. A team that very few people could actually name three players. A team ......

 

........that took us to the cleaners in every department last night. Including tactically.

 

I wonder if Billy Davies is taking their heart rates today and analyzing their urine?

 

So just because Liverpool put 6 past them, at Anfield, that means every team including us should be putting goals past them, even at Pride Park?

 

At some point, Derby were gonna get a win, and work out how to put 11 men behind the ball, and stop people playing - its just unfortunate it happened last night, and we didn't show much creativity either anyway.

 

Yes, we played badly, which may or may not be partly down to the international break, and having players away - but regardless, I cannot believe so many people are getting at Allardyce already, after ONE defeat!

 

So much for giving the new management time, eh??!!!!

 

Probably many the same people who were screaming because Ashley wasn't spunking millions on over-priced/over-paid 'trophy' or Galactico' signings.

 

 

 

We haven't looked impressive all season though apart from the first 45 minutes against Bolton.

 

Shit, long ball football with no pace or creativity in the side. Shocking.

 

100% agreement.

 

On field were as bad as ever, i only hope the changes takes its time and he's having to make do (ie no creativity in mid) atm due to injuries and not being able to bring in the right players.

 

But my initial worries about Viduka & Smith seem to be very justified right now, i wish they weren't.

[Mick]

He wasn't tactically inept, he actually went into the game with the right game plan as everything he said before the match came true during the game from Derby, no, his players let him down last night and nothing else. They'll do well to play as bad as that again, and if they do, to survive this regime.

 

I don't know if he's tactically inept but he didn't get anything right last night.  Derby were crap for the first 20 to 30 minutes but we couldn't create anything and the longer the game went without us scoring the more confident they became.

 

I don't know why we played with the team we had out but I felt we had given the game away as soon as I saw the team.  If we'd scored first we would have won easily, we were set out wrong, I'm not even sure what the formation was that we played but it wasn't balanced as we had nobody on the right to support Taylor.

 

To blame the defeat on International football is laughable by Allardyce, Derby were crap, they were lacking confidence but we gave them it because we didn't have a go at them.  I don't know if anybody remembers when we beat Bolton 3-1 at home soon after Roeder became manager but we looked just like they did that day, we would have been beaten by as many goals as Bolton were that day if Derby had a better goal scorer.

[brummie]

I'm not going to comment on the way you played, as I was only half watching the match as I dozed on the sofa, and I don't really know most of your players well enough to pass an informed comment on that side of things, but when a new manager comes in, massively overhauls the playing staff, has just begun to impose his own way of doing things on the club, has just started organising the club and team his way (something most people agreed was a total mess last season), surely results like this are going to happen?

[Mick]

I'm not going to comment on the way you played, as I was only half watching the match as I dozed on the sofa, and I don't really know most of your players well enough to pass an informed comment on that side of things, but when a new manager comes in, massively overhauls the playing staff, has just begun to impose his own way of doing things on the club, has just started organising the club and team his way (something most people agreed was a total mess last season), surely results like this are going to happen?

 

I'm not too bothered about the result, I'm pissed off at the way it came about.  He's (Allardyce) done most things right but he shouldn't be immune to criticism when he gets it wrong, especially as it looks as if we're going to be the same long ball team that he left behind when he resigned at Bolton.

 

I’ve seen us dominate games and lose, at least you can take something from a game when it goes like that.

[Parky]

HTT, You seem to forget that this was a team that had looked like schoolkids last week against Liverpool. A team that was widely tipped to be the worst in the premier league on their performances this season. A team that very few people could actually name three players. A team ......

 

........that took us to the cleaners in every department last night. Including tactically.

 

I wonder if Billy Davies is taking their heart rates today and analyzing their urine?

 

So just because Liverpool put 6 past them, at Anfield, that means every team including us should be putting goals past them, even at Pride Park?

 

At some point, Derby were gonna get a win, and work out how to put 11 men behind the ball, and stop people playing - its just unfortunate it happened last night, and we didn't show much creativity either anyway.

 

Yes, we played badly, which may or may not be partly down to the international break, and having players away - but regardless, I cannot believe so many people are getting at Allardyce already, after ONE defeat!

 

So much for giving the new management time, eh??!!!!

 

Probably many the same people who were screaming because Ashley wasn't spunking millions on over-priced/over-paid 'trophy' or Galactico' signings.

 

 

 

It's not about giving "the manager time" etc..I was in full support of his appointment and still am.

 

It's about debating something that is we have seem periods of in previous games and against Derby was in full view...We're not even getting the basics right!

 

Lopsided formation, haphazard and panicky passing, no creativity, little midfield support for the strikers...Ameobi sauntering and flailing...I was so uptight I started feeling sick around 60min...

 

The manager isn't above criticism as long as it is level headed and his desicisions are always open to debate that is what makes  football special.

 

I didn't expect us to brush Derby aside as I knew they'd be playing for pride but I didn't expect to be butt fucked by them either.

[Shearergol]

24 points out of a possible 60 for Allardyce in 2007. Can't be arsed to compare it to other managers, but for those people saying he's trying to emulate Bolton, I hope he's trying to emulate them from previous years.

 

As some have mentioned, it's far far too early to start questioning whether or not he's the right man for the job, but I think most people could see that the midfield he put out last night was never going to create chances. I can't work out why he couldn't see it.

[Teasy]

I agree it's too early to judge Allardyce.

 

From the sound of it there are people thinking that he's gone home after the match thinking 'Hmm. We created almost nothing, didn't defend that well. Best do exactly the same next week'.

 

Well at half time he obviously thought "Hmm. We created almost nothing, didn't defend that well. Best do exactly the same in the second half", so what reason do we have to believe he'll do things differently next week?

 

If he really learned anything during the game then instead of bringing on a defensive midfielder and right back to replace a defensive midfielder and right back why didn't he actually change things?  Why not bring Beye on for Smith put Beye at right back and move Taylor to left back, which free's N'zogbia up to move to left wing and Milner over to his natural right wing position.  That match was crying out for a few creative players to stretch the play and give Martins and Ameobi more room up front.  If Allardyce couldn't see that during the game then I'm not overly confident he'll see it afterwards.

 

I'm not trying to be all doom and gloom and I'm not going to give up on Allardyce after only a few games either.  But I will say that so far I'm haven't been impressed and that game last night set some alarm bells ringing for me.  I just hope that once Enrique comes in N'Zogbia will be moved to left wing and Milner will go to right wing.  Idealy I'd like Allardyce to give up on this silly big striker little striker idea and also be less cautious in the center of the midfield' but I'm a lot less condifent of that happening..

[Parky]

I agree it's too early to judge Allardyce.

 

From the sound of it there are people thinking that he's gone home after the match thinking 'Hmm. We created almost nothing, didn't defend that well. Best do exactly the same next week'.

 

Well at half time he obviously thought "Hmm. We created almost nothing, didn't defend that well. Best do exactly the same in the second half", so what reason do we have to believe he'll do things differently next week?

 

If he really learned anything during the game then instead of bringing on a defensive midfielder and right back to replace a defensive midfielder and right back why didn't he actually change things?  Why not bring Beye on for Smith put Beye at right back and move Taylor to left back, which free's N'zogbia up to move to left wing and Milner over to his natural right wing position.  That match was crying out for a few creative players to stretch the play and give Martins and Ameobi more room up front.  If Allardyce couldn't see that during the game then I'm not overly confident he'll see it afterwards.

 

I'm not trying to be all doom and gloom and I'm not going to give up on Allardyce after only a few games either.  But I will say that so far I'm haven't been impressed and that game last night set some alarm bells ringing for me.  I just hope that once Enrique comes in N'Zogbia will be moved to left wing and Milner will go to right wing.  Idealy I'd like Allardyce to give up on this silly big striker little striker idea and also be less cautious in the center of the midfield' but I'm a lot less condifent of that happening..

 

Nearly everyone in the thread could see Zog had to be freed up....It does worry me also that the changes were so passive.

[BottledDog]

I'm still amazed there isn't at least one thread talking about BSA's comments recently, whether they be his international excuses, or his rant at Benitez.

[ohmelads]

Managers come out with excuses to protect themselves from the pressure of the media, the fans and the board, as well as to try and protect their players rather than heap further pressure on them. I think managers rarely say what they really feel after a defeat/poor performance, because to do so would be detrimental.

 

What has worried me about the performances so far and our squad is that Allardyce is building us up exactly the way he built up Bolton. His signings certainly suggest we're going down that road, with experience, height, physical stature and workrate seemingly top of his list of priorities. There is very little flair and a real lack of pace to stretch teams. The squad is surely better than last season, but it remains to be seen whether we have signed genuine talent to push us up a level or simply acquired an abundance of mediocrity to pad the squad out.

 

This was only one game, but it does force people to reassess the season thus far. The glass half full becomes the glass half empty as 8 points from 12 becomes 8 from 15. Reflecting on things from where we are now, it's been an average start in my view. We have had an extremely gentle start to the season and I expect things to get a lot tougher from here on in. Sam and his players spent the international break talking themselves up an awful lot. This time around I'd rather they kept their mouths shut and did the talking on the pitch.

[olliemort]

Managers come out with excuses to protect themselves from the pressure of the media, the fans and the board, as well as to try and protect their players rather than heap further pressure on them. I think managers rarely say what they really feel after a defeat/poor performance, because to do so would be detrimental.

 

What has worried me about the performances so far and our squad is that Allardyce is building us up exactly the way he built up Bolton. His signings certainly suggest we're going down that road, with experience, height, physical stature and workrate seemingly top of his list of priorities. There is very little flair and a real lack of pace to stretch teams. The squad is surely better than last season, but it remains to be seen whether we have signed genuine talent to push us up a level or simply acquired an abundance of mediocrity to pad the squad out.

 

This was only one game, but it does force people to reassess the season thus far. The glass half full becomes the glass half empty as 8 points from 12 becomes 8 from 15. Reflecting on things from where we are now, it's been an average start in my view. We have had an extremely gentle start to the season and I expect things to get a lot tougher from here on in. Sam and his players spent the international break talking themselves up an awful lot. This time around I'd rather they kept their mouths shut and did the talking on the pitch.

 

Well said.....especially talking on the pitch sick of every manager blaming injurys...bla bla fucking bla!We were playing fucking Derby like!

[BottledDog]

Managers come out with excuses to protect themselves from the pressure of the media, the fans and the board, as well as to try and protect their players rather than heap further pressure on them. I think managers rarely say what they really feel after a defeat/poor performance, because to do so would be detrimental.

 

What has worried me about the performances so far and our squad is that Allardyce is building us up exactly the way he built up Bolton. His signings certainly suggest we're going down that road, with experience, height, physical stature and workrate seemingly top of his list of priorities. There is very little flair and a real lack of pace to stretch teams. The squad is surely better than last season, but it remains to be seen whether we have signed genuine talent to push us up a level or simply acquired an abundance of mediocrity to pad the squad out.

 

This was only one game, but it does force people to reassess the season thus far. The glass half full becomes the glass half empty as 8 points from 12 becomes 8 from 15. Reflecting on things from where we are now, it's been an average start in my view. We have had an extremely gentle start to the season and I expect things to get a lot tougher from here on in. Sam and his players spent the international break talking themselves up an awful lot. This time around I'd rather they kept their mouths shut and did the talking on the pitch.

 

Well said.....especially talking on the pitch sick of every manager blaming injurys...bla bla fucking bla!We were playing fucking Derby like!

 

Olliemort, hate pick you up on this, but not two pages ago you seemed to take another stance entirely. Or at least were riling against those who found such excuses all too familiar.

 

We have had a very decent start but it still left a lot of questions. We had failed to create many (almost any) chances in our games so far this season, and this performance capped the lot. It is all very well giving someone time, and even the most ardent here I doubt are foolish enough to be wishing Sam the sack just yet, but can you not at least see that there is some basis to the growing concerns?

[olliemort]

Managers come out with excuses to protect themselves from the pressure of the media, the fans and the board, as well as to try and protect their players rather than heap further pressure on them. I think managers rarely say what they really feel after a defeat/poor performance, because to do so would be detrimental.

 

What has worried me about the performances so far and our squad is that Allardyce is building us up exactly the way he built up Bolton. His signings certainly suggest we're going down that road, with experience, height, physical stature and workrate seemingly top of his list of priorities. There is very little flair and a real lack of pace to stretch teams. The squad is surely better than last season, but it remains to be seen whether we have signed genuine talent to push us up a level or simply acquired an abundance of mediocrity to pad the squad out.

 

This was only one game, but it does force people to reassess the season thus far. The glass half full becomes the glass half empty as 8 points from 12 becomes 8 from 15. Reflecting on things from where we are now, it's been an average start in my view. We have had an extremely gentle start to the season and I expect things to get a lot tougher from here on in. Sam and his players spent the international break talking themselves up an awful lot. This time around I'd rather they kept their mouths shut and did the talking on the pitch.

 

Well said.....especially talking on the pitch sick of every manager blaming injurys...bla bla f****** bla!We were playing f****** Derby like!

 

Olliemort, hate pick you up on this, but not two pages ago you seemed to take another stance entirely. Or at least were riling against those who found such excuses all too familiar.

 

We have had a very decent start but it still left a lot of questions. We had failed to create many (almost any) chances in our games so far this season, and this performance capped the lot. It is all very well giving someone time, and even the most ardent here I doubt are foolish enough to be wishing Sam the sack just yet, but can you not at least see that there is some basis to the growing concerns?

2 pages ago I was saying to give Sam a chance now Im saying I hate it when we blame injurys for the result[especially since we were playing Derby],which in the past Roeder and Souness used to use alot!I dont blame Sam for the result,we had enough talent out there to beat Derby put I wasnt impressed when he blamed the injurys!

[Ridman]

2 pages ago I was saying to give Sam a chance now Im saying I hate it when we blame injurys for the result[especially since we were playing Derby],which in the past Roeder and Souness used to use alot!I dont blame Sam for the result,we had enough talent out there to beat Derby put I wasnt impressed when he blamed the injurys!

 

Agree, we're back top at http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php?SKEY=ccee9f866290a34359c56d05982b25c1 though.

Why didn't we sign another right winger, having sold Solano and Dyer is there any-one that can play on the right wing? (and don't even dare naming Smith)

[olliemort]

2 pages ago I was saying to give Sam a chance now Im saying I hate it when we blame injurys for the result[especially since we were playing Derby],which in the past Roeder and Souness used to use alot!I dont blame Sam for the result,we had enough talent out there to beat Derby put I wasnt impressed when he blamed the injurys!

 

Agree, we're back top at http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php?SKEY=ccee9f866290a34359c56d05982b25c1 though.

Why didn't we sign another right winger, having sold Solano and Dyer is there any-one that can play on the right wing? (and don't even dare naming Smith)

I honestly dont no why we didnt sign a right winger!Although I think Milner will do a good job once Zog is pushed back up to the wing.But we need to sign a quality right winger in January but can anyone think of any realistic target because I cant!

[merlin]

What happened to finishing above Arsenal?

 

That wasn't a Sam Allardyce performance, that was a Newcastle United performance and why myself and others in the prediction threads shied away from predicting a United victory.

 

Btw I hope the idiots from the Chronicle punters panel who predicted 5-0 and 3-0 wins are feeling rather silly today, f****** cretins.

 

Big Sam was appointed to eradicate the failures and ineptitude on the pitch that are synonymous with our club and have been for over a decade now and it will take a god damn lot longer than 6 games to get there, so stop your f****** whining you babies because the lads lost and didn't play well.

 

Err, that's what happens in football and that's what most certainly happens at Newcastle, or have you already forgotten Hereford, 5-1 at home to Birmingham last season and other all too frequent mishaps. However, I guarantee you we will not play as bad as that collectively again this season and that performances will improve and vastly so. And make no mistake about this: The manager will have not been happy with that performance as a team nor as individuals despite his comments to the media, and will be aiming to put that right. He is no Souness who actually did believe injuries were the problem and not his tactics, the players or any multitude of issues that can effect a football team and it's players.

 

The manager is doing the right thing, he's an experienced manager who built a foundation at Bolton from scratch, a successful one, and knows what needs to be done and in what order here at United for us to become a consistent and successful club and it has to start with the defence which is exactly what he's doing, via his signings, team lineup and tactics, even if it is at the cost of scoring and creating chances and even the odd loss.

 

And we all have to start buying into his way of thinking which is to reverse a decade's worth of "they can't defend" and "easy to beat" reputation that may as well be embroidered on the badge alongside the words "Newcastle United". This is no easy task and will take time.

 

He wants to create the same type of aura Bolton enjoyed so that teams see us as a tough nut to crack, a tough team to play against, a side that won't be easy to roll over. When he achieves that, which he will so long as pissy moaning fans don't panic and educate themselves up on this aspect of the plan that is to overhaul NUFC from top to bottom (which we all wanted, no?), then the goals and creativity will follow. Only we'll have the defence to back up the attack for once.

 

Of course, we can change our tactics and decide to focus on attack instead, and we'll score goals as a result. But these defeats away to your Derbies will still happen, only by bigger margins, and that defence we've been let down by time and time again (our real achilies heel), will still be liable to blow up on us.

 

The hardest challenge for any manager is finding the right balance, KK couldn't and nor could Sir Bobby. Greats like Fergie and Wenger still struggle with it from time to time and so does Benitez. The same applies with Allardyce and his Newcastle, we're looking for and needing that balance, like most teams. And it won't come in 6 games, so wake up to that fact. It will in time though and when it does we will be a formidable outfit. We may not always be as eye catching as we'd all like, but if we're picking up 3 points on a consistent basis and chalelnging for trophies, who bloody cares how it's achieved. We won't be as totally inept as we were under Souness and Roeder week in week out though and on that point, tactics never lost us the game last night, 11 piss poor performances did, while Derby you feel played to their max.

 

Stop f****** whinging people, we ARE heading in the right direction and start trusting a manager who in only a few months has done so much already and who let me remind you is vastly experienced and knows what he's doing. He hasn't even scratched the surface yet man and neither have Mort and Ashley.

 

The time for introspective meanderings on all things NUFC should come after 12 months and not 6 games. 

 

I agree with much of this.

 

We have got many years of 'soft touch' to remove from the opposition's association with Newcastle United, and unfortunately, we have both the Transfer Window to contend with as well as a completely new regime off the pitch ; in this situation it is impossible to do everything quickly, a)because the players aren't available to us and b) because it takes time for the guys at the top to have total confidence in the abilities of the manager - esp as they didn't appoint him...

 

People are underestimating just how far this club has fallen in 4 years - for a club of our size and potential, it is almost the equivalent of Leeds Utd's disaster, for we qualified for the CL 2 years' running.

There has been HUGE damage done to the club's reputation all around Europe, and players who we need and could have competed for 5 years ago will no longer be interested - even if Ashley was prepared to give Allardyce a big budget.

 

It is going to take time to sort it all out, and the unavailability of Barton in particular has drastically affected

our effectiveness in supporting the forwards from midfield ; of the other players who are out, I have doubts as to Emre's future with the club(AND his usefulness) - Duff WOULD be a huge bonus IF he were to be the player he was at Blackburn, but I have a bad feeling that those days are over...

 

As to any doubts over the manager, I think its far too soon to be condemning him yet - he is going to need time, maybe up to 3 years...having said that, there remain some awkward questions about some of his

decisions ; the introduction of Faye was non-productive at Derby, and this player looks too much like many others we have albeit even slower. You could interchange him for Butt or Geremi and you wouldn't notice the difference, when what we needed was some creativity brought into the side - OK, Faye was going to help keep Derby at bay, but he wasn't going to hurt them....

Perhaps Troisi should have been introduced - it was a late stage in the game, so he wouldn't have had to cope too much with Derby's aggression as they were tiring by then, and he does at least try to play the forward pass & kep possession.

If there is a criticism of Allardyce, it is that he can be too cautious at a stage of the match when we need

some positive qualities in the midfield..

 

I didn't like the appointment of Geremi as captain at the time, and nothing since has changed my mind - he is playing far too cautiously, and it looks to me as if the responsibilty is on his mind all the time - I would actually have preferred Barton to be given the job for a number of reasons, not least the fact that he will have to behave more responsibly.

 

The defeat was disappointing in the extreme, but it was the manner of it rather than the resuly which caused the alarm bells to ring with me ; we've all seen odd-goal defeats where the result has been undeserved, where the beaten team has hit the bar, forced the keeper into great saves, and missed loads of chances - this was NOT one of those games, and we went down without a whimper, but I said all this after the match on another thread ; the lack of creativity IS a major problem, but to lose to such a poor side so easily is very worrying.

 

If we get a similar performance in the next AWAY game - never mind against West Ham - the alarm bells WILL start ringing, but we would be wrong now to expect anything better than a Top 10 placing this season.

[Optimistic Nut]

This quote is unbelievable it really is...

 

"Newcastle finished eighth-bottom last season. We didn't go there (Derby) expecting to win. A draw would have been a good result".

[Parky]

Seems to me he's set his early stall out not to lose games and gambled on the early return and form of the likes of Duff, Barton and Emre.

[Mick]

This quote is unbelievable it really is...

 

"Newcastle finished eighth-bottom last season. We didn't go there (Derby) expecting to win. A draw would have been a good result".

 

Where's that quote from?