Bobby Robson's football nous compared to Allardyce's dogma

[TRon]

Recalling the side Sir Bob inherited from Gullitt, when his strikers were fit, he played Duncan Ferguson and Alan Shearer together and hit the ball long and high and, not surprisingly it worked. The point being it, wasn't great tactics or his preferred style, just making the best of what he had. The fact he built an even better side playing great football is testimony to his flexibility and ability to make the best of his resources. I don't really see the same ability to adapt from Allardyce. Just an insistence on playing a certain way whether we have the players to do it or not. TRhis season is a write off as a result as far as I'm concerned. I hope it's all worth it in the end.

[Robster]

Recalling the side Sir Bob inherited from Gullitt, when his strikers were fit, he played Duncan Ferguson and Alan Shearer together and hit the ball long and high and, not surprisingly it worked. The point being it, wasn't great tactics or his preferred style, just making the best of what he had. The fact he built an even better side playing great football is testimony to his flexibility and ability to make the best of his resources. I don't really see the same ability to adapt from Allardyce. Just an insistence on playing a certain way whether we have the players to do it or not. TRhis season is a write off as a result as far as I'm concerned. I hope it's all worth it in the end.

 

I think in August this year, having suffered the previous season under Roeder and the Souness bollocks prior to that, we would have all been wise to have put this season as a near write off anyway - on the assumption that come May 08, we could sit back and say "what a difference to this time last year". I still say we have to let things run until May and then take stock - although admittedly, it doesnt look like its going to be the most enjoyable time

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Personally I think Sam is trying to be too clever with his selctions/formations/tactics. Its like he is trying to prove he isn't just a 4-3-3 long ball man.

 

Unfortunately, whatever 'formation' he plays our only 'tactic' seems to be long ball to the forwards.

[Guest Rodimus Prime]

Recalling the side Sir Bob inherited from Gullitt, when his strikers were fit, he played Duncan Ferguson and Alan Shearer together and hit the ball long and high and, not surprisingly it worked. The point being it, wasn't great tactics or his preferred style, just making the best of what he had. The fact he built an even better side playing great football is testimony to his flexibility and ability to make the best of his resources. I don't really see the same ability to adapt from Allardyce. Just an insistence on playing a certain way whether we have the players to do it or not. TRhis season is a write off as a result as far as I'm concerned. I hope it's all worth it in the end.

 

12 games in and the season is over. Yeah, totally......

[Delima]

Recalling the side Sir Bob inherited from Gullitt, when his strikers were fit, he played Duncan Ferguson and Alan Shearer together and hit the ball long and high and, not surprisingly it worked. The point being it, wasn't great tactics or his preferred style, just making the best of what he had. The fact he built an even better side playing great football is testimony to his flexibility and ability to make the best of his resources. I don't really see the same ability to adapt from Allardyce. Just an insistence on playing a certain way whether we have the players to do it or not. TRhis season is a write off as a result as far as I'm concerned. I hope it's all worth it in the end.

 

"just making the best of what he had."

 

Have you forgotten what Allardyce had done in Bolton, with the resource available to him?

[TRon]

Recalling the side Sir Bob inherited from Gullitt, when his strikers were fit, he played Duncan Ferguson and Alan Shearer together and hit the ball long and high and, not surprisingly it worked. The point being it, wasn't great tactics or his preferred style, just making the best of what he had. The fact he built an even better side playing great football is testimony to his flexibility and ability to make the best of his resources. I don't really see the same ability to adapt from Allardyce. Just an insistence on playing a certain way whether we have the players to do it or not. TRhis season is a write off as a result as far as I'm concerned. I hope it's all worth it in the end.

 

I think in August this year, having suffered the previous season under Roeder and the Souness bollocks prior to that, we would have all been wise to have put this season as a near write off anyway - on the assumption that come May 08, we could sit back and say "what a difference to this time last year". I still say we have to let things run until May and then take stock - although admittedly, it doesnt look like its going to be the most enjoyable time

 

I don't mind writing a season off for long term gain, but the point is more related to getting the best out of what you have. Robson wasn't a long ball merchant but he was wise enough to play to his teams strengths until he got his own personnel. This is where I think Allardyce isn't really fulfilling expectations.

[Robster]

Recalling the side Sir Bob inherited from Gullitt, when his strikers were fit, he played Duncan Ferguson and Alan Shearer together and hit the ball long and high and, not surprisingly it worked. The point being it, wasn't great tactics or his preferred style, just making the best of what he had. The fact he built an even better side playing great football is testimony to his flexibility and ability to make the best of his resources. I don't really see the same ability to adapt from Allardyce. Just an insistence on playing a certain way whether we have the players to do it or not. TRhis season is a write off as a result as far as I'm concerned. I hope it's all worth it in the end.

 

I think in August this year, having suffered the previous season under Roeder and the Souness bollocks prior to that, we would have all been wise to have put this season as a near write off anyway - on the assumption that come May 08, we could sit back and say "what a difference to this time last year". I still say we have to let things run until May and then take stock - although admittedly, it doesnt look like its going to be the most enjoyable time

 

I don't mind writing a season off for long term gain, but the point is more related to getting the best out of what you have. Robson wasn't a long ball merchant but he was wise enough to play to his teams strengths until he got his own personnel. This is where I think Allardyce isn't really fulfilling expectations.

 

This might sound arrogant but maybe Sam is still coming to terms with working with a larger quantity of highly talented players.

He turned Kevin Davies, a very run of the mill player, into a fairly OK consistent premiership goalscorer.

Maybe Sam is coming to terms with handling players of Martins' and Owen's talent and that he has to actually work with the talent that they have as apposed to trying to make a player work on certain sides of him to game to make him appear less shit.

[fredbob]

Ahh, SBR...those were the days..

[TRon]

Recalling the side Sir Bob inherited from Gullitt, when his strikers were fit, he played Duncan Ferguson and Alan Shearer together and hit the ball long and high and, not surprisingly it worked. The point being it, wasn't great tactics or his preferred style, just making the best of what he had. The fact he built an even better side playing great football is testimony to his flexibility and ability to make the best of his resources. I don't really see the same ability to adapt from Allardyce. Just an insistence on playing a certain way whether we have the players to do it or not. TRhis season is a write off as a result as far as I'm concerned. I hope it's all worth it in the end.

 

"just making the best of what he had."

 

Have you forgotten what Allardyce had done in Bolton, with the resource available to him?

 

He's got far better resources here. Right now I'm not sure he's doing anything different to Graham Taylor at Watford or Harry Bassett at Wimbledon in bygone years.

[Baggio]

Recalling the side Sir Bob inherited from Gullitt, when his strikers were fit, he played Duncan Ferguson and Alan Shearer together and hit the ball long and high and, not surprisingly it worked. The point being it, wasn't great tactics or his preferred style, just making the best of what he had. The fact he built an even better side playing great football is testimony to his flexibility and ability to make the best of his resources. I don't really see the same ability to adapt from Allardyce. Just an insistence on playing a certain way whether we have the players to do it or not. TRhis season is a write off as a result as far as I'm concerned. I hope it's all worth it in the end.

 

"just making the best of what he had."

 

Have you forgotten what Allardyce had done in Bolton, with the resource available to him?

 

He's got far better resources here. Right now I'm not sure he's doing anything different to Graham Taylor at Watford or Harry Bassett at Wimbledon in bygone years.

 

It could be argued that Curbishley's doing a better job at West Ham than Allardyce is doing here, I know he's had longer in the job but he's always tried to get them playing decent football.

[Howaythelads]

Recalling the side Sir Bob inherited from Gullitt, when his strikers were fit, he played Duncan Ferguson and Alan Shearer together and hit the ball long and high and, not surprisingly it worked. The point being it, wasn't great tactics or his preferred style, just making the best of what he had. The fact he built an even better side playing great football is testimony to his flexibility and ability to make the best of his resources. I don't really see the same ability to adapt from Allardyce. Just an insistence on playing a certain way whether we have the players to do it or not. TRhis season is a write off as a result as far as I'm concerned. I hope it's all worth it in the end.

 

Good point and interesting to note that the main catalysts for the transformation of Robson's team was the introduction of 2 hated players (at least on this forum) in Laurent Robert and Craig Bellamy.

[Howaythelads]

Personally I think Sam is trying to be too clever with his selctions/formations/tactics. Its like he is trying to prove he isn't just a 4-3-3 long ball man.

 

Unfortunately, whatever 'formation' he plays our only 'tactic' seems to be long ball to the forwards.

 

[Martin Lol]

I always thought there would be a transitional stage as SA evolved the team/squad into his chosen style.  What I never thought was that he would try to get the Newcastle players playing in a style that would be totally alien to their talents.

 

At the time of his appointment the choices were go for an experienced Englishman (SA), a foreign coach (Jol) or a promising younger coach with lesser experience (Boothroyd).  With Allardyce I thought Newcastle had picked the right manand said so at the time, but with hindsight, maybe an opportunity was missed by not going for Boothroyd.

[Guest Alan Shearer 9]

We could of actually got a good manager as well Allardyce was the best we could have got with Freddy in charge

[jackyboy]

It puts our season in perspective when you look at the tables, We are only 6 points ahead of Fulham and Fulham have only won 2 games from 12 starts.  That's how good we are, and, soon we travel to Fulham

[NE5]

Recalling the side Sir Bob inherited from Gullitt, when his strikers were fit, he played Duncan Ferguson and Alan Shearer together and hit the ball long and high and, not surprisingly it worked. The point being it, wasn't great tactics or his preferred style, just making the best of what he had. The fact he built an even better side playing great football is testimony to his flexibility and ability to make the best of his resources. I don't really see the same ability to adapt from Allardyce. Just an insistence on playing a certain way whether we have the players to do it or not. TRhis season is a write off as a result as far as I'm concerned. I hope it's all worth it in the end.

 

Canny. I just hoped - and admittedly expected - some sign of progress from Allardyce this season. We know things needed changing in some ways, and we knew he would attempt to do it. He's now losing the plot a bit, through trying to be too clever, and buying too many defenders. Maybe the intensity of the job is surprising him now the focus has increased through poor performances, but he's got a testing time ahead of him.

 

If we had 2 strikers like Shearer and Ferguson on the books now, things would be very different to be fair, but if he's misjudged the players that were already at the club, then the buck stops with him

[Parky]

Recalling the side Sir Bob inherited from Gullitt, when his strikers were fit, he played Duncan Ferguson and Alan Shearer together and hit the ball long and high and, not surprisingly it worked. The point being it, wasn't great tactics or his preferred style, just making the best of what he had. The fact he built an even better side playing great football is testimony to his flexibility and ability to make the best of his resources. I don't really see the same ability to adapt from Allardyce. Just an insistence on playing a certain way whether we have the players to do it or not. TRhis season is a write off as a result as far as I'm concerned. I hope it's all worth it in the end.

 

Canny. I just hoped - and admittedly expected - some sign of progress from Allardyce this season. We know things needed changing in some ways, and we knew he would attempt to do it. He's now losing the plot a bit, through trying to be too clever, and buying too many defenders. Maybe the intensity of the job is surprising him now the focus has increased through poor performances, but he's got a testing time ahead of him.

 

If we had 2 strikers like Shearer and Ferguson on the books now, things would be very different to be fair, but if he's misjudged the players that were already at the club, then the buck stops with him

 

He tried his best to offload Owen or Martins...I don't think he wants either for his schemes.

[NE5]

Recalling the side Sir Bob inherited from Gullitt, when his strikers were fit, he played Duncan Ferguson and Alan Shearer together and hit the ball long and high and, not surprisingly it worked. The point being it, wasn't great tactics or his preferred style, just making the best of what he had. The fact he built an even better side playing great football is testimony to his flexibility and ability to make the best of his resources. I don't really see the same ability to adapt from Allardyce. Just an insistence on playing a certain way whether we have the players to do it or not. TRhis season is a write off as a result as far as I'm concerned. I hope it's all worth it in the end.

 

Canny. I just hoped - and admittedly expected - some sign of progress from Allardyce this season. We know things needed changing in some ways, and we knew he would attempt to do it. He's now losing the plot a bit, through trying to be too clever, and buying too many defenders. Maybe the intensity of the job is surprising him now the focus has increased through poor performances, but he's got a testing time ahead of him.

 

If we had 2 strikers like Shearer and Ferguson on the books now, things would be very different to be fair, but if he's misjudged the players that were already at the club, then the buck stops with him

 

He tried his best to offload Owen or Martins...I don't think he wants either for his schemes.

 

he'll be trying it again then [and personally I agree]. Do you think that he will have to sell before he buys ? Serious question Parky, and anyone else. Would you find that a slight worry ?

 

 

[Minhosa]

I think you could be correct Parky. For me, as has been mentioned by loads of other posters, Owen is almost undroppable.

 

I would've thought Allardyce would have wanted to revert to 4-3-3 almost immediately due to him knowing the system well and having proven success with it. I would've expected him to adopt it straight away to get us results and buy him time.

 

He could've worried about attractive football later.

 

It seems now he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. He's not got the personnel for a 4-3-3 (in his opinion and partly because of Owen's undroppability - new word - do you like it?) and yet he's not playing anywhere near good football.

 

I think he would've preferred Owen to have been sold and used Martins as a wide forward in a 4-3-3 - a la Diouf.

[NE5]

I think you could be correct Parky. For me, as has been mentioned by loads of other posters, Owen is almost undroppable.

 

I would've thought Allardyce would have wanted to revert to 4-3-3 almost immediately due to him knowing the system well and having proven success with it. I would've expected him to adopt it straight away to get us results and buy him time.

 

He could've worried about attractive football later.

 

It seems now he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. He's not got the personnel for a 4-3-3 (in his opinion and partly because of Owen's undroppability - new word - do you like it?) and yet he's not playing anywhere near good football.

 

I think he would've preferred Owen to have been sold and used Martins as a wide forward in a 4-3-3 - a la Diouf.

 

if he has to play square pegs in round holes - for now with the players he has - then playing zoggy wide right and Martins wide left is by far a better option than playing Milner, IMO, until we buy a player to replace Solano.

 

 

 

 

[Lotus]

One thing i expected is that the team would go out on the pitch with a bit of fire in their bellies, especially in away games. I thought that SA got Bolton to dominate other teams physically because he didn't have the resources to but a team of skillful players.

 

Looking at us so far though, apart from away to Bolton we haven't out muscled anybody and we haven't remotely utilised the talent in the squad either.

 

I think his plans have been hurt by injuries to Emre, Barton, Owen and Viduka and also a lack of form from Milner and Geremi, that's a big hole to fill. However, whatever team we put out, we neither 'get stuck in' nor do we play some decent football.

 

One thing i expected from Sam is that we wouldn't get turned over by tryers with limited talent but that's exactly what's happened. Watching West Ham with 10 players out injured run rampant against Derby seriously pissed me off.

 

We've got some decent attacking players but they're not really threatening the opposition. I think of it like boxing, you can cover up and bob and weave all you like but if you can't show your opponent you can punch then the f**ker just won't respect you  and will keep on coming forward.

We don't punch our weight and i expected at least that tbh.

[Minhosa]

I think you could be correct Parky. For me, as has been mentioned by loads of other posters, Owen is almost undroppable.

 

I would've thought Allardyce would have wanted to revert to 4-3-3 almost immediately due to him knowing the system well and having proven success with it. I would've expected him to adopt it straight away to get us results and buy him time.

 

He could've worried about attractive football later.

 

It seems now he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. He's not got the personnel for a 4-3-3 (in his opinion and partly because of Owen's undroppability - new word - do you like it?) and yet he's not playing anywhere near good football.

 

I think he would've preferred Owen to have been sold and used Martins as a wide forward in a 4-3-3 - a la Diouf.

 

if he has to play square pegs in round holes - for now with the players he has - then playing zoggy wide right and Martins wide left is by far a better option than playing Milner, IMO, until we buy a player to replace Solano.

 

 

I'm not sure NE5 - I like milner. I just think the quality of football is so poor that his choice of wingers is almost immaterial. We never play them into the game, we hardly ever have the full backs overlapping and we always seem to get the ball to the half way line and then punt it up top - almost always from Rozy or a full back.

 

The two first choice wingers at the minute (Jimmy and Zog) have very different qualities and the Zog has it in him to beat a man and whip in a cracking cross, whereas Milner's a bit more of a battler who can cut it but neither of them will make any impact until we get the ball to their feet and have some movement around them.

 

It's all a bit static at the minute which makes his decision to drop Beye/Enrique even more baffling to me. At least they seem able to overlap and get back into position when needed.

[BottledDog]

One thing i expected is that the team would go out on the pitch with a bit of fire in their bellies, especially in away games. I thought that SA got Bolton to dominate other teams physically because he didn't have the resources to but a team of skillful players.

 

Looking at us so far though, apart from away to Bolton we haven't out muscled anybody and we haven't remotely utilised the talent in the squad either.

 

I think his plans have been hurt by injuries to Emre, Barton, Owen and Viduka and also a lack of form from Milner and Geremi, that's a big hole to fill. However, whatever team we put out, we neither 'get stuck in' nor do we play some decent football.

 

One thing i expected from Sam is that we wouldn't get turned over by tryers with limited talent but that's exactly what's happened. Watching West Ham with 10 players out injured run rampant against Derby seriously pissed me off.

 

We've got some decent attacking players but they're not really threatening the opposition. I think of it like boxing, you can cover up and bob and weave all you like but if you can't show your opponent you can punch then the f**ker just won't respect you  and will keep on coming forward.

We don't punch our weight and i expected at least that tbh.

 

[Howaythelads]

I think you could be correct Parky. For me, as has been mentioned by loads of other posters, Owen is almost undroppable.

 

I would've thought Allardyce would have wanted to revert to 4-3-3 almost immediately due to him knowing the system well and having proven success with it. I would've expected him to adopt it straight away to get us results and buy him time.

 

He could've worried about attractive football later.

 

It seems now he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. He's not got the personnel for a 4-3-3 (in his opinion and partly because of Owen's undroppability - new word - do you like it?) and yet he's not playing anywhere near good football.

 

I think he would've preferred Owen to have been sold and used Martins as a wide forward in a 4-3-3 - a la Diouf.

 

if he has to play square pegs in round holes - for now with the players he has - then playing zoggy wide right and Martins wide left is by far a better option than playing Milner, IMO, until we buy a player to replace Solano.

 

 

I'm not sure NE5 - I like milner. I just think the quality of football is so poor that his choice of wingers is almost immaterial. We never play them into the game, we hardly ever have the full backs overlapping and we always seem to get the ball to the half way line and then punt it up top - almost always from Rozy or a full back.

 

The two first choice wingers at the minute (Jimmy and Zog) have very different qualities and the Zog has it in him to beat a man and whip in a cracking cross, whereas Milner's a bit more of a battler who can cut it but neither of them will make any impact until we get the ball to their feet and have some movement around them.

 

It's all a bit static at the minute which makes his decision to drop Beye/Enrique even more baffling to me. At least they seem able to overlap and get back into position when needed.

 

Can't see anything in Milner, tbh. He won't turn out good enough for what we want.

 

I'm hoping Duff returns and rediscovers some form. In that case, I'd go with Duff on the right and Zog on the left.

[TRon]

I mentioned Robson because he was willing and able to change his style according to the players he had available. Keegan was no tactician but he only really got found out at a higher level. At least he knew that when you are playing against dross like Sunderland, Reading, Derby and other relegation candidates, you don't need to worry too much about what they are going to do. When Keegan last went to Roker Park he let Sunderland's mediocre players huff and puff and then sat back and watched as superior players like Beardsly and Ginola picked them off like snipers.

 

Sam is going in against clogger teams and trying to out-clog them. We might not have Ginola now, but my opinion is that Sunderland would have been more worried if Enrique, Beye and Martins had been playing. They wouldn't have handled the extra pace too well.