Bobby Robson's football nous compared to Allardyce's dogma

[NE5]

I think you could be correct Parky. For me, as has been mentioned by loads of other posters, Owen is almost undroppable.

 

I would've thought Allardyce would have wanted to revert to 4-3-3 almost immediately due to him knowing the system well and having proven success with it. I would've expected him to adopt it straight away to get us results and buy him time.

 

He could've worried about attractive football later.

 

It seems now he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. He's not got the personnel for a 4-3-3 (in his opinion and partly because of Owen's undroppability - new word - do you like it?) and yet he's not playing anywhere near good football.

 

I think he would've preferred Owen to have been sold and used Martins as a wide forward in a 4-3-3 - a la Diouf.

 

if he has to play square pegs in round holes - for now with the players he has - then playing zoggy wide right and Martins wide left is by far a better option than playing Milner, IMO, until we buy a player to replace Solano.

 

 

I'm not sure NE5 - I like milner. I just think the quality of football is so poor that his choice of wingers is almost immaterial. We never play them into the game, we hardly ever have the full backs overlapping and we always seem to get the ball to the half way line and then punt it up top - almost always from Rozy or a full back.

 

The two first choice wingers at the minute (Jimmy and Zog) have very different qualities and the Zog has it in him to beat a man and whip in a cracking cross, whereas Milner's a bit more of a battler who can cut it but neither of them will make any impact until we get the ball to their feet and have some movement around them.

 

It's all a bit static at the minute which makes his decision to drop Beye/Enrique even more baffling to me. At least they seem able to overlap and get back into position when needed.

 

must admit, sometimes Milner has moments where I have hope for him. Most of my reservations concern his lack of pace - his attitude isn't in doubt, it's great - and its true that other players have overcame lack of pace. If he crossed the ball like Beckham and Solano then it would be different. I suppose he could work on this and become as good as it is possible for him to be.

 

He is more comfortably on the right, he might be better if we stuck with him there instead of changing him.

 

It's not really good that we have paid good money for enrique and dropped him already, at the expense of our one player in midfield with pace who is now playing left back. Its all wrong, its just frustrating.

 

 

[Parky]

Recalling the side Sir Bob inherited from Gullitt, when his strikers were fit, he played Duncan Ferguson and Alan Shearer together and hit the ball long and high and, not surprisingly it worked. The point being it, wasn't great tactics or his preferred style, just making the best of what he had. The fact he built an even better side playing great football is testimony to his flexibility and ability to make the best of his resources. I don't really see the same ability to adapt from Allardyce. Just an insistence on playing a certain way whether we have the players to do it or not. TRhis season is a write off as a result as far as I'm concerned. I hope it's all worth it in the end.

 

Canny. I just hoped - and admittedly expected - some sign of progress from Allardyce this season. We know things needed changing in some ways, and we knew he would attempt to do it. He's now losing the plot a bit, through trying to be too clever, and buying too many defenders. Maybe the intensity of the job is surprising him now the focus has increased through poor performances, but he's got a testing time ahead of him.

 

If we had 2 strikers like Shearer and Ferguson on the books now, things would be very different to be fair, but if he's misjudged the players that were already at the club, then the buck stops with him

 

He tried his best to offload Owen or Martins...I don't think he wants either for his schemes.

 

he'll be trying it again then [and personally I agree]. Do you think that he will have to sell before he buys ? Serious question Parky, and anyone else. Would you find that a slight worry ?

 

 

 

With hindsight we can see that the strategy seems to have been to reduce the debt and to some extent stabalise the side defensively. This seems to be the commonly accepted scenario by most and it is one I railed against in various threads where I whinged and bleeted about the need for central midfielders of 'another type' and especially one with creativity as his main asset, someone who can hit the forwards correctly and at the right time. Our forwards ain't all that bad after all.

 

I will say that looking back on the summer I think that became the strategy by default as there was some intital momentum (the trip to Spain etc) to sign bigger players and for whtever reason when this didn't materealise money was used for the debt. The standing of the club currently and to some extent SA's average profile around the football world won't help us initially to get the players that imo I believe Ashley wants.

 

At the time  Barton was being pushed as a poss answer to this 'issue' but his limited creative input is becoming clearer by the day (although I think overall he is a good buy). It is clear the midfield is populated by average players and one young player with a lot of potential.

 

If a big player becomes available there is I feel the will to get that kind of player, however on day to day stuff ie wages  and balancing books Mort is definately the type to set  sensible outcomes.

 

 

[Guest Li3nZ]

I mentioned Robson because he was willing and able to change his style according to the players he had available. Keegan was no tactician but he only really got found out at a higher level. At least he knew that when you are playing against dross like Sunderland, Reading, Derby and other relegation candidates, you don't need to worry too much about what they are going to do. When Keegan last went to Roker Park he let Sunderland's mediocre players huff and puff and then sat back and watched as superior players like Beardsly and Ginola picked them off like snipers.

 

Sam is going in against clogger teams and trying to out-clog them. We might not have Ginola now, but my opinion is that Sunderland would have been more worried if Enrique, Beye and Martins had been playing. They wouldn't have handled the extra pace too well.

 

You're going to have to shut up making so much sense, you will be getting everyone on here confused man.

 

I agree entirely with your point and I have been saying the same thing for a while now. I do believe in relationship to you point, the same can be applied to the England team / manager at the moment too. Newcastle are simply not playing to our strenghts and Allerdyce appears to be stubborn, would rather see the team change to adopt "his style" rather than him change his tacticts to suit our team (the right choice).

[Guest Knightrider]

To me Allardyce is experimenting a lot like he said he would do, he's getting the team to try out one or two things and will no doubt in time rule out what doesn't work, who doesn't do this or that and rule in what does and who fits in. I can see Owen, Martins, Milner, Geremi, Smith, Viduka and Emre as all long-term casualties of the rebuilding process, i.e. they'll be phased out, sold on or will become squad players - IF during the experimenting phase (now) they don't fit in which the signs are showing they aren't and wont. The manager likes to have pace and width on the flanks, ideally to the left and right of a mobile centre-forward, with one anchorman, a box to box midfielder and a playmaker in a central three in midfield, set up in a 4-3-3.

 

Looking at our current squad though he doesn't have many of these qualities or players so he's having to fit a lot of square pegs in round holes and tinker with his systems and formations a lot. Unlike some though I don't see this as a negative (although it can be frustrating). No, I see this as a positive that will stand us in good stead a year or so from now.

 

Despite all this tinkering and experimenting we are sitting in a healthy position in the table and if anyone thinks this current NUFC team and its performances will be the common denominator under Big Sam you'll be proved wrong in time, very wrong. This NUFC team couldn't be any different to his Bolton side with long balls and an emphasis on working hard the only real elements that can be linked to Bolton. The rest though, the disorganisation, the chopping and changing, the lack of width and pace, the immobility up front and the poor use of set play and strange tactics, are far removed from how he had Bolton lined up. Bolton were organised, tactically switched on, made full use of set plays, were full of pace, power, mobility and versatility and were consistent in lineup and indeed performances. Everything we currently aren't... yet!

 

Sam clearly still expects his players who are all or mostly technically very good and very experienced to be able to adjust and do his tinkering and system enough justice in the meantime to get him the points he knows will allow him the time to truly stamp his mark on things. And depending on how you view things, he's doing that in my opinion. I'm more than happy with our points tally and league position and fully expect us to keep improving gradually.

 

This improvement won't happen overnight though, it will take time and will come in stages. The manager has clearly and rightly tried to sort the defence out first which although still leaking goals, will only get stronger when they play more games together and get used to the manager's methods and tactics. The midfield and attack however are areas of the team I think Big Sam would rip up tomorrow and replace personnel if he could, most of them anyway.

 

Tinkering as he has done of course has came at a cost, especially to performances and certain individuals' games (Owen being the biggest example) but he's thinking ahead at all times and needs these early months to see what works, what doesn't and who he can use in the future, i.e. who will be of use to him not in November of 2007 but August 2008 and beyond.

 

That's the type of manager he is and while we would all like to see him keep things simple which would no doubt help us a lot NOW, will it help the man himself Next Season? That's what we have to remember. It is all very good and well sticking with a settled team in a fixed system and playing to simple tactics now, which I agree would bring in better results and performances, but I'm convinced the manager isn't too sure about a lot of our players and as a result simply needs to test them if you like before deciding on his NEXT MOVE (thinking ahead?). We all know how thorough he is so it stands to reason for such a methodical manager to give every player and every detail a good run before deciding what next.

 

I could understand the complaints and pessimism if we had a manager who can't see things and even if he does, fails to act, but that isn't the case. Every issue raised on here about the team the manager will be fully aware of and will in time look to rectify them, but in 12 games? Seriously one or two need to give their heads a shake and show some patience here.

 

As for comparisons to Sir Bobby, do people forget the 3-5-2 fixation, the one man up front away from home at times, the packing of midfield, the playing players out of position and the err, inconsistent performances and results? In time he did get it right though, well enough to give us satisfactory results and performances which accumulated in some form of achievement in league finishes and European adventures, and so will Big Sam if we all allow him the time needed but 12 games is just plain ridiculous to not only start judging and drawing definite conclusions from, but to start talking about sackings and new managers? Fucking hell... 

[Guest Knightrider]

Btw one of the manager's big strengths and for me a main attraction, is his bravery and balls. He isn't afraid to upset fans or go against the grain and he will do things his way. He is very much his own man and it is these things that will go a long way in determining how far we can go as a club because all successful clubs are run on that line from Rafa who refuses to bow down to demands to ditch his rotation policy, to Fergie who peddled players like Van Nistelrooy despite his quality and goal output all the way to Wenger who refused to ditch his football principles. Had all those managers taken leave of their own beliefs, convictions and so on they wouldn't be the managers they are and neither would Big Sam who don't forget is no mug and has shown at Bolton he knows what he's doing.

 

We can sit here all we like and pick at this and that but despite what some of us may think, we know nowt compared to Big Sam. Every week on here we chop and change our formations and starting lineups never mind tactics willy nilly, just like the manager ironically, but many think they can do a better job or that it's easy.

 

Aye right...

[TRon]

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's the type of manager he is and while we would all like to see him keep things simple which would no doubt help us a lot NOW, will it help the man himself Next Season? That's what we have to remember. It is all very good and well sticking with a settled team in a fixed system and playing to simple tactics now, which I agree would bring in better results and performances, but I'm convinced the manager isn't too sure about a lot of our players and as a result simply needs to test them if you like before deciding on his NEXT MOVE (thinking ahead?)....

 

 

Which is basically why I said after the Reading loss that I was writing this season off. Yes Robson made mistakes, which manager doesn't? But he was canny enough to use the weapons he had at his disposal even if it wasn't his preferred style, that was the point about Ferguson and Shearer. If experimenting means sending out teams scared of Derby then I don't subscribe to that plan. Derby were getting caned left and right before they played us and they have been getting caned ever since. Still, if playing shit teams at their own level is a form of training, I suppose we can all sit and twiddle our thumbs till next season.

 

 

 

 

[Mick]

The problem with Allardyce is that he keeps repeating his mistakes, so far he hasn't learned a thing.  If he was as clever as some think we'd have beat Derby, Reading and Sunderland yet we came away with one point.

 

At this stage it looks like he's stuck in a time capsule, he's the same manager who only a few months ago had a certain style of play at Bolton and can't adapt.  He's still got time to show that he's capable of adapting, I have seen nothing yet to suggest that he can move forward and work at a higher level than he's done in the past.

 

As for us knowing nowt when compared to Allardyce, I think most of us can see what he's doing wrong, he can't.  I don't have a problem with him trying things out, I do have a problem with his repeated negative tactics away from home against lesser opposition and I'm sure those tactics have started to rub off on the players during home games as they've lost confidence in themselves.

 

[NE5]

I'll be dismayed if they sack Allardyce, who I wanted for the job, [other than Wenger and one or two other obvious but unavailable managers], and doing that will just be repeating past mistakes ie Dalglish and possibly Gullit in particular is who I'm thinking of.

 

But as they said this morning on sky, the fans have a big pull, if the pressure builds it could be decisive. Unfortunately his selections have been baffling. He needs to steady his ship and fast, and start by putting players in their best positions and sticking where possible to his best team as much as he can.

 

We also haven't played any of the top teams yet, and are 12th in the table. This is not what most of us expected.

 

 

[midds]

I'll be dismayed if they sack Allardyce, who I wanted for the job, [other than Wenger and one or two other obvious but unavailable managers], and doing that will just be repeating past mistakes ie Dalglish and possibly Gullit in particular is who I'm thinking of.

 

But as they said this morning on sky, the fans have a big pull, if the pressure builds it could be decisive. Unfortunately his selections have been baffling. He needs to steady his ship and fast, and start by putting players in their best positions and sticking where possible to his best team as much as he can.

 

We also haven't played any of the top teams yet, and are 12th in the table. This is not what most of us expected.

 

 

 

That pretty much nails it tbh. He's being too cute and clever when picking his XI. If he just picked his preferred player for each position and stuck to it as much as possible he'd see an improvement. Starting with the back 4 ideally.

 

He also MUST find a way of accommodating Owen and bringing him into play more. If he gets service, he'll score goals as he's proved throughout his career so far. 

[Skirge]

Sam did well with Bolton by playing long ball football, there is nothing to suggest that he can be a sucsess here by playing another way, its early days still so lets just wait and see.

[Mick]

I'll be dismayed if they sack Allardyce, who I wanted for the job, [other than Wenger and one or two other obvious but unavailable managers], and doing that will just be repeating past mistakes ie Dalglish and possibly Gullit in particular is who I'm thinking of.

 

But as they said this morning on sky, the fans have a big pull, if the pressure builds it could be decisive. Unfortunately his selections have been baffling. He needs to steady his ship and fast, and start by putting players in their best positions and sticking where possible to his best team as much as he can.

 

We also haven't played any of the top teams yet, and are 12th in the table. This is not what most of us expected.

 

 

 

I wouldn't like to see him sacked and doubt that he'll be sacked but I guess it could happen if things went pear shaped.  I'm not too happy with him but I doubt fans are going to be shouting for his head any time soon.

 

Dalglish and Gullit were probably rightly sacked because of what they did to the club, they might have turned things around but we'll never know.  Dalglish wrecked the team that Keegan had built instead of tweaking it and Gullit put his ego before the club with his handling of Shearer up to a point and also Rob Lee.  I think Shearer probably had an ego to match Gullits but Rob Lee never struck me as being anything other than a perfect professional who just wanted to play for the club.

 

Do you think a league position would justify his sacking? 

[olliemort]

It puts our season in perspective when you look at the tables, We are only 6 points ahead of Fulham and Fulham have only won 2 games from 12 starts.  That's how good we are, and, soon we travel to Fulham

Well we are only 6 points behind Liverpool who are in 4th and we are playing them at home next!It has being a steady enough start so far!

[Mick]

Sam did well with Bolton by playing long ball football, there is nothing to suggest that he can be a sucsess here by playing another way, its early days still so lets just wait and see.

 

So Allardyce is basically a one trick pony who can't adapt?

[Guest Knightrider]

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's the type of manager he is and while we would all like to see him keep things simple which would no doubt help us a lot NOW, will it help the man himself Next Season? That's what we have to remember. It is all very good and well sticking with a settled team in a fixed system and playing to simple tactics now, which I agree would bring in better results and performances, but I'm convinced the manager isn't too sure about a lot of our players and as a result simply needs to test them if you like before deciding on his NEXT MOVE (thinking ahead?)....

 

 

Which is basically why I said after the Reading loss that I was writing this season off. Yes Robson made mistakes, which manager doesn't? But he was canny enough to use the weapons he had at his disposal even if it wasn't his preferred style, that was the point about Ferguson and Shearer. If experimenting means sending out teams scared of Derby then I don't subscribe to that plan. Derby were getting caned left and right before they played us and they have been getting caned ever since. Still, if playing shit teams at their own level is a form of training, I suppose we can all sit and twiddle our thumbs till next season.

 

 

 

 

 

You have to appreciate the circumstances to understand things better. Sir Bobby had to use the weapons he had at his disposal even if it wasn't his preferred style (in your words) because his remit was a very simple and stark one; to keep the club up. Big Sam's is very different. He is charged with rebuilding the entire club from top to bottom on and off the field and will no doubt be working on a time frame of years and not months as Sir Bobby was. In short Big Sam has far more leeway and time on his hands in that respect and can afford to experiment and try out new things because this season isn't the be all and end all as it was for Sir Bobby and his team.

 

You read Sir Bobby's book however, and after he knew we'd be in no danger of staying up, he talked about wishing he'd changed things around sooner (i.e. prepare for life after staying up) as it would have brought about progression much quicker. As it transpired his second season was a backwards step where we failed to progress at all. It took good money and bravery in the transfer market and a much underestimated InterToto cup run to whip things into shape the following season.

 

In short it took Sir Bobby 2 full seasons to work out what was needed, what wasn't, who was good enough and who wasn't which in his own hindsight, could have been achieved in just over a year, had he decided to use the season after he kept us up as an experimenting season.

 

I wouldn't read too much into the Derby comments btw, about going there for a draw. He'll have set the side up to nick a win, but settling for a draw if that wasn't to be, of course we lost but lessons will be learned. There is nowt wrong with such tactics in my eyes either, there is lots wrong with his personnel though. After all his tactics worked at Bolton and are proven up and down the country as most sides if not your Arsenals and Man Utd go to tricky away games aiming to nick a win.

 

I wouldn't write the season off either, that's just silly. For me I'm not too bothered about performances or final league positions, I am however bothered about this season being more than just a "lets get through it as quick as we can" affair, which if we were to write it off as you have done, would be the case. The manager though thankfully will not be thinking like that, he'll be building towards something. Next season and a changed club and team.

 

Why does everything have to be so instant in football, so much about the now? When did we all become short sighted pessimists too? Write the season off? A lot can happen between now and May and will.

 

Each to their own though...

[Guest Knightrider]

I'll be dismayed if they sack Allardyce, who I wanted for the job, [other than Wenger and one or two other obvious but unavailable managers], and doing that will just be repeating past mistakes ie Dalglish and possibly Gullit in particular is who I'm thinking of.

 

Exactly. Replacing Sam now would mean a return to the vicious circle of hiring a new man, ripping up things at an expense, and rebuilding. And what if this new man didn't have us top after 12 games? Repeat the process? It's daft all this talk of pressure and sackings, although expected these days following Newcastle sadly.Everything we asked for in the summer we have got or are getting. Can people not just fucking put up with a few iffy performances and the odd dropped points for just once? Stone me!

[Skirge]

Sam did well with Bolton by playing long ball football, there is nothing to suggest that he can be a sucsess here by playing another way, its early days still so lets just wait and see.

 

So Allardyce is basically a one trick pony who can't adapt?

I dunno, is he?

 

At the moment its starting to look that way, with Viduka playing we missed out the midfield and tried banging long balls up to him hoping he would hold it up and play others in. Emre had a mare because we bypassed him all the time, he needs the ball to create something.

 

Has Sam had sucsess playing any other style of football?

 

[TRon]

I'll be dismayed if they sack Allardyce, who I wanted for the job, [other than Wenger and one or two other obvious but unavailable managers], and doing that will just be repeating past mistakes ie Dalglish and possibly Gullit in particular is who I'm thinking of.

 

But as they said this morning on sky, the fans have a big pull, if the pressure builds it could be decisive. Unfortunately his selections have been baffling. He needs to steady his ship and fast, and start by putting players in their best positions and sticking where possible to his best team as much as he can.

 

We also haven't played any of the top teams yet, and are 12th in the table. This is not what most of us expected.

 

 

 

It's worth pointing out that although I am critical of him, I admire much of what he has brought to this club in terms of discipline and methods. I was a big advocate of his when we were looking for a new manager and only a fool would sack a manager before he has had time to mould his team.

 

Even so, I'm now doubtful that Allardyce is capable of making us anything other than a Bolton MkII. In which case I doubt he'll ever get us serious contenders for Champions league football because while we'll get some good results, we won't be adventurous enough to beat the crap sides, something Liverpool also struggle with due to their mindset.

[The College Dropout]

I think you could be correct Parky. For me, as has been mentioned by loads of other posters, Owen is almost undroppable.

 

I would've thought Allardyce would have wanted to revert to 4-3-3 almost immediately due to him knowing the system well and having proven success with it. I would've expected him to adopt it straight away to get us results and buy him time.

 

He could've worried about attractive football later.

 

It seems now he's stuck between a rock and a hard place. He's not got the personnel for a 4-3-3 (in his opinion and partly because of Owen's undroppability - new word - do you like it?) and yet he's not playing anywhere near good football.

 

I think he would've preferred Owen to have been sold and used Martins as a wide forward in a 4-3-3 - a la Diouf.

 

if he has to play square pegs in round holes - for now with the players he has - then playing zoggy wide right and Martins wide left is by far a better option than playing Milner, IMO, until we buy a player to replace Solano.

 

 

I'm not sure NE5 - I like milner. I just think the quality of football is so poor that his choice of wingers is almost immaterial. We never play them into the game, we hardly ever have the full backs overlapping and we always seem to get the ball to the half way line and then punt it up top - almost always from Rozy or a full back.

 

The two first choice wingers at the minute (Jimmy and Zog) have very different qualities and the Zog has it in him to beat a man and whip in a cracking cross, whereas Milner's a bit more of a battler who can cut it but neither of them will make any impact until we get the ball to their feet and have some movement around them.

 

It's all a bit static at the minute which makes his decision to drop Beye/Enrique even more baffling to me. At least they seem able to overlap and get back into position when needed.

 

Don't think he fancies Martins to much either

 

I don't think Viduka is suited to a 4-3-3 either. Not a battering ram type player.

[Guest Knightrider]

The problem with Allardyce is that he keeps repeating his mistakes, so far he hasn't learned a thing.  If he was as clever as some think we'd have beat Derby, Reading and Sunderland yet we came away with one point.

 

Is he repeating the mistakes or are his players? It's a catch 22 situation. He will have every right and every justification to expect players earning thousands a week, experienced players, to perform to a satisfactory level and produce the right results. The players are good enough, but the team itself isn't which is where the manager comes in, it's his job to make sure the team is good enough but it takes more than 12 games Mick. In football everything is about conditioning and drilling. It takes at least 12 months for even some basic things to sink in, mistakes to be rectified etc. Now if we are making the same mistakes this time next year, I'll be worrying too. And also, it isn't as if we're making these mistakes every single time we take to the pitch, is it?

 

At this stage it looks like he's stuck in a time capsule, he's the same manager who only a few months ago had a certain style of play at Bolton and can't adapt.  He's still got time to show that he's capable of adapting, I have seen nothing yet to suggest that he can move forward and work at a higher level than he's done in the past.

 

Mick, we are nothing like Bolton, more is the pity. Is he trying to make us like them? Maybe, maybe not, if he is, it's clear he hasn't gotten there yet, but I'm sure he will if that is indeed his intention. I myself don't think it is, which could explain why he's experimenting a lot and deploying all these weird tactics and changes. Bolton were Bolton. We are, well, I can't quite fathom what we are. Perhaps he's struggling to create a whole new way for himself and us and needs to revert back to type. I'm not going to bash him about this though, I sometimes feel we don't appreciate just how big or rather demanding a job this is. It's a hard job Mick where the line between things is often very thin or clouded.

 

As for us knowing nowt when compared to Allardyce, I think most of us can see what he's doing wrong, he can't.  I don't have a problem with him trying things out, I do have a problem with his repeated negative tactics away from home against lesser opposition and I'm sure those tactics have started to rub off on the players during home games as they've lost confidence in themselves.

 

 

Can we? Fans change their lineups, tactics and views on players and this and that on a weekly basis, often going from one extreme to another. Any idiot can pick the club's best 11 individuals, plonk them into 4-4-2 and say there you go, win some games, doesn't work like that though and this again gets back to not understanding or underestimating how difficult managing NUFC really is. Anyway, he's not the first manager who has fans quizzing his lineup, tactics and whatnot, go on any rival MB and swap Allardyce for Wenger, Fergie, Redknapp and whoever else. Lets get to the crux of things though, if we were winning every week people wouldn't give a shite, we aren't so everyone is looking to find the answer to why.

 

Well I'll tell you why, because we're not a very good team and people need to realise this and then accept it. We are about even and punching our weight. I look at our team and manager and at least 6 players just don't fit, regardless of their ability, Owen being the most obvious example.

[Baggio]

HTT on a one man mission to paper over the cracks.

 

Fair play to you.

[Guest Knightrider]

HTT on a one man mission to paper over the cracks.

 

Fair play to you.

 

Cracks I've acknowledged? How is that papering over them?

 

You can quote me on the following:

 

We've played shite this season in general, Sam has made many mistakes and this is clearly not good enough long-term and needs addressed sooner rather than later.

 

How's that?

[NE5]

I'll be dismayed if they sack Allardyce, who I wanted for the job, [other than Wenger and one or two other obvious but unavailable managers], and doing that will just be repeating past mistakes ie Dalglish and possibly Gullit in particular is who I'm thinking of.

 

But as they said this morning on sky, the fans have a big pull, if the pressure builds it could be decisive. Unfortunately his selections have been baffling. He needs to steady his ship and fast, and start by putting players in their best positions and sticking where possible to his best team as much as he can.

 

We also haven't played any of the top teams yet, and are 12th in the table. This is not what most of us expected.

 

 

 

I wouldn't like to see him sacked and doubt that he'll be sacked but I guess it could happen if things went pear shaped.  I'm not too happy with him but I doubt fans are going to be shouting for his head any time soon.

 

Dalglish and Gullit were probably rightly sacked because of what they did to the club, they might have turned things around but we'll never know.  Dalglish wrecked the team that Keegan had built instead of tweaking it and Gullit put his ego before the club with his handling of Shearer up to a point and also Rob Lee.  I think Shearer probably had an ego to match Gullits but Rob Lee never struck me as being anything other than a perfect professional who just wanted to play for the club.

 

Do you think a league position would justify his sacking? 

 

Dalglish and Gullit were appointed because we tried to repeat the success they had enjoyed at previous clubs. I know they got it wrong, and it seemed the only option at the time was to sack them accordingly, but that is exactly what Allardyce seems to be heading for just now. So I don't think we should do it again, unless it really becomes a serious situation. I suppose you could say the dismantling of Keegans team was a serious situation. What can you do other than appoint someone with a good backround and give him time ?

 

I wouldn't sack him on the basis of our league position this season, I just want to see signs that he is heading in the right direction.

 

Fook knows where you get the patience from when you get to our age, but you have no choice !!!!!!

 

Agree re Rob Lee btw.

 

 

[The College Dropout]

If Owen doesn't fit. Don't play him.

 

If your unsure about Viduka/Geremi in the short and medium term, don't sign them.

 

It's the whole changing the fullbacks that makes me think Sam is as clueless as me. You sign 2 players yet you play 2 players in their wrong positions instead.

 

It's like he has no plan or no idea of what he wants.

 

And to add insult to injury the football is dire.

[NE5]

HTT on a one man mission to paper over the cracks.

 

Fair play to you.

 

not quite. You're wrong again

 

 

[Baggio]

Sam did well with Bolton by playing long ball football, there is nothing to suggest that he can be a sucsess here by playing another way, its early days still so lets just wait and see.

 

So Allardyce is basically a one trick pony who can't adapt?

 

It's starting to look that way and all the dietitians and heart rate monitors won't make much of a difference to that.