Why are there no decent English managers?

[johnnypd]

I wonder what impact managing abroad had on Robson, and if Chris Coleman will benefit in a similar way.

 

didn't seem to help graeme souness!  roy hodgson has made a decent fist of it but he flits between jobs quite quickly, the nature of a nomad i suppose.

[fredbob]

I think the problem lies in the type of players that england are producing, the english game is a physically dominant game and technical attributions arent encouraged at a grassroot level, how many times do you hear "get stuck into them nice and early, show em what its about" at a junior level football match. Well its this coaching method in my opinion whcih is dominant in the english league, in another country, footballers are taught techinically and so the coaching and management is just as techinal.

 

The managers at present will of been brought up on football the way it was played 20 odd years ago, and technical coaching was non existent then, its taken the likes of SA so many years to catch up with the like of mourhino and wenger in terms of scientific coaching, in essecnce, europe has had a 10-15 year headstart on management techniques and english managers are only just starting to catch up.

[wacko]

I think the problem lies in the type of players that england are producing, the english game is a physically dominant game and technical attributions arent encouraged at a grassroot level, how many times do you hear "get stuck into them nice and early, show em what its about" at a junior level football match. Well its this coaching method in my opinion whcih is dominant in the english league, in another country, footballers are taught techinically and so the coaching and management is just as techinal.

 

The managers at present will of been brought up on football the way it was played 20 odd years ago, and technical coaching was non existent then, its taken the likes of SA so many years to catch up with the like of mourhino and wenger in terms of scientific coaching, in essecnce, europe has had a 10-15 year headstart on management techniques and english managers are only just starting to catch up.

That certainly applies to English managers, who have traditionally relied on speed and brawn as a substitute for tactics and skill, which is why they always fall flat on their faces in Europe. Even Fergie, who's dominated English footie for a decade or more, hasn't matched what Benitez has achieved in the last three years in European competition because even he wants to play the naive, let's-stand-toe-to-toe-and-duke-it-out game, which is oh-so successful in Britain but utterly inadequate in international  football.

 

However, the same simply cannot be said of England players. Sure, the vast majority of English players are big, fast, strong cloggers who make up for their lack of skill with physical attributes, but that is absolutely not the case with England's first 11. Those guys are very accomplished footballers.

[Rob W]

Most english mangers are good players who move up - as players are some of the stupidest people on the planet it means most English managers have an IQ of  around 80

 

They have no education and bugger all training, especially in things like finance, man managment etc etc

 

When they start to fail and flail the fans turn on them and they are out

 

A lot of the Yuropeans are better educated and certainly better trained

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Knightrider]

It's a catch-22 thing. Someone like Curbishley for example will never ever get to test himself at a big club so will always be an average to decent manager where as on the continent managers get a chance regularly. Look at Madrid, Barca et al they gave jobs to untried managers really, Inter gave their job to Manchini too. Could you imagine Man Utd giving the job to Paul Ince?

 

Another problem is our players rarely venture abroad so their experiences are limited and with it knowledge and ideas when they do become managers.

 

I also agree with Fredbob's views.

[GG]

You dont seriously think those manages should be given a job by the top 4??

 

None of them have proved anything at all.

Maybe not the top 4 but certainly teams in the top 10.

 

 

Again difficult to agree when there are better managers who would do a better job.

 

I would be furious if one of them was given our job.

To be honest I'd be pretty content with Boothroyd as our manager, probobly Shearer as well. If Wise and Ince get thier sides promoted this year then I think any doubts I have about them would go.

 

You think Allardyce is tactically inept? Try having Boothroyd as a manager, simply mind-boggling how frustrating the tactics are. Even so, we're not doing too badly, but our form is scarily bad at the moment.

[Optimistic Nut]

Paul Jewell sums up what's wrong with English managers. When he left Wigan, he should have been off to countries like Brazil, Italy, France, Spain for a year to pick up tips from abroad. I remember seeing somewhere that in the late 70s, Sven Goran Eriksson spent a week or two on the Ipswich training ground seeing how Bobby Robson did things there. No doubt he'd have done this all over Europe, picking up things as he goes along. What does Jewell do? Goes to Derby within 3 months where he has no hope of doing anything of note. Kudos to Chris Coleman for going out there, maybe one or two others should try the same.

[wacko]

Another problem is our players rarely venture abroad so their experiences are limited and with it knowledge and ideas when they do become managers.

The managers, too. SBR managed abroad, Chris Coleman, and Souness had a spell abroad, too, didn't he? Is there anyone else?

I remember seeing somewhere that in the late 70s, Sven Goran Eriksson spent a week or two on the Ipswich training ground seeing how Bobby Robson did things there. No doubt he'd have done this all over Europe, picking up things as he goes along.

I think Benitez did the same and took a year's sabbatical to go see how the best foreign managers did things.

 

[juniatmoko]

why?well... mostly won't came out from their shell!

[Optimistic Nut]

Another problem is our players rarely venture abroad so their experiences are limited and with it knowledge and ideas when they do become managers.

The managers, too. SBR managed abroad, Chris Coleman, and Souness had a spell abroad, too, didn't he? Is there anyone else?

I remember seeing somewhere that in the late 70s, Sven Goran Eriksson spent a week or two on the Ipswich training ground seeing how Bobby Robson did things there. No doubt he'd have done this all over Europe, picking up things as he goes along.

I think Benitez did the same and took a year's sabbatical to go see how the best foreign managers did things.

 

 

Toshack & Hodgson.

[Optimistic Nut]

Oh, and Platt spent a very short time as Sampdoria coach.

[GM]

Toshack's Welsh.

[Optimistic Nut]

So is Coleman, and Souness is Scottish so assumed we were just talking about British coaches here.

[ElDiablo]

You dont seriously think those manages should be given a job by the top 4??

 

None of them have proved anything at all.

Maybe not the top 4 but certainly teams in the top 10.

 

 

Again difficult to agree when there are better managers who would do a better job.

 

I would be furious if one of them was given our job.

To be honest I'd be pretty content with Boothroyd as our manager, probobly Shearer as well. If Wise and Ince get thier sides promoted this year then I think any doubts I have about them would go.

 

You think Allardyce is tactically inept? Try having Boothroyd as a manager, simply mind-boggling how frustrating the tactics are. Even so, we're not doing too badly, but our form is scarily bad at the moment.

 

They better not not get promoted. 

[GM]

So is Coleman, and Souness is Scottish so assumed we were just talking about British coaches here.

 

Fair enough. It would be better to broaden the discussion anyway. And nobody's mentioned O'Neill yet?

[Guest SeattleToon]

Another problem is our players rarely venture abroad so their experiences are limited and with it knowledge and ideas when they do become managers.

 

I think Coach HTT & Wacko hit it right on the nose....English players and coaches spend very little time playing or coaching in other countries, which greatly reduces their ability to adapt new tactitcal schemes and training methods.

 

Aside from Owen, Beckham, & McManaman at Real Madrid and Owen Hargreaves at Bayern Munich, no top Engilsh players have been successful outside of England since Platt & Gazza played in Italy.

[Wullie]

Another problem is our players rarely venture abroad so their experiences are limited and with it knowledge and ideas when they do become managers.

 

I think Coach HTT & Wacko hit it right on the nose....English players and coaches spend very little time playing or coaching in other countries, which greatly reduces their ability to adapt new tactitcal schemes and training methods.

 

Aside from Owen, Beckham, & McManaman at Real Madrid and Owen Hargreaves at Bayern Munich, no top Engilsh players have been successful outside of England since Platt & Gazza played in Italy.

 

Indeed. Hargreaves doesn't count either.

[wacko]

Were any of those managers successful abroad other than SBR? (I'm assuming that Souness failed miserably.)

[1878]

Paul Jewell sums up what's wrong with English managers. When he left Wigan, he should have been off to countries like Brazil, Italy, France, Spain for a year to pick up tips from abroad. I remember seeing somewhere that in the late 70s, Sven Goran Eriksson spent a week or two on the Ipswich training ground seeing how Bobby Robson did things there. No doubt he'd have done this all over Europe, picking up things as he goes along. What does Jewell do? Goes to Derby within 3 months where he has no hope of doing anything of note. Kudos to Chris Coleman for going out there, maybe one or two others should try the same.

 

I know years ago Moyes went to study Udinese and the Italian national team in training. He always goes on those UEFA conference things as well.

 

Tony Adams went out to Holland as a coach for a while before taking the job at Portsmouth.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if Mark Hughes ended up managing abroad either. He was at big foreign clubs as a player and probably won't get a chance of taking one of the top jobs in this league.

[LooneyToonArmy]

Another problem is our players rarely venture abroad so their experiences are limited and with it knowledge and ideas when they do become managers.

 

I think Coach HTT & Wacko hit it right on the nose....English players and coaches spend very little time playing or coaching in other countries, which greatly reduces their ability to adapt new tactitcal schemes and training methods.

 

Aside from Owen, Beckham, & McManaman at Real Madrid and Owen Hargreaves at Bayern Munich, no top Engilsh players have been successful outside of England since Platt & Gazza played in Italy.

 

Ince did well at Inter milan

 

special mention for Vinny Samways, who played in Spain between 1996 and 2003 for the likes of Sevilla, nicknamed Los Locos (the crazy one)

[Guest SeattleToon]

Yup....forgot about Ince.

 

Slightly off topic, but anybody notice how many of the players from Man United's mid-90's sides have gone on to become managers. By my count, you've got Keane, Ince, Bruce,  Hughes, & Bryan Robson. Has to say something about Sir Alex's ability to pick out and develop intelligent players who will be leaders on the pitch.

[wacko]

Yup....forgot about Ince.

 

Slightly off topic, but anybody notice how many of the players from Man United's mid-90's sides have gone on to become managers. By my count, you've got Keane, Ince, Bruce,  Hughes, & Bryan Robson. Has to say something about Sir Alex's ability to pick out and develop intelligent players who will be leaders on the pitch.

Good spot, that.

 

Apart from Hughes, none of them has shown himself to be Prem quality yet, though.

 

Do you reckon any of the NUFC squad will make it as a manager?

[Parky]

English managers are a bit fick?