Rate the Summer Signings....

[Guest Li3nZ]

Whey hey, football manager.....

 

At least some common sense is now appearing as some people have realised Smith can't be judged as a midfielder. He obviously shouldn't be judged on goals scored either.  The fact is the team has looked better in almost every game where he's played as a striker, inidicating he must be doing something for the team. I realise this can't show up in statistics though, so that's some people well and truly knackered when it comes to judging a footballer.

 

Anyway, it's too early for a thread like this.

 

I think everyone is being extremely harsh on Smith, and if basing judgement on the games he has played up front, means a lot here are very short sighted when it comes to analysing his performances. Scoring goals is critical as a team, but not everything when judging an individual player. Smith has never been the player to bang in 20 plus goals, someone next to him needs to do that. Anyone who has played football or understands the game can quite clearly see that when we have played Smith in an attacking role we have looked much better going forward. Against Arsenal he was immense, he wins and retains about 95% of balls punted / passed into his chest, feet, body, or winning it with his head, he holds the ball up and lays it off or retains posession until he has support. He's the sort of player that can link midfield to attack.

 

Improving his goal tally is obviously important but that's not what his game is all about, if you expect this from him then you may as well play him back in midfield for all it's worth.

[Guest Li3nZ]

Whey hey, football manager.....

 

At least some common sense is now appearing as some people have realised Smith can't be judged as a midfielder. He obviously shouldn't be judged on goals scored either.  The fact is the team has looked better in almost every game where he's played as a striker, inidicating he must be doing something for the team. I realise this can't show up in statistics though, so that's some people well and truly knackered when it comes to judging a footballer.

 

Anyway, it's too early for a thread like this.

 

It does, in the most important statistic of them all, which is why he shouldn't be anywhere near one of our forward positions either...

 

mackems.gif

 

Not sure why I'm bothering to reply to you, but did you read what I posted or did you just fail to grasp the meaning? You said, "it does." Well, what does? Tell me.

 

Imo, individual statistics aren't that important. What is really important is the TEAM. If the general play is consistently good enough and effective enough you will do ok overall, the team will win matches and will climb the table. If certain individuals appear to have 'ace' statistics but the overall TEAM play is s*** and ineffective, the TEAM will do nowt. A recent and good example being the much raved about Parker, who is apparently a "great player" according to many of the stats people on here because he had the highest number of completed passes while at Newcastle.  mackems.gif 

 

Carry on basing everything on newspaper statistics if that's what you prefer but I'll make up my mind by watching football matches.

 

Ta

 

Goals win you games. Strikers/forwards are supposed to score and/or create goals, more so than other players on the pitch anyway. By playing a striker who hardly ever scores but works very hard, we may be slightly easier on the eye, but I can't see it benefiting us for the most important team statistic: points gained.. Besides, apart from working hard, what exactly does Alan Smith contribute that makes him worth his 6M price tag?

 

Goalscoring - nope - Partially correct

Technique - nope - Wrong

Vision - nope - Wrong

Creativity - nope - Wrong

Holding the ball up - nope - You obviously haven't got a clue about football

 

I'd go as far as to say Ameobi is a better striker... - Until I read this I was taking you seriously!!! Sorry for responding![/b[

[Unbelievable]

he wins and retains about 95% of balls punted / passed into his chest, feet, body, or winning it with his head, he holds the ball up and lays it off or retains posession until he has support.

 

Erm, no he doesn´t. Not even close..

[Dave]

Goalscoring - nope - Partially correct

[Guest Li3nZ]

he wins and retains about 95% of balls punted / passed into his chest, feet, body, or winning it with his head, he holds the ball up and lays it off or retains posession until he has support.

 

Erm, no he doesn´t. Not even close..

 

"ERM" yes he does.

[Unbelievable]

Li3nZ, if you seriously think Smith has good technique and vision, is a creative player, and his goalscoring draught is just `partial´, I'm not sure I can take your footballing knowledge seriously. Can you please elaborate on the last time Smith has displayed his vision and creativity?

[Unbelievable]

he wins and retains about 95% of balls punted / passed into his chest, feet, body, or winning it with his head, he holds the ball up and lays it off or retains posession until he has support.

 

Erm, no he doesn´t. Not even close..

 

"ERM" yes he does.

 

Not even the best strikers in the world who have specialised in holding a ball up attain that sort of percentage. I think you´d be lucky if he even retained half of the balls hoofed up to him.. I´m sure you´ve got the stats to back up your claim?

[Guest Li3nZ]

Li3nZ, if you seriously think Smith has good technique and vision, is a creative player, and his goalscoring draught is just `partial´, I'm not sure I can take your footballing knowledge seriously. Can you please elaborate on the last time Smith has displayed his vision and creativity?

 

I can put the same back at you with regard his goalscoring ability. I agree, he never has been a phenomenal finisher even in his best days at Leeds. However, let's face it to say he NEVER scores is not entirely correct is it?! How long has he been playing in midfield (or not at all) at Man United and then the same for us bar a couple of games? If you haven't noticed how much better we look going forward with him in our team (edit: playing up front) then I don't know what you have been watching.

[Guest Li3nZ]

he wins and retains about 95% of balls punted / passed into his chest, feet, body, or winning it with his head, he holds the ball up and lays it off or retains posession until he has support.

 

Erm, no he doesn´t. Not even close..

 

"ERM" yes he does.

 

Not even the best strikers in the world who have specialised in holding a ball up attain that sort of percentage. I think you´d be lucky if he even retained half of the balls hoofed up to him.. I´m sure you´ve got the stats to back up your claim?

 

Are you being serious? Translate when someone says 95%, 99.9%, 9/10 times, on sometihng that is never calculated or would bother working out, it generally means "most of the time".

[toptoon]

Beye - 8 looks class and the best RB i can remember us having for quite some time.

Faye - 8 Still early with him but so far looks a rock of a player. Great in the air and the tackle, needed to mark 'big man' strikers.

Roz - 4 good on the deck, and quick. But weak in the air and hesitant. Needs to improve his game.

Cacapa - 6 Very intellegent player had 2 poor games though (Derby and Pompey).

Barton - 6 slow start due to injury, but getting better and better each game, like his passing and forward thinking. He'll be a 7 or 8 imo

Smith - 6 (as a striker) decent however will need to start chipping in with goals if he wants to stay.

Geremi - 6 Pre season looked very good but just ok at the moment

Enrique - 6 From the little i've seen looks good to me, but needs more games to be able to judge properly.

Viduka - 4 Most disappointing signing for me. Almost always injured and even when on the pitch very slow and easilly overpowered by defenders. Odd fantastic moment i.e. boro but does no where near enough, needs chances put on a plate for him (like Owen) and shows none of the work rate of Smith or Martins. If we are creating alot from midfield then i'd have Viduka and/or Owen on the pitch but otherwise (usually) Smith and Martins.

[gonufc]

Smith's a decent striker and I'm sure he'll chip in with a few goals if given a run up front, but the midfield is where we need to start dominating so we can actually create chances for our strikers. None of our new midfield signings have looked very creative so far,  and Emre only ever seems to play well coming off the bench...

[Thespence]

Smith wont score many as when he is up front he plays with his back constantly towards goal. Maybe SBR needs to have a chat with him a bit like he did with Al when took over.

[Yorkie]

My ratings (the numbers) are based on what i reckon to their long-term contributions to the club (crystal ball), as apposed to just current form. Starting from the best...

 

Abdoulaye Faye - 8. I think that this guy is the best centre-back we've had since Woodgate. Aye, there's not much of a shortlist, but i think he's a really good player. He's absolutely sublime with his head; we've not seen much of him, but i've not seen many centre-backs better at diverting the ball away from goal with their head than this guy. See Sunderland/Spurs in-particular. I don't think he'll be injury prone. Brilliant value for money and i think he'll do very well here. (Current form: 7.)

 

Habib Beye - 7. I wish he was a little bit younger, but i think once he has fully adapted to this league, he'll be crucial. He seems to have done that pretty much already. He had Arsenal's offensive players in his back-pocket and he was our best player yesterday, too. Not forgetting that great run that brought him the Brum goal. He's a good player, versatile, too. He and Faye are the only ones i would nail-on for a 'big future here'. (Current form: 8.)

 

Joey Barton - 7. I think he'll be a really important member of the squad in the long-term. I think he's still short of full match practise and i wished he'd have been fit from the start. But i think he's starting to contribute a lot more now, he needs to tweak a few areas of his game - he needs to run at people more. Some of his forward passing has been excellent though. I don't think he's our set, long-term, offensive midfielder, but i think he'll do well. (Current form: 5)

 

Jose Enrique - 6. I've only given him a 6 for long-term because i don't know enough about him and don't want to be harsh. I think he's looked decent from an attacking point of view, though. I saw his debut against Barnsley and it was pretty obvious that he had good ability. Won't be too gutted if we don't see much of him this season. (Current form: 5)

 

Claudio Caçapa - 6. I'll stick with my immediate interpretation of the guy, which i said when he signed: 'he'll do a job'. I think he's a good defender, and our best centre-back after Faye, and his experience is good to have. It remains to be seen whether he can cope with real quality though and i suppose we'll just have to wait and see. Using my crystal ball, i don't think he'll be remembered as a particularly great defender by the time he's done here. (Current form: 7)

 

Geremi - 6. Not many people here like him but i think he's a really good character to have and an important member on the pitch. Against the big teams, he's crucial i reckon; the Arsenal game is merely evidence of this. He's great for slowing the play down when we're under the cosh, and retaining possession. People can't see this on the television, and i don't think he's been told to do this enough. Sam's got him down as a playmaker - trying to do too much with the ball. He's not up to it. (Current form: 5)

 

Alan Smith - 5. I don't know about Smith. I think he's a poor midfielder, and while he's done much better upfront, he's still not scoring goals and he hasn't done for a long while. I don't know how long he's going to last here. (Current form: 6)

 

David Rozehnal - 5. He started brightly but i was never completely convinced by his ability. It was plain as day to see that he was a little bit lightweight. He's had more games than any of our other new defenders this season, yet looks the least capable of the Premiership. He might be more useful in other areas of the pitch. Long-term, i think he'll be a squad player at the absolute most. I'm not expecting masses from him in the long-term. (Current form: 4)

 

Mark Viduka - 5. Great player, no doubt about that. Not playing, though. A luxury player of the highest order. (Current form: 4)

 

Obviously, this is all using an unaccurate crystal ball, but i thought i'd give my interpretations anyway. It'd be unfair to grade them purely on their current form - that's my excuse.

[Unbelievable]

Li3nZ, if you seriously think Smith has good technique and vision, is a creative player, and his goalscoring draught is just `partial´, I'm not sure I can take your footballing knowledge seriously. Can you please elaborate on the last time Smith has displayed his vision and creativity?

 

I can put the same back at you with regard his goalscoring ability. I agree, he never has been a phenomenal finisher even in his best days at Leeds. However, let's face it to say he NEVER scores is not entirely correct is it?! How long has he been playing in midfield (or not at all) at Man United and then the same for us bar a couple of games? If you haven't noticed how much better we look going forward with him in our team (edit: playing up front) then I don't know what you have been watching.

 

I didn´t say he NEVER scores, just his goalscoring record is nowhere near good enough for a club gunning for European football.. I asked you when was the last time Smith showed his good vision and creativity which you claim he has, and you can´t even give me one incident in which he showed this? Speaks volumes doesn´t it. What use is a striker who doesn´t create or score goals? We´ll have to agree to disagree on the holding the ball up argument, and I have conceeded we have looked slightly better in recent weeks, but I still firmly believe I could have found many better striker options at 6M..

[Karjala]

Enrique - 2/10 - Hasn't really played

Please tell me you're taking the piss.

No.

 

I like the look of him when Ive seen him, but how can he be rated highly when he basically hasn't played?

 

£6.7m was it? I'd like to see him starting, especially as he cost that much and is our only LB in the squad.

 

I'm totally in the camp that wants him starting, and Zoggy in midfield. But, so far Enrique has barely played, hence the low rating.

He's a young lad in a foreign country being eased in slowly, correctly IMO, by Sam.  Give him a chance is all people are saying.

 

As you yourself say he has hardly played but you're still happy to judge him, and by giving him 2/10 you're essentially saying you think he's shit.  Patience.

Thats the thing, I'm not saying he's shit, I really want him to be our starting left back week in week out, i just dont think i can give him a high rating when he hasnt played...

 

Ok,ok, you are right, change my Enrique rating to a 9. Top Sub.

[Guest Li3nZ]

Li3nZ, if you seriously think Smith has good technique and vision, is a creative player, and his goalscoring draught is just `partial´, I'm not sure I can take your footballing knowledge seriously. Can you please elaborate on the last time Smith has displayed his vision and creativity?

 

I can put the same back at you with regard his goalscoring ability. I agree, he never has been a phenomenal finisher even in his best days at Leeds. However, let's face it to say he NEVER scores is not entirely correct is it?! How long has he been playing in midfield (or not at all) at Man United and then the same for us bar a couple of games? If you haven't noticed how much better we look going forward with him in our team (edit: playing up front) then I don't know what you have been watching.

 

I didn´t say he NEVER scores, just his goalscoring record is nowhere near good enough for a club gunning for European football.. I asked you when was the last time Smith showed his good vision and creativity which you claim he has, and you can´t even give me one incident in which he showed this? Speaks volumes doesn´t it. What use is a striker who doesn´t create or score goals? We´ll have to agree to disagree on the holding the ball up argument, and I have conceeded we have looked slightly better in recent weeks, but I still firmly believe I could have found many better striker options at 6M..

 

You think we're gunning for European Football...? Really? We obviously have differing opinions in many areas! No chance this season.

 

Anyway, Smith. I'm seeing improvements in only two games playing in his correct position, and I can see the benfit to the team he is bringing. Out of 4 goals scored while playing up front he has 1 assist (which he won in the air against arsenal and flicked to Taylor) and won a penalty which won the match. Not bad really? Hard to apply to two games though, and the way in which he has battled, and held up the ball in particular against Arsenal has been impressive.

 

I'd have to go back to Leeds to give you examples I can remember where I have been impressed with regards to pinpointing what defines good vision and creativity but he is a player I have always liked and I think he can do a very good job for us in the present situation we have found ourselves in (and I believe we are not looking at playing in Europe this season - call me pessimistic just the team I see as a unit does not impress me at all).

[Guest Knightrider]

Up front Smith brings us mobility centrally, a presence if you like. His pressing and strength up front allowed us to pin Arsenal back deep in their own half. This is very important to a side with next to no movement (in the right areas) up front or any such player that can press and rough defenders up. Yes he's not a goalscorer and nor is he creative, but his technique is decent enough because the ball does stick to him and that's what you need from a central striker. And as long as others are scoring goals around him, i.e. that the team is benefiting (which we are) then I'm happy for Smith to play up front. It is no coincidence since Barton's return which removed Smith from midfield to the front line that we have improved as a team, even if it is marginally.

[Unbelievable]

Li3nZ, if you seriously think Smith has good technique and vision, is a creative player, and his goalscoring draught is just `partial´, I'm not sure I can take your footballing knowledge seriously. Can you please elaborate on the last time Smith has displayed his vision and creativity?

 

I can put the same back at you with regard his goalscoring ability. I agree, he never has been a phenomenal finisher even in his best days at Leeds. However, let's face it to say he NEVER scores is not entirely correct is it?! How long has he been playing in midfield (or not at all) at Man United and then the same for us bar a couple of games? If you haven't noticed how much better we look going forward with him in our team (edit: playing up front) then I don't know what you have been watching.

 

I didn´t say he NEVER scores, just his goalscoring record is nowhere near good enough for a club gunning for European football.. I asked you when was the last time Smith showed his good vision and creativity which you claim he has, and you can´t even give me one incident in which he showed this? Speaks volumes doesn´t it. What use is a striker who doesn´t create or score goals? We´ll have to agree to disagree on the holding the ball up argument, and I have conceeded we have looked slightly better in recent weeks, but I still firmly believe I could have found many better striker options at 6M..

 

You think we're gunning for European Football...? Really? We obviously have differing opinions in many areas! No chance this season.

 

Anyway, Smith. I'm seeing improvements in only two games playing in his correct position, and I can see the benfit to the team he is bringing. Out of 4 goals scored while playing up front he has 1 assist (which he won in the air against arsenal and flicked to Taylor) and won a penalty which won the match. Not bad really? Hard to apply to two games though, and the way in which he has battled, and held up the ball in particular against Arsenal has been impressive.

 

I'd have to go back to Leeds to give you examples I can remember where I have been impressed with regards to pinpointing what defines good vision and creativity but he is a player I have always liked and I think he can do a very good job for us in the present situation we have found ourselves in (and I believe we are not looking at playing in Europe this season - call me pessimistic just the team I see as a unit does not impress me at all).

 

We should be gunning for European football, and we perhaps could have done if we would have spent the 6M on a real footballer like Elano instead of a grafter like Smith.. You claim Smith has good vision and creativity, but you have to go back over three seasons for an example.. I think it´s safe to say your judgement is a bit clouded by the fact you liked him before he came here and you hope he can do a job for us.

[Unbelievable]

Up front Smith brings us mobility centrally, a presence if you like. His pressing and strength up front allowed us to pin Arsenal back deep in their own half. This is very important to a side with next to no movement (in the right areas) up front or any such player that can press and rough defenders up. Yes he's not a goalscorer and nor is he creative, but his technique is decent enough because the ball does stick to him and that's what you need from a central striker. And as long as others are scoring goals around him, i.e. that the team is benefiting (which we are) then I'm happy for Smith to play up front. It is no coincidence since Barton's return which removed Smith from midfield to the front line that we have improved as a team, even if it is marginally.

 

I don´t necessarily disagree with this, but as we are rating our summer signings in this thread, I can´t see  how people can rate what Smith has done for us as very positive, taking into account his pricetag and the fact he seems undroppable, even if this means playing him in midfield where he is totally useless. We could have done much better with what we spent on him, especially if we would have gone for a creative central midfielder capable of playing on the right.

[Guest Knightrider]

We should be gunning for European football

 

We are not good enough and haven't been for a while, a new manager and a whole host of new players does not make a decent team. Time, money and some good management does. The likes of Everton and Blackburn who have good players and a good team have had a few years head start on us and even they might not make Europe, so to suggest that's an area we SHOULD be gunning for is delusional if you ask me. When I look at our squad and all the circumstances around the club and then look at the table I see a true reflection of the club we are - AVERAGE. At least a couple of notches below your Evertons and Pompeys.

[Guest Li3nZ]

We should be gunning for European football

 

We are not good enough and haven't been for a while, a new manager and a whole host of new players does not make a decent team. Time, money and some good management does. The likes of Everton and Blackburn who have good players and a good team have had a few years head start on us and even they might not make Europe, so to suggest that's an area we SHOULD be gunning for is delusional if you ask me. When I look at our squad and all the circumstances around the club and then look at the table I see a true reflection of the club we are - AVERAGE. At least a couple of notches below your Evertons and Pompeys.

 

Must admit this is the same perspective that I see things from, I thought this was the general consensus withe the majority of the fans as well.

[Guest Knightrider]

Up front Smith brings us mobility centrally, a presence if you like. His pressing and strength up front allowed us to pin Arsenal back deep in their own half. This is very important to a side with next to no movement (in the right areas) up front or any such player that can press and rough defenders up. Yes he's not a goalscorer and nor is he creative, but his technique is decent enough because the ball does stick to him and that's what you need from a central striker. And as long as others are scoring goals around him, i.e. that the team is benefiting (which we are) then I'm happy for Smith to play up front. It is no coincidence since Barton's return which removed Smith from midfield to the front line that we have improved as a team, even if it is marginally.

 

I don´t necessarily disagree with this, but as we are rating our summer signings in this thread, I can´t see  how people can rate what Smith has done for us as very positive, taking into account his pricetag and the fact he seems undroppable, even if this means playing him in midfield where he is totally useless. We could have done much better with what we spent on him, especially if we would have gone for a creative central midfielder capable of playing on the right.

 

The manager was facing losing two midfielders in Dyer and Solano who eventually left, Barton was out for the start of the season and two of his forwards, Owen and Martins had question marks over their futures at the club. With little funds to spend and few players available, he had to go out there and sign a player he could trust, who could come in straight away and not have to adapt, someone who would bolster midfield and attack, someone who was available and would be willing to join the club. He did that and while you might not rate Smith or think he's good value for money, the manager did what he had to do and so far Smith has done an OK job for me and is proving a valuable squad member so I'm happy with him and indeed his signing. Sure we could have bought a better player and maybe getting more of a player for £6m but it evens itself out. We bought a 4 decent defenders for next to nowt in terms of market forces who otherwise may have cost us upwards of £15m. You do what you can in the transfer market, when you can, and we did that with Smith who at the time was a logical signing given that we were light in midfield due to Barton's injury, the impending departure of Dyer and Solano and doubts as to whether Martins and Owen would be around for the kick-off.

[Unbelievable]

We should be gunning for European football

 

We are not good enough and haven't been for a while, a new manager and a whole host of new players does not make a decent team. Time, money and some good management does. The likes of Everton and Blackburn who have good players and a good team have had a few years head start on us and even they might not make Europe, so to suggest that's an area we SHOULD be gunning for is delusional if you ask me. When I look at our squad and all the circumstances around the club and then look at the table I see a true reflection of the club we are - AVERAGE. At least a couple of notches below your Evertons and Pompeys.

 

To suggest we should not be targetting Europe is delusional. Take note: I´m not saying we should be in Europe next season per se, and this season will be a failure if we don´t make Europe, but as far as targets go I think that should be it. We should aim to overachieve, and in terms of transfer policy especially we should target players who can take us to the next level, not consolidate our current average position. This is even more true in light of our new ownership, who I can´t see not targetting a return to European football in the next few seasons. To get it this season would be a bonus, but seeing as it´s not completely out of reach that´s what we should be trying to achieve. Would we have been in Europe last season if we didn´t aim European qualification when Roeder took over..? It might not have been realistic at that point in time, but with a combination of determination and belief we did achieve it in the end..

[Guest Knightrider]

We should be gunning for European football

 

We are not good enough and haven't been for a while, a new manager and a whole host of new players does not make a decent team. Time, money and some good management does. The likes of Everton and Blackburn who have good players and a good team have had a few years head start on us and even they might not make Europe, so to suggest that's an area we SHOULD be gunning for is delusional if you ask me. When I look at our squad and all the circumstances around the club and then look at the table I see a true reflection of the club we are - AVERAGE. At least a couple of notches below your Evertons and Pompeys.

 

To suggest we should not be targetting Europe is delusional. Take note: I´m not saying we should be in Europe next season per se, and this season will be a failure if we don´t make Europe, but as far as targets go I think that should be it. We should aim to overachieve, and in terms of transfer policy especially we should target players who can take us to the next level, not consolidate our current average position. This is even more true in light of our new ownership, who I can´t see not targetting a return to European football in the next few seasons. To get it this season would be a bonus, but seeing as it´s not completely out of reach that´s what we should be trying to achieve. Would we have been in Europe last season if we didn´t aim European qualification when Roeder took over..? It might not have been realistic at that point in time, but with a combination of determination and belief we did achieve it in the end..

 

Given all the changes I think it would be wrong to place any kind of target to achieve such a feat this season other than to improve on the league position and for players' individual games to improve. Set mini targets like increase number of away wins, clean sheets and home wins, but to target European Qualification would not only be unrealistic but counter-productive when it doesn't happen which it won't.

[Unbelievable]

We should be gunning for European football

 

We are not good enough and haven't been for a while, a new manager and a whole host of new players does not make a decent team. Time, money and some good management does. The likes of Everton and Blackburn who have good players and a good team have had a few years head start on us and even they might not make Europe, so to suggest that's an area we SHOULD be gunning for is delusional if you ask me. When I look at our squad and all the circumstances around the club and then look at the table I see a true reflection of the club we are - AVERAGE. At least a couple of notches below your Evertons and Pompeys.

 

Must admit this is the same perspective that I see things from, I thought this was the general consensus withe the majority of the fans as well.

 

People have adjusted their targets because of our mediocre start of the season. It´s a human thing to do, but that doesn´t make it valid. This is what people thought before the season started:

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=43276.0

 

With our squad, management and means we should be targetting the top seven.