Yorkie Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Lost the plot. Official. The countdown starts here ........ LOVE IT!!! its not meant to be serious, but I fear it could be if it signals that this square pegs into round holes mentality is deliberate ..... It's hardly square-peg-round-hole as far as i'm concerned. The only thing that would back that up is that he's right-footed. He's still raw, still a young player who being nurtured, he's played on the left plenty times before, and is a winger. Like i said before, it's hardly as if this is about Shola or Smith on the wing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueStar Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Sigh. How about you give it a go, ey Sam? Go on, humour us. Play Zog on the left and Milner on the right for a few matches. Se what happens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Lost the plot. Official. The countdown starts here ........ Playing a player in a position where he's probably most effective = 'lost the plot'. He's hardly playing Shola on the left-wing is he. I don't think Milner is a left sided player mate. If thats his best position, we need to get rid. I'd certainly say it's debatable, but i think our left-wing has worked very well just recently. Especially againt Birmingham, there was some fantastic attacking play in that first half. Very eager to see more of it. If we're playing 4-3-3, Milner plays there, not on the right imo. What about 442? At Sunderland when we played 442 it was Milner on the left & Barton on the right. At Blackburn we started 433 & then when we went 442 it was Barton who went on the right. We're not playing 4-4-2. If we're playing 4-4-2, i'd have Milner on the right. Playing Barton or Smith or Geremi on the right is ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Lost the plot. Official. The countdown starts here ........ Playing a player in a position where he's probably most effective = 'lost the plot'. He's hardly playing Shola on the left-wing is he. I don't think Milner is a left sided player mate. If thats his best position, we need to get rid. I'd certainly say it's debatable, but i think our left-wing has worked very well just recently. Especially againt Birmingham, there was some fantastic attacking play in that first half. Very eager to see more of it. If we're playing 4-3-3, Milner plays there, not on the right imo. What about 442? At Sunderland when we played 442 it was Milner on the left & Barton on the right. At Blackburn we started 433 & then when we went 442 it was Barton who went on the right. We're not playing 4-4-2. If we're playing 4-4-2, i'd have Milner on the right. Playing Barton or Smith or Geremi on the right is ridiculous. We did at Sunderland. We switched to it v Blackburn & i guess we will be playing it at some point when Mick Owen is fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Lost the plot. Official. The countdown starts here ........ LOVE IT!!! its not meant to be serious, but I fear it could be if it signals that this square pegs into round holes mentality is deliberate ..... I know, I just liked the terminology I guessed that mate. I've seen players play on the "wrong" side before and do well, but only if they have pace ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Sigh. How about you give it a go, ey Sam? Go on, humour us. Play Zog on the left and Milner on the right for a few matches. Se what happens. When we play 433 I think the front 3 will always have at least 2 strikers in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Lost the plot. Official. The countdown starts here ........ Playing a player in a position where he's probably most effective = 'lost the plot'. He's hardly playing Shola on the left-wing is he. I don't think Milner is a left sided player mate. If thats his best position, we need to get rid. I'd certainly say it's debatable, but i think our left-wing has worked very well just recently. Especially againt Birmingham, there was some fantastic attacking play in that first half. Very eager to see more of it. If we're playing 4-3-3, Milner plays there, not on the right imo. What about 442? At Sunderland when we played 442 it was Milner on the left & Barton on the right. At Blackburn we started 433 & then when we went 442 it was Barton who went on the right. We're not playing 4-4-2. If we're playing 4-4-2, i'd have Milner on the right. Playing Barton or Smith or Geremi on the right is ridiculous. We did at Sunderland. We switched to it v Blackburn & i guess we will be playing it at some point when Mick Owen is fit. *Shrug* ... if we played 4-4-2 and Milner was on the left, then i'd agree with you. But we're not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I've seen players play on the "wrong" side before and do well, but only if they have pace ... It is the tactic often used by clubs who struggle to score as it means the two out wide are always cutting in to shoot on there stronger foot. I remember when Peter Reid had Michael Grey playing right midfield Kranjar plays on the left for Pompey & iirc he is right footed & Ginola could whack a ball with his right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Lost the plot. Official. The countdown starts here ........ LOVE IT!!! its not meant to be serious, but I fear it could be if it signals that this square pegs into round holes mentality is deliberate ..... I know, I just liked the terminology I guessed that mate. I've seen players play on the "wrong" side before and do well, but only if they have pace ... Didn't Waddle end up on the opposite side to which he started? Genuine question, not a wind up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Lost the plot. Official. The countdown starts here ........ LOVE IT!!! its not meant to be serious, but I fear it could be if it signals that this square pegs into round holes mentality is deliberate ..... It's hardly square-peg-round-hole as far as i'm concerned. The only thing that would back that up is that he's right-footed. He's still raw, still a young player who being nurtured, he's played on the left plenty times before, and is a winger. Like i said before, it's hardly as if this is about Shola or Smith on the wing. I see your point about Smith and Shameobi, but we are crying out for a player on the right, and the one player who can play on the right, is playing on the left, has no pace, and the best left sided player is playing left back. I'm not impressed with Milner on the left, he lacks pace. He isn't really good enough on the right either, but he could improve his crossing with his right foot and become a better player on the right. He's not that young in terms of games either now. He's played enough games to see what his best position is. The only positive I can see from this, is if Allardyce thinks he's a left sided player, he won't be looking for another left sided player to piss zoggy off so we lose him before the next manager plays HIM in HIS best position. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Lost the plot. Official. The countdown starts here ........ LOVE IT!!! its not meant to be serious, but I fear it could be if it signals that this square pegs into round holes mentality is deliberate ..... I know, I just liked the terminology I guessed that mate. I've seen players play on the "wrong" side before and do well, but only if they have pace ... Didn't Waddle end up on the opposite side to which he started? Genuine question, not a wind up. Yes. He played both sides though. Nowt against players doing this if they have the pace, but Milner hasn't, Chris Waddle had far better skills and dribbling ability than Milner too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Lost the plot. Official. The countdown starts here ........ LOVE IT!!! its not meant to be serious, but I fear it could be if it signals that this square pegs into round holes mentality is deliberate ..... I know, I just liked the terminology I guessed that mate. I've seen players play on the "wrong" side before and do well, but only if they have pace ... Didn't Waddle end up on the opposite side to which he started? Genuine question, not a wind up. Yes. He played both sides though. Nowt against players doing this if they have the pace, but Milner hasn't, Chris Waddle had far better skills and dribbling ability than Milner too. Waddle wasn't fast. I don't remember him being that much faster than Milner tbh. He did have tremendous dribbling technique though, no doubt. FWIW I really don't think Milner has let anyone down this season. I rate him and think he gets a fair bit of unnecessary stick on here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Lost the plot. Official. The countdown starts here ........ Playing a player in a position where he's probably most effective = 'lost the plot'. He's hardly playing Shola on the left-wing is he. He did against Arsenal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I've seen players play on the "wrong" side before and do well, but only if they have pace ... It is the tactic often used by clubs who struggle to score as it means the two out wide are always cutting in to shoot on there stronger foot. I remember when Peter Reid had Michael Grey playing right midfield Kranjar plays on the left for Pompey & iirc he is right footed & Ginola could whack a ball with his right. For me, Milner doesn't really have much in his locker. He's just a player with a great attitude who crosses the ball. Because of this, he needs to whip his crosses in quickly and early, like Nobby Solano and Beckham, 2 other players who didn't have pace. He won't do that with his left foot, so his only chance of becoming a good player - or a better player - is to become better at this IMO. I concede he will score the odd goal, or get the odd cross in from the byline against a full back who is one paced like himself. Not enough though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Allardyce much prefers inswingers of all types, that's why we only ever take inswinging corners and free kicks in the hope that they'll get a touch (or not) and go in, like Charlie at Bolton and Oba at Blackburn. Ditto with the wingers, I've noticed the legacy of it remains at Bolton this season, they'll still always try to swing crosses in toward goal with the wrong foot so things like Milner at the SoS happen. It's this percentage thing that Allardyce is obsessed with, an attitude of "if you put enough balls in enough key areas, things will happen." Personally though, I'm rather of the opinion that it's a nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Lost the plot. Official. The countdown starts here ........ LOVE IT!!! its not meant to be serious, but I fear it could be if it signals that this square pegs into round holes mentality is deliberate ..... I know, I just liked the terminology I guessed that mate. I've seen players play on the "wrong" side before and do well, but only if they have pace ... Didn't Waddle end up on the opposite side to which he started? Genuine question, not a wind up. Yes. He played both sides though. Nowt against players doing this if they have the pace, but Milner hasn't, Chris Waddle had far better skills and dribbling ability than Milner too. Waddle wasn't fast. I don't remember him being that much faster than Milner tbh. He did have tremendous dribbling technique though, no doubt. FWIW I really don't think Milner has let anyone down this season. I rate him and think he gets a fair bit of unnecessary stick on here. Well, he had a big stride and dribbling ability. I don't mean to criticise Milner, he's got a great attitude, I just want the best for Newcastle and to see the best of him in his most natural position. Its one of those situations where, when we have a better player there, you will realise he is a bit limited. This was discussed on here a month or two ago, for me he isn't in the same league as Keith Gillespie was in 1995, 96, 97. I hope he can improve, but lacking pace and/or dribbling ability is a handicap, he will have to improve his crossing to overcome it, and doing it earlier, and putting it right into the danger areas, beating the first man. I am not really thinking of Waddle, but Ronaldo who has played on both sides for Manure, and past players such as Alan Hinton for Derby and Peter Thompson of Liverpool. I know this is going back, but these players were perfect examples of players who can play both sides. It's all about playing players where they are best, such is the dividing line between success and failure, winning and losing games. As Dave says, you also have to consider the fact that zoggy is better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Allardyce much prefers inswingers of all types, that's why we only ever take inswinging corners and free kicks in the hope that they'll get a touch (or not) and go in, like Charlie at Bolton and Oba at Blackburn. Ditto with the wingers, I've noticed the legacy of it remains at Bolton this season, they'll still always try to swing crosses in toward goal with the wrong foot so things like Milner at the SoS happen. It's this percentage thing that Allardyce is obsessed with, an attitude of "if you put enough balls in enough key areas, things will happen." Personally though, I'm rather of the opinion that it's a nonsense. You've said pretty much what I was thinking too Wullie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Geordiesned Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Playing Milner on the left might ocassionally be ok for our play down the left but for me Milner is much more of a danger on the right especially when Viduka is playing as he thrives on crosses cut back from the by-line. But the main problem I have with Milner on the left is that we have fuck all on the right. The opposition know this and as has often happened this season they are able to put 2 men on Milner thus negating our attacking down both flanks. Great logic Sam! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Playing Milner on the left might ocassionally be ok for our play down the left but for me Milner is much more of a danger on the right especially when Viduka is playing as he thrives on crosses cut back from the by-line. But the main problem I have with Milner on the left is that we have f*** all on the right. The opposition know this and as has often happened this season they are able to put 2 men on Milner thus negating our attacking down both flanks. Great logic Sam! I am with you but should Charles not be helping out? Why is it when England/Newcastle play any formation the opposition always seem to have more men!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowen Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Allardyce much prefers inswingers of all types, that's why we only ever take inswinging corners and free kicks in the hope that they'll get a touch (or not) and go in, like Charlie at Bolton and Oba at Blackburn. Ditto with the wingers, I've noticed the legacy of it remains at Bolton this season, they'll still always try to swing crosses in toward goal with the wrong foot so things like Milner at the SoS happen. It's this percentage thing that Allardyce is obsessed with, an attitude of "if you put enough balls in enough key areas, things will happen." Personally though, I'm rather of the opinion that it's a nonsense. I agree he puts too much emphasis on it, but we've also scored from inswinging set pieces against Tottenham, Reading and Birmingham this season. I'd be surprised if we scored that many from set pieces all of last season. Also, iirc, wasn't Owen's goal against Everton from an outswinging set piece from Emre? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Allardyce much prefers inswingers of all types, that's why we only ever take inswinging corners and free kicks in the hope that they'll get a touch (or not) and go in, like Charlie at Bolton and Oba at Blackburn. Ditto with the wingers, I've noticed the legacy of it remains at Bolton this season, they'll still always try to swing crosses in toward goal with the wrong foot so things like Milner at the SoS happen. It's this percentage thing that Allardyce is obsessed with, an attitude of "if you put enough balls in enough key areas, things will happen." Personally though, I'm rather of the opinion that it's a nonsense. I agree he puts too much emphasis on it, but we've also scored from inswinging set pieces against Tottenham, Reading and Birmingham this season. I'd be surprised if we scored that many from set pieces all of last season. Also, iirc, wasn't Owen's goal against Everton from an outswinging set piece from Emre? Only because Geremi and Milner had gone off. Had either of them still been on the field, Emre would not have taken the kick. Yeah it's working to an extent but it's almost working too often - that's the only type of goal we're scoring and not enough! You can't base your game around set pieces. You can be strong at them, the best sides still are, but football matches by and large are won and lost in open play. They're good at that too, we're not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 4-3-3 will sort it all out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 4-3-3 will sort it all out. With players that suit that formation of course Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 I've always had to go to a football club and pick a system to suit the players. If I wasn't flexible, I wouldn't have got where I am today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 Just reading it now, says fans need educating and that he knows best. Also says Shearer was a dick when he met him and that Wor Jackie wouldn't have made it today. Reckons SJP is a bit of a dump too compared to the Reebok. In so many words anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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