Guest Knightrider Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I think a lack of standards at Newcastle makes it very easy for the players. There is nothing to live up to, nothing to try and emulate and better. The result is there is no accountability, no reality check, no real inner motivation and self discipline, no loyalty. I watched Ronaldo a few weeks back against Fulham and Man Utd were winning and he was having a good game, but he hadn't scored and was desperate to do so and got very angry with himself for fluffing a few chances. That is real hunger that, that's a player who could easily sit back on his laurels and take it easy but no, he wanted to score, he wanted his team to win by a bigger margin, he didn't just want to be part of a winning team, he wanted to contribute fully in the best way he knows. That kind of mentality was evident right throughout the Man Utd team and it's because of the standards at the club more than anything else in my opinion. Our players.... I'll stop because I can't be arsed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Sometimes the only way you could even discern when this team plays "better" is when they achieve results. The difference between a Newcastle team that has played well [albeit more infrequently] and a Newcastle team that has played poorly this season has been very little. They could be playing what they consider to be 'well' a lot of the time, and you just wouldn't know it under the current regime. Trying to win 1-0 or get 0-0 is never going to be a vastly different performance from a 1-0 loss. They evidently have other gears, we've seen some of those players step up to gears that, judging by this season, you wouldn't think existed, but they're inhibited by tactics/mentality and though I'm by no means exonerating them entirely, the majority of the blame lies with the manager at this time. The players' biggest fault isn't their commitment, it's their talent IMO. For example, Oba has continued to run his butt off trying to latch onto the hopeless long balls of the rest of the team. Milner always shows passion, but the truth is, he just isn't that fast! Butt does his best, but his range of passing sometimes loses us possession. Our main problem is lack of creativity, everyone knows that, but we're fairly weak, pretty much everywhere on the park, and that's a talent-issue, not a commitment-issue IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I actually feel sorry for N'Zogbia especially. You can see his frustration at having to play alongside crap players. That is perhaps my biggest fear for the squad right now -- our better players getting fed up and leaving for a club/manager with ambition to face teams 19th/20th in the table who don't want to concentrate on keeping a clean sheet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 The same with Duff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I think a lack of standards at Newcastle makes it very easy for the players. There is nothing to live up to, nothing to try and emulate and better. The result is there is no accountability, no reality check, no real inner motivation and self discipline, no loyalty. I watched Ronaldo a few weeks back against Fulham and Man Utd were winning and he was having a good game, but he hadn't scored and was desperate to do so and got very angry with himself for fluffing a few chances. That is real hunger that, that's a player who could easily sit back on his laurels and take it easy but no, he wanted to score, he wanted his team to win by a bigger margin, he didn't just want to be part of a winning team, he wanted to contribute fully in the best way he knows. That kind of mentality was evident right throughout the Man Utd team and it's because of the standards at the club more than anything else in my opinion. Our players.... I'll stop because I can't be arsed. Clearly some aren't giving it everything for whatever reason. I'd have them fucking shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I think a lack of standards at Newcastle makes it very easy for the players. There is nothing to live up to, nothing to try and emulate and better. The result is there is no accountability, no reality check, no real inner motivation and self discipline, no loyalty. I watched Ronaldo a few weeks back against Fulham and Man Utd were winning and he was having a good game, but he hadn't scored and was desperate to do so and got very angry with himself for fluffing a few chances. That is real hunger that, that's a player who could easily sit back on his laurels and take it easy but no, he wanted to score, he wanted his team to win by a bigger margin, he didn't just want to be part of a winning team, he wanted to contribute fully in the best way he knows. That kind of mentality was evident right throughout the Man Utd team and it's because of the standards at the club more than anything else in my opinion. Our players.... I'll stop because I can't be arsed. Clearly some aren't giving it everything for whatever reason. I'd have them fucking shot. I am not in the best of moods where our players are concerned but if I apply some reasoned thinking to things I can see it's a catch 22 thing because the club for years have allowed things to get to this stage and haven't had standards since KK was here. I think even FS recognised this hence Big Sam, a man who would come in and leave no stone unturned in the pusuit of changing the entire culture of the club and in doing so laying down some solid foundations built on standards and so on. This is why I wanted him and why I'm prepared to accept a season or two of mid-table finishes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I think a lack of standards at Newcastle makes it very easy for the players. There is nothing to live up to, nothing to try and emulate and better. The result is there is no accountability, no reality check, no real inner motivation and self discipline, no loyalty. I watched Ronaldo a few weeks back against Fulham and Man Utd were winning and he was having a good game, but he hadn't scored and was desperate to do so and got very angry with himself for fluffing a few chances. That is real hunger that, that's a player who could easily sit back on his laurels and take it easy but no, he wanted to score, he wanted his team to win by a bigger margin, he didn't just want to be part of a winning team, he wanted to contribute fully in the best way he knows. That kind of mentality was evident right throughout the Man Utd team and it's because of the standards at the club more than anything else in my opinion. Our players.... I'll stop because I can't be arsed. Clearly some aren't giving it everything for whatever reason. I'd have them f****** shot. I am not in the best of moods where our players are concerned but if I apply some reasoned thinking to things I can see it's a catch 22 thing because the club for years have allowed things to get to this stage and haven't had standards since KK was here. I think even FS recognised this hence Big Sam, a man who would come in and leave no stone unturned in the pusuit of changing the entire culture of the club and in doing so laying down some solid foundations built on standards and so on. This is why I wanted him and why I'm prepared to accept a season or two of mid-table finishes. It is not working because Sam is an idiot. He is in the same mould as Clive Woodward in the way that they bring specialists in to do jobs rather than do it themselves. Woodward last real job in rugby was complete failure with the British Lions because he tried to introduce methods & systems into the Lions that worked with an England team which he worked with for 8 years, which is the same amount as years as Sam was at Bolton. See a pattern. Sam has come & done to much. His signings were rushed & after failing to get Distin & Silvestre in he has got Faye who I reckon he wanted as a DM playing CB & signed the hapless duo from Lyons reserves & the other fella from a poor PSG team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I think a lack of standards at Newcastle makes it very easy for the players. There is nothing to live up to, nothing to try and emulate and better. The result is there is no accountability, no reality check, no real inner motivation and self discipline, no loyalty. I watched Ronaldo a few weeks back against Fulham and Man Utd were winning and he was having a good game, but he hadn't scored and was desperate to do so and got very angry with himself for fluffing a few chances. That is real hunger that, that's a player who could easily sit back on his laurels and take it easy but no, he wanted to score, he wanted his team to win by a bigger margin, he didn't just want to be part of a winning team, he wanted to contribute fully in the best way he knows. That kind of mentality was evident right throughout the Man Utd team and it's because of the standards at the club more than anything else in my opinion. Our players.... I'll stop because I can't be arsed. Clearly some aren't giving it everything for whatever reason. I'd have them f****** shot. I am not in the best of moods where our players are concerned but if I apply some reasoned thinking to things I can see it's a catch 22 thing because the club for years have allowed things to get to this stage and haven't had standards since KK was here. I think even FS recognised this hence Big Sam, a man who would come in and leave no stone unturned in the pusuit of changing the entire culture of the club and in doing so laying down some solid foundations built on standards and so on. This is why I wanted him and why I'm prepared to accept a season or two of mid-table finishes. It is not working because Sam is an idiot. He is in the same mould as Clive Woodward in the way that they bring specialists in to do jobs rather than do it themselves. Woodward last real job in rugby was complete failure with the British Lions because he tried to introduce methods & systems into the Lions that worked with an England team which he worked with for 8 years, which is the same amount as years as Sam was at Bolton. See a pattern. Sam has come & done to much. His signings were rushed & after failing to get Distin & Silvestre in he has got Faye who I reckon he wanted as a DM playing CB & signed the hapless duo from Lyons reserves & the other fella from a poor PSG team. Ridiculous. There is much more to it than that. SA didn't walk into a competitive squad. It has been threadbare for years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I think a lack of standards at Newcastle makes it very easy for the players. There is nothing to live up to, nothing to try and emulate and better. The result is there is no accountability, no reality check, no real inner motivation and self discipline, no loyalty. I watched Ronaldo a few weeks back against Fulham and Man Utd were winning and he was having a good game, but he hadn't scored and was desperate to do so and got very angry with himself for fluffing a few chances. That is real hunger that, that's a player who could easily sit back on his laurels and take it easy but no, he wanted to score, he wanted his team to win by a bigger margin, he didn't just want to be part of a winning team, he wanted to contribute fully in the best way he knows. That kind of mentality was evident right throughout the Man Utd team and it's because of the standards at the club more than anything else in my opinion. Our players.... I'll stop because I can't be arsed. Clearly some aren't giving it everything for whatever reason. I'd have them f****** shot. I am not in the best of moods where our players are concerned but if I apply some reasoned thinking to things I can see it's a catch 22 thing because the club for years have allowed things to get to this stage and haven't had standards since KK was here. I think even FS recognised this hence Big Sam, a man who would come in and leave no stone unturned in the pusuit of changing the entire culture of the club and in doing so laying down some solid foundations built on standards and so on. This is why I wanted him and why I'm prepared to accept a season or two of mid-table finishes. It is not working because Sam is an idiot. He is in the same mould as Clive Woodward in the way that they bring specialists in to do jobs rather than do it themselves. Woodward last real job in rugby was complete failure with the British Lions because he tried to introduce methods & systems into the Lions that worked with an England team which he worked with for 8 years, which is the same amount as years as Sam was at Bolton. See a pattern. Sam has come & done to much. His signings were rushed & after failing to get Distin & Silvestre in he has got Faye who I reckon he wanted as a DM playing CB & signed the hapless duo from Lyons reserves & the other fella from a poor PSG team. In the same way that Mourinho and Fergie hire specialists to do the jobs they can't? Allardyce is a manager and a coach, he does these two jobs, he's not going to massage players' legs or monitor them in the ice bath is he. His behind the scenes stuff are more to do with fitness, injury prevention and recovery rather that anything football related so I don't see how all of these things he's introduced are having a negative bearing on the football. Anyway, those things haven't all came at once, many are still to be implemented. And btw, those things will be good for the club regardless of results and are very much needed giving that most clubs employ a host of specialists in all kinds of areas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I think a lack of standards at Newcastle makes it very easy for the players. There is nothing to live up to, nothing to try and emulate and better. The result is there is no accountability, no reality check, no real inner motivation and self discipline, no loyalty. I watched Ronaldo a few weeks back against Fulham and Man Utd were winning and he was having a good game, but he hadn't scored and was desperate to do so and got very angry with himself for fluffing a few chances. That is real hunger that, that's a player who could easily sit back on his laurels and take it easy but no, he wanted to score, he wanted his team to win by a bigger margin, he didn't just want to be part of a winning team, he wanted to contribute fully in the best way he knows. That kind of mentality was evident right throughout the Man Utd team and it's because of the standards at the club more than anything else in my opinion. Our players.... I'll stop because I can't be arsed. Clearly some aren't giving it everything for whatever reason. I'd have them f****** shot. I am not in the best of moods where our players are concerned but if I apply some reasoned thinking to things I can see it's a catch 22 thing because the club for years have allowed things to get to this stage and haven't had standards since KK was here. I think even FS recognised this hence Big Sam, a man who would come in and leave no stone unturned in the pusuit of changing the entire culture of the club and in doing so laying down some solid foundations built on standards and so on. This is why I wanted him and why I'm prepared to accept a season or two of mid-table finishes. It is not working because Sam is an idiot. He is in the same mould as Clive Woodward in the way that they bring specialists in to do jobs rather than do it themselves. Woodward last real job in rugby was complete failure with the British Lions because he tried to introduce methods & systems into the Lions that worked with an England team which he worked with for 8 years, which is the same amount as years as Sam was at Bolton. See a pattern. Sam has come & done to much. His signings were rushed & after failing to get Distin & Silvestre in he has got Faye who I reckon he wanted as a DM playing CB & signed the hapless duo from Lyons reserves & the other fella from a poor PSG team. In the same way that Mourinho and Fergie hire specialists to do the jobs they can't? Allardyce is a manager and a coach, he does these two jobs, he's not going to massage players' legs or monitor them in the ice bath is he. His behind the scenes stuff are more to do with fitness, injury prevention and recovery rather that anything football related so I don't see how all of these things he's introduced are having a negative bearing on the football. Anyway, those things haven't all came at once, many are still to be implemented. And btw, those things will be good for the club regardless of results and are very much needed giving that most clubs employ a host of specialists in all kinds of areas. Regardless of results?!?! Football is result industry. I agree things needed to change but you can change too much in one go. Like I said Woodwood methods which are more in line with Sams than anyone else regardless of sport & what he did with the Lions failed but worked given time with England. Go to google & key in Allardyce & Woodward there are a lot of articles out there which mention the similarities. Dont think I have read one saying Sir Alex & Allardyce have similar methods Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Spence, you are being a bit short-sighted here mate. We're 11th, still got more points at this stage of the season than we've had since 2003... I know the performances have been really poor at times, but things aren't as bad as they're being made out to be and Allardyce certainly isn't an idiot. In my head I know Sam needs at least until the end of the season, but I fear that too many attitudes like yours (which may be right, of course) will drive him out before then... I can't see how he can turn this around, unless we take 4-6 points from our next two games. But we won't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago_shearer Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 This is a great post, and mirrors what I've been thinking over the past few weeks. Well done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I would presume from this thread, as I'm not going to read all 86 posts, thats it isn't the chairmans/boards fault anymore ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicago_shearer Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I actually feel sorry for N'Zogbia especially. You can see his frustration at having to play alongside crap players. That is perhaps my biggest fear for the squad right now -- our better players getting fed up and leaving for a club/manager with ambition to face teams 19th/20th in the table who don't want to concentrate on keeping a clean sheet. I can't understand that attitude. N'Zogbia is 21 years old and probably a millionaire. He has considerable ability, although he is far from a complete player. He owes all his money and his fame to this club. He has had some good performances, and some not-so-good performances this season. Yes, he has been asked to learn a new position this year. Yes, he has to play with less naturally talented teammates. But that doesn't give him the right to have a strop, underperform, and ask to move elsewhere. If he did that, the last thing I would feel is sorry for him. I don't ask them all to bleed black & white, but we should demand a higher standard of pride and professionalism. Especially for young players like that. They do not run the show, regardless of what they might think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I actually feel sorry for N'Zogbia especially. You can see his frustration at having to play alongside crap players. That is perhaps my biggest fear for the squad right now -- our better players getting fed up and leaving for a club/manager with ambition to face teams 19th/20th in the table who don't want to concentrate on keeping a clean sheet. I can't understand that attitude. N'Zogbia is 21 years old and probably a millionaire. He has considerable ability, although he is far from a complete player. He owes all his money and his fame to this club. He has had some good performances, and some not-so-good performances this season. Yes, he has been asked to learn a new position this year. Yes, he has to play with less naturally talented teammates. But that doesn't give him the right to have a strop, underperform, and ask to move elsewhere. If he did that, the last thing I would feel is sorry for him. I don't ask them all to bleed black & white, but we should demand a higher standard of pride and professionalism. Especially for young players like that. They do not run the show, regardless of what they might think. I don't see the relevance of his age/financial position, and I don't recall him ever being stroppy or underperforming significantly. He has struggled to adapt to some of the defensive responsibilities of LB though, I will grant you that, but he has improved. He has got his head down [thus far!] and got on with it. I don't think he would be out of order if he did privately have a word with Allardyce though. Also, he doesn't owe NUFC unduly, I don't think. There's a contract, NUFC pay him, he plays good football. Both obligations have been fulfilled. Furthermore, with his talent, he would have been big with or without NUFC IMO. If he were to leave for a club to further his career if we continue to take his services for granted, and did so with decorum, I would have no problem with him personally. I would advice you not let the JJs/Dyers/Bellamys make you typecast every young player as a self-centred leech. N'Zogbia has been nothing but level-headed as far as I am aware [though, if I am wrong, do tell me ] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I've heard that N'Zogbia enjoys a Roger Moore Bond film, and has been seen watching in the early hours of the morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 I would presume from this thread, as I'm not going to read all 86 posts, thats it isn't the chairmans/boards fault anymore ? people have had almost 4 hours to think of an anti Fred reply to this, but can't, I take it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 I think it's more a case of them being stunned at how moronic your post was tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 I think it's more a case of them being stunned at how moronic your post was tbh. I think its a case of them having their head up their arse Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Whatever, minger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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