"The Untouchables" (The Players)

[UV]

 

 

Emre? Never fit.

Duff? Done f*** all for us.

Owen? Doesn't even want to be here.

Ameobi? f*** all.

Carr? Waste of space.

Harper? Content being number 2.

 

 

These are the players you're blaming for poor performances this season?

 

Emre? If he's never fit how is he affecting the performances? Has played 496 minutes of league football this season. 1 goal 4 assists - not bad for 5 1/2 games

Duff? Has played 100 minutes of league football this season

Owen? Has played 598 minutes of league football this season

Ameobi? Has played 168 minutes of league football this season

Carr? Has played 246 minutes of league football this season. Played in 1 of our 3 clean sheets

Harper? Has played 9 league games this season. Conceded less goals than Given but was dropped as soon as Given was fit.

 

The easy target outfield players you've picked to blame (coincidentally none of which are Allardyce's signings ) have played a combined total of around 1600 minutes, or 18 games, ie equivalent to 1 player over the season.

 

I bet over half of every team we've put out are HIS signings ffs!

[tmonkey]

Its the manager's job to motivate the players.

 

I dont think anyone would argue that Derby or Wigan have an equal first team on paper, let alone a better one. We have far superior and more talented players - so why are we so shit?

 

If its the players who arent pulling their weight, why arent they, and who's job is it to ensure that they are?

 

All roads lead to the manager imo.

[ChrisJbarnes]

http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1199896,00.html

 

duff seems committed, i thnink i saw emre say a similar thing. i think its players like babyaro, and probably carr ameobi and maybe owen. to say the rest of the players dont give a shite is a big assumption. if thats the case, we need an entire new team!

[Guest Knightrider]

Fairly predicatable reaction: if the manager you back to the hilt doesn´t seem to get the team going, blame the players. With some of the baffling decisions by Allardyce, who can blame the players for not understanding or responding..

 

Baffling, what asking a player to play a few yards away from where he usually plays?

 

If Big Sam wants his head checked for playing Martins wide right, Martins wants f****** shot too for not being able to even do the basics. A bit of grass is a bit of grass, whether you're out wide or up front you should still be able to pass, control, dribble, cross etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, he's not making things any easier for the players but isn't it also his job to challenge them, to get them to do things they can't do or aren't used to? To improve them?

 

Milner has had no problems playing in a different position so I don't see why Martins shouldn't be able to adjust. In fact I don't want players at my club who can't, players who struggle badly when you ask them to do something different.

 

f*** them.

 

The point is that Managers have never asked the likes of Shearer, Owen, Rooney etc to play wide right, so why is Sam doing it with Oba and why are people surprised he looks out of place.  Dont you think this Owen would be pissed off if he was put out there?

 

One journalist wrote that the players getting off the coach at Wigan looked beat before they even entered the stadium.  That speaks volumes.  Get the square pegs in the square holes and stop f****** about.

 

 

The same Rooney who has played left, right and in the hole for both Man Utd and England?

 

The same Shearer who constantly changed his game throughout his career to suit whatever team or system he was playing in, and successfully I might add.

 

Or how about the same Owen who has played in 4-4-2, 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 with success?

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree players should be played in their best or most comfortable positions but they should also by the same token be able to make adjustments and allowances. I mean we are not talking about asking Martins to fit fucking carpets here, we're asking him to play on the same grass and it isn't as if he's having to do things differently in terms of the basics like passing, shooting, crossing and controlling the ball. We give players far too much slack.

[PM]

 

 

Emre? Never fit.

Duff? Done f*** all for us.

Owen? Doesn't even want to be here.

Ameobi? f*** all.

Carr? Waste of space.

Harper? Content being number 2.

 

 

These are the players you're blaming for poor performances this season?

 

Emre? If he's never fit how is he affecting the performances? Has played 496 minutes of league football this season. 1 goal 4 assists - not bad for 5 1/2 games

Duff? Has played 100 minutes of league football this season

Owen? Has played 598 minutes of league football this season

Ameobi? Has played 168 minutes of league football this season

Carr? Has played 246 minutes of league football this season. Played in 1 of our 3 clean sheets

Harper? Has played 9 league games this season. Conceded less goals than Given but was dropped as soon as Given was fit.

 

The easy target outfield players you've picked to blame (coincidentally none of which are Allardyce's signings ) have played a combined total of around 1600 minutes, or 18 games, ie equivalent to 1 player over the season.

 

I bet over half of every team we've put out are HIS signings ffs!

 

Once again I find myself nodding a lot at one of your posts.

[Guest Mantis]

I've never seen Shearer or Owen asked start out on the right side for any team.  They may have played in different formations but always as a central striker.  That is where Oba has been scoring his goals so why piss about?  As I said before the players look beat before they arrived at the stadium.  Why is that?  Points back to the Manager and coaches to me.

 

 

[Guest Knightrider]

 

 

Emre? Never fit.

Duff? Done f*** all for us.

Owen? Doesn't even want to be here.

Ameobi? f*** all.

Carr? Waste of space.

Harper? Content being number 2.

 

 

These are the players you're blaming for poor performances this season?

 

Emre? If he's never fit how is he affecting the performances? Has played 496 minutes of league football this season. 1 goal 4 assists - not bad for 5 1/2 games

Duff? Has played 100 minutes of league football this season

Owen? Has played 598 minutes of league football this season

Ameobi? Has played 168 minutes of league football this season

Carr? Has played 246 minutes of league football this season. Played in 1 of our 3 clean sheets

Harper? Has played 9 league games this season. Conceded less goals than Given but was dropped as soon as Given was fit.

 

The easy target outfield players you've picked to blame (coincidentally none of which are Allardyce's signings ) have played a combined total of around 1600 minutes, or 18 games, ie equivalent to 1 player over the season.

 

I bet over half of every team we've put out are HIS signings ffs!

 

I listed those players and then said the list goes on indicating I'm including them all in general. Those players just so happened to spring to mind more than others. My point still stands though which is that the players in GENERAL are set in their ways and haven't been challenged like this before so are either having none of it, in which case they can fuck right off, or are struggling to adjust in which case I'm patient enough to wait until they do adjust, or they simply are unable to in which case they will get peddled hopefully.

 

Regardless though, not being able to pass, control, shoot, cross or do the very basics is something that's down to them more than anyone or anything.

 

Smith's hesitancy to shoot isn't a tactic of the manager's. Martin's inability to control the ball or use his brain isn't a tactic of the manager's. The players' inability to pass the ball isn't a tactic of the manager's. The players' inability to compete against your Wigan's isn't a tactic of the manager, it may be a byproduct of his methods and tactics, but it's still no excuse when we're pitifully such an easy push over.

 

Anyway if you tried to look at these things and the overall picture more often, instead of trying to pull people's posts apart and questioning their motives for posting what they do, you may see things differently from time to time which may or may not help your own judgment and opinions. Certainly does me the world of good, allows me to detatch myself emotionally from things, otherwise I may be joining a good few others in slashing my wrists because we are 11th and lost to Wigan away...

[Guest Knightrider]

I've never seen Shearer or Owen asked start out on the right side for any team.  They may have played in different formations but always as a central striker.  That is where Oba has been scoring his goals so why piss about?  As I said before the players look beat before they arrived at the stadium.  Why is that?  Points back to the Manager and coaches to me.

 

 

 

Owen played wide right for Madrid numerous times, to good effect. Although I don't think using him there now after all his injuries would be wise and of course, Madrid had Raul and Ronaldo alongside him and were generally far superior to us at providing service to the forwards.

 

 

Shearer may never have started on the right or played any other role than the centre-forward role but he's a classic example of someone adjusting their game to fit. Again, is it too much to ask of players to adjust their game and try their hardest to make things work? Mentality has a lot to do with things. If a player goes into something in a negative frame of mind, he'll not perform as well as he could if he were in a positive frame of mind. For many of our players, you do get the impression that they don't look positively towards certain challenges. Remember N'Zogbia's little tiff with Roeder? He didn't take kindly to Duff's arrival which was in effect a challenge. Could the same thing but in a different context be a condition amongst the players with regards to Sam's methods and tactics? Of course it's also down to him to win them over and to convince them, but it takes two to tango.

[DubblyDubblyDubbly]

I'm in an industry where managers change every 18 months or so. When a cnut comes along that tries to knock  the team of 8  of us into shape we all keep our heads down and do as little as we can , knowing that the cnut will be gone in 18 months or less. The team performs far better  as a unit and get's better results when the manager of the time recognises the vast experience we have and involves us in any change. Managers are 10 a penny.... highly skilled workers are not. Sam is trying too hard to change too much....he's  lost the team and he's definitely a gonner. 

[Parky]

Fairly predicatable reaction: if the manager you back to the hilt doesn´t seem to get the team going, blame the players. With some of the baffling decisions by Allardyce, who can blame the players for not understanding or responding..

 

Baffling, what asking a player to play a few yards away from where he usually plays?

 

If Big Sam wants his head checked for playing Martins wide right, Martins wants f****** shot too for not being able to even do the basics. A bit of grass is a bit of grass, whether you're out wide or up front you should still be able to pass, control, dribble, cross etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, he's not making things any easier for the players but isn't it also his job to challenge them, to get them to do things they can't do or aren't used to? To improve them?

 

Milner has had no problems playing in a different position so I don't see why Martins shouldn't be able to adjust. In fact I don't want players at my club who can't, players who struggle badly when you ask them to do something different.

 

f*** them.

 

The point is that Managers have never asked the likes of Shearer, Owen, Rooney etc to play wide right, so why is Sam doing it with Oba and why are people surprised he looks out of place.  Dont you think this Owen would be pissed off if he was put out there?

 

One journalist wrote that the players getting off the coach at Wigan looked beat before they even entered the stadium.  That speaks volumes.  Get the square pegs in the square holes and stop f****** about.

 

 

A predominantly left footed forward (not winger) should technically be coming in from the right. SA is totally correct about this. Oba just doesn't know how to do it.

[Guest Knightrider]

Fairly predicatable reaction: if the manager you back to the hilt doesn´t seem to get the team going, blame the players. With some of the baffling decisions by Allardyce, who can blame the players for not understanding or responding..

 

Baffling, what asking a player to play a few yards away from where he usually plays?

 

If Big Sam wants his head checked for playing Martins wide right, Martins wants f****** shot too for not being able to even do the basics. A bit of grass is a bit of grass, whether you're out wide or up front you should still be able to pass, control, dribble, cross etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, he's not making things any easier for the players but isn't it also his job to challenge them, to get them to do things they can't do or aren't used to? To improve them?

 

Milner has had no problems playing in a different position so I don't see why Martins shouldn't be able to adjust. In fact I don't want players at my club who can't, players who struggle badly when you ask them to do something different.

 

f*** them.

 

The point is that Managers have never asked the likes of Shearer, Owen, Rooney etc to play wide right, so why is Sam doing it with Oba and why are people surprised he looks out of place.  Dont you think this Owen would be pissed off if he was put out there?

 

One journalist wrote that the players getting off the coach at Wigan looked beat before they even entered the stadium.  That speaks volumes.  Get the square pegs in the square holes and stop f****** about.

 

 

A predominantly left footed forward (not winger) should technically be coming in from the right. SA is totally correct about this. Oba just doesn't know how to do it.

 

The sad thing is it would probably benefit Martins a lot. However I doubt he has the brains or the full tools to ever be more than a moderate forward in any position, formation or system.

[Parky]

I thought the players were getting blamed as well as the gaffer.

 

They certainly are on the forums:

 

Given = shit, past it, cant save from distance, cant command area, also main troublemaker and genrally a mood cunt.

Harper = shit, unambitious, lazy, touches his arse before every goal kick...

Rozehnal = shit, weak, caught out too much

Taylor = shit, stupid, slow, wannabe hero, can't play on the right..

Enrique = spanish flop, shit against Liverpool,

Geremi = shit, cant do anything, as bad as Faye (Amady) runs on his heels often backwards, terminally shit at freekicks, corners and has a Columbo complex..

Milner = shit, cant cross, slower than my nan, beats a man too many times, misses sitters

Barton = shit, cant pass, gives it away, a danger to himself and others around him, nicks change out of the players coats in the changing rooms

Butt = shit, past it, can't pass it, still in love with Fergie, chips the ball almost anywhere..

Owen = crock, shit, selfish, loves himself, helicopter, horses, mummies boy..

Smith = shit, only knows how to get booked, cant score, awful midfielder, new haricut is awful, borderline gay...

Martins = shit, cant control, thick, runs anywhere, sulks, moans continually, dwarf,

Viduka = shit, fat, lazy, crock, stands totally still till he gets the ball...tries to beat 7 players rather than pass, no pace, no movement, earns way too much..

Ameobi = shit, cant do anything at all, controls the ball harder than he shoots, always smiling at god knows what...

 

Probably a summary of comments you will find from some/the majority (for certain players).

 

FYP.

[Keefaz]

I thought the players were getting blamed as well as the gaffer.

 

They certainly are on the forums:

 

Given = shit, past it, cant save from distance, cant command area

Harper = shit, unambitious, lazy

Rozehnal = shit, weak, caught out too much

Taylor = shit, stupid, slow, wannabe hero

Enrique = spanish flop, shit against Liverpool

Geremi = shit, cant do anything, as bad as Faye (Amady)

Milner = shit, cant cross, slower than my nan, beats a man too many times, misses sitters

Barton = shit, cant pass, gives it away

Butt = shit, past it, can't pass it

Owen = crock, shit

Smith = shit, only knows how to get booked, cant score, awful midfielder

Martins = shit, cant control, thick

Viduka = shit, fat, lazy, crock

Ameobi = shit, cant do anything at all, controls the ball harder than he shoots

 

Probably a summary of comments you will find from some/the majority (for certain players).

 

Quite a good summary, actually.

[9]

I thought the players were getting blamed as well as the gaffer.

 

They certainly are on the forums:

 

Given = shit, past it, cant save from distance, cant command area

Harper = shit, unambitious, lazy

Rozehnal = shit, weak, caught out too much

Taylor = shit, stupid, slow, wannabe hero

Enrique = spanish flop, shit against Liverpool

Geremi = shit, cant do anything, as bad as Faye (Amady)

Milner = shit, cant cross, slower than my nan, beats a man too many times, misses sitters

Barton = shit, cant pass, gives it away

Butt = shit, past it, can't pass it

Owen = crock, shit

Smith = shit, only knows how to get booked, cant score, awful midfielder

Martins = shit, cant control, thick

Viduka = shit, fat, lazy, crock

Ameobi = shit, cant do anything at all, controls the ball harder than he shoots

 

Probably a summary of comments you will find from some/the majority (for certain players).

 

Great summary, just shows big sam is doing a cracking job!

[Guest Knightrider]

Its the manager's job to motivate the players.

 

I dont think anyone would argue that Derby or Wigan have an equal first team on paper, let alone a better one. We have far superior and more talented players - so why are we so shit?

 

If its the players who arent pulling their weight, why arent they, and who's job is it to ensure that they are?

 

All roads lead to the manager imo.

 

All roads do lead to the manager but it isn't as simple is that. The players have to have a degree of self motivation from within if they are to perform to the best of their ability as an individual and especially as an athlete which is what players are today, without it they simply won't regardless of what the manager does or doesn't do. The manager can only tap into that self motivation and extend it/maintain it, usually by way of goal or target setting individually and as a team. I imagine the manager is still setting tasks, challenges, goals and targets to the team as individuals and the team but if there is a distinct lack of self motivation, then we're in trouble.

 

All is not lost though because it can be reclaimed or boosted back up, this is why managers take players away on bonding trips or simply bring in fresh new faces to give everyone a lift. Or they will try and get down to the bottom of things and this is where psychology comes in.

[Robster]

I thought the players were getting blamed as well as the gaffer.

 

They certainly are on the forums:

 

Given = shit, past it, cant save from distance, cant command area

Harper = shit, unambitious, lazy

Rozehnal = shit, weak, caught out too much

Taylor = shit, stupid, slow, wannabe hero

Enrique = spanish flop, shit against Liverpool

Geremi = shit, cant do anything, as bad as Faye (Amady)

Milner = shit, cant cross, slower than my nan, beats a man too many times, misses sitters

Barton = shit, cant pass, gives it away

Butt = shit, past it, can't pass it

Owen = crock, shit

Smith = shit, only knows how to get booked, cant score, awful midfielder

Martins = shit, cant control, thick

Viduka = shit, fat, lazy, crock

Ameobi = shit, cant do anything at all, controls the ball harder than he shoots

 

Probably a summary of comments you will find from some/the majority (for certain players).

 

Great summary, just shows big sam is doing a cracking job!

 

so surely its a managers and a coaches job to highlight these failings and work on them in training. isnt this the kind of thing we always see them jotting down.

 

For instance, Martins' touch. Surely therefore, they should be concentrating in training to give him 1-2-1 training on improving this.

They say Beckham honed his ability for free kicks and dead balls by just kicking ball after ball after ball when training had finished. I would be interested to know if Sam has sat down with Oba and asked him to stay behind to practice controlling balls that are whacked at him. Do this for an hour after training every day and any one of us would improve.

Footballers wont look at themselves and admit they have failings. Its the job of the manager to spot the flaws and to help them improve.

 

My guess would be that our players just arent practicing hard enough at what we arent best at. Be most interestd to know if this statement is wrong or not

 

[Guest RodrigoPalacio]

I'll still back Sam to an extent. We're not going to get anywhere sacking our manager every single fucking season.  And calling for Shearer as his replacement is even worse.  The blokes not managed before, and he clearly doesn't want to, yet.  I actually walked out at Wigan when 'we' started singing for him.  I felt embarrassed for all of Newcastle, not just the football team, but the city itself.  What image does it put out to the rest of the country, hearing us chant for him?  It puts out the message that Newcastle is a city full of complete and utter fucking morons, thats what.  Chanting for Martins too.  WHAT THE FUCK?  The bloke can't hit a barn fucking door from 2 yards, yet time and time again his name is belted out with the hope that he'll do something.  Well guess what?  He's wank.  Wake the fuck up.  Sick to death of the wankery coming from Newcastle fans of late, on and off this board.  No doubt I'll get the usual shite coming after this post.  Well, all I can say is, sorry for supporting the club to the extent that I do, and sorry for attempting to use my brain, instead of thinking with my heart all of the time, which I get the impression most of you lot do.

[Keefaz]

I'll still back Sam to an extent. We're not going to get anywhere sacking our manager every single fucking season.  And calling for Shearer as his replacement is even worse.  The blokes not managed before, and he clearly doesn't want to, yet.  I actually walked out at Wigan when 'we' started singing for him.  I felt embarrassed for all of Newcastle, not just the football team, but the city itself.  What image does it put out to the rest of the country, hearing us chant for him?  It puts out the message that Newcastle is a city full of complete and utter fucking morons, thats what.  Chanting for Martins too.  WHAT THE FUCK?  The bloke can't hit a barn fucking door from 2 yards, yet time and time again his name is belted out with the hope that he'll do something.  Well guess what?  He's wank.  Wake the fuck up.  Sick to death of the wankery coming from Newcastle fans of late, on and off this board.  No doubt I'll get the usual shite coming after this post.  Well, all I can say is, sorry for supporting the club to the extent that I do, and sorry for attempting to use my brain, instead of thinking with my heart all of the time, which I get the impression most of you lot do.

 

I agree with you, tbh. I don't think I'd have walked out, but the Shearer stuff is embarassing beyond belief.

[madras]

yes the players have to take a look at themselves but when the manager sends out teams like allardyce has you have to think someone else could do better with the tools at his disposal (every pun intended).

 

in the same way we can look at two different squads and rate them we all have opinions on certain players (beye can cover a number of positions where as owen i'd only play up front in a two.....milner can play either side but i wouldn't play n'zogbia on the right) so it then falls on the manager if he fucks up.

 

with roeder and souness (who both had horrific injury lists to contebd with....which the latter didn't help himself with)i could see what they were trying until the death throws of their respective terms...........with allardyce i'm at a complete loss.

[robbo_11]

I thought the players were getting blamed as well as the gaffer.

 

They certainly are on the forums:

 

Given = s***, past it, cant save from distance, cant command area

Harper = s***, unambitious, lazy

Rozehnal = s***, weak, caught out too much

Taylor = s***, stupid, slow, wannabe hero

Enrique = spanish flop, s*** against Liverpool

Geremi = s***, cant do anything, as bad as Faye (Amady)

Milner = s***, cant cross, slower than my nan, beats a man too many times, misses sitters

Barton = s***, cant pass, gives it away

Butt = s***, past it, can't pass it

Owen = crock, s***

Smith = s***, only knows how to get booked, cant score, awful midfielder

Martins = s***, cant control, thick

Viduka = s***, fat, lazy, crock

Ameobi = s***, cant do anything at all, controls the ball harder than he shoots

 

Probably a summary of comments you will find from some/the majority (for certain players).

 

Great summary, just shows big sam is doing a cracking job!

 

so surely its a managers and a coaches job to highlight these failings and work on them in training. isnt this the kind of thing we always see them jotting down.

 

For instance, Martins' touch. Surely therefore, they should be concentrating in training to give him 1-2-1 training on improving this.

They say Beckham honed his ability for free kicks and dead balls by just kicking ball after ball after ball when training had finished. I would be interested to know if Sam has sat down with Oba and asked him to stay behind to practice controlling balls that are whacked at him. Do this for an hour after training every day and any one of us would improve.

Footballers wont look at themselves and admit they have failings. Its the job of the manager to spot the flaws and to help them improve.

 

My guess would be that our players just arent practicing hard enough at what we arent best at. Be most interestd to know if this statement is wrong or not

 

 

Its an interesting debate.

Beckham was motivated enough to stay behind after training to practice his freekicks, whereas forcing a player to stay behind to work on his flaws is not likely to produce beneficial results. A player must be self motivated enough to want to improve their own game. Essentially it comes down to natural ability, but some skills can be learned rather than innate. Skills can be described as OPEN (changing environment) or CLOSED (fixed environment) and iwith football it will be OPEN skills. This is the reason why natural ability is integral and why staying behind after training and having a ball passed to the player 1000 times is not going to improve him.

 

Steiner's model of group productivity:

Actual productivity = Potential productivity - losses due to faulty processes.

 

Recent examples are Chelsea and Real Madrid. They have had massive resources to build world class squads, yet for other reason have been unable to perform to their potential. A major reason for Newcastle United to have not performed well in past seasons was injuries. This year the faulty processes is because we have had whole sale changes within a matter of months and there has been no familiarisation between players. Throw in a few indifferent performances from Cacapa (Pompey h), Rozehnal and Barton and the team can't produce to its maximum potential.

Social loafing, a performer 'hides' during a match, could be used to describe a few of our players with Obafemi Martins and Michael Owen being examples. For 80 minutes they will hardly be involved in the game, a few touches or occasional run with the ball, but they score a goal every few games and so they are great. They are two terrific players on their day, but have offered little else in recent games they have been involved in. 

[Parky]

''...social loafing''..

[Keefaz]

''...social loafing''..

 

I think that describes me quite well, tbh.

[madras]

''...social loafing''..

 

I think that describes me quite well, tbh.

na change it..too reminiscent of johnny vaughan strongbow ad's

[Mr Logic]

Brian Clough

[Guest Pie]

Fairly predicatable reaction: if the manager you back to the hilt doesn´t seem to get the team going, blame the players. With some of the baffling decisions by Allardyce, who can blame the players for not understanding or responding..

 

Baffling, what asking a player to play a few yards away from where he usually plays?

 

If Big Sam wants his head checked for playing Martins wide right, Martins wants f****** shot too for not being able to even do the basics. A bit of grass is a bit of grass, whether you're out wide or up front you should still be able to pass, control, dribble, cross etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, he's not making things any easier for the players but isn't it also his job to challenge them, to get them to do things they can't do or aren't used to? To improve them?

 

Milner has had no problems playing in a different position so I don't see why Martins shouldn't be able to adjust. In fact I don't want players at my club who can't, players who struggle badly when you ask them to do something different.

 

f*** them.

mental. What the fuck has he  contributed? Fuck all is the answer by the way. Just in case your deluded nonsense continues.