David James Article

[Thespence]

Wasnt going to post this as it very long & it will bore most people but it is worth reading & thinking about:

 

 

 

Years ago, the only statistic that counted in football was how many pints you could drink in a night. In those days you didn't have ProZone or Opta measuring every move of every player. You won and you celebrated, or you lost and you commiserated with each other. Either way, it was all reasonably simple.

 

These days, football is a very different beast. The English game is ever more Americanised in its obsession with stats. Top football clubs are now using a model of statistical analysis similar to that used by Billy Beane in Major League Baseball to tell us how we won, how we lost, how to pick the side, or even how to buy players.

 

Most people know that I like a stat or two, so I'm not dismissing their value. As a kid I spent hours poring over football annuals, obsessing over clean-sheets records, attendances and county-league statistics. But data is a complicated business. Statistics are meant to be absolute, but once you start asking how they have been collated, or what they mean, you find yourself needing not just one stat but several. You can see how I became obsessive.

 

As a young goalkeeper, it used to drive me crazy checking the paper to see my stats. I hardly had a save to make in the early days at Liverpool, and yet I had all those lovely clean-sheet records. Or there would be the rival goalie with five saves made, but four of them were from little more than back-passes. You see in Opta's data they don't differentiate a great save from an easy save - you get the same number of points for either - so who's the better goalkeeper, the one who catches 20 halfway-line chips, or the one who makes 10 six-yard point-blank blocks? You need the human element to define what is quality, and what is not.

 

Even if you did want to rely solely on stats to run your team, how accurate is the information if it is being assembled by human beings? Premier League stats are collated by people making decisions on what was a shot and what wasn't. Well, strewth, we should get them on the dubious goals panel if they're that good. It's all down to interpretation and human beings are prone to error. Often enough I've gone through my video review and found goal-kicks listed as throws - small mistakes that can create a misleading picture.

 

Peter Schmeichel best showed how numbers can be fiddled. Years ago there was a story going round that Schmeichel got the hump because of the introduction of ProZone, so decided to prove a point. The very next match, so the tale goes, every time the ball was down the other end, Schmeichel did sets of sprints across the edge of his area to raise his high-intensity running stats. Anyone watching probably thought: 'Oh look there's Schmeichel keeping himself warm'; but he ended up beating one of the forwards on stats for that game.

 

One problem with statistics is when they take precedence over common sense. Take Greg Ryan, the coach of the United States women's team, and his debacle at the World Cup this year. For the semi-final against Brazil, he demoted his number-one goalkeeper with 24 hours' notice, switching instead to Briana Scurry, who had not played a full game in three months. Ryan cited baseball-style statistics as he made his case for the change. But the US lost 4-0 to Brazil and all hell broke loose back home. Ryan clearly forgot one of football's greatest cliches: never change a winning team.

 

Yet in England we seem to be heading Ryan's way. I've heard that one top club pick their players on the basis of fitness data taken in training. They've spent millions in the transfer market, yet a heart monitor is going to tell them who makes the team sheet? Funnily enough, their league position isn't exactly stunning.

 

Fitness is never going to be the sole indicator of success. If you look at the recent ProZone stats comparing the Premier League with the Championship, footballers run more in the latter division. But they also give the ball away more. So is the unfit skilled player still better than the less skilled athlete? And do you try to get a skilful player fit or a fit player skilful? Last season we had Gary O'Neil and Matty Taylor doing 1,500 metres of high-intensity running in matches; one was sold, the other is now hardly used and we're enjoying our best season in years. Explain that.

 

Where does coaching, that age-old skill, come into all of this? If footballers are recruited on their statistical performances, then where is the opening for managers to coach the best out of a player? The young footballer who shows flashes of brilliance but needs an arm around the shoulder, or a kick up the backside, may never get a chance under a stats-obsessed manager. A decent old-school coach doesn't need to look at a load of stats to work out how good a player is. I certainly can't see Harry Redknapp doing it - he knows his players and he doesn't often buy a bad one.

 

Plus there's the issue of entertainment. If you had a team of reliables like Gary and Phil Neville - and I say this fondly - you'd be a bloody hard team to beat, but do you think you'd score many? Saying that, Phil Neville scored against me, and oh my gosh, it was the worst day of my life. At least he got one past Shay Given as well. But it's the Cristiano Ronaldos, however much they cost, who bring that bit of extra to change a game.

 

Beane's stats revolution may work for a team emerging from administration and needing a cost-efficient solution to get into the play-offs, but, like Beane's Oakland A's, they're never going to win the title. Pints aside, the only statistic that really counts in football is the result.

 

[Mowen]

Quite a good read, as usual, from James. Surprised at that sly dig at Taylor though.

[tmonkey]

Spot on.

 

Stats should be used to help improve a player, not judge him.

[Unbelievable]

Excellent read and he's spot on.

[Crumpy Gunt]

I've heard that one top club pick their players on the basis of fitness data taken in training. They've spent millions in the transfer market, yet a heart monitor is going to tell them who makes the team sheet? Funnily enough, their league position isn't exactly stunning

 

Can't think who that might be.

[tmonkey]

I've heard that one top club pick their players on the basis of fitness data taken in training. They've spent millions in the transfer market, yet a heart monitor is going to tell them who makes the team sheet? Funnily enough, their league position isn't exactly stunning

 

Can't think who that might be.

 

Oh noes! It must be...US!!

[BlueStar]

Well we're the only club I've read about using heart monitors in training.

[fredbob]

To be honest i think it could be us as well. I would explain the constant selcetion of players like Smith and Barton.....whi so far have grafted but havent brought any real quality.

[Guest Knightrider]

Like everything in life, all in moderation. It's how you use such things too.

 

 

[gray]

you know, what, i think its us you know!

[Wullie]

I'd be surprised if it wasn't us tbh. Would explain the constant chopping and changing too as much as anything.

[Guest Knightrider]

I'd be surprised if it wasn't us tbh. Would explain the constant chopping and changing too as much as anything.

 

Could explain Enrique's absence from the first-team, he must be a lazy bastard in training.

[Robster]

If this is us, isnt this absolutely terrifying as to what the future is goiing to bring ?

[Mowen]

I've heard that one top club pick their players on the basis of fitness data taken in training. They've spent millions in the transfer market, yet a heart monitor is going to tell them who makes the team sheet? Funnily enough, their league position isn't exactly stunning

 

How is everyone reacting so much to this?

[Dave]

I've heard that one top club pick their players on the basis of fitness data taken in training. They've spent millions in the transfer market, yet a heart monitor is going to tell them who makes the team sheet? Funnily enough, their league position isn't exactly stunning

 

How is everyone reacting so much to this?

 

[Guest kingdawson]

I'd be surprised if it wasn't us tbh. Would explain the constant chopping and changing too as much as anything.

 

Its more likely us tbh. In fact im sure it is.

[Mowen]

Robbo and Huddlestone are certainly looking more 'streamlined' these days.... is that just since Ramos came in?

[Guest Knightrider]

I've heard that one top club pick their players on the basis of fitness data taken in training. They've spent millions in the transfer market, yet a heart monitor is going to tell them who makes the team sheet? Funnily enough, their league position isn't exactly stunning

 

How is everyone reacting so much to this?

 

Because it fits in with peoples' agendas or lack of understanding about these things.

[Thespence]

I've heard that one top club pick their players on the basis of fitness data taken in training. They've spent millions in the transfer market, yet a heart monitor is going to tell them who makes the team sheet? Funnily enough, their league position isn't exactly stunning

 

How is everyone reacting so much to this?

 

Because it fits in with peoples' agendas or lack of understanding about these things.

 

See what a few days of board/bored debating with NE5 does to ya.

[hallihg]

With all of Big Sam's sport science mumbojumbo it wouldnt be surprising if it was us, making heart monitors tell us which players to use.

[Guest Knightrider]

Not really, I hate it when people assume the worst in NUFC and look to pin any blame or fault on the club from such trivial things.

 

It says a lot when people put faith in what David James says.

 

Who is more successful at running a football club, James or Sam Allardyce? Which clubs use Prozone and other technology? All of them. Like I said it's how people use such things and what areas.

 

All I know is Bolton were one of the fittest teams that didn't suffer many injuries, a club whose players often performed to a high standard on a consistent basis.

[Guest kingdawson]

Robbo and Huddlestone are certainly looking more 'streamlined' these days.... is that just since Ramos came in?

 

Plain and simply YES. Both were fat porkers before which was tolerated by the old regime even though there performances were also shite but the new fitness coach Ramos brought in is doing wonders. James is clearly directing that comment at us which dosnt really make much sense as theres definatly been an improvement since Ramos took over.

[Thespence]

Which clubs use Prozone and other technology? All of them.

 

12 use Prozone, wonder what the other products are.

[Mowen]

Robbo and Huddlestone are certainly looking more 'streamlined' these days.... is that just since Ramos came in?

 

Plain and simply YES. Both were fat porkers before which was tolerated by the old regime even though there performances were also shite but the new fitness coach Ramos brought in is doing wonders. James is clearly directing that comment at us which dosnt really make much sense as theres definatly been an improvement since Ramos took over.

 

I think that's why people are guessing it's directed at us; Sam is very high profile in his use of ProZone/Heart monitors etc., and there hasn't been a noticable improvement yet. Can't believe anyone would get particularly wound up over what he's 'heard' though

[Thespence]

Robbo and Huddlestone are certainly looking more 'streamlined' these days.... is that just since Ramos came in?

 

Plain and simply YES. Both were fat porkers before which was tolerated by the old regime even though there performances were also s**** but the new fitness coach Ramos brought in is doing wonders. James is clearly directing that comment at us which dosnt really make much sense as theres definatly been an improvement since Ramos took over.

 

The food at the at your training ground was meant be like a takeaway shop before Ramos took over. But then you look at Jol & diet may not of been top of his list personally or professionally.