Training during the Allardyce years at Bolton.

[Parky]

....Ok this is a sneaky way of me starting a topic I'm perhaps wary of addressing directly. 

 

Players fined for dribbling.

A list of things a player could do/couldn't do in ANY given area of the park.

No shooting from range and a fine on match days for doing so.

The quickest route to get the ball into the so called danger areas.

Choreographed set plays repeated over and over.

Defensive mindsets taking priority over open thinking.

Creativity discouraged if it meant losing the ball.

Over obsession with fitness to the enth degree.

 

etc....

[NG32]

Players fined for dribbling.

A list of things a player could do/couldn't do in ANY given area of the park.

No shooting from range and a fine on match days for doing so.

The quickest route to get the ball into the so called danger areas.

Choreographed set plays repeated over and over.

Defensive mindsets taking priority over open thinking.

Creativity discouraged if it meant losing the ball.

Over obsession with fitness to the enth degree.

 

We have proof that this actually happend in Boltons training?

[Dave]

Thread over.

[Parky]

Players fined for dribbling.

A list of things a player could do/couldn't do in ANY given area of the park.

No shooting from range and a fine on match days for doing so.

The quickest route to get the ball into the so called danger areas.

Choreographed set plays repeated over and over.

Defensive mindsets taking priority over open thinking.

Creativity discouraged if it meant losing the ball.

Over obsession with fitness to the enth degree.

 

We have proof that this actually happend in Boltons training?

 

Awaiting satellite telemetry. 

[Parky]

Thread over.

 

Silly remark.

[Guest neesy111]

the one about being fined for long shots was true, got reported a few years back

[Tooj]

....Ok this is a sneaky way of me starting a topic I'm perhaps wary of addressing directly. 

 

Players fined for dribbling.

A list of things a player could do/couldn't do in ANY given area of the park.

No shooting from range and a fine on match days for doing so.

The quickest route to get the ball into the so called danger areas.

Choreographed set plays repeated over and over.Defensive mindsets taking priority over open thinking.

Creativity discouraged if it meant losing the ball.

Over obsession with fitness to the enth degree.

 

etc....

 

Fancy us trying to gain an advantage over set pieces eh?

[Mowen]

Very subtle Parky.

[Guest Knightrider]

And yet it all worked.

 

I think there are a lot of myths regarding Big Sam's methods and ways. Sir Les hailed his training sessions as the best he's seen, as did Gary Speed. I doubt your foreign players like Okocha and Anelka would strive under such conditions either.

 

All I've heard is that Big Sam's sessions are tougher, longer, more complex and more game orientated that usual sessions, this coming from the likes of Speed et al.

[Parky]

Very subtle Parky.

 

My middle name chap.

[Parky]

And yet it all worked.

 

I think there are a lot of myths regarding Big Sam's methods and ways. Sir Les hailed his training sessions as the best he's seen, as did Gary Speed. I doubt your foreign players like Okocha and Anelka would strive under such conditions either.

 

All I've heard is that Big Sam's sessions are tougher, longer, more complex and more game orientated that usual sessions, this coming from the likes of Speed et al.

 

Very defensive minded all the same though.

[Guest Knightrider]

And yet it all worked.

 

I think there are a lot of myths regarding Big Sam's methods and ways. Sir Les hailed his training sessions as the best he's seen, as did Gary Speed. I doubt your foreign players like Okocha and Anelka would strive under such conditions either.

 

All I've heard is that Big Sam's sessions are tougher, longer, more complex and more game orientated that usual sessions, this coming from the likes of Speed et al.

 

Very defensive minded all the same though.

 

Yet Bolton were considered an aggressive attacking team that boxed the opposition in and tried to keep them there which their results suggested too.

[Parky]

And yet it all worked.

 

I think there are a lot of myths regarding Big Sam's methods and ways. Sir Les hailed his training sessions as the best he's seen, as did Gary Speed. I doubt your foreign players like Okocha and Anelka would strive under such conditions either.

 

All I've heard is that Big Sam's sessions are tougher, longer, more complex and more game orientated that usual sessions, this coming from the likes of Speed et al.

 

Very defensive minded all the same though.

 

Yet Bolton were considered an aggressive attacking team that boxed the opposition in and tried to keep them there which their results suggested too.

 

Have you fallen for the..."My success at Bolton"...line? 

 

 

 

FWIW

 

THere are a lot of good things about his training methods, but imo they do tend to suffocate the art of football over the science and stats approach. Just my opinion. No biggie.

[Robster]

And yet it all worked.

 

I think there are a lot of myths regarding Big Sam's methods and ways. Sir Les hailed his training sessions as the best he's seen, as did Gary Speed. I doubt your foreign players like Okocha and Anelka would strive under such conditions either.

 

All I've heard is that Big Sam's sessions are tougher, longer, more complex and more game orientated that usual sessions, this coming from the likes of Speed et al.

 

Was just going to mention him. That lad was pure skill and flair. Didnt look like Sam tried to stifle him at all.

Plus, Youri Djorkaeff was a skillful lad too

[nufc4eva]

he never tried to stifle anelka or diouf either. He wanted to keep a good structure and press the ball when the oppo had it and box teams in but you could see once they were on top of a team they started to play and ripped into teams at times

[Dragon55544]

The fines for long shots has been blown out of proportion, If i remember correctly it was a way for raising money for charity, If a player didnt get a long shot on target or something like that then he would have to put money (£10 i think) in a jar and then at the end of the season they would give it to charity. Nothing wrong with that imo

[nufc4eva]

Oh and personally I would love us to play with the high tempo and be dangerous from every situation which bolton were

[Rich]

Sounds more like a Jose Mourinho training session to me.

[lovejoy]

if you got fined for dribbling, how/why did okocha showboat so much? just watched season 02/03 and he used to do it week in, week out.

 

he scored some screamers as well, must have knocked his wages a canny bit.

[Dave]

At the end of the day that list (if true) was about one thing - making it hard for other teams to break Bolton down.

 

What's worrying is that we're not even that. If we were progressively solid as fuck at the back I'd accept a lack of attacking ambition until we had that base to work on, but we're not. We have better personnel IMO, but we're just as shite at holding on to possession and preventing sloppy goals as we've been for yonks. Only now we're not trying to score either.

[Rich]

At the end of the day that list (if true) was about one thing - making it hard for other teams to break Bolton down.

 

What's worrying is that we're not even that. If we were progressively solid as fuck at the back I'd accept a lack of attacking ambition until we had that base to work on, but we're not. We have better personell IMO, but we're just as shite at holding on to possession and preventing sloppy goals as we've been for yonks. Only now we're not trying to score either.

 

I see what you're saying, but at Bolton Allardyce usually had a solid, settled back-four. He hasn't had that here.

 

Stuff like this is where I can give Fat Sam some breathing space, because I believe his "excuses" about injuries and the foreign players needing time to adapt make sense and can be justified. In my eyes, in the Premiership, you live and die by your central defensive pairing above all else. We haven't had a central defensive pairing, per se, for bloody years.

 

If Sam can limp through until next season then I would hope to see our defending improve as we go, if it hasn't done so to a degree where we can see it in the performances/stats then I'll start criticising him for it.

[Dave]

Allardyce is as responsible for the chopping and changing of the central defence in particular as anyone tbf. Yeah we've had injuries, but we've also dropped players left right and centre on a weekly basis.

[Guest alex]

Aye, all the 'Newcastle fans would like to see their team win 5-3 every week' and similar cliched bollocks that is regularly spouted in the media seems to turn a blind eye to the fact that, on top of not playing any decent attacking football our defence looks completely porous. The vast majority of sports journalism is so lazy it's untrue. They can't all be Hugh McIlvaney and Brian Glanville I know but ffs, is a bit of objectivity too much to ask? Rhetorical question, obviously.

[Rich]

Allardyce is as responsible for the chopping and changing of the central defence in particular as anyone tbf. Yeah we've had injuries, but we've also dropped players left right and centre on a weekly basis.

 

He has no excuse for certain decisions he's made, like Taylor after Citeh and Rozehnal previous to that after one blunder, but for the most part he's struggled because 3 of our centre halves have had some pretty sizeable injuries over the season so far. I'm not sure if I'd call it a "weekly basis", but you're certainly not wrong.

 

I still reckon he's trying to figure out his best back four, and that he'll only have more of a headache after Faye's performance as the anchor against Chelsea. Then there's the bloody ACN coming up, as well...

 

Interestingly, what would people go for, if they had their say? If you could pick the back four in the knowledge that they'd play together from here until the end of the season: Beye, Faye, Rozehnal, Enrique would probably be mine. The season's a write-off as far as I can see now, it's mid-table, why not just try and get the players adjusted to the league in time for next season?

 

I genuinely just hope some of them will do an "Evra/Vidic", though do appreciate it's a hell of a lot easier to settle in at Man Utd.

[Guest Knightrider]

And yet it all worked.

 

I think there are a lot of myths regarding Big Sam's methods and ways. Sir Les hailed his training sessions as the best he's seen, as did Gary Speed. I doubt your foreign players like Okocha and Anelka would strive under such conditions either.

 

All I've heard is that Big Sam's sessions are tougher, longer, more complex and more game orientated that usual sessions, this coming from the likes of Speed et al.

 

Very defensive minded all the same though.

 

Yet Bolton were considered an aggressive attacking team that boxed the opposition in and tried to keep them there which their results suggested too.

 

Have you fallen for the..."My success at Bolton"...line? 

 

 

 

FWIW

 

THere are a lot of good things about his training methods, but imo they do tend to suffocate the art of football over the science and stats approach. Just my opinion. No biggie.

 

What Big Sam achieved at Bolton is often overlooked, he took a tiny club up from the championship, saved them from relegation back down and then took them to the heady heights of 6th and European football all on a budget of basically nothing. Year on year they improved in all areas, regularly beat or matched the big boys and attracted a whole host of top names to the Reebok. He also elongated the careers of several past their best stars. And I bet his training methods had a great deal to do with things.

 

I know he didn't win anything but what he did was pretty much on a par with what KK did for us, rebuilt us and took us to the very top. 6th and European football being the top for Bolton.

 

In those years Newcastle went from bad to worse despite an average budget of £8m per season, 50,000 plus crowds and the ability to sign some of the game's biggest names or better players.

 

Furthermore, in his time at Bolton he went from an oldskool manager who preferred to kick arse and bully players to get results into a sophisticated manager clued up in all modern aspects of the game.

 

He deserves respect and far more slack than what he's currently had at Newcastle, a club who Big Sam has had more success than in the last 4 years.

 

Any manager that turns Michael Ricketts into an international, can get an extra 4 years out of Gary Speed, can attract players like Djorkaef, Okocha and Anelka to the Reebok, turn around the careers of wasters like Diouf, beats Man Utd on their own ground, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and our very own club, constantly overachieves and can sniff out bargains like Bolton's 'keeper, deserves massive respect and credit.

 

People also forget where Big Sam has come from, the Irish league all the way into Europe, he's managed at every level bar international.

 

He's no mug.