madras Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 SELL! at the right price Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonufc Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 If we want a consistent premier league striker then Darren Bent is a good shout... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonMonty Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 If we want a consistent premier league striker then Darren Bent is a good shout... has pace and happy to play up there on his own, but would be very dependent on price for me and as Spurs paid at least twice what he was worth I think their ego would demand most of it back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrette Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 If we want a consistent premier league striker then Darren Bent is a good shout... If they were happy to take a huge loss, yes... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maze Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 I don't think we should sell Oba Martins. - Tottenham are selling Berbatov for no less than £35 mill. - Would Villa sell Agbonlahor or swop him for Martins? - Why don't SGE go for OWen instead? or Swop Elano for Martins? He might have had a bit of an inconsistent season for us, and this might be because of BSA tactics, but we know what he capable of. And he is the least inj prone striker we have atm, and is the only striker in our sqd who can *guarantee goals. * as if Owen, Viduka or Shola really guarantees anything or than injury. Don't sell him unless we get BIG BIG money, cause he has a great prospect. Also if we are to sell him, we shouldn't do so until the summer - not in january! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 think martins is comfortably a bit better than defoe, tho quite similar players. funnily enough for those who think Martins plays like a headless chicken and fails to link up with team-mates, defoe is even worse in this respect, his touch is just as erratic, while he's also appreciably slower, with worse movement, much weaker, and not half as good in the air. in other elements they are close, propensity to wild shots from distance, often miss easier chances, both put their head down and try to play on their own. anyway defoe is just a name plucked out the air, can't see allardyce touching him, nor spurs selling him for less than 9 or 10 mil in this market. He gets into goalscoring positions though, he's much more of a poacher so doesn't rely on the attributes you listed (your comparison is bollocks as well imo) as much as Martins who doesn't get into the positions so because of that is seen as a second striker type player, which again he simply doesn't have the attributes to play. Defoe will get into the box, try shots and generally be in an around the area sniffing for chances, that's what Martins doesn't do, and that is why he is a better striker than Martins imo. I think we could get him if honest, I highly doubt Spurs would hold out for the amount you mentioned. spurs want £35m for berbatov and spent £16m on bent, and held out for over £18m on carrick( and that's before transfer inflation kicked in) which shows how much they value players, both coming in and going out. they won't be letting defoe go cheap, tho that is besides the point as he is a player plucked out the air who e havent been linked with and who i dont see allardyce buying. for some reason people are holding his name up as a replacement which is why i made a "bollocks" comparison. defoe might stay more centrally than martins but i see that as a weakness in comparison, rather than a strength, as martins can stretch teams far more while defoe, even tho you say is a poacher, does not have good close range finishing, he's more of a head down and blast it player, funnily enough exactly like martins. as for being around the box trying for chances, that's also what martins does, he had about 3 or 4 speculative chances in 45 minutes in our last game, along with one good chance, so you can hardly accuse him of not getting in amonhgst the chances. if anything he's more been criticised for not taking those chances that he does create, but then the same can be levelled at defoe, who unlike martins, doesn;t have other things to his game which he can fall back on. id say defoe is a bit better running down the middle and anticipating a long ball but that's about it and this advantage doesn't exactly translate into a bucketload of extra goals. i don't think defoe will get more goals than martins, he's been playing in a very attacking team the past few years (scored more than man utd and same as arsenal this year) yet hasn't been especially more prolific. don't get me wrong i think defoe is a big talent, even if he hasn;t fulfilled his potential and is a couple years older than martins, but if people think he is better it's just another example of the grass being greener elsewhere. kaka, who said we're relying on martins to score all our goals? if you are relying on any player inthe world to score all your goals, you'll end up frustrated as that is a daft thing to hope. it's youre attacking him cos he doesn't score all of our goals, then you're holding him up to a ridiculous and unrealistic standard. as it happens we could easily play martins alongside viduka, and play with a couple of attacking midfielders and hope all of them score a healthy amount rather than just heap all our goalscoring onto one player. i also don't get the point about him being a better player in a team that plays better football, that is true for every footballer alive. i'd also say martins is the better player for a team playing poorly as his pace and movement will always create space and openings, for himself and others, whereas defoe will more be relying on the delivery of others. why all the haste to get rid of our top scorer? especially when we'rnot blessed with attacking talent or pace in forward areas, surely we should be keeping talented young players like martins and building a squad rather than selling from such a weak position. i don't think selling martins than spending the same amount on a player like defoe will do us any good tbh, and that's optimistically thinking allardyce would go out and buy a suitable replacement rather than repeat his mistakes from the summer, which is a more likely outcome. likewise with milner, who i dont particularly rate, we should be keeping him and buying someone better, so milner can be kept as a squad filler who can come in and do a job now and again. selling milner for say £6m and buying a player for £4m just so we raise £2m and have the same sized squad (an equivalent to selling martins and buying defoe) is small time thinking. 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Guest Brazilianbob Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Allardyce will sell martins because he is considered a flair striker and there is no room for a flair striker in Sams percentage football. It stands to reasons doesn't it, we have already seen most of our flair players leave. Dyer and Solano both said they needed to move south for family reasons, but I suspect they knew the writing was on the wall and that Sam would not be picking them on a regular basis once he got his huff and puff players through the doors at SJP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tuppence Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 13 million , crazy money for such a bad player. Snap their hands off. I'd take about 5m for him . Awful footballer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Allardyce will sell martins because he is considered a flair striker and there is no room for a flair striker in Sams percentage football. What would you call Diouf and Anelka? Or Mario Jardel? Or Okocha, Djorkaef, Campo, Stelios... hardly grafters are they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkhead Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 13 million , crazy money for such a bad player. Snap their hands off. I'd take about 5m for him . Awful footballer. and then what, genius? are you prepared to watch Ameobi and Viduka for the rest of the season? or you're hoping that Owen won't be injured no more? or are we buying fucking Leo Messi instead? Martins is the best striker the club has bought in the last 10 years, what gives you lunatics confidence that there's even a remote chance Allardyce of all managers will replace him with somebody better? in the position that we are atm? fuck you all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 13 million , crazy money for such a bad player. Snap their hands off. I'd take about 5m for him . Awful footballer. and then what, genius? are you prepared to watch Ameobi and Viduka for the rest of the season? or you're hoping that Owen won't be injured no more? or are we buying fucking Leo Messi instead? Martins is the best striker the club has bought in the last 10 years, what gives you lunatics confidence that there's even a remote chance Allardyce of all managers will replace him with somebody better? in the position that we are atm? fuck you all Some offers are too good to turn down for chairmen/managers, like Woodgate's to Madrid. Bellamy was/is better than Martins as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 He'd do well at Villa with their counter attacking football. Yepp! I love Obafemi as a player. But his carreer will soon be ruined if he stays with NUFC. I would love to see some magic from Martins in the future. So far Sam sticks with the S*** tactics, it won't happen in NUFC. So it's allmost I hope - but that doesn't mean I like it - Martins gets a club where they play attacking football. He deserves to show his qualities you'll all be kicking yourselves if he moves to another club in england - put martins in a team with (a) a coach that can drill some runs into him, remind him how to make the best of his pace and (b) have the players/tactics to best exploit that pace and he WILL score a lot of goals and be dangerous does no-one think coaching is necessary any more? he's patently not had any since he left inter so is it any surprise his game is getting poorer? martins needs to be put through the middle and his sole purpose needs to be using his pace to unsettle defenders with better runs, stretching defences and creating space for others...he'd gain confidence and start scoring again right now he's being asked to play like a winger and the only time he sees the ball it's going over his head, flying at him at chest height on the wing, or he's got his back to the goal on the touchline the best thing for martins would be to leave NUFC if allardyce stays, if allardyce goes we need to keep him and get a coach who can improve players, not just piss and moan because those players can't play his "system" 10m too much, get a fuken grip man...we paid 6m for smith for christ'ss sake, is someone trying to tell me 10m is too much for martins in this climate? clowns You can't coach the basics to a player that is 23, they either have it or they don't by this age. The only thing you can do with Martins is improve his effectiveness, however that's not going to be easy because his strengths are so few. He has lots of pace and is two footed, he's also a powerful shooter and has a good leap on him. Other than that however he's mediocre to average in other aspects of his game. You try and build a team around pace (but no brains to make the most of it), powerful shooting and a decent leap on him. You can't. The best place for Martins is coming off the bench, however because all of our other strikers are either injury prone, immobile or crap, he starts or should start. Ideally though he needs replaced because we need more from a striker, someone who can hold the ball up, play others in, someone with good movement and a degree of intelligence. There is a reason why Martins is so inconsistent and that's because he only has one or two strengths so unless a game is tailor made for his strengths, he's going to blow hot and cold as games demand more from him, like holding the ball up intelligently, playing others in, springing off-side traps, using the channels, playing on the last man's shoulder, dropping deep and other things in which a game can ask of you as a footballer. And that's not even going into first touch... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 He'd do well at Villa with their counter attacking football. Yepp! I love Obafemi as a player. But his carreer will soon be ruined if he stays with NUFC. I would love to see some magic from Martins in the future. So far Sam sticks with the S*** tactics, it won't happen in NUFC. So it's allmost I hope - but that doesn't mean I like it - Martins gets a club where they play attacking football. He deserves to show his qualities you'll all be kicking yourselves if he moves to another club in england - put martins in a team with (a) a coach that can drill some runs into him, remind him how to make the best of his pace and (b) have the players/tactics to best exploit that pace and he WILL score a lot of goals and be dangerous does no-one think coaching is necessary any more? he's patently not had any since he left inter so is it any surprise his game is getting poorer? martins needs to be put through the middle and his sole purpose needs to be using his pace to unsettle defenders with better runs, stretching defences and creating space for others...he'd gain confidence and start scoring again right now he's being asked to play like a winger and the only time he sees the ball it's going over his head, flying at him at chest height on the wing, or he's got his back to the goal on the touchline the best thing for martins would be to leave NUFC if allardyce stays, if allardyce goes we need to keep him and get a coach who can improve players, not just piss and moan because those players can't play his "system" 10m too much, get a fuken grip man...we paid 6m for smith for christ'ss sake, is someone trying to tell me 10m is too much for martins in this climate? clowns You can't coach the basics to a player that is 23, they either have it or they don't by this age. The only thing you can do with Martins is improve his effectiveness, however that's not going to be easy because his strengths are so few. He has lots of pace and is two footed, he's also a powerful shooter and has a good leap on him. Other than that however he's mediocre to average in other aspects of his game. You try and build a team around pace (but no brains to make the most of it), powerful shooting and a decent leap on him. You can't. The best place for Martins is coming off the bench, however because all of our other strikers are either injury prone, immobile or crap, he starts or should start. Ideally though he needs replaced because we need more from a striker, someone who can hold the ball up, play others in, someone with good movement and a degree of intelligence. There is a reason why Martins is so inconsistent and that's because he only has one or two strengths so unless a game is tailor made for his strengths, he's going to blow hot and cold as games demand more from him, like holding the ball up intelligently, playing others in, springing off-side traps, using the channels, playing on the last man's shoulder, dropping deep and other things in which a game can ask of you as a footballer. And that's not even going into first touch... Wouldn't it make more sense to get rid of the injury prone players first? Or the likes of Ameobi and Smith who are clearly not good enough? It seems to me people think we can get better for the money which I agree with, however getting rid of Martins while the likes of Owen, Smith and Ameobi stay seems crazy and I have no faith in Allardyce to replace him properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieDazzler Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 SELL! at the right price Shirley 13m is the right price? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lee-T Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/yourclub/newc/latestnews Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 He'd do well at Villa with their counter attacking football. Yepp! I love Obafemi as a player. But his carreer will soon be ruined if he stays with NUFC. I would love to see some magic from Martins in the future. So far Sam sticks with the S*** tactics, it won't happen in NUFC. So it's allmost I hope - but that doesn't mean I like it - Martins gets a club where they play attacking football. He deserves to show his qualities you'll all be kicking yourselves if he moves to another club in england - put martins in a team with (a) a coach that can drill some runs into him, remind him how to make the best of his pace and (b) have the players/tactics to best exploit that pace and he WILL score a lot of goals and be dangerous does no-one think coaching is necessary any more? he's patently not had any since he left inter so is it any surprise his game is getting poorer? martins needs to be put through the middle and his sole purpose needs to be using his pace to unsettle defenders with better runs, stretching defences and creating space for others...he'd gain confidence and start scoring again right now he's being asked to play like a winger and the only time he sees the ball it's going over his head, flying at him at chest height on the wing, or he's got his back to the goal on the touchline the best thing for martins would be to leave NUFC if allardyce stays, if allardyce goes we need to keep him and get a coach who can improve players, not just piss and moan because those players can't play his "system" 10m too much, get a fuken grip man...we paid 6m for smith for christ'ss sake, is someone trying to tell me 10m is too much for martins in this climate? clowns You can't coach the basics to a player that is 23, they either have it or they don't by this age. The only thing you can do with Martins is improve his effectiveness, however that's not going to be easy because his strengths are so few. He has lots of pace and is two footed, he's also a powerful shooter and has a good leap on him. Other than that however he's mediocre to average in other aspects of his game. You try and build a team around pace (but no brains to make the most of it), powerful shooting and a decent leap on him. You can't. The best place for Martins is coming off the bench, however because all of our other strikers are either injury prone, immobile or crap, he starts or should start. Ideally though he needs replaced because we need more from a striker, someone who can hold the ball up, play others in, someone with good movement and a degree of intelligence. There is a reason why Martins is so inconsistent and that's because he only has one or two strengths so unless a game is tailor made for his strengths, he's going to blow hot and cold as games demand more from him, like holding the ball up intelligently, playing others in, springing off-side traps, using the channels, playing on the last man's shoulder, dropping deep and other things in which a game can ask of you as a footballer. And that's not even going into first touch... Wouldn't it make more sense to get rid of the injury prone players first? Or the likes of Ameobi and Smith who are clearly not good enough? It seems to me people think we can get better for the money which I agree with, however getting rid of Martins while the likes of Owen, Smith and Ameobi stay seems crazy and I have no faith in Allardyce to replace him properly. I'd rather have Smith up front than Martins if I'm honest, although only alongside a goalscorer as he offers far more in terms of all-round game. However we don't have such a goalscorer, well we do but he's a crock, wants out and I'd personally flog him ahead of any of them, but that's another matter. For now, if we are to keep Martins, I'd actually partner Smith to him and use Viduka and Owen as their backups if you like. In the long run though we need several good strikers if we are to become a top 6 side again and while all our strikers can be considered good as individuals in certain ways (Ameobi not included) Viduka is in his 30s and can't keep himself fit, Owen wants out and has his fitness problems too, plus his game is getting worse, not better, Smith doesn't score goals and Martins' all-round game is poor. In that sense our strikeforce is rather weak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WashyGeordie Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/yourclub/newc/latestnews Ludacris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 SELL! at the right price Shirley 13m is the right price? There has to be a reason why Martins is being linked to all these big clubs. If there are better options out there then why arent these clubs out there looking at Martins going after them? This is all a load of bollocks. At the mo, Martins is our best striker, we arent a club that needs to sell, so why not look to make Martins the worst striker at the club. Keep Martins please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 I'd rather have Smith up front than Martins if I'm honest Get help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 I agree with HTT that overall our strike force is very weak. 2 are highly talented but are "past-it". The other is inconsistent and 2 are arguably shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 For £13million i'd somewhat reluctantly let him go. I would hope we could sell Owen as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 I'd rather have Smith up front than Martins if I'm honest Get help. The only thing Martins has over Smith is goals, in terms of all-round game though I think you'll find Martins to be the shit player, yet laughingly you class Smith as one when Martins couldn't tie his laces in terms of holding up the ball, playing others in, control, passing, even movement. You know, things players are meant to be able to do, strikers certainly. And what good is the odd goal if you're constantly on the backfoot because the striker up front is useless when he's not scoring the odd goal, or stuck in a midfield battle because you don't have an outlet. Not very as we're finding out. And no I'm not laying all our fault at Martin's door. He's not the answer though but he is part of the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Oh and I actually like Martins and rate him slightly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 That's what he does whenever Martins attempts to control the ball, funny enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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