Howaythelads Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 [ From what you've posted I think we're close to agreement, you just haven't posted it such a straightforward way. Ameobi isn't good enough for what we want and that Luque is a waste of space. To suggest Ameobi is only good enough to be a squad player is something I'd agree with right now, and that Luque doesn't fancy English footballl is spot on, in my OPINION. No, in fact we are miles apart. While you and FOOTSOLDIER are intent on looking at the negative qualities of said players, I am prepared to look at the positive, i.e, Shola's local links, recent goals record, running ability, etc... Luque's undoubted class, finishing ability, and the rest. You and Footsoldier are in agreement also, correct? Earlier you said.... Ameobi has played 200 matches, true - but quite a few of those have been from the subs bench or out wide. I would argue that his contribution is anything but poor in matches. He has won us a fair few pens and free kicks running at defenders and his recent goalscoring record has been ok.]He's not a top class striker by any means but a useful squad player IMO. Luque on the other hand is clearly a high class player, anyone who saw his goal will appreciate that except for the most blinkered. looks to me like he doesn't fancy English football though which makes him an expensive luxury. We do agree, unless you want to retract the bits I've put in bold. You just have a 'more gentle' way of writing it, especially the bit about the heartless Spaniard. Well I've bolded the bits you seem to have missed just to show another perspective, pretty much different from yours with all respect. bluebiggrin.gif I read all of your post the first time, I didn't miss anything. :winking: The fact is, everything has a bottom line, which is the crux of it all and is the really IMPORTANT bit. We agree that Ameobi isn't good enough for our ambitions and we agree Luque is unlikely to do the business for Newcastle because "he doesn't fancy it". Wrong. Ameobi might not be good enough for our ambitions, but he's a useful squad player as he has proved recently. Robbie Elliott wasn't good enough for our ambitions either last season yet no one is pointing out his lack of quality are they? And if Luque doesn't "fancy it", why did Fat Fred bring him here? We agree on the first bit in bold. He's ok for 4th choice right now, so useful squad player. Is this the same 'Fat Fred' who recently brought Duff to the club because the current manager wanted him to? I expect the answer to your question is that 'Fat Fred' brought Luque to the club because the manager at that time wanted Luque as a replacement for Laurent Robert. I'd say the blame for bringing to the club someone without hunger to play for us rests with the manager. I know you won't agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 I'd say the blame for bringing to the club someone without hunger to play for us rests with the manager. I know you won't agree. Fair enough. By extension though, the blame for bringing a recognisably shit manager to the club rests with the Chairman. I know you won't agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 What are we going to do about Luque then ? He cannot work of a long ball, and if you had been to the training session you would have seen he is shit at getting onto crosses to, out of the all the crosses they fired in from wide left and right he got otno 2 and that was with no defenders just him and Shola running in while Duff, Carr, Milner, Zoggy fired the crosses in. He cannot get the ball to feet everytime on the edge of the box, he is trying much harder now for the team but we are only going to be able to play one way if we want him in the game. Shola dropps deep leaving Luque alone, he needs Shola close to him to set him up, trouble is Shola aint that great in the air and when he does win th ball he wants to dribble past everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 I'd say the blame for bringing to the club someone without hunger to play for us rests with the manager. I know you won't agree. Fair enough. By extension though, the blame for bringing a recognisably shit manager to the club rests with the Chairman. I know you won't agree. And you'd be wrong, because I do agree. I've already said this probably a couple of dozen times when the topic comes up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 What are we going to do about Luque then ? He cannot work of a long ball, and if you had been to the training session you would have seen he is shit at getting onto crosses to, out of the all the crosses they fired in from wide left and right he got otno 2 and that was with no defenders just him and Shola running in while Duff, Carr, Milner, Zoggy fired the crosses in. He cannot get the ball to feet everytime on the edge of the box, he is trying much harder now for the team but we are only going to be able to play one way if we want him in the game. Shola dropps deep leaving Luque alone, he needs Shola close to him to set him up, trouble is Shola aint that great in the air and when he does win th ball he wants to dribble past everyone. Well it seems he needs a team to be built around him, there's no way I'd want to see us do that because he just doesn't justify that kind of reaction. He needs to be moved on and we need a replacement who is able to make a contribution within the way Roeder wants the team to play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 What are we going to do about Luque then ? He cannot work of a long ball, and if you had been to the training session you would have seen he is shit at getting onto crosses to, out of the all the crosses they fired in from wide left and right he got otno 2 and that was with no defenders just him and Shola running in while Duff, Carr, Milner, Zoggy fired the crosses in. He cannot get the ball to feet everytime on the edge of the box, he is trying much harder now for the team but we are only going to be able to play one way if we want him in the game. Shola dropps deep leaving Luque alone, he needs Shola close to him to set him up, trouble is Shola aint that great in the air and when he does win th ball he wants to dribble past everyone. To be fair to HTL, u were asking for it right there. Its like handing him a gun and saying shoot me blueyes.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 What are we going to do about Luque then ? He cannot work of a long ball, and if you had been to the training session you would have seen he is shit at getting onto crosses to, out of the all the crosses they fired in from wide left and right he got otno 2 and that was with no defenders just him and Shola running in while Duff, Carr, Milner, Zoggy fired the crosses in. He cannot get the ball to feet everytime on the edge of the box, he is trying much harder now for the team but we are only going to be able to play one way if we want him in the game. Shola dropps deep leaving Luque alone, he needs Shola close to him to set him up, trouble is Shola aint that great in the air and when he does win th ball he wants to dribble past everyone. We need to actually start playing Football for a start, because at the moment most of our players seem stuck in "Shearer's up front" mode. Luque doesn't need a team built around him, he just needs to be playing in a position he knows and in a team that at least try to play Football. He's not a center forward and never has been, he can play off a good center forward (either as a second striker or as a wing foward in a forward three) or in behind but not in place of one.. His strengths and weaknesses were pretty obvious just from watching the Villareal game (but its been the same in all the games this pre-season). When he was stuck in the box by himself with crosses flying in he looked lost. It was only when he started to drop deep and pick the ball up outside the box that he started to look good. With some clever quick passing, good touches and a couple of good runs. The way I see it no matter what happens we need a top striker here for the new season, I think everyone agrees with that. So the question becomes, do you look for a striker who can work with Ameobi or with Luque? Because IMO depending on the answer you'd be looking for two different players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted August 6, 2006 Share Posted August 6, 2006 What are we going to do about Luque then ? He cannot work of a long ball, and if you had been to the training session you would have seen he is shit at getting onto crosses to, out of the all the crosses they fired in from wide left and right he got otno 2 and that was with no defenders just him and Shola running in while Duff, Carr, Milner, Zoggy fired the crosses in. He cannot get the ball to feet everytime on the edge of the box, he is trying much harder now for the team but we are only going to be able to play one way if we want him in the game. Shola dropps deep leaving Luque alone, he needs Shola close to him to set him up, trouble is Shola aint that great in the air and when he does win th ball he wants to dribble past everyone. We need to actually start playing Football for a start, because at the moment most of our players seem stuck in "Shearer's up front" mode. Luque doesn't need a team built around him, he just needs to be playing in a position he knows and in a team that at least try to play Football. He's not a center forward and never has been, he can play off a good center forward (either as a second striker or as a wing foward in a forward three) or in behind but not in place of one.. His strengths and weaknesses were pretty obvious just from watching the Villareal game (but its been the same in all the games this pre-season). When he was stuck in the box by himself with crosses flying in he looked lost. It was only when he started to drop deep and pick the ball up outside the box that he started to look good. With some clever quick passing, good touches and a couple of good runs. The way I see it no matter what happens we need a top striker here for the new season, I think everyone agrees with that. So the question becomes, do you look for a striker who can work with Ameobi or with Luque? Because IMO depending on the answer you'd be looking for two different players. Hmmm......I don't think his best role is playing off the front man, he looks to me like a wide man. We don't need him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Looking more and more likely he's on his way out now, oh well... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Looking more and more likely he's on his way out now, oh well... Good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kenton Magpie Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Looking more and more likely he's on his way out now, oh well... Good. I'll second that, shola can follow too, if only we were not short of strikers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Monkey Posted August 10, 2006 Share Posted August 10, 2006 Looking more and more likely he's on his way out now, oh well... Good. I'll second that, shola can follow too, if only we were not short of strikers Damned right. Although we currently don't have any anyway, in fairness. Not good ones, anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 If we can keep the ball on the deck (a definite possibility with the quality in our starting midfield four), Luque and Martins could be something like Luque's partnership with Eto'O at Mallorca. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ShearersElbow Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 We can dream, though I really think he could be going now, I'd say it's 50/50. Roeder is sensible enough to know that it wasn't worth playing him against this two-bob team thus making his value depreciate. Doesn't neccarsarily mean clubs are in for him though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shido Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 If we can keep the ball on the deck (a definite possibility with the quality in our starting midfield four), Luque and Martins could be something like Luque's partnership with Eto'O at Mallorca. Exactly! Just like Luque and Tristan at Depor as well. But even if we get martins in Roeder won't play luque...he'll play shola every time..... Luque needs to do what Saha did last season and steal the show from Shola....but he can't do that without faith.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ridzuan Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I cannot believe that Luque didnt play any part in yesterday's match because if he was playing,I think we could have won with a bigger margin.On the positive side of things,I think Glenn is not risking him because the Premiership is going to start soon and he knows that Luque will play an important role this season and he doesnt want him to get injured yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gemmill Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I cannot believe that Luque didnt play any part in yesterday's match because if he was playing,I think we could have won with a bigger margin. Aye there's plenty evidence to support that theory like. :confused: On the positive side of things,I think Glenn is not risking him because the Premiership is going to start soon and he knows that Luque will play an important role this season and he doesnt want him to get injured yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I cannot believe that Luque didnt play any part in yesterday's match because if he was playing,I think we could have won with a bigger margin. Aye there's plenty evidence to support that theory like. :confused: On the positive side of things,I think Glenn is not risking him because the Premiership is going to start soon and he knows that Luque will play an important role this season and he doesnt want him to get injured yesterday. Gem you know my position on Luque but even I had to at the saving him for the Premiership bit. Roeder wants him out and if we could get >5M, then I would not have so much of a problem. As it is, we will flog him for 2-3M and thats poor management. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ridzuan Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 Glenn must be completely out of his mind if he is deciding on selling our future star,Luque.Give him a little bit more of time and he will prove that he will be our number one striker.We will regret if we sell him,just like we did with Bellamy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocho Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I cannot believe that Luque didnt play any part in yesterday's match because if he was playing,I think we could have won with a bigger margin.On the positive side of things,I think Glenn is not risking him because the Premiership is going to start soon and he knows that Luque will play an important role this season and he doesnt want him to get injured yesterday. Mebbe Roeder wants to offload him and doesn't want to de-value him by having him cup tied out of the UEFA cup? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I cannot believe that Luque didnt play any part in yesterday's match because if he was playing,I think we could have won with a bigger margin. Im neither for or against Luque but what makes you say this ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 I cannot believe that Luque didnt play any part in yesterday's match because if he was playing,I think we could have won with a bigger margin.On the positive side of things,I think Glenn is not risking him because the Premiership is going to start soon and he knows that Luque will play an important role this season and he doesnt want him to get injured yesterday. Weapons Grade Horse Shit. He has never showed anything to suggest this in a competitive game for us as yet so what makes you think he would now. It was the right decision not to play him to make sure he isn't cup tied before the close of the transfer window. I've got no doubt the lad has talent, but i do doubt whether he has the heart and desire to utilise that talent for us. Wrong player at the wrong club at the wrong time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigTrev Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 he played in the intototo didn`t he does that not mean he is cup tied for europe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 he played in the intototo didn`t he does that not mean he is cup tied for europe No the intertoto Cup doesn't matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted August 11, 2006 Share Posted August 11, 2006 he played in the intototo didn`t he does that not mean he is cup tied for europe No, the inter toto doesn't count. UEFA Qualifiers do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts