Two Players We Still Haven't Replaced

[TRon]

I thought Jenas stagnated and so had to go. I was actually pretty happy that we managed to fetch £7m for him, and as good as he's playing now, does anyone think that he would be playing well if he was here? He doesn't have the balls to dominate the midfield, doesn't have the vision to spray passes around and he would have been another average center midfielder if he was still here. On a tangential note, Parker's habit of passing the ball backwards was very reminiscent of Jenas' attitude on attacking and we all know how effective he was.

 

We missed Bellamy dearly (and still do) and I think KK should make a move for him this summer. He's still injury-prone but I'd take him for anything up to £7m. He's still a very underrated player and he'd jump at the chance to come back here, no doubt about that. Only 28 as well. He'd be the perfect partner for Owen if we want to play expansive attacking football.

 

Jenas stagnated? Who's playing in his position now? Fucking Nicky Butt, and the £7m we got for Jenas, £6m was wasted on Smith. Fantastic busines that was.

 

 

[Taylor Swift]

It was fantastic business selling Jenas for £7m. I was, and still am, very pleased that we got that much for a player who attempted a sum total of zero forward passes in his last 2 years at the club.

 

Just because he's a better player now (or just in form) doesn't mean that he would have gone the same way if he stayed. Even the captain's armband couldn't help him raise his game.

 

And I haven't said anything about Nicky Butt, and neither have I mentioned Alan Smith so I have no idea why you decided to talk about them...

[TRon]

The 2 players that i think signify the downfalls of the club on 2 seperate occasions would be Ferdinand and Speed. Speed probably the most important player to directly effect the team but Ferdinand obviously for the significants of his departure and the fall out from it.

 

Ferdinand was a good sale at the time. We got decent money for a player at his best who never did anything of note afterwards.

 

Speed did ok with Bolton who were perfectly suited to his talents. Good business on both accounts IMO.

 

I have to disagree with you there completely, the point with Ferdinand was that he was doing something here, bare in mind it was his sale that forced keegans hand.  You dont under any circumstance sell players who are scoring for you. That was probably one of the best partenerships this club has ever had, why break it up?

 

Also Speed was insrtrumental for our side, was a very very important player, when we sold him the sides perfomances suffered alot. Was also a very mature head in a relatively young side.

 

The business is alway bad if you sell players who affect your team, irrespective of the cash.

 

During our "nearly season" Ferdinand and Lee scored for fun early season during easy fixtures then the goals dried up when the heat was on. They went missing while Roy Keane, a defensive midfielder drove Man U to the title, leading by example and goals when needed. That's what I remember.

[TRon]

It was fantastic business selling Jenas for £7m. I was, and still am, very pleased that we got that much for a player who attempted a sum total of zero forward passes in his last 2 years at the club.

 

Just because he's a better player now (or just in form) doesn't mean that he would have gone the same way if he stayed. Even the captain's armband couldn't help him raise his game.

 

And I haven't said anything about Nicky Butt, and neither have I mentioned Alan Smith so I have no idea why you decided to talk about them...

Jenas played the holding/defensive MF role under SBR. Who plays that role now? Nicky Butt. We sold Jenas for £7m, since then we have bought Alan Smith for £6m.

 

Where were we then?  Where are we now?

[Taylor Swift]

It was fantastic business selling Jenas for £7m. I was, and still am, very pleased that we got that much for a player who attempted a sum total of zero forward passes in his last 2 years at the club.

 

Just because he's a better player now (or just in form) doesn't mean that he would have gone the same way if he stayed. Even the captain's armband couldn't help him raise his game.

 

And I haven't said anything about Nicky Butt, and neither have I mentioned Alan Smith so I have no idea why you decided to talk about them...

Jenas played the holding/defensive MF role under SBR. Who plays that role now? Nicky Butt. We sold Jenas for £7m, since then we have bought Alan Smith for £6m.

 

Where were we then? Where are we now?

 

No. Jenas was carried by Speed. Whenever Speed was out (as rare as it was), Jenas wasn't himself. When Speed left, Jenas became even shittier than he was. Obviously this is relative i.e. his shit is not equal to Alan Smith shit, but the point stands, his form deteriorated over the last couple of seasons of his stay and we got good money for him. That, to me, is good business.

 

What we did with the money we got for him is another business altogether which is why I don't understand why you've mentioned Butt and Smith. Actually, if you were to truly consider Jenas' situation with consideration for his replacement, you'd have to realize that the £7m went towards signing Scott Parker, who was as good as Jenas (the version of him that we saw in the last couple of seasons) imo.

[madras]

before clicking into this thread i thought "fucking stupid,trying to replace like for like" then i lookd at the two players in question and take it back. i'm not one to say "told you so" or owt like that but.....you  know theres a "but" coming...but they were "the" midfielders" not as today attacking or defensive...they done both and read the game to cover for others (and others of those teams done it for them).

 

 

team players in a team game.

[Guest KeithKettleborough]

The 2 players that i think signify the downfalls of the club on 2 seperate occasions would be Ferdinand and Speed. Speed probably the most important player to directly effect the team but Ferdinand obviously for the significants of his departure and the fall out from it.

 

Ferdinand was a good sale at the time. We got decent money for a player at his best who never did anything of note afterwards.

 

Speed did ok with Bolton who were perfectly suited to his talents. Good business on both accounts IMO.

 

I have to disagree with you there completely, the point with Ferdinand was that he was doing something here, bare in mind it was his sale that forced keegans hand.  You dont under any circumstance sell players who are scoring for you. That was probably one of the best partenerships this club has ever had, why break it up?

 

Also Speed was insrtrumental for our side, was a very very important player, when we sold him the sides perfomances suffered alot. Was also a very mature head in a relatively young side.

 

The business is alway bad if you sell players who affect your team, irrespective of the cash.

 

During our "nearly season" Ferdinand and Lee scored for fun early season during easy fixtures then the goals dried up when the heat was on. They went missing while Roy Keane, a defensive midfielder drove Man U to the title, leading by example and goals when needed. That's what I remember.

 

Certainly Les went off the boil during the crucial run in but I think many of that team did. Man U tended to win 1-0 Cantona and they also had a keeper who seemed to be using radar and stopped anything going into the net

[Guest Dr. Richard Kimble]

http://www.sporting-heroes.net/files_football/BATTY_David_19981108_NF_L.jpg

 

Never been the same since he left.

[Cronky]

It was fantastic business selling Jenas for £7m. I was, and still am, very pleased that we got that much for a player who attempted a sum total of zero forward passes in his last 2 years at the club.

 

Just because he's a better player now (or just in form) doesn't mean that he would have gone the same way if he stayed. Even the captain's armband couldn't help him raise his game.

 

And I haven't said anything about Nicky Butt, and neither have I mentioned Alan Smith so I have no idea why you decided to talk about them...

Jenas played the holding/defensive MF role under SBR. Who plays that role now? Nicky Butt. We sold Jenas for £7m, since then we have bought Alan Smith for £6m.

 

Where were we then?  Where are we now?

 

No. Jenas was carried by Speed. Whenever Speed was out (as rare as it was), Jenas wasn't himself. When Speed left, Jenas became even shittier than he was. Obviously this is relative i.e. his shit is not equal to Alan Smith shit, but the point stands, his form deteriorated over the last couple of seasons of his stay and we got good money for him. That, to me, is good business.

 

What we did with the money we got for him is another business altogether which is why I don't understand why you've mentioned Butt and Smith. Actually, if you were to truly consider Jenas' situation with consideration for his replacement, you'd have to realize that the £7m went towards signing Scott Parker, who was as good as Jenas (the version of him that we saw in the last couple of seasons) imo.

 

Jenas did well at first, and then - as is the way with young, developing players  - he needed to be given more responsibility and put in the anchor role instead of Speed. Souness didn't have sufficient confidence in him to do that, and he ended up being played all over the place. His game declined, the fans started to get at him, and naturally he wanted out. Souness was aware of his potential though, and wanted him to stay.

 

Sometimes, with young players, you have to take a step back to take two steps forward down the line. We didn't do that with Jenas.

[Baggio]

Jenas was wank for about 2 years before he left apart from a slight lift in form when Souness came in, if anything Robson refusing to drop him made the problem worse.

[TRon]

Jenas was wank for about 2 years before he left apart from a slight lift in form when Souness came in, if anything Robson refusing to drop him made the problem worse.

 

Jenas was played on the right too much to accomodate Bowyer, hardly surprising our football suffered as a result. I will say even now he is back playing for England, I still have doubts about Jenas being tough enough mentally, but as a footballer he's got all the tools. SBR said just recently that he was sad to see Jenas leaqve Newcastle because he knew what he brought to the team. What we are missing now basically and that is legs in the engine room.

[johnnypd]

jenas was fine on the right, went on his scoring run early on here from that position and pushed solano out of the side for a while. he was fine there because it gave him attacking licence to make runs forward, which is what he is best at, and not have to worry so much about defending, at which he is piss-poor. robson's mistake was to mold him as a speed replacement and play him in an anchor role when he wasn't suited to that position.

 

when souness came in, after a couple of games in odd positions he played attacking midfielder and played well there until Dyer returned. almost to the exact moment Dyer was subbed on Jenas was playing well, and then his game suffered. i used to think it was something to do with Dyer being a malign influence but looking back it was because jenas had to curtail his instinctive attacking game when Dyer was on the pitch. as an attacking midfielder Jenas is better than anything we have at the club and is physically in a different league to plodders like butt, smith or barton.

[Guest toonlass]

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/cerkir/ALBERT_Phil_19980830_NF_R.jpg

[NE5]

Dyer, Robert, Bellamy and Jenas were all let go by dour football specialists. You tell me if we are better off now.

 

I just love these hindsight merchants.

 

The vast majority of the clubs supporters - and on here - fully supported the sales of all these 4 players. And for what its worth, I agreed with the sale of Jeanarse and the sale of Dyer, being a massively underachieving prick for the club, who had pace but ended up with a terrible attitude whereby he was just no use to us anymore.  I would not have sold Robert and Bellamy though, particularly Bellamy, and I had loads of grief for saying so at the time on here too.

 

 

There is no hindsight here mate. Like SBR, a true football genius, I defended Dyer and Jenas while they were here because I rated their ability and athleticism, while narrow-minded cunts (no one in specific I should add) carried out hate campaigns online and offline which made it inevitable they would leave. I said so at the time, if you like, I can find the posts, assuming they are still searchable.

 

 

well, as has been said by others, selling Jeanarse was a good deal at the time. He had no future at Newcastle left, and neither did Dyer.

 

Having ability is a totally different thing to performing and showing it. In both of their cases, they were shot, didn't produce anymore and weren't going to.

 

 

[AlanSkÃrare]

Can't say I think we've replaced any of these to gentlemen..

 

http://www.championshipmanager.co.uk/images/img_53.jpg

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Dyer, Robert, Bellamy and Jenas were all let go by dour football specialists. You tell me if we are better off now.

 

I just love these hindsight merchants.

 

The vast majority of the clubs supporters - and on here - fully supported the sales of all these 4 players. And for what its worth, I agreed with the sale of Jeanarse and the sale of Dyer, being a massively underachieving prick for the club, who had pace but ended up with a terrible attitude whereby he was just no use to us anymore.  I would not have sold Robert and Bellamy though, particularly Bellamy, and I had loads of grief for saying so at the time on here too.

 

 

There is no hindsight here mate. Like SBR, a true football genius, I defended Dyer and Jenas while they were here because I rated their ability and athleticism, while narrow-minded cunts (no one in specific I should add) carried out hate campaigns online and offline which made it inevitable they would leave. I said so at the time, if you like, I can find the posts, assuming they are still searchable.

 

 

well, as has been said by others, selling Jeanarse was a good deal at the time. He had no future at Newcastle left, and neither did Dyer.

 

Having ability is a totally different thing to performing and showing it. In both of their cases, they were shot, didn't produce anymore and weren't going to.

 

 

Also, we don't see them every week so they seem better than they are. Witness people bigging-up Titus Bramble this season

[TRon]

Dyer, Robert, Bellamy and Jenas were all let go by dour football specialists. You tell me if we are better off now.

 

I just love these hindsight merchants.

 

The vast majority of the clubs supporters - and on here - fully supported the sales of all these 4 players. And for what its worth, I agreed with the sale of Jeanarse and the sale of Dyer, being a massively underachieving prick for the club, who had pace but ended up with a terrible attitude whereby he was just no use to us anymore.  I would not have sold Robert and Bellamy though, particularly Bellamy, and I had loads of grief for saying so at the time on here too.

 

 

There is no hindsight here mate. Like SBR, a true football genius, I defended Dyer and Jenas while they were here because I rated their ability and athleticism, while narrow-minded cunts (no one in specific I should add) carried out hate campaigns online and offline which made it inevitable they would leave. I said so at the time, if you like, I can find the posts, assuming they are still searchable.

 

 

well, as has been said by others, selling Jeanarse was a good deal at the time. He had no future at Newcastle left, and neither did Dyer.

 

Having ability is a totally different thing to performing and showing it. In both of their cases, they were shot, didn't produce anymore and weren't going to.

 

 

Also, we don't see them every week so they seem better than they are. Witness people bigging-up Titus Bramble this season

 

I don't say either Jenas or Dyer are fantastic players. I like Robson's view of the bigger picture, and he liked players with pace and good engines. I said when we sold Jenas and when we sold Dyer we would lose mobility unless it was replaced. Now we have Barton and Duff in the middle hovering static round the centre circle - are we better off? The league table doesn't show it.

 

[Guest float one in]

before clicking into this thread i thought "f****** stupid,trying to replace like for like" then i lookd at the two players in question and take it back. i'm not one to say "told you so" or owt like that but.....you  know theres a "but" coming...but they were "the" midfielders" not as today attacking or defensive...they done both and read the game to cover for others (and others of those teams done it for them).

 

 

team players in a team game.

 

Aye, it's funny how the job of midfielders has changed at the highest levels isn't it? Used to be that the midfielders were 'complete' players, who could both get forward and back. RObert Lee was a great passer and good goal scorer, but I also remember him being one of the hardest tacklers around for a lot of years. Now you've got the specialised attackign and defensive players, prime example being Chelsea with Makelele and Lampard. Even the likes of Peter Reid, who was essentially a ball winner, still got forward (not neccesarliy scoring but supporting the attacks). And Souness, who everyone seems to remember as a ball winner, was a mint passer.

I play in midield on Saturdays and Sundays and I know people start screaming blue murder if I'm not supporting attacks and getting back - I wonder why its changed at Premier and Champions League level?  Maybe its a more European thing to have defensive midfielders - when you think of the likes of Tigana and Deshchamps, they never used to get much further forward than the half way line (only seen Tigana on videos mind but can't think of another example off the top of me head).

[Guest Knightrider]

before clicking into this thread i thought "f****** stupid,trying to replace like for like" then i lookd at the two players in question and take it back. i'm not one to say "told you so" or owt like that but.....you  know theres a "but" coming...but they were "the" midfielders" not as today attacking or defensive...they done both and read the game to cover for others (and others of those teams done it for them).

 

 

team players in a team game.

 

Aye, it's funny how the job of midfielders has changed at the highest levels isn't it? Used to be that the midfielders were 'complete' players, who could both get forward and back. RObert Lee was a great passer and good goal scorer, but I also remember him being one of the hardest tacklers around for a lot of years. Now you've got the specialised attackign and defensive players, prime example being Chelsea with Makelele and Lampard. Even the likes of Peter Reid, who was essentially a ball winner, still got forward (not neccesarliy scoring but supporting the attacks). And Souness, who everyone seems to remember as a ball winner, was a mint passer.

I play in midield on Saturdays and Sundays and I know people start screaming blue murder if I'm not supporting attacks and getting back - I wonder why its changed at Premier and Champions League level?  Maybe its a more European thing to have defensive midfielders - when you think of the likes of Tigana and Deshchamps, they never used to get much further forward than the half way line (only seen Tigana on videos mind but can't think of another example off the top of me head).

 

I blame modern coaching on younger ages. The likes of Lee et al grew up playing in all kinds of positions so they could do it all, today kids are groomed to play a certain role or to be a certain type of player, the majority of them anyway. This is why we are getting specialised players and roles in teams. Rob Lee wasn't a brilliant footballer in terms of skill or flair but he knew the game inside out as a midfielder because as a kid he wasn't pigeon holed.

[Guest float one in]

before clicking into this thread i thought "f****** stupid,trying to replace like for like" then i lookd at the two players in question and take it back. i'm not one to say "told you so" or owt like that but.....you  know theres a "but" coming...but they were "the" midfielders" not as today attacking or defensive...they done both and read the game to cover for others (and others of those teams done it for them).

 

 

team players in a team game.

 

Aye, it's funny how the job of midfielders has changed at the highest levels isn't it? Used to be that the midfielders were 'complete' players, who could both get forward and back. RObert Lee was a great passer and good goal scorer, but I also remember him being one of the hardest tacklers around for a lot of years. Now you've got the specialised attackign and defensive players, prime example being Chelsea with Makelele and Lampard. Even the likes of Peter Reid, who was essentially a ball winner, still got forward (not neccesarliy scoring but supporting the attacks). And Souness, who everyone seems to remember as a ball winner, was a mint passer.

I play in midield on Saturdays and Sundays and I know people start screaming blue murder if I'm not supporting attacks and getting back - I wonder why its changed at Premier and Champions League level?  Maybe its a more European thing to have defensive midfielders - when you think of the likes of Tigana and Deshchamps, they never used to get much further forward than the half way line (only seen Tigana on videos mind but can't think of another example off the top of me head).

 

I blame modern coaching on younger ages. The likes of Lee et al grew up playing in all kinds of positions so they could do it all, today kids are groomed to play a certain role or to be a certain type of player, the majority of them anyway. This is why we are getting specialised players and roles in teams. Rob Lee wasn't a brilliant footballer in terms of skill or flair but he knew the game inside out as a midfielder because as a kid he wasn't pigeon holed.

 

Could well be mate, could well be. I don't know how they're coached these days (or even how they used to be coached!) so will take your word for it.

[Spider Jerusalem]

http://www.sporting-heroes.net/files_football/FERDINAND_Les_19970413_NF_L.jpg

 

Great business from Fat Fred - six million for a player 'of his age' and have spent around ten times that trying to find a replacement.

 

completely predictable that you blame Fat Fred, when it was absolutley nothing to do with him

 

What a moron

 

 

 

A fine reposte I must say.  A better reply would have been 'ah ha you foolish fool, but Fat Fred replaced Sir John a mere four months after the sale of Ferdinand' - it would have been a lot better than resorting to childish 'personal abuse'.  Are you really 53?

 

So getting the timeline of events of a four month period from ten and a half years ago makes someone a moron.  Fine.

 

Since you have quoted me twice in this thread I would assume that you are trying to start one of the flame wars that have occurred (you started) in any other thread where anyone dares to criticise Freddy Shepherd.  Not going to happen, this is the last reply to you in this thread or any other from myself. I have only replied to this due to the base nature of your reply, as to be honest as soon as I see your sepia tinted avatar I will generally just scroll down and ignore what you have posted due to the fact that it will generally be defending the undefendable and telling us that pre-1992 St James park was home to nothing but thieving gypsies, taking from the club and giving nothing back, sacrificing virgins and raping goats to satisfy their pagan gods.

 

Anyway, no hard feelings as I leave a parting gift.  As you appear to be a fairly agressive person, I leave a picture of your beloved to allow you to 'relieve' the anger built up inside.

 

http://soccernet-akamai.espn.go.com/design05/DJ/20070502/shepherd_meg.jpg

 

He must be laughing as his company has made a loss, but have paid out a dividend to shareholders.

[NE5]

http://www.sporting-heroes.net/files_football/FERDINAND_Les_19970413_NF_L.jpg

 

Great business from Fat Fred - six million for a player 'of his age' and have spent around ten times that trying to find a replacement.

 

completely predictable that you blame Fat Fred, when it was absolutley nothing to do with him

 

What a moron

 

 

 

A fine reposte I must say.  A better reply would have been 'ah ha you foolish fool, but Fat Fred replaced Sir John a mere four months after the sale of Ferdinand' - it would have been a lot better than resorting to childish 'personal abuse'.  Are you really 53?

 

So getting the timeline of events of a four month period from ten and a half years ago makes someone a moron.  Fine.

 

Since you have quoted me twice in this thread I would assume that you are trying to start one of the flame wars that have occurred (you started) in any other thread where anyone dares to criticise Freddy Shepherd.  Not going to happen, this is the last reply to you in this thread or any other from myself. I have only replied to this due to the base nature of your reply, as to be honest as soon as I see your sepia tinted avatar I will generally just scroll down and ignore what you have posted due to the fact that it will generally be defending the undefendable and telling us that pre-1992 St James park was home to nothing but thieving gypsies, taking from the club and giving nothing back, sacrificing virgins and raping goats to satisfy their pagan gods.

 

Anyway, no hard feelings as I leave a parting gift.  As you appear to be a fairly agressive person, I leave a picture of your beloved to allow you to 'relieve' the anger built up inside.

 

http://soccernet-akamai.espn.go.com/design05/DJ/20070502/shepherd_meg.jpg

 

He must be laughing as his company has made a loss, but have paid out a dividend to shareholders.

 

you're absolutely incorrect, pretty much like all the other long distance "supporters" of the football club, only attracted to the club by the people you slate ie the Halls and Shepherd.

 

A cast iron FACT, which you can of course hold a different, but laughable "opinion" for as long as you wish, is that since the Halls and Shepherd took over the club and rescued them from imminent bankruptcy whatever people such as mick says, this club has achieved the highest league positions, the most european qualifications and the biggest gates since the 1950's.

 

End of story I'm afraid.

 

Anything you say that disputes this is shot to shit and in the shredder.

 

My concern is solely with the interests of the football club. You may not like it if someone who has upset your feelings has in fact ran the club when it achieved the 3 highest consecutive league positions in 50 years, but its a fact and its your problem if you wish to pretend it never happened.

 

Similarly, my comment that started this interchange between us ie your claim that Freddie Shepherd is responsible for the sale of Les Ferdinand, is absolutely incorrect. He had absolutely nothing to do with it, and I would say that it is pretty much the most pathetic thing I've ever read on here, that you claim this and even more so that you are now attempting to say otherwise and justify your comment when I suspect deep down you know that I have shown you up to be a bit of an arsehole and won't admit that your comment is totally incorrect.

 

One last thing is I have no wish to instigate a "flame war" as you put it. I'm just telling you have spouted a load of crap, which I hope that other people such as yourself who hardly see the team play never mind have any knowledge of it, don't take on board for the very reason that its completely incorrect and a load of crap.

 

 

[TRon]

it's funny how NE5 wants to associate Fat Fred with Chairman Hall, during the successful period, but wants to blame Hall for the shite decisions made by Shepherd when he was made Chairman.

[madras]

A cast iron FACT, which you can of course hold a different, but laughable "opinion" for as long as you wish, is that since the Halls and Shepherd took over the club and rescued them from imminent bankruptcy whatever people such as mick says, this club has achieved the highest league positions, the most european qualifications and the biggest gates since the 1950's.

 

all completly true, but unfortunatly fred was taking us back to whence we came both on and off the pitch....thats why I say he had to go.

[NE5]

it's funny how NE5 wants to associate Fat Fred with Chairman Hall, during the successful period, but wants to blame Hall for the shite decisions made by Shepherd when he was made Chairman.

 

another fairly basic point. My point has always been that no single one person ever made these big decisions all on their own, particularly when the person said to have done it by those like yourself wasn't even the biggest shareholder.

 

This has been said on numerous occasions.

 

Responding to people who slate Shepherd, and even make things up as Spider jerusalem did with his claim that he was responsible for losing Les Ferdinand such is the desperation of some people to blame him for anything they can think of, is simply just a reply stating facts where people are incorrect, or misrepresenting something. Nothing more and nothing less.