If Martins is again dropped for the next match...

[Guest alex]

11 goals was a decent return like. Not great but canny all things considered.

[Consortium of one]

How Smith keeps getting the call over Martins is baffling to say the least.

[KaKa]

Martins would be tons better in a decent team with some movement iyam. Not many of our players can I say that about.

 

In exactly the same way that Adebayor would look so much worse playing for us instead of Arsenal. He definitely wouldn't be the same player he is right now if he were in our team.

 

It troubles me that people can't see this. Instead they will tell you that Adebayor is a class player and has always been much better than Martins, when his early time at Arsenal proves otherwise.

[Guest alex]

Martins would be tons better in a decent team with some movement iyam. Not many of our players can I say that about.

 

In exactly the same way that Adebayor would look so much worse playing for us instead of Arsenal. He definitely wouldn't be the same player he is right now if he were in our team.

 

It troubles me that people can't see this. Instead they will tell you that Adebayor is a class player and has always been much better than Martins, when his early time at Arsenal proves otherwise.

I'll tell you Martins will never be as good as Adebayor. Feel free to bump this when he proves me wrong.

[Unbelievable]

Of course they`re not finished articles! These lads might be more or less the same ability wise, but they`re still miles better than 99% of other kids who try just as hard as them in the teams they play for on sunday mornings! Theyve all got something extra.

 

They do have something extra, their physical strengths more often than not. Trust me, what talent is in academies isn't that much different to what is out there in Sunday league kids' football. The gap isn't that big. I suggest you go and watch a few academy games and then a few normal Sunday league kids' football games to see for yourself. What you will notice is that a lot of academy kids are bigger, stronger and quicker but natural ability wise, there isn't much between them.

 

Your theory may apply to academies in the UK, but certainly doesn't apply to academies that are more successful at nurturing talent, such as in Holland, France and Brazil. Just look at Ajax for an example: most of their (former) players are midgets but they are technically very good and gifted. According to your theory the likes of Van der Vaart and Sneijder wouldn't have a chance to make it as a footballer. The facts are they are amongst the best in their profession because they showed early promise technically and joined an academy capable of developing that talent..

[Guest float one in]

Of course they`re not finished articles! These lads might be more or less the same ability wise, but they`re still miles better than 99% of other kids who try just as hard as them in the teams they play for on sunday mornings! Theyve all got something extra.

 

They do have something extra, their physical strengths more often than not. Trust me, what talent is in academies isn't that much different to what is out there in Sunday league kids' football. The gap isn't that big. I suggest you go and watch a few academy games and then a few normal Sunday league kids' football games to see for yourself. What you will notice is that a lot of academy kids are bigger, stronger and quicker but natural ability wise, there isn't much between them.

 

Your theory may apply to academies in the UK, but certainly doesn't apply to academies that are more successful at nurturing talent, such as in Holland, France and Brazil. Just look at Ajax for an example: most of their (former) players are midgets but they are technically very good and gifted. According to your theory the likes of Van der Vaart and Sneijder wouldn't have a chance to make it as a footballer. The facts are they are amongst the best in their profession because they showed early promise technically and joined an academy capable of developing that talent..

 

I would say you have just chosen the country and club which probably backs up Coach's argument better than any other. It is well known Dutch clubs, particularly Ajax, have been streets ahead of most other countries for their acadamies. At Ajax they were teaching kids how to dance and stuff to improve their balance years and years ago, as well as making them play with tenis balls in small spaces with small goals. It might not be a complete coincidence that they generally tend to have apparently gifted ball players.

However I do agree with your point - if it is all down to coaching, why aren't they all as good as Van der Vaart on the ball, since they've all had the same coaching?

[KaKa]

Martins would be tons better in a decent team with some movement iyam. Not many of our players can I say that about.

 

In exactly the same way that Adebayor would look so much worse playing for us instead of Arsenal. He definitely wouldn't be the same player he is right now if he were in our team.

 

It troubles me that people can't see this. Instead they will tell you that Adebayor is a class player and has always been much better than Martins, when his early time at Arsenal proves otherwise.

I'll tell you Martins will never be as good as Adebayor. Feel free to bump this when he proves me wrong.

 

Fair enough if that is your opinion, but you cannot really say this with any real certainty.

 

If Martins ends up leaving us I really would love to see him go to a decent premiership outfit, just to see what becomes of him in a better footballing environment than we have been able to provide for him since he has joined us.

[Theregulars]

We all know he's better than Smith. We all know he should start ahead of Smith. We all know he won't. End.

[Guest alex]

Martins would be tons better in a decent team with some movement iyam. Not many of our players can I say that about.

 

In exactly the same way that Adebayor would look so much worse playing for us instead of Arsenal. He definitely wouldn't be the same player he is right now if he were in our team.

 

It troubles me that people can't see this. Instead they will tell you that Adebayor is a class player and has always been much better than Martins, when his early time at Arsenal proves otherwise.

I'll tell you Martins will never be as good as Adebayor. Feel free to bump this when he proves me wrong.

 

Fair enough if that is your opinion, but you cannot really say this with any real certainty.

 

If Martins ends up leaving us I really would love to see him go to a decent premiership outfit, just to see what becomes of him in a better footballing environment than we have been able to provide for him since he has joined us.

Well I was obviously offering my opinion. I say it with a fair degree of certainty all the same. Why the fuck would you love to see him go to a rival if you rate him though? I think some people are more arsed about being right on here than they are about the good of the club.

[Baggio]

Martins would be tons better in a decent team with some movement iyam. Not many of our players can I say that about.

 

In exactly the same way that Adebayor would look so much worse playing for us instead of Arsenal. He definitely wouldn't be the same player he is right now if he were in our team.

 

It troubles me that people can't see this. Instead they will tell you that Adebayor is a class player and has always been much better than Martins, when his early time at Arsenal proves otherwise.

I'll tell you Martins will never be as good as Adebayor. Feel free to bump this when he proves me wrong.

 

That's not what he's getting at.

 

Both have good attributes but both are pretty shite at the basics, what Arsenal have done well is they've disguised Adebayor's shortcomings rather than trying to improve on them, his first touch is still awful and his decision making is still poor too but they've gone out of their way to play to his strengths, he's good in the air and strong on the ball so they play to those strengths, the biggest advantage he has is having a team full of technically gifted players that pass and move a ball well and create space for him, something we could only dream about but should aim for.

[Happy Face]

If Martins had a full season in the premierleague i'd put money on him getting 20 goals.

 

He only missed 6 games last year....and only managed 11 goals in the 32 he played.

 

In his first season in the premiership and without having a pre-season with us, after having joined us so late in the window.

 

Well he's only managed 6 this season too....and he was hardly a bench warmer in the 20 odd games before he went to the African Nations.

[Guest alex]

I know what he was getting at Baggio. He was suggesting stuff people hadn't even said, i.e. Adebayor has always been better than Martins and that people don't think Adebayor would look worse playing for us than he does at Arsenal.

[KaKa]

Martins would be tons better in a decent team with some movement iyam. Not many of our players can I say that about.

 

In exactly the same way that Adebayor would look so much worse playing for us instead of Arsenal. He definitely wouldn't be the same player he is right now if he were in our team.

 

It troubles me that people can't see this. Instead they will tell you that Adebayor is a class player and has always been much better than Martins, when his early time at Arsenal proves otherwise.

I'll tell you Martins will never be as good as Adebayor. Feel free to bump this when he proves me wrong.

 

That's not what he's getting at.

 

Both have good attributes but both are pretty s**** at the basics, what Arsenal have done well is they've disguised Adebayor's shortcomings rather than trying to improve on them, his first touch is still awful and his decision making is still poor too but they've gone out of their way to play to his strengths, he's good in the air and strong on the ball so they play to those strengths, the biggest advantage he has is having a team full of technically gifted players that pass and move a ball well and create space for him, something we could only dream about but should aim for.

 

Exactly. You did a much better job of explaining that than I have managed to so far.

 

What you have said is basically what I was getting at when I said that it annoys me that people admit that Owen is better with a strong target man type beside him, but won't acknowledge that Martins would also be better with a more technical creative type beside him, someone like Berbatov for example.

 

It's about recognising each individual's strengths and surrounding them with the players to get the most out of them.

[Guest alex]

Isn't Martins needing a player alongside him who is a target man 1) totally obvious and 2) what plenty people have been saying since he arrived?

[Gallowgate Toon]

Balls over the top are what we should be giving Martins, even if the defender looks like he is there first, Martins can still get past him and create a decent shot a la Riise and Liverpool yesterday.

is this a whoosh ?

No, as we aren't giving Martins any balls over the top to run onto just little dinks between defenders and he isn't clever enough to do read these. If he isn't going to make his own runs with his lack of brain make him run instead get it up there as quick as, he has enough pace.

[KaKa]

Martins would be tons better in a decent team with some movement iyam. Not many of our players can I say that about.

 

In exactly the same way that Adebayor would look so much worse playing for us instead of Arsenal. He definitely wouldn't be the same player he is right now if he were in our team.

 

It troubles me that people can't see this. Instead they will tell you that Adebayor is a class player and has always been much better than Martins, when his early time at Arsenal proves otherwise.

I'll tell you Martins will never be as good as Adebayor. Feel free to bump this when he proves me wrong.

 

Fair enough if that is your opinion, but you cannot really say this with any real certainty.

 

If Martins ends up leaving us I really would love to see him go to a decent premiership outfit, just to see what becomes of him in a better footballing environment than we have been able to provide for him since he has joined us.

Well I was obviously offering my opinion. I say it with a fair degree of certainty all the same. Why the f*** would you love to see him go to a rival if you rate him though? I think some people are more arsed about being right on here than they are about the good of the club.

 

Didn't mean it like that at all. I was just saying that it would be interesting to see how he might do in the premiership with better players around him, should we decide to move him on.

 

I would hope that we wouldn't move him on, and if we do so I would hope that we got players of a high calibre in anyway, so that we are a better team and we don't suffer for it.

 

I just would like to see him succeed in the premiership as I believe he can do it. If it is with us then all the better.

[Guest alex]

"If Martins ends up leaving us I really would love to see him go to a decent premiership outfit"

How else was I meant to interpret that? And I hope he goes abroad if we sell him.

[juniatmoko]

Martins would be tons better in a decent team with some movement iyam. Not many of our players can I say that about.

 

In exactly the same way that Adebayor would look so much worse playing for us instead of Arsenal. He definitely wouldn't be the same player he is right now if he were in our team.

 

It troubles me that people can't see this. Instead they will tell you that Adebayor is a class player and has always been much better than Martins, when his early time at Arsenal proves otherwise.

I'll tell you Martins will never be as good as Adebayor. Feel free to bump this when he proves me wrong.

 

of course he will not as be as good as adebayor... they are in different striker type.... martin is on poacher type = need to be feed with ball... but it aren't working with him right now because our poor playing on the pitch.... no intelligent pass for him... when we realize his ultimate attributes is pace and shooting...

 

all the fans must realize .... that you can't compared martin with another striker... he has he's own attributes.... it's up to the managerial to see that and maximize his best attributes... then after it i'll be damn sure every fans would singing his name... for scoring for fun.... and i am trust martin he could do that .... being top premiership striker!

 

and i don't believe also he is unintelligent footballer by some fans said.... because no big clubs will ever interest on him at first place

[Guest alex]

Martins would be tons better in a decent team with some movement iyam. Not many of our players can I say that about.

 

In exactly the same way that Adebayor would look so much worse playing for us instead of Arsenal. He definitely wouldn't be the same player he is right now if he were in our team.

 

It troubles me that people can't see this. Instead they will tell you that Adebayor is a class player and has always been much better than Martins, when his early time at Arsenal proves otherwise.

I'll tell you Martins will never be as good as Adebayor. Feel free to bump this when he proves me wrong.

 

of course he will not as be as good as adebayor... they are in different striker type.... martin is on poacher type = need to be feed with ball... but it aren't working with him right now because our poor playing on the pitch.... no intelligent pass for him... when we realize his ultimate attributes is pace and shooting...

 

all the fans must realize .... that you can't compared martin with another striker... he has he's own attributes.... it's up to the managerial to see that and maximize his best attributes... then after it i'll be damn sure every fans would singing his name... for scoring for fun.... and i am trust martin he could do that .... being top premiership striker!

 

and i don't believe also he is unintelligent footballer by some fans said.... because no big clubs will ever interest on him at first place

I didn't bring the subject of Adebayor up, did I?

[Guest float one in]

Martins would be tons better in a decent team with some movement iyam. Not many of our players can I say that about.

 

In exactly the same way that Adebayor would look so much worse playing for us instead of Arsenal. He definitely wouldn't be the same player he is right now if he were in our team.

 

It troubles me that people can't see this. Instead they will tell you that Adebayor is a class player and has always been much better than Martins, when his early time at Arsenal proves otherwise.

I'll tell you Martins will never be as good as Adebayor. Feel free to bump this when he proves me wrong.

 

Fair enough if that is your opinion, but you cannot really say this with any real certainty.

 

If Martins ends up leaving us I really would love to see him go to a decent premiership outfit, just to see what becomes of him in a better footballing environment than we have been able to provide for him since he has joined us.

Well I was obviously offering my opinion. I say it with a fair degree of certainty all the same. Why the f*** would you love to see him go to a rival if you rate him though? I think some people are more arsed about being right on here than they are about the good of the club.

 

Didn't mean it like that at all. I was just saying that it would be interesting to see how he might do in the premiership with better players around him, should we decide to move him on.

 

I would hope that we wouldn't move him on, and if we do so I would hope that we got players of a high calibre in anyway, so that we are a better team and we don't suffer for it.

 

I just would like to see him succeed in the premiership as I believe he can do it. If it is with us then all the better.

 

I remember intensely disliking Dyer for a long time before he left, but couldn't bear the thought of selling him to another English club cos it was plain to see he had the potential to come back and haunt us. Same applies to Martins, but that doesn't mean he should our main striker over the next few seasons.

I reckon most people, while rueing what mmight have been, were probably pleased enough to see John Dahl Tomasson making a success of himself at PSV then Milan - he seemed like a decent lad and it just didn't work for him here. If he had gone to Man U and had that success though....

[juniatmoko]

Martins would be tons better in a decent team with some movement iyam. Not many of our players can I say that about.

 

In exactly the same way that Adebayor would look so much worse playing for us instead of Arsenal. He definitely wouldn't be the same player he is right now if he were in our team.

 

It troubles me that people can't see this. Instead they will tell you that Adebayor is a class player and has always been much better than Martins, when his early time at Arsenal proves otherwise.

I'll tell you Martins will never be as good as Adebayor. Feel free to bump this when he proves me wrong.

 

of course he will not as be as good as adebayor... they are in different striker type.... martin is on poacher type = need to be feed with ball... but it aren't working with him right now because our poor playing on the pitch.... no intelligent pass for him... when we realize his ultimate attributes is pace and shooting...

 

all the fans must realize .... that you can't compared martin with another striker... he has he's own attributes.... it's up to the managerial to see that and maximize his best attributes... then after it i'll be damn sure every fans would singing his name... for scoring for fun.... and i am trust martin he could do that .... being top premiership striker!

 

and i don't believe also he is unintelligent footballer by some fans said.... because no big clubs will ever interest on him at first place

I didn't bring the subject of Adebayor up, did I?

 

everyone just said.... martin could be as class as adebayor.... i know they what they were mean... he could be as class as adebayor in term of getting how much goals... not the way they were playing... but i think what you mean with he as not as good as adebayor... is in terms how he playing... it just like comparing henry with inzaghi

[KaKa]

Martins would be tons better in a decent team with some movement iyam. Not many of our players can I say that about.

 

In exactly the same way that Adebayor would look so much worse playing for us instead of Arsenal. He definitely wouldn't be the same player he is right now if he were in our team.

 

It troubles me that people can't see this. Instead they will tell you that Adebayor is a class player and has always been much better than Martins, when his early time at Arsenal proves otherwise.

I'll tell you Martins will never be as good as Adebayor. Feel free to bump this when he proves me wrong.

 

Fair enough if that is your opinion, but you cannot really say this with any real certainty.

 

If Martins ends up leaving us I really would love to see him go to a decent premiership outfit, just to see what becomes of him in a better footballing environment than we have been able to provide for him since he has joined us.

Well I was obviously offering my opinion. I say it with a fair degree of certainty all the same. Why the f*** would you love to see him go to a rival if you rate him though? I think some people are more arsed about being right on here than they are about the good of the club.

 

Didn't mean it like that at all. I was just saying that it would be interesting to see how he might do in the premiership with better players around him, should we decide to move him on.

 

I would hope that we wouldn't move him on, and if we do so I would hope that we got players of a high calibre in anyway, so that we are a better team and we don't suffer for it.

 

I just would like to see him succeed in the premiership as I believe he can do it. If it is with us then all the better.

 

I remember intensely disliking Dyer for a long time before he left, but couldn't bear the thought of selling him to another English club cos it was plain to see he had the potential to come back and haunt us. Same applies to Martins, but that doesn't mean he should our main striker over the next few seasons.

I reckon most people, while rueing what mmight have been, were probably pleased enough to see John Dahl Tomasson making a success of himself at PSV then Milan - he seemed like a decent lad and it just didn't work for him here. If he had gone to Man U and had that success though....

 

"If Martins ends up leaving us I really would love to see him go to a decent premiership outfit"

How else was I meant to interpret that? And I hope he goes abroad if we sell him.

 

I don't know how you were meant to interpret it.

 

I like martins and want to be able to see him do well in the premiership and watch him every week.

 

This doesn't mean we as a team will be crap with no good players does it?! Couldn't we still have an excellent team better than the one Martins is in? Couldn't our players whoever we choose to bring in still be excellent players too?!

 

I would just hate to see Martins end up on a poor team similar to the one we currently have and hear people continue to claim he is rubbish.

 

If he went somewhere like Man City, Villa or Everton I have no doubt he would be a better player than he has had a chance to show so far. I would hope we would be able to build a better team so that we wouldn't miss him though, and we could still enjoy our club's success.

 

Hope that is a bit clearer.

[Guest alex]

Clearer but it doesn't really make any more sense to me. Purely from a selfish NUFC point of view. He's not exactly the sort of player I like watching as a neutral either from what I've seen of him so far.

[Unbelievable]

Of course they`re not finished articles! These lads might be more or less the same ability wise, but they`re still miles better than 99% of other kids who try just as hard as them in the teams they play for on sunday mornings! Theyve all got something extra.

 

They do have something extra, their physical strengths more often than not. Trust me, what talent is in academies isn't that much different to what is out there in Sunday league kids' football. The gap isn't that big. I suggest you go and watch a few academy games and then a few normal Sunday league kids' football games to see for yourself. What you will notice is that a lot of academy kids are bigger, stronger and quicker but natural ability wise, there isn't much between them.

 

Your theory may apply to academies in the UK, but certainly doesn't apply to academies that are more successful at nurturing talent, such as in Holland, France and Brazil. Just look at Ajax for an example: most of their (former) players are midgets but they are technically very good and gifted. According to your theory the likes of Van der Vaart and Sneijder wouldn't have a chance to make it as a footballer. The facts are they are amongst the best in their profession because they showed early promise technically and joined an academy capable of developing that talent..

 

I would say you have just chosen the country and club which probably backs up Coach's argument better than any other. It is well known Dutch clubs, particularly Ajax, have been streets ahead of most other countries for their acadamies. At Ajax they were teaching kids how to dance and stuff to improve their balance years and years ago, as well as making them play with tenis balls in small spaces with small goals. It might not be a complete coincidence that they generally tend to have apparently gifted ball players.

However I do agree with your point - if it is all down to coaching, why aren't they all as good as Van der Vaart on the ball, since they've all had the same coaching?

 

I think you misunderstood Coach's point tbh..

[Guest float one in]

Of course they`re not finished articles! These lads might be more or less the same ability wise, but they`re still miles better than 99% of other kids who try just as hard as them in the teams they play for on sunday mornings! Theyve all got something extra.

 

They do have something extra, their physical strengths more often than not. Trust me, what talent is in academies isn't that much different to what is out there in Sunday league kids' football. The gap isn't that big. I suggest you go and watch a few academy games and then a few normal Sunday league kids' football games to see for yourself. What you will notice is that a lot of academy kids are bigger, stronger and quicker but natural ability wise, there isn't much between them.

 

Your theory may apply to academies in the UK, but certainly doesn't apply to academies that are more successful at nurturing talent, such as in Holland, France and Brazil. Just look at Ajax for an example: most of their (former) players are midgets but they are technically very good and gifted. According to your theory the likes of Van der Vaart and Sneijder wouldn't have a chance to make it as a footballer. The facts are they are amongst the best in their profession because they showed early promise technically and joined an academy capable of developing that talent..

 

I would say you have just chosen the country and club which probably backs up Coach's argument better than any other. It is well known Dutch clubs, particularly Ajax, have been streets ahead of most other countries for their acadamies. At Ajax they were teaching kids how to dance and stuff to improve their balance years and years ago, as well as making them play with tenis balls in small spaces with small goals. It might not be a complete coincidence that they generally tend to have apparently gifted ball players.

However I do agree with your point - if it is all down to coaching, why aren't they all as good as Van der Vaart on the ball, since they've all had the same coaching?

 

I think you misunderstood Coach's point tbh..

 

I've read it again and can't see how I've misunderstood, but sorry if I have. I'm not the sharpest tool in the box at the best of times!