If Martins is again dropped for the next match...

[The College Dropout]

I think Oba is far better from long range than any of our other players, including Zog.

[Thespence]

Right. What is your point? Zog and Martins are confidence players who can offer us something that other players can't on their day. They are not as consistent as we would like, but realistically if they would be they wouldn't be here anymore would they? Fact remains they offer us a goal thread? Would you rather we played consistent s*** football, or took a chance on players who can provide moments of excitement and allow us to pick up the results that allow us to stay up?

 

Can I refresh your memory about your dismissive attitude towards FOOTBALL INTELLIGENCE & ask you similar questions about confidence, does a player need to be confident to run with a football a feet? To kick a ball towards goal?

 

I think if you go back to the very start of this thread you would of seen I said Oba should play.

 

I am really not fussed who plays as long as we win. Hope that clears it up for you.

[colinmk]

Our fans are too impatient with Obafemi.

 

This might sound hopeful but in his first season Oba was better than Drogba & Adebayour in their first seasons. But with a combination of hard-work, persistence, good coaching and confidence both players have become fine strikers.

 

I think so too. It's also worth saying that Martins has not had a settled side to play in since he joined, the closest thing was the Roeder team when he was playing well. I don't think Owen and Martins will work, maybe against some slow defences but not long term.

[Thespence]

You are not suggesting anything and I am the one assuming a lot..?! Let me remind you of what you said:

 

Two of the worst strikers of long range shot at the club tbf

 

Are you not suggesting (or stating as fact more like) that the majority of our players would be more effective from long range than Zog and Martins?! I ask you again: who are these players, because we'd better tell them to start shooting..?

 

Emre another player I dont particularly rate is better from distance. We dont have a majority of players shooting never mind digging from long range. Just because they shoot doesn't make them good at it.  Allardyce & Cameroon fans would say Geremi is good from distance as well.

[Guest alex]

I will maintain that an unintelligent player will not score the types of goals that Oba scores. The team is rubbish , the midfielders create very little and the team is not set up in a way to utilize Oba's strengths. Owen's successes at both Liverpool and England was essentially due to a team set up to make him score. Liverpool defended deep  and hit teams with the counter attack utilizing Heskey's strength and Owen's pace.

 

Are we even set up in such a way to utilize Martins' pace?

 

 

 

 

 

Could you explain what you mean by that?

[Unbelievable]

Right. What is your point? Zog and Martins are confidence players who can offer us something that other players can't on their day. They are not as consistent as we would like, but realistically if they would be they wouldn't be here anymore would they? Fact remains they offer us a goal thread? Would you rather we played consistent s*** football, or took a chance on players who can provide moments of excitement and allow us to pick up the results that allow us to stay up?

 

Can I refresh your memory about your dismissive attitude towards FOOTBALL INTELLIGENCE & ask you similar questions about confidence, does a player need to confident to run with a football a feet? To kick a ball towards goal?

 

I think if you go back to the very start of this thread you would of seen I said Oba should play.

 

I am really not fussed who plays as long as we win. Hope that clears it up for you.

 

So tell me, why is Owen not scoring like a madman at the moment? He's quality, supposedly, yet he somehow manages to mis sitters my sister would put away.. Might have something to do with confidence, no? Wait, don't take it from me, take it from the man himself:

 

“We needed a goal to ignite everyone but, unfortunately, we couldn’t hang on against Boro.

“This gives us something to work on. It would be a boost to get that win.

“There’s no doubt once everyone gets their confidence back we can go far.

[Guest alex]

I don't understand what points are being made here. Owen is an intelligent footballer, Martins isn't. That's not me saying Owen is a better player because I don't think he is anymore. Owen is low on confidence though. I'd also agree Martins is a confidence player. That doesn't mean he'll develop the ability to make clever runs etc. when his confidence is high.

[Unbelievable]

You are not suggesting anything and I am the one assuming a lot..?! Let me remind you of what you said:

 

Two of the worst strikers of long range shot at the club tbf

 

Are you not suggesting (or stating as fact more like) that the majority of our players would be more effective from long range than Zog and Martins?! I ask you again: who are these players, because we'd better tell them to start shooting..?

 

Emre another player I dont particularly rate is better from distance. We dont have a majority of players shooting never mind digging from long range. Just because they shoot doesn't make them good at it.  Allardyce & Cameroon fans would say Geremi is good from distance as well.

 

I'm not surprised you don't rate Emre, another flair player. Anyway, I mentioned him as one of two players other than Martins and Zog who I rate at the same or possibly a higher level when shooting from distance. Of course you are right that shooting from distance often does not make a player good at it, but I fail to see how you can claim that players who never shoot from distance are certainly better at it (that's what you said after all, these two were the worst in our squad)..

[Guest alex]

Emre's pretty ordinary fwiw. No way he's the answer either. And I don't dislike 'flair players' btw.

[Unbelievable]

I don't understand what points are being made here. Owen is an intelligent footballer, Martins isn't. That's not me saying Owen is a better player because I don't think he is anymore. Owen is low on confidence though. I'd also agree Martins is a confidence player. That doesn't mean he'll develop the ability to make clever runs etc. when his confidence is high.

 

You ask Goalfather to explain why he thinks Martin's goals are indicative of footballing intelligence. Would you return the favour and explain why you think they, or is general play, aren't? Again, I'm not suggesting he's on par with Rooney or Fabregas when it comes to vision etc, but to claim he has NO football brain is a bit of an overstatement if you ask me..

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

Emre's pretty ordinary fwiw. No way he's the answer either. And I don't dislike 'flair players' btw.

 

Agreed, once every ten games kinda player.

[Unbelievable]

Emre's pretty ordinary fwiw. No way he's the answer either. And I don't dislike 'flair players' btw.

 

I like Emre in the same way that I like Owen, they're both very good players. My gripe with them is the same also, their fitness doesn't allow us to build a team around them, and in Owen's case it seems the injuries have taken their toll. The same may well be true for Emre btw, and for that reason I would peddle them both come the summer and replace them with younger, fitter specimen..

[Rich]

Emre's pretty ordinary fwiw. No way he's the answer either. And I don't dislike 'flair players' btw.

 

Agreed, once every ten games kinda player.

 

Better than never in ten games, surely? Like some.

[Guest alex]

I don't understand what points are being made here. Owen is an intelligent footballer, Martins isn't. That's not me saying Owen is a better player because I don't think he is anymore. Owen is low on confidence though. I'd also agree Martins is a confidence player. That doesn't mean he'll develop the ability to make clever runs etc. when his confidence is high.

 

You ask Goalfather to explain why he thinks Martin's goals are indicative of footballing intelligence. Would you return the favour and explain why you think they, or is general play, aren't? Again, I'm not suggesting he's on par with Rooney or Fabregas when it comes to vision etc, but to claim he has NO football brain is a bit of an overstatement if you ask me..

His allround play isn't what I would define as 'intelligent'. His runs, movement, etc. And a lot of his goals seem to be instinctive ones. It isn't a criticism of him as a player as such. It's me attempting to debunk the notion he is an intelligent player.

[mrmojorisin75]

"football intelligence", another term bandied about at will by all and sundry like it means something and can be applied to footballers across the board

 

hilarious

[Guest alex]

Emre's pretty ordinary fwiw. No way he's the answer either. And I don't dislike 'flair players' btw.

 

I like Emre in the same way that I like Owen, they're both very good players. My gripe with them is the same also, their fitness doesn't allow us to build a team around them, and in Owen's case it seems the injuries have taken their toll. The same may well be true for Emre btw, and for that reason I would peddle them both come the summer and replace them with younger, fitter specimen..

Not sure Owen is anymore but Emre definitely isn't a 'very good player' imo. He's had about 5 good games (if that) since he arrived. Fwiw I'd play him at present (when fit - another big problem with him). This isn't me bigging-up the likes of Smith, Geremi et al either before I'm accused of that.

[Guest alex]

"football intelligence", another term bandied about at will by all and sundry like it means something and can be applied to footballers across the board

 

hilarious

Of course it means something.

[Rich]

I don't understand what points are being made here. Owen is an intelligent footballer, Martins isn't. That's not me saying Owen is a better player because I don't think he is anymore. Owen is low on confidence though. I'd also agree Martins is a confidence player. That doesn't mean he'll develop the ability to make clever runs etc. when his confidence is high.

 

You ask Goalfather to explain why he thinks Martin's goals are indicative of footballing intelligence. Would you return the favour and explain why you think they, or is general play, aren't? Again, I'm not suggesting he's on par with Rooney or Fabregas when it comes to vision etc, but to claim he has NO football brain is a bit of an overstatement if you ask me..

His allround play isn't what I would define as 'intelligent'. His runs, movement, etc. And a lot of his goals seem to be instinctive ones. It isn't a criticism of him as a player as such. It's me attempting to debunk the notion he is an intelligent player.

 

For what it's worth, I tend to agree.

 

I'd still have him as our first choice striker though, right now, as I believe you've already said you would do as well.

 

The lad has never hidden in his time here, he's been fit and available for selection as much as anyone else has and he's shown himself capable of doing something really special to get us out of a few sticky situations. He's exactly the sort of player we need in the team and making things happen for us.

 

He cannot be any worse than what we have in there, he has the fans on his side, and he's proven himself capable of handling big pressure as well.

 

He is our best bet currently, but that doesn't make him this brilliant football player that he seems to have become since going away to Ghana.

[Thespence]

Right. What is your point? Zog and Martins are confidence players who can offer us something that other players can't on their day. They are not as consistent as we would like, but realistically if they would be they wouldn't be here anymore would they? Fact remains they offer us a goal thread? Would you rather we played consistent s*** football, or took a chance on players who can provide moments of excitement and allow us to pick up the results that allow us to stay up?

 

Can I refresh your memory about your dismissive attitude towards FOOTBALL INTELLIGENCE & ask you similar questions about confidence, does a player need to confident to run with a football a feet? To kick a ball towards goal?

 

I think if you go back to the very start of this thread you would of seen I said Oba should play.

 

I am really not fussed who plays as long as we win. Hope that clears it up for you.

 

So tell me, why is Owen not scoring like a madman at the moment? He's quality, supposedly, yet he somehow manages to mis sitters my sister would put away.. Might have something to do with confidence, no? Wait, don't take it from me, take it from the man himself:

 

“We needed a goal to ignite everyone but, unfortunately, we couldn’t hang on against Boro.

“This gives us something to work on. It would be a boost to get that win.

“There’s no doubt once everyone gets their confidence back we can go far.

 

Owen isn't scoring because goalkeepers are saving shots, defenders are blocking them or he is shooting wide.

 

[Keefaz]

"football intelligence", another term bandied about at will by all and sundry like it means something and can be applied to footballers across the board

 

hilarious

 

You don't think it means anything?

[Guest alex]

I don't understand what points are being made here. Owen is an intelligent footballer, Martins isn't. That's not me saying Owen is a better player because I don't think he is anymore. Owen is low on confidence though. I'd also agree Martins is a confidence player. That doesn't mean he'll develop the ability to make clever runs etc. when his confidence is high.

 

You ask Goalfather to explain why he thinks Martin's goals are indicative of footballing intelligence. Would you return the favour and explain why you think they, or is general play, aren't? Again, I'm not suggesting he's on par with Rooney or Fabregas when it comes to vision etc, but to claim he has NO football brain is a bit of an overstatement if you ask me..

His allround play isn't what I would define as 'intelligent'. His runs, movement, etc. And a lot of his goals seem to be instinctive ones. It isn't a criticism of him as a player as such. It's me attempting to debunk the notion he is an intelligent player.

 

For what it's worth, I tend to agree.

 

I'd still have him as our first choice striker though, right now, as I believe you've already said you would do as well.

 

The lad has never hidden in his time here, he's been fit and available for selection as much as anyone else has and he's shown himself capable of doing something really special to get us out of a few sticky situations. He's exactly the sort of player we need in the team and making things happen for us.

 

He cannot be any worse than what we have in there, he has the fans on his side, and he's proven himself capable of handling big pressure as well.

 

He is our best bet currently, but that doesn't make him this brilliant football player that he seems to have become since going away to Ghana.

I agree.

[Thespence]

I'm not surprised you don't rate Emre, another flair player. Anyway, I mentioned him as one of two players other than Martins and Zog who I rate at the same or possibly a higher level when shooting from distance. Of course you are right that shooting from distance often does not make a player good at it, but I fail to see how you can claim that players who never shoot from distance are certainly better at it (that's what you said after all, these two were the worst in our squad)..

 

I like proper flair players the ones who operate deep in the oppostion half. rather than in our half or in & around the half way line.

 

I dont claim they are better, we dont have many players scoring at all so it is hard to say they are good at long range shooting as we are not scoring many goals atm.  I hope next game Oba score 3 or more 25 yarders & Charlie scores off every freekick he takes because they are the only people who can change what I think/know & I hope they do.

[Thespence]

Our fans are too impatient with Obafemi.

 

There was about three quarters of the ground singing his name when he was on the bench against Blackburn. That has to be a confidence booster.

[mrmojorisin75]

"football intelligence", another term bandiend about at will by all and sundry like it means something and can be applied to footballers across the board

 

hilarious

 

 

 

You don't think it means anything?

 

fundamentally yeah, football moves too fast for intelligence to be a factor if you ask me - there's simply a level of natural reaction to a situation, an ability to see what's around you faster than the opposition or your peers

 

that is not intelligence, it's instinct

[Unbelievable]

I don't understand what points are being made here. Owen is an intelligent footballer, Martins isn't. That's not me saying Owen is a better player because I don't think he is anymore. Owen is low on confidence though. I'd also agree Martins is a confidence player. That doesn't mean he'll develop the ability to make clever runs etc. when his confidence is high.

 

You ask Goalfather to explain why he thinks Martin's goals are indicative of footballing intelligence. Would you return the favour and explain why you think they, or is general play, aren't? Again, I'm not suggesting he's on par with Rooney or Fabregas when it comes to vision etc, but to claim he has NO football brain is a bit of an overstatement if you ask me..

His allround play isn't what I would define as 'intelligent'. His runs, movement, etc. And a lot of his goals seem to be instinctive ones. It isn't a criticism of him as a player as such. It's me attempting to debunk the notion he is an intelligent player.

 

Which is fair enough, everybody is entitled to their opinion. You have also said however he is not the answer for us in the long term, suggesting he is not good enough (and doesn't have the potential to become good enough) for a top Premiership side. Is there a causal effect between the two, i.e. will it be his lack of football intelligence you claim he has that will prevent him from making the step up? Because if so, I can think of a couple of top class strikers who are more instincive than thinkers of the game or players with great vision and awareness. At the end of the day, a striker needs to put the ball away, and I have no doubt in my mind he has the ability and potential to be a 20 goal a season striker in time. Not saying it's a certainty he will be, but you are claiming it's a certainty he won't. Would be interested in knowing why..