Keegan, sentiment, reality.

[Guest BooBoo]

I was gobsmacked when the news broke that KK had returned, then a little excited. However the dreadful run of games and baffling failure to bring new signings in, dampened that quickly.

 

Now, i'm a bit disaapointed that we've been so naive to think we could recreate a long gone era. Thats compounded by the managers you see appointed by teams like Man City and Spurs and the rewards reaped by the likes of Everton who gave an initially struggling manager a chance. These are all sides who i think will continue to progress at a faster rate to ourselves.

[Mick]

I was gobsmacked when the news broke that KK had returned, then a little excited. However the dreadful run of games and baffling failure to bring new signings in, dampened that quickly.

 

Now, i'm a bit disaapointed that we've been so naive to think we could recreate a long gone era. Thats compounded by the managers you see appointed by teams like Man City and Spurs and the rewards reaped by the likes of Everton who gave an initially struggling manager a chance. These are all sides who i think will continue to progress at a faster rate to ourselves.

 

The dreadful run of games was on the cards before Keegan arrived and he's tried to bring players in so to mark him down for failing to bring somebody in considering the time he had is a little hard on Keegan.  Why not wait until he's had the summer to bring in players then judge him.

 

He's only been here a couple of months; nobody would have changed things drastically in that time.  Keegan has a track-record here which is second to none, he deserves the time you think was rightly given to David Moyes at Everton, at least.

 

[Guest MarkMag]

I was gobsmacked when the news broke that KK had returned, then a little excited. However the dreadful run of games and baffling failure to bring new signings in, dampened that quickly.

 

Now, i'm a bit disaapointed that we've been so naive to think we could recreate a long gone era. Thats compounded by the managers you see appointed by teams like Man City and Spurs and the rewards reaped by the likes of Everton who gave an initially struggling manager a chance. These are all sides who i think will continue to progress at a faster rate to ourselves.

 

The dreadful run of games was on the cards before Keegan arrived and he's tried to bring players in so to mark him down for failing to bring somebody in considering the time he had is a little hard on Keegan.  Why not wait until he's had the summer to bring in players then judge him.

 

He's only been here a couple of months; nobody would have changed things drastically in that time.  Keegan has a track-record here which is second to none, he deserves the time you think was rightly given to David Moyes at Everton, at least.

 

 

Absolutely agree, Keegan has earned the right to be given more time (than previous managers) to try and turn the team around. No matter what people say about him you can be sure he gives a sh*t about he club and I'm optimistic about what he can achieve. He may not get us to the heights that we as fans probably expect and deserve but he will definetly get us back on track (providing we stay up).

[Guest JamesD]

I don't necessarily see the need to have a disconnect between sentiment and what in reality was needed.  If there's one thing Keegan can do, he gets everyone excited, whether that be the players or the supporters, and after Souness and Roeder, and Allardyce, Keegan's pick-me-up is just what this club needed.  Despite the results, I don't think anyone can deny that we've shown signs of better than we have over the last several years. Once Keegan is able to build this team in his image, I think we'll all be in for a treat. 

And also, the way people talk about football tactics and "world class managers" makes you think that its close to rocket science in terms of difficulty.  It doesn't take a genius to devise tactics, or the best way to play against a certain team.  The hardest part is getting the players to preform, which is seemingly Keegan's best asset, espescially when compared to our last 3 managers.  I must say, having missed out on the first Keegan era and all but the very end of SBR's time here, I'm really looking forward to the coming years.

[Parky]

I don't necessarily see the need to have a disconnect between sentiment and what in reality was needed.  If there's one thing Keegan can do, he gets everyone excited, whether that be the players or the supporters, and after Souness and Roeder, and Allardyce, Keegan's pick-me-up is just what this club needed.  Despite the results, I don't think anyone can deny that we've shown signs of better than we have over the last several years. Once Keegan is able to build this team in his image, I think we'll all be in for a treat. 

And also, the way people talk about football tactics and "world class managers" makes you think that its close to rocket science in terms of difficulty.  It doesn't take a genius to devise tactics, or the best way to play against a certain team.  The hardest part is getting the players to preform, which is seemingly Keegan's best asset, espescially when compared to our last 3 managers.  I must say, having missed out on the first Keegan era and all but the very end of SBR's time here, I'm really looking forward to the coming years.

 

 

I'm absolutely certain that KK has it in him. He is the lone marshall walking down the dusty town center with a wet cigar. His big strength is that he is very creative in his thinking.

[TRon]

The thing that worries me about Keegan is he seems to be a trial and error man. He's not very good at working out problems and solutions in his head beforehand, but tends to take plunges and then react to what's happened. That's why he couldn't hack it as an international manager, where there's only a very limited scope to learn from your mistakes. You only have to get it wrong in one game to be out of a tournament.

 

There's that famous story from Scott Sellars, about when Keegan announced to the team that they were going to play 3-5-2, an hour before the kick-off, having never practiced the formation in training beforehand. The formation on Monday felt a bit like that - a bit desperate and impulsive. The players looked completely lost in the first half, but finally managed to get it together, to some extent, in the second. It would be nice to think that it was some words of wisdom from KK at half time that made the difference, but it really looked to me like the players were having to work it out for themselves.

 

Keegan only has a limited amount of time to get things right, and so far there's no progress. Neither the results nor the performances have improved. No amount of philosophising about how much better or worse some other manager would have been is going to change that.

 

Keegan had been hinting at including Viduka for a week before the game which sort of blows that theory out of the water. The fact he included Martins as well probably took a few people by surprise, but it was a resounding success in the end. Keegan dropped two players with no end product and replaced them with goal-scorers. Butt, Barton and Geremi were used as a fairly defensive midfield to allow us to do this. If Keegan was as impulsive and careless as some would think, he would probably have included N'Zogbia in that line up.

 

 

 

[Wullie]

Interesting how Harry Redknapp is being hailed for his work with Portsmouth given that he was managing West Ham when Keegan was here first time and finished 14th, 10th and 13th.

 

He must have learned a hell of a lot about tactics in those three years Keegan was out of the game.

[Robster]

I was gobsmacked when the news broke that KK had returned, then a little excited. However the dreadful run of games and baffling failure to bring new signings in, dampened that quickly.

 

Now, i'm a bit disaapointed that we've been so naive to think we could recreate a long gone era. Thats compounded by the managers you see appointed by teams like Man City and Spurs and the rewards reaped by the likes of Everton who gave an initially struggling manager a chance. These are all sides who i think will continue to progress at a faster rate to ourselves.

 

What the fu.....

He was only here for a fornight before the window closed man.

[Guest BooBoo]

I was gobsmacked when the news broke that KK had returned, then a little excited. However the dreadful run of games and baffling failure to bring new signings in, dampened that quickly.

 

Now, i'm a bit disaapointed that we've been so naive to think we could recreate a long gone era. Thats compounded by the managers you see appointed by teams like Man City and Spurs and the rewards reaped by the likes of Everton who gave an initially struggling manager a chance. These are all sides who i think will continue to progress at a faster rate to ourselves.

 

What the fu.....

He was only here for a fornight before the window closed man.

 

Long enough.

[NE5]

The thing that worries me about Keegan is he seems to be a trial and error man. He's not very good at working out problems and solutions in his head beforehand, but tends to take plunges and then react to what's happened. That's why he couldn't hack it as an international manager, where there's only a very limited scope to learn from your mistakes. You only have to get it wrong in one game to be out of a tournament.

 

There's that famous story from Scott Sellars, about when Keegan announced to the team that they were going to play 3-5-2, an hour before the kick-off, having never practiced the formation in training beforehand. The formation on Monday felt a bit like that - a bit desperate and impulsive. The players looked completely lost in the first half, but finally managed to get it together, to some extent, in the second. It would be nice to think that it was some words of wisdom from KK at half time that made the difference, but it really looked to me like the players were having to work it out for themselves.

 

Keegan only has a limited amount of time to get things right, and so far there's no progress. Neither the results nor the performances have improved. No amount of philosophising about how much better or worse some other manager would have been is going to change that.

 

Keegan had been hinting at including Viduka for a week before the game which sort of blows that theory out of the water. The fact he included Martins as well probably took a few people by surprise, but it was a resounding success in the end. Keegan dropped two players with no end product and replaced them with goal-scorers. Butt, Barton and Geremi were used as a fairly defensive midfield to allow us to do this. If Keegan was as impulsive and careless as some would think, he would probably have included N'Zogbia in that line up.

 

 

aye. Depends on your point of view.

 

Experienced and successful ex players such as Barry Venison have said that Keegan was brilliant at man management for instance.

 

He should know, and he was one of the most influential and committed players I have ever seen play for Newcastle.

 

I don't take any notice of these tossers who say Keegan isn't up to it.

 

Look at his record, and accept you are talking shite is how I see it.

 

 

[merlin]

 

Keegan is the man for the moment, whether we go down or not.

 

This is his last job in football. He'll either succeed, or walk away if the club don't back him or somebody sticks their nose into his job.

 

 

In other words, whatever happens, appointing him was the right thing to do. If he succeeds, he's a genius,  if he fails, it's someone else's fault.

 

Well, it was certainly Shepherd, Hall Jnr and Fletcher who were responsible for appointing him the first time round. Shame that the majority shareholder Sir John decided to float the club on the Stock exchange which resulted in losing him.

 

 

 

Being a PLC hasn't resulted in Man U losing Ferguson - also, I personally believe that it can be unhealthy for one family to own a club ; you yourself have rightly blamed Westwood, Seymour et al for the club's mediocrity before, and even though NUFC WAS a Plc, it didn't stop Shepherd and Hall Jnr from running it like a personal fiefdom when SJH retired, did it ? They were major shareholders, so if KK had had any faith in their ability, surely he would have stayed after Sir John left...

[Martin Lol]

Interesting how Harry Redknapp is being hailed for his work with Portsmouth given that he was managing West Ham when Keegan was here first time and finished 14th, 10th and 13th.

 

He must have learned a hell of a lot about tactics in those three years Keegan was out of the game.

 

'Arry has always been a pretty good manager but now is the first time he's really had any money to spend.  His days at WHU were successful as those league finishes were in spite of Terry Brown (the then chairman), not because of him.  Little doubt that without Redknapp West Ham would have been contenders for relegation.  The spanners fans were celebrating when Brown sold up, he was more detested by the fans than Fat Fred was by the Newcastle fans.  At least Fat Fred spent money on good players, even if they couldn't be gelled into making a good team.

[Guest Ebolarama]

I thought it was a mistake to bring him back.

 

I still do.

[Robster]

I was gobsmacked when the news broke that KK had returned, then a little excited. However the dreadful run of games and baffling failure to bring new signings in, dampened that quickly.

 

Now, i'm a bit disaapointed that we've been so naive to think we could recreate a long gone era. Thats compounded by the managers you see appointed by teams like Man City and Spurs and the rewards reaped by the likes of Everton who gave an initially struggling manager a chance. These are all sides who i think will continue to progress at a faster rate to ourselves.

 

What the fu.....

He was only here for a fornight before the window closed man.

 

Long enough.

 

To get shite mercenary players who know we are so desperate they will demand unrealistic money and then not justify it

no where near long enough to get the type of quality he would have wanted.

 

[Cronky]

 

Look at his record, and accept you are talking shite is how I see it.

 

 

Well his current record is P9 W0 D3 L6, and that's the one that counts right now.

 

As for his past record, a lot of cherrypicking seems to be going on. His trophy count is zero, and while he was here first time he did have the advantage of being able to outspend all but one of the opposition.

 

[Mick]

 

Well his current record is P9 W0 D3 L6, and that's the one that counts right now.

 

As for his past record, a lot of cherrypicking seems to be going on. His trophy count is zero, and while he was here first time he did have the advantage of being able to outspend all but one of the opposition.

 

 

I don't see why anybody needs to cherry pick, the last time he was here as manager he saved us from relegation in his first season, got promoted, finished 3rd, finished 6th and finished 2nd.  Yes he spent money, Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal weren't starting off from such a poor position, they would have had to spend as much to do what he did, most would have had to spend more due to his record in the transfer market.

[NE5]

 

Well his current record is P9 W0 D3 L6, and that's the one that counts right now.

 

As for his past record, a lot of cherrypicking seems to be going on. His trophy count is zero, and while he was here first time he did have the advantage of being able to outspend all but one of the opposition.

 

 

I don't see why anybody needs to cherry pick, the last time he was here as manager he saved us from relegation in his first season, got promoted, finished 3rd, finished 6th and finished 2nd.  Yes he spent money, Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal weren't starting off from such a poor position, they would have had to spend as much to do what he did, most would have had to spend more due to his record in the transfer market.

 

true, and the simple fact is that Newcastle United SHOULD be outspending the vast majority of our opposition. To not do it is basically selling the club short.

 

 

[NE5]

 

Keegan is the man for the moment, whether we go down or not.

 

This is his last job in football. He'll either succeed, or walk away if the club don't back him or somebody sticks their nose into his job.

 

 

In other words, whatever happens, appointing him was the right thing to do. If he succeeds, he's a genius,  if he fails, it's someone else's fault.

 

Well, it was certainly Shepherd, Hall Jnr and Fletcher who were responsible for appointing him the first time round. Shame that the majority shareholder Sir John decided to float the club on the Stock exchange which resulted in losing him.

 

 

 

Being a PLC hasn't resulted in Man U losing Ferguson - also, I personally believe that it can be unhealthy for one family to own a club ; you yourself have rightly blamed Westwood, Seymour et al for the club's mediocrity before, and even though NUFC WAS a Plc, it didn't stop Shepherd and Hall Jnr from running it like a personal fiefdom when SJH retired, did it ? They were major shareholders, so if KK had had any faith in their ability, surely he would have stayed after Sir John left...

 

he obviously had reservations about the effect of going PLC, compounded by Mark Corbridge who was brought in from outside to oversee it and he was told to sell a player for 6m quid [Les Ferdinand]. These reservations turned out to be minimal as all the managers continued to be backed with big funds, but you weren't to know this at the time. As it happens, I had the same reservations myself but equally those fears disappeared when I saw that Dalglish and Gullit were still allowed to buy the players they wanted.

 

 

[Mick]

 

true, and the simple fact is that Newcastle United SHOULD be outspending the vast majority of our opposition. To not do it is basically selling the club short.

 

 

 

It's just as important that we get value for money, outspending others is no good if you've got somebody like Souness doing the spending, I trust Keegan to get it right more than I would trust most others, it's not just spending, it's getting value for money and his track-record here is second to none.

[nufc4eva]

Im still happy he is here simple as. It has been hard but the 6 goals smashed past us before keegan took over set the tone and I don't think playing arsenal twice, liverpool, villa away and man u again have helped at all. Yes we have been dreadful but he is having to mold this shower into a team that can get results. To write him off now when the damage had already been done is a joke.

 

Also im not to sure how much tactics come into it for Alex Ferguson. I think he just picks the players in there best positions and tells them to pass them off the park. He tried to tinker with 4-5-1 etc and never got it quite right. Then switched back to 4-4-2 and hey presto they are playing well again

[NE5]

 

true, and the simple fact is that Newcastle United SHOULD be outspending the vast majority of our opposition. To not do it is basically selling the club short.

 

 

 

It's just as important that we get value for money, outspending others is no good if you've got somebody like Souness doing the spending, I trust Keegan to get it right more than I would trust most others, it's not just spending, it's getting value for money and his track-record here is second to none.

 

goes without saying, everybody makes mistakes with signings but at the end of the day if you don't buy a ticket you won't win the raffle

 

 

[Parky]

 

true, and the simple fact is that Newcastle United SHOULD be outspending the vast majority of our opposition. To not do it is basically selling the club short.

 

 

 

It's just as important that we get value for money, outspending others is no good if you've got somebody like Souness doing the spending, I trust Keegan to get it right more than I would trust most others, it's not just spending, it's getting value for money and his track-record here is second to none.

 

goes without saying, everybody makes mistakes with signings but at the end of the day if you don't buy a ticket you won't win the raffle

 

 

 

There isn't a manager out there who hasn't bought duff players. One in three is a reasonable ratio.

[NE5]

 

true, and the simple fact is that Newcastle United SHOULD be outspending the vast majority of our opposition. To not do it is basically selling the club short.

 

 

 

It's just as important that we get value for money, outspending others is no good if you've got somebody like Souness doing the spending, I trust Keegan to get it right more than I would trust most others, it's not just spending, it's getting value for money and his track-record here is second to none.

 

goes without saying, everybody makes mistakes with signings but at the end of the day if you don't buy a ticket you won't win the raffle

 

 

 

There isn't a manager out there who hasn't bought duff players. One in three is a reasonable ratio.

 

[Baggio]

The club wanted to sell Ferdinand after Keegan had told the board he was leaving at the end of the season tbh, the £6 million that the club had to raise was to pay back the bank for what they borrowed to sign Shearer as they were told they couldn't borrow anymore until they got that back. I'll copy the part of his book out when I've got the time.

[Baggio]

And Bob is right, Keegan should be judged on what he does now and not on what happened in the 90's.