The NUFC section "own up" thread...........

[thomas]

Less back-patting over being right and more owning up to being wrong here lads.

 

#2 - I thought Kluivert would be a sensation.

[NE5]

I liked Stephen Glass.

 

yes, I was surprised when Bobby Robson got rid of him too

 

 

 

Completely off topic, but since you are here NE5, what do you remember of the Imre Varadi situation? I saw KK's debut goal against QPR the other day and the first player to mob him was Varadi and it jogged my memory a little.

 

He used to bang in the goals regularily and I thought he was great at the time. Why did we get shot ? Was it because of the rumour that was going around at the time about him being a bit of a ladies man and his alleged going ons with certain players wives. Or was it simply just the fact that we had the local lad with a huge amount of potential coming in from Vancouver Whitecaps to replace him ?

 

I always thought that Varadi was limited. He had pace and that caused problems, plus he was the only player with pace which highlighted it more, pretty much like Martins at the moment.

 

He also - like Martins again - lacked composure in his finishing. He scored some spectacular goals but missed more easier ones. He missed them when he maybe had time to think about it. Sometimes he scored some goals from "under his feet", by that I mean he didn't appear to know what he was doing, he had no control over his intentions.

 

We were always going to want a better footballer, and Peter Beardsley came along, who Arthur Cox had wanted earlier and he finally got him from Vancouver.

 

He was OK, Varadi, decent attitude and everything, but the 2nd division was just his level probably.

 

I think of players with his pace, and players like Mick Quinn who was a great finisher but lacked pace in footballing situations, and if you could combine the 2 you would have a good striker and footballer.

 

I have heard about the ladies man rumours, but don't really know for sure.

 

 

I guess I look back at him from a rose tainted specs point of view. I was still very young then but he and Peter Withe were the first players I had personally been sorry to see leave. I was too young to remember when players like SuperMac, Alan Kennedy, Irving Natress and Terry Mc. Actually if you look back at that mid 70's team it could have gone places, with those above and the likes of Terry Hibbitt and Pop Robson. Was it Gordon Lee's fault, the board's, player power, or all of the above,  that we drifted into wilderness ?

 

aye, I understand that. I used to like a player called Tommy Knox, and my first ever favourite player was Trevor Hockey. Both players who if I saw them now would probably realise they weren't the bees knees.

 

I think that Irving Nattrass is one of the best defenders I've ever seen play for Newcastle. He played right back, but played some games as a centre back and when he played there he was awesome, people say Woodgate was great but Nattrass was just like that in fact I don't really think we saw the best of Woodgate at Newcastle anyway.

 

I think Gordon Lee was the right man at the wrong time for Newcastle to be honest, I know most people attach the stigma of selling MacDonald to him but we did better without MacDonald, he was right to sell him, we got a good price for a player that we knew wouldn't play till he was 30, and if we had had a board that backed Gordon Lee he would have brought more success to Newcastle like all of his successors did, we were on the right road when he left. He had the right idea but was totally misrepresented and has been since too.

 

Peter Withe was a top player by the way.

 

 

 

I don't think the fans ever forgave him for selling Supermac, it's difficult for people not around at the time to understand MM's stature at the club at the time. I was still too young to understand everythingt but even at my young age I was able to appreciate how much of a star Supermac was. His goals per game record is phenominal, selling him was akin to if Guillet had sold Shearer. The difference between Guillet and Gordon Lee though was that at least Lee had a clue and was right to want rid of his star player. I think we finished in our highest league postion, in a a very long time under Lee. He aquired the 'anti star' label, rightly or wrongly people thought he preferred a team of workers as oppossed to one brimming with talent.

 

I can't agree that the squad of players was so talented. They finished 15th for 2 consecutive seasons. They finished 15th again under Lee in the first season before he made the changes that shot us up to 5th.

 

There were some good players but essentially there were too many individuals and too many homers. Too many inconsistent players. The whole mood of the club was that they were happy with seeing individual players, on the basis that if 2 or 3 of them had a good game then it was OK. it kept the club up and that was about it.

 

Lee brought an altogether a different more professional attitude and more professional approach. He influenced me a lot to be honest. He quite simply said that Newcastle's whole approach to the game was wrong, he made a comment saying they played "back to front" football. He meant that the club relied too much on individuality and the team ethic was poor, and if you wanted to have consistent results then you needed consistently performing players, and this stemmed from attitude, approach, respect for your fellow team mates etc etc. Pretty basic stuff you may think but think about it, it epitomised some of the things that were wrong with the team and the club that he took over.

 

He got off on the wrong foot completely, when he said that he didn't like MacDonald advertising Tartan bitter on placards in the city, because he thought it was wrong for a professional athlete to present such an image and he should be seen to concentrate on his health, fitness and behave as such.  Of course he was quite right, but it was new thing, a new idea, and people didn't like it because MacDonald was the great untouchable. This brought on his comments about wanting a team and not one player held up as being bigger and better than all the others.

 

All bollocks. He had a problem winning over fans from that point, and became misrepresented. He was winning the fans over in the end, when we were 2nd in the table in the November and looking like genuine contenders for the highest league position for many many years. But it came too late, he buggered off to Everton quite simply because Newcastle were a shitty club with a board that wouldn't back him even with the money he got for offloading MacDonald, and Everton were and acted like the big club they were at the time.

 

I've posted on this before, I'll look for it if its on this server.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks NE5, I feel educated, as I said I was a little too young for it all, but I do recall the contempt Lee was held in despite the results on the field, which obviously now makes no sense.

 

I agree at the time we were definately a Mickey Mouse club compared to Everton. Talking of Everton was he much of a success there ? I seem to recall he wasn't but may be wrong.

 

When he left, Newcastle were bound for a european qualification spot, and Everton were in the bottom 4 or 5 teams and looking like they were in a relegation fight.

 

That in itself tells you a lot.

 

Anyway, he reached the League Cup Final ie within the first few weeks they won away to someone in the semi final, but they lost the Final to Villa. Next 3 seasons they finished 3rd, 4th and 4th [maybe 3rd, 3rd and 4th] reached another League Cup Final [losing to Liverpool] and beat Liverpool in a league game for the first time in about 7 years. Remember Liverpool were European Cup winners twice during this time and were the top team in the country as well as being local rivals.

 

They had one average season after that and they sacked him. The thing is though, about 7 or 8 of the Everton team who won the League, FA Cup and European Cup Winners Cup under Howard Kendall were signed by Everton's youth system during Lee's time as  manager.

 

He had a few jobs over the next few years, Preston and Leicester I think, where he did OK but just seemed to disappear. A bit like someone like Brian Little has done, who won a trophy at Villa and did a great job at Darlington.

 

Also at Everton, Lee brought 3 England players (Dave Thomas who chose Everton instead of Newcastle, Mike Pejic and Colin Todd) and Asa Hartford. You have to remember that unlike now, England players were the best players in the top league at that time. So much for him not liking "stars".

 

I think that Joe Harvey would have done better with a good board, Gordon Lee would have done well with a good board, and Arthur Cox would have done quite well with a good board. The rest of the managers they appointed were all shite.

 

 

 

 

[fredbob]

Back to the thread, non nufc one but possibly the worst one ever. A long time ago and i was younger but Zidane had just had an amazing World Cup and was looking for a move and had stated that moving somewhere with a coast was something he was looking for, and i think Shoot magazing did a gossip section on possible transfers (whihc were blantantly made up) and i think one of there comments was that Scarborough were looking to sign him, obviously a joke and tongue in cheek but i took it seriously i genuinely thought that there was a chane that Zidane would consider......

 

 

[Tooj]

Back to the thread, non nufc one but possibly the worst one ever. A long time ago and i was younger but Zidane had just had an amazing World Cup and was looking for a move and had stated that moving somewhere with a coast was something he was looking for, and i think Shoot magazing did a gossip section on possible transfers (whihc were blantantly made up) and i think one of there comments was that Scarborough were looking to sign him, obviously a joke and tongue in cheek but i took it seriously i genuinely thought that there was a chane that Zidane would consider......

 

 

 

Fergie turned down Zidane didn't he?

[oldtype]

I just recalled that after Luque's debut I was genuinely in love with him. For some reason he was really passionate and getting stuck in that day. Thought he had bags of skill with a great attitude to boot.

 

Turned out I was wrong on both counts, of course.

[fredbob]

Back to the thread, non nufc one but possibly the worst one ever. A long time ago and i was younger but Zidane had just had an amazing World Cup and was looking for a move and had stated that moving somewhere with a coast was something he was looking for, and i think Shoot magazing did a gossip section on possible transfers (whihc were blantantly made up) and i think one of there comments was that Scarborough were looking to sign him, obviously a joke and tongue in cheek but i took it seriously i genuinely thought that there was a chane that Zidane would consider......

 

 

 

Fergie turned down Zidane didn't he?

 

 

I dunno, did he? Would be an interesting thread, to see who got turned down by a team and turned out to be great....ill start with Shearer.

[Newcastle Fan]

I just recalled that after Luque's debut I was genuinely in love with him. For some reason he was really passionate and getting stuck in that day. Thought he had bags of skill with a great attitude to boot.

 

Turned out I was wrong on both counts, of course.

 

Pretty much the same and kept on saying he'll come good till the day we sold him

[Happy Face]

Less back-patting over being right and more owning up to being wrong here lads.

 

 

 

Six games into Keegan’s tenure and the booing has started.  After the final whistle of our 5-1 drubbing at the hands of Man Utd (an aggregate score of 11-1), as I started the walk down the Leazes’ 7 flights of hell, I had no intention whatsoever of applauding the shambles that I’d just witnessed, a first half that might have inspired muted applause was eclipsed by yet another embarrassing second half capitulation which means we’ve now conceded 52 times in our 27 league games.  My hand was forced though in response to the ripple of boo’s that went around the stadium.

 

Some of our players have put in performances to be ashamed of over the last 11 games and beyond.  Only Derby have conceded more (just) and they’re about to be relegated with the lowest points tally since the mackems got less points than anyone would imagine was possible over 9 months.  Of course, the fact that we’re the only team that Derby managed to get 3 points off so far this season speaks volumes.

 

So, a lot of people would ask, why shouldn’t we boo?  Things simply haven’t been good enough.  But the entire squad haven’t got together and agreed to throw in the towel, there’s one man who bred a lack of confidence throughout our squad in an attempt to build a long term plucky underdog spirit like he formed at his previous club.  Sam Allardyce went all out to lower expectations at our club, with every team talk and every interview he showed the level of his expectation from players that HE bought.

 

Going to the likes of Reading, Derby and Wigan he asked his players first and foremost not to concede.  If we did get a goal from a set piece, all well and good, but the entire set-up was built around negativity.  When this did bring three points (against the likes of Fulham)  Big Sam was the only one that couldn’t see that the end wasn’t justifying the means, he took those results as confirmation of his methods, while everyone else could see that the performances (win, lose or draw) blew his theory out of the water.  Sam told us defence had always been our problem up here, ignoring the fact that the season before he arrived, we conceded less than fifth placed Tottenham while finishing 13th.  Scoring was the problem that left us with a negative goal difference that year.

 

My point is that any booing in the stadium at the moment can only be directed squarely at the fat man.  The problem is, he can’t hear us because he’s doing a few laps of his swimming pool full of our money Scrooge McDuck style.  Since taking charge, Keegan’s Newcastle have lost four out of six games. Three of those were against the best two teams in the country.  And champions league chasing Villa were never going to be pushovers.  The gnashing of teeth is a knee jerk reaction to the team Allardyce built falling short of unrealistic expectations.

 

Judge our performances against teams like Bolton and Boro.  The games to come against  Birmingham, Fulham, Reading and the Mackems.  These are the games Keegan can say with utter conviction “There’s 3 points for the taking here”.  These are the games that will keep us safe and give us a summer to get Allardyce completely out of our system.   The reason we look like we have no answers against Arsenal and Man Utd, is because we don’t.  Accept it, and continue to support the team, don’t add to the work done by Allardyce in attempting to break their spirit completely.

 

Loathe as I am to credit other fans, Liverpool showed on Tuesday what support is all about.  Their manager is under more pressure than ours, they're as unhappy with their owners as we've ever been and they were knocked out of the FA cup by Barnsley in the previous game.  But did they boo after that defeat or while 10-man Inter held them?  Did they use the stick?  No, they used the carrot?  Anfield was an awesome sight of true support on Tuesday, the racket they made was a tribute to them.  The case could be made that having that 12th man on their side effectively won Liverpool the game (13th man if you count the ref they swayed into giving them every decision).

 

When we sing "We are the loyalest football supporters the world has ever had" we can justify it by pointing to the attendence figures, but in truth, we showed up about as much as Alan Smith on Saturday.  Let's start giving the players an example of pride which they can follow, I think the time it was best displayed was in Cardiff, a similar result against the same team, but every Geordie off the pitch could hold their head high after that performance.  On Saturday, we were as bad as the players.

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I confess I thought Alan Smith might be a decent signing as well.