Clear the Air Talks ?

[SUPERTOON]

Cant see us only having 20 million to spend coz what would the point of Ashley meeting KK yesterday.

 

The newspapers are lying one way or another if we do only have 20 million Ashley cant tell KK to stop sayng we cant be a top 4 club

 

If Ashley wants us to go for the top 4 he would give KK more than 20 million

[Rich]

Cant see us only having 20 million to spend coz what would the point of Ashley meeting KK yesterday.

 

The newspapers are lying one way or another if we do only have 20 million Ashley cant tell KK to stop sayng we cant be a top 4 club

 

If Ashley wants us to go for the top 4 he would give KK more than 20 million

 

Case in point.

[fredbob]

i agree with Tooj actually. however the only way we could reasonably expect to attract Rooney to the club ahead of the Man Utd's, or keep him here, is by having a good, well rounded team of players other than him. there's no chance a player like him would come if half the defence was full of glaring holes, or even if he did come, no chance he'd hang around unless we spent similar sums elsewhere in the side. unfortunately if you have a 2nd rate side out of europe, you can only get over-rated, injury-prone names like Owen, and even then by paying so much that your nearest competitors are priced out of the negotiations.

 

Id agree with him as well but i dont agree with it if its not in the best interests of the club  and when it was abundanlty clear that we needed a new CB and a midfilder after the chaiman had sold them with telling the manager then it makes it even more farcical that we'd go an attept to sign a player who no doubt is quality but not required.

 

At the moment we are short in midfield and maybe the CB position (not the the same degree as SBR was mind) we're not exactly ample in the striker departemnt like we were then but if a striker like Luca Toni came available and was signed by the club at the expense of other positions would it be recieved well by then fans?

 

I wouldnt take it well.

[NE5]

Trying to separate a trophy signing from a top player is pretty much like playing with words, semantics.

 

It cannot be encapsulated into something so simple, like a computer game, as there as so many other variables to take into consideration. There were two occasions in my memory when our club was 'clicking'.

 

Keegan had us at full click in his first stint as manager and there's no telling what may have happened if SJH's other financial obligations had not resulted in the club being effectively sold onto the stock exchange.

 

The next occasion was SBR, he had us fluctuating, at times, between 90-95% 'clicking', and there's a whole catalogue of speculation and rumour surrounding the demise of that regime.

 

Imbetween those times the club probably wasn't that healthy a place to be depending on your own personal psychological make-up. The point being is some of those players so regularly demonised could well have been entirley different propositions if they'd played whilst the club was clicking.

 

Boumsong, who for many is close to the anti-christ of football, played most of his term in a team that was under some kind of pressure. For all that he could look quite sublime in flashes.

 

Kluivert had been around the block and then some, he'd seen it all and maybe lost the spark that produces commitment and desire, or maybe it was still latent within him and circumstance conspired against him.

 

Luque possibly had mental health problems for all I know, but he also had talent if it could be harnessed and unleashed.

 

They were all here at the wrong time, wrong place. Any one of those guys would have been an entirely different proposition under the first Keegan revolution. At a time when the club was united. All too often in the interim periods it has been a club disunited.

 

All that said, my own feeling is during the periods of being disunited there have been some poor decisions made in the selection of players. It does appear as though some were bought with the idea that it would mollify any discontent amongst the rank and file of the  vociferous ones. (Namely us, the supporters.) If they were a known name the fans will be excited, if it was someone unknown.. it just wasn't an option.

 

The club as a United entity has been hung out to dry more times than it bears thinking about. As I stated in the beginning of this post, which has run a little over schedule, it has only clicked twice in my living memory. There's a chance it's about to start clicking again, and I'd like to see some unity surrounding the place to encourage the seed to fruition.

 

 

I liked that post mate, you should expand on it and send it into a fanzine or something.

 

 

[NE5]

NE5:

 

The question was a joke, you miserable old bugger. I thought that would be fairly obvious after you had asked me the same thing earlier.

 

Rooney was going to cost a fair bit more than £17M though, wasn't he (the sum of Duff, Barton and Smith)? It's more apt to say would you rather have Rooney at £27M or whatever it was, than all of the players we signed in the summer this time around. Despite the failures of some of them, I still think that would have been the right way to go if we only had £27M to spend.

 

It's a wank argument as it is like, but I'm trying to work with what you're giving me here. Totally different timings and circumstances.

 

As for you not criticising the club for signing "them" - has someone else been on your account since the summer, then?

 

All we've heard from you is about "Johnny Averages" and "no ambition", which is the polar opposite stance of what others have taken in the past. The last board couldn't win with certain people on here and the current board can't win with certain people on here, I find the whole thing more amusing than anything else.

 

At the end of the day all I want for the club is success and for it to keep existing, I don't care whether it comes one way or another, but I just hope it comes. That's why you don't tend to hear me moaning on too much these days, I've accepted that I've got no say in the grand scheme of things and I'm happy to ride the wave and see where it takes us.

 

I'm happy Shepherd is gone simply because I thought the man was a cunt and that he'd had his time here, I have no qualms admitting that he had his good spells and he did a lot of good, but the club was sinking fast and he'd lost the fans. His position was untenable. He's just a man though, like Ashley is, like Mort is, it's the club that matters.

 

not bad, some of what I said doesn't really look like I wanted.......look at it as meaning that even I can accept that every player can't cost 20m quid, and take it also as meaning that of course I'm aware that sometimes you find a gem for less money ......

 

Its the general attitude of the club, is what I'm talking about.

 

As said in the other post, when players become available, players so good that you have to have, then you simply MUST try and get the money and get them. For a club like Newcastle, this is quite simply not a problem or shouldn't be a problem. The club is too big to be run on over stringent prudency, but it bothers me that the new board appear to be making noises that suggest this is what they are going to do. You should ALWAYS be looking at buying players for any position, better than what you have.

 

It is what has led to the events of this week, and Keegan should know.

 

I've never denied that Shepherd may have been a cunt sometimes, but basically I'm not bothered by off the field things, up to a point. I just don't care. I don't want a nice man running the club who doesn't have any ambition for it, I saw that for 30 years, many other clubs still have it. I just don't want it. I just want a board who back its manager and aim for real success, and I don't care who they are, what their backround is, or what they do, so long as they deliver this. This is what the successful clubs do. Chelsea fans don't care where Abramovic makes his money, ManU fans didn't care about Edwards and for the moment may not like the  Glaziers but aren't making any noises because they are winning trophies too.

 

Thanks for calling me a miserable old bugger  ......... I'm neither, you young whippersnapper you .... 

 

 

[Rich]

I suppose we've got there in the end then. I agree that I would like to see Keegan backed with some serious cash in the market, and after that bid for Modric I think it's safe to say that we should see a lot of money being spent. My major concern is the wage budget, though, and I can see why the owner wouldn't want that to go any higher than it already is.

 

However, it is possible to reduce the wage budget AND bring better players in (for big money) as long as you get rid of the players who aren't doing the business for us at the current time and who are on the fat contracts.

 

The thing is, with Ashley here, we are now in a position where we have an owner who can use his own money to finance the sort of spending you talk about. Putting everything else about Freddy aside, the fact was that he wasn't rich enough to do that off his own back, he had to get the money from elsewhere - be it getting the Northern Rock money together or taking out loans.

 

I daresay that had Freddy Shepherd been sitting on a £1.7b fortune or whatever Ashley is worth, we'd have seen more than £16M as our record purchase, I understand that, but it's not always the answer.

 

Of course the club should always be looking to better itself, but not to the point of liquidation or desperation, there were times under Shepherd when there didn't appear to be a pot to piss in, unfortunately.

 

The thing that always gives me hope is that Mike Ashley is supposed to be in this thing to be a fan, he attends loads of games... what I think is that a man like that does not want to sit and watch "Johnny Averages" for 90 minutes a week. He'll want to score goals, win games, and win trophies. If he does that, he knows he'll be an absolute hero in these parts until the day that he dies. In fairness, the club has just bid £20M for a 22-year-old. Which does show some ambition if they were really after him.

 

That's what I hope Keegan is drumming into him, I really do, playing to his ego. But again, fair play to Ashley if he puts that to the side and says "no, I want this football club to be run properly and safely, like Spurs/Arsenal/whoever". It might take longer to get there, but we'll still be getting there. Spurs haven't done too badly by spending fairly sensible amounts in recent seasons and they're spending more and more all the time because of it.

[Mowen]

Some quality posts on this page in particular, especially GypsyKing, very good read.

[NE5]

I suppose we've got there in the end then. I agree that I would like to see Keegan backed with some serious cash in the market, and after that bid for Modric I think it's safe to say that we should see a lot of money being spent. My major concern is the wage budget, though, and I can see why the owner wouldn't want that to go any higher than it already is.

 

However, it is possible to reduce the wage budget AND bring better players in (for big money) as long as you get rid of the players who aren't doing the business for us at the current time and who are on the fat contracts.

 

The thing is, with Ashley here, we are now in a position where we have an owner who can use his own money to finance the sort of spending you talk about. Putting everything else about Freddy aside, the fact was that he wasn't rich enough to do that off his own back, he had to get the money from elsewhere - be it getting the Northern Rock money together or taking out loans.

 

I daresay that had Freddy Shepherd been sitting on a £1.7b fortune or whatever Ashley is worth, we'd have seen more than £16M as our record purchase, I understand that, but it's not always the answer.

 

Of course the club should always be looking to better itself, but not to the point of liquidation or desperation, there were times under Shepherd when there didn't appear to be a pot to piss in, unfortunately.

 

The thing that always gives me hope is that Mike Ashley is supposed to be in this thing to be a fan, he attends loads of games... what I think is that a man like that does not want to sit and watch "Johnny Averages" for 90 minutes a week. He'll want to score goals, win games, and win trophies. If he does that, he knows he'll be an absolute hero in these parts until the day that he dies. In fairness, the club has just bid £20M for a 22-year-old. Which does show some ambition if they were really after him.

 

That's what I hope Keegan is drumming into him, I really do, playing to his ego. But again, fair play to Ashley if he puts that to the side and says "no, I want this football club to be run properly and safely, like Spurs/Arsenal/whoever". It might take longer to get there, but we'll still be getting there. Spurs haven't done too badly by spending fairly sensible amounts in recent seasons and they're spending more and more all the time because of it.

 

we'll be getting there so long as he has a manager who knows what he's doing, Alex Ferguson knows what he's doing and still spent big money.

 

The other danger is that Keegan has the potential to do for this club what we want, and Ashley may miss the boat with him if he doesn't realise it.

 

 

[Rich]

Ferguson didn't always get it right either, it must be said, it's not just us who have made bad signings over the years.

 

It's an exciting time, I think, certainly moreso than it has been for a number of years.

[fredbob]

NE5:

 

The question was a joke, you miserable old bugger. I thought that would be fairly obvious after you had asked me the same thing earlier.

 

Rooney was going to cost a fair bit more than £17M though, wasn't he (the sum of Duff, Barton and Smith)? It's more apt to say would you rather have Rooney at £27M or whatever it was, than all of the players we signed in the summer this time around. Despite the failures of some of them, I still think that would have been the right way to go if we only had £27M to spend.

 

It's a w*** argument as it is like, but I'm trying to work with what you're giving me here. Totally different timings and circumstances.

 

As for you not criticising the club for signing "them" - has someone else been on your account since the summer, then?

 

All we've heard from you is about "Johnny Averages" and "no ambition", which is the polar opposite stance of what others have taken in the past. The last board couldn't win with certain people on here and the current board can't win with certain people on here, I find the whole thing more amusing than anything else.

 

At the end of the day all I want for the club is success and for it to keep existing, I don't care whether it comes one way or another, but I just hope it comes. That's why you don't tend to hear me moaning on too much these days, I've accepted that I've got no say in the grand scheme of things and I'm happy to ride the wave and see where it takes us.

 

I'm happy Shepherd is gone simply because I thought the man was a c*** and that he'd had his time here, I have no qualms admitting that he had his good spells and he did a lot of good, but the club was sinking fast and he'd lost the fans. His position was untenable. He's just a man though, like Ashley is, like Mort is, it's the club that matters.

 

not bad, some of what I said doesn't really look like I wanted.......look at it as meaning that even I can accept that every player can't cost 20m quid, and take it also as meaning that of course I'm aware that sometimes you find a gem for less money ......

 

Its the general attitude of the club, is what I'm talking about.

 

As said in the other post, when players become available, players so good that you have to have, then you simply MUST try and get the money and get them. For a club like Newcastle, this is quite simply not a problem or shouldn't be a problem. The club is too big to be run on over stringent prudency, but it bothers me that the new board appear to be making noises that suggest this is what they are going to do. You should ALWAYS be looking at buying players for any position, better than what you have.

 

It is what has led to the events of this week, and Keegan should know.

 

I've never denied that Shepherd may have been a c*** sometimes, but basically I'm not bothered by off the field things, up to a point. I just don't care. I don't want a nice man running the club who doesn't have any ambition for it, I saw that for 30 years, many other clubs still have it. I just don't want it. I just want a board who back its manager and aim for real success, and I don't care who they are, what their backround is, or what they do, so long as they deliver this. This is what the successful clubs do. Chelsea fans don't care where Abramovic makes his money, ManU fans didn't care about Edwards and for the moment may not like the  Glaziers but aren't making any noises because they are winning trophies too.

 

Thanks for calling me a miserable old bugger  ......... I'm neither, you young whippersnapper you .... 

 

 

 

Good post. I actually agree to some extent with alot of sentiment thats it that post but some of it regarding financial prudency is a bit unfair - esepcially as we have had substantials bits made for anumber of players.

[Mowen]

Ferguson didn't always get it right either, it must be said, it's not just us who have made bad signings over the years.

 

It's an exciting time, I think, certainly moreso than it has been for a number of years.

 

After a few years of regression, we now have the right manager to potentially take us to the next level. I'm very excited, and hope this oppertunity is taken. Could be a very interesting summer.

[NE5]

NE5:

 

The question was a joke, you miserable old bugger. I thought that would be fairly obvious after you had asked me the same thing earlier.

 

Rooney was going to cost a fair bit more than £17M though, wasn't he (the sum of Duff, Barton and Smith)? It's more apt to say would you rather have Rooney at £27M or whatever it was, than all of the players we signed in the summer this time around. Despite the failures of some of them, I still think that would have been the right way to go if we only had £27M to spend.

 

It's a w*** argument as it is like, but I'm trying to work with what you're giving me here. Totally different timings and circumstances.

 

As for you not criticising the club for signing "them" - has someone else been on your account since the summer, then?

 

All we've heard from you is about "Johnny Averages" and "no ambition", which is the polar opposite stance of what others have taken in the past. The last board couldn't win with certain people on here and the current board can't win with certain people on here, I find the whole thing more amusing than anything else.

 

At the end of the day all I want for the club is success and for it to keep existing, I don't care whether it comes one way or another, but I just hope it comes. That's why you don't tend to hear me moaning on too much these days, I've accepted that I've got no say in the grand scheme of things and I'm happy to ride the wave and see where it takes us.

 

I'm happy Shepherd is gone simply because I thought the man was a c*** and that he'd had his time here, I have no qualms admitting that he had his good spells and he did a lot of good, but the club was sinking fast and he'd lost the fans. His position was untenable. He's just a man though, like Ashley is, like Mort is, it's the club that matters.

 

not bad, some of what I said doesn't really look like I wanted.......look at it as meaning that even I can accept that every player can't cost 20m quid, and take it also as meaning that of course I'm aware that sometimes you find a gem for less money ......

 

Its the general attitude of the club, is what I'm talking about.

 

As said in the other post, when players become available, players so good that you have to have, then you simply MUST try and get the money and get them. For a club like Newcastle, this is quite simply not a problem or shouldn't be a problem. The club is too big to be run on over stringent prudency, but it bothers me that the new board appear to be making noises that suggest this is what they are going to do. You should ALWAYS be looking at buying players for any position, better than what you have.

 

It is what has led to the events of this week, and Keegan should know.

 

I've never denied that Shepherd may have been a c*** sometimes, but basically I'm not bothered by off the field things, up to a point. I just don't care. I don't want a nice man running the club who doesn't have any ambition for it, I saw that for 30 years, many other clubs still have it. I just don't want it. I just want a board who back its manager and aim for real success, and I don't care who they are, what their backround is, or what they do, so long as they deliver this. This is what the successful clubs do. Chelsea fans don't care where Abramovic makes his money, ManU fans didn't care about Edwards and for the moment may not like the  Glaziers but aren't making any noises because they are winning trophies too.

 

Thanks for calling me a miserable old bugger  ......... I'm neither, you young whippersnapper you .... 

 

 

 

Good post. I actually agree to some extent with alot of sentiment thats it that post but some of it regarding financial prudency is a bit unfair - esepcially as we have had substantials bits made for anumber of players.

 

Well, if we bought a centre forward with more mobility than Viduka, say Ashton - a midfield player such as Modric would have been, and a centre back like Richard Dunne to go alongside Taylor and Faye and fight for places and give us strength in depth, I'd be fairly pleased with that for the moment.

 

Then David Bentley came along and the club said he had spent his  budget.

 

Well, I would be unhappy with this. This is what I mean. Newcastle are too big to exercise such prudency. The spend would be worth it, and I'd be be dismayed to miss out on such a player and such an opportunity. This the difference between a truly ambitious club and a lesser one. Especially considering the ground we want to make up on the top teams.

 

Also consider that a "sell to buy" policy is inappropriate in such circumstances too.I can accept that in this event, one or two players would go ie Milner and/or Duff if he doesn't come good, but you sort the books out later and get the player while you can.

 

[Mowen]

Bentley would be a fantastic signing.

[fredbob]

NE5:

 

The question was a joke, you miserable old bugger. I thought that would be fairly obvious after you had asked me the same thing earlier.

 

Rooney was going to cost a fair bit more than £17M though, wasn't he (the sum of Duff, Barton and Smith)? It's more apt to say would you rather have Rooney at £27M or whatever it was, than all of the players we signed in the summer this time around. Despite the failures of some of them, I still think that would have been the right way to go if we only had £27M to spend.

 

It's a w*** argument as it is like, but I'm trying to work with what you're giving me here. Totally different timings and circumstances.

 

As for you not criticising the club for signing "them" - has someone else been on your account since the summer, then?

 

All we've heard from you is about "Johnny Averages" and "no ambition", which is the polar opposite stance of what others have taken in the past. The last board couldn't win with certain people on here and the current board can't win with certain people on here, I find the whole thing more amusing than anything else.

 

At the end of the day all I want for the club is success and for it to keep existing, I don't care whether it comes one way or another, but I just hope it comes. That's why you don't tend to hear me moaning on too much these days, I've accepted that I've got no say in the grand scheme of things and I'm happy to ride the wave and see where it takes us.

 

I'm happy Shepherd is gone simply because I thought the man was a c*** and that he'd had his time here, I have no qualms admitting that he had his good spells and he did a lot of good, but the club was sinking fast and he'd lost the fans. His position was untenable. He's just a man though, like Ashley is, like Mort is, it's the club that matters.

 

not bad, some of what I said doesn't really look like I wanted.......look at it as meaning that even I can accept that every player can't cost 20m quid, and take it also as meaning that of course I'm aware that sometimes you find a gem for less money ......

 

Its the general attitude of the club, is what I'm talking about.

 

As said in the other post, when players become available, players so good that you have to have, then you simply MUST try and get the money and get them. For a club like Newcastle, this is quite simply not a problem or shouldn't be a problem. The club is too big to be run on over stringent prudency, but it bothers me that the new board appear to be making noises that suggest this is what they are going to do. You should ALWAYS be looking at buying players for any position, better than what you have.

 

It is what has led to the events of this week, and Keegan should know.

 

I've never denied that Shepherd may have been a c*** sometimes, but basically I'm not bothered by off the field things, up to a point. I just don't care. I don't want a nice man running the club who doesn't have any ambition for it, I saw that for 30 years, many other clubs still have it. I just don't want it. I just want a board who back its manager and aim for real success, and I don't care who they are, what their backround is, or what they do, so long as they deliver this. This is what the successful clubs do. Chelsea fans don't care where Abramovic makes his money, ManU fans didn't care about Edwards and for the moment may not like the Glaziers but aren't making any noises because they are winning trophies too.

 

Thanks for calling me a miserable old bugger ......... I'm neither, you young whippersnapper you ....

 

 

 

Good post. I actually agree to some extent with alot of sentiment thats it that post but some of it regarding financial prudency is a bit unfair - esepcially as we have had substantials bits made for anumber of players.

 

Well, if we bought a centre forward with more mobility than Viduka, say Ashton - a midfield player such as Modric would have been, and a centre back like Richard Dunne to go alongside Taylor and Faye and fight for places and give us strength in depth, I'd be fairly pleased with that for the moment.

 

Then David Bentley came along and the club said he had spent his budget.

 

Well, I would be unhappy with this. This is what I mean. Newcastle are too big to exercise such prudency. The spend would be worth it, and I'd be be dismayed to miss out on such a player and such an opportunity. This the difference between a truly ambitious club and a lesser one. Especially considering the ground we want to make up on the top teams.

 

Also consider that a "sell to buy" policy is inappropriate in such circumstances too.I can accept that in this event, one or two players would go ie Milner and/or Duff if he doesn't come good, but you sort the books out later and get the player while you can.

 

 

Again thats a fair point but id actually be more unhappy if it was the other way round and we missed out on Dunne, Ashton and Modric and got just Bentley instead. This is the crux of my argument.

 

EDIT: well how do you sort the books out later if what you do doesnt lead to success and financial benefits - at which point would we call it time on our expenditure and look to sell or lower wages, that seems a bit contradictory. Especially as that is exactly the situation we were in when Ashley came in. There needs to be a compromise somehwere and for me the best way to do it is to stick to a given budget - as much as id hate to miss out on Bentley if he were to come available but we had already spent our lot on him then thats tough - theres is always next season adn there are always other players.

 

[NE5]

NE5:

 

The question was a joke, you miserable old bugger. I thought that would be fairly obvious after you had asked me the same thing earlier.

 

Rooney was going to cost a fair bit more than £17M though, wasn't he (the sum of Duff, Barton and Smith)? It's more apt to say would you rather have Rooney at £27M or whatever it was, than all of the players we signed in the summer this time around. Despite the failures of some of them, I still think that would have been the right way to go if we only had £27M to spend.

 

It's a w*** argument as it is like, but I'm trying to work with what you're giving me here. Totally different timings and circumstances.

 

As for you not criticising the club for signing "them" - has someone else been on your account since the summer, then?

 

All we've heard from you is about "Johnny Averages" and "no ambition", which is the polar opposite stance of what others have taken in the past. The last board couldn't win with certain people on here and the current board can't win with certain people on here, I find the whole thing more amusing than anything else.

 

At the end of the day all I want for the club is success and for it to keep existing, I don't care whether it comes one way or another, but I just hope it comes. That's why you don't tend to hear me moaning on too much these days, I've accepted that I've got no say in the grand scheme of things and I'm happy to ride the wave and see where it takes us.

 

I'm happy Shepherd is gone simply because I thought the man was a c*** and that he'd had his time here, I have no qualms admitting that he had his good spells and he did a lot of good, but the club was sinking fast and he'd lost the fans. His position was untenable. He's just a man though, like Ashley is, like Mort is, it's the club that matters.

 

not bad, some of what I said doesn't really look like I wanted.......look at it as meaning that even I can accept that every player can't cost 20m quid, and take it also as meaning that of course I'm aware that sometimes you find a gem for less money ......

 

Its the general attitude of the club, is what I'm talking about.

 

As said in the other post, when players become available, players so good that you have to have, then you simply MUST try and get the money and get them. For a club like Newcastle, this is quite simply not a problem or shouldn't be a problem. The club is too big to be run on over stringent prudency, but it bothers me that the new board appear to be making noises that suggest this is what they are going to do. You should ALWAYS be looking at buying players for any position, better than what you have.

 

It is what has led to the events of this week, and Keegan should know.

 

I've never denied that Shepherd may have been a c*** sometimes, but basically I'm not bothered by off the field things, up to a point. I just don't care. I don't want a nice man running the club who doesn't have any ambition for it, I saw that for 30 years, many other clubs still have it. I just don't want it. I just want a board who back its manager and aim for real success, and I don't care who they are, what their backround is, or what they do, so long as they deliver this. This is what the successful clubs do. Chelsea fans don't care where Abramovic makes his money, ManU fans didn't care about Edwards and for the moment may not like the  Glaziers but aren't making any noises because they are winning trophies too.

 

Thanks for calling me a miserable old bugger  ......... I'm neither, you young whippersnapper you .... 

 

 

 

Good post. I actually agree to some extent with alot of sentiment thats it that post but some of it regarding financial prudency is a bit unfair - esepcially as we have had substantials bits made for anumber of players.

 

Well, if we bought a centre forward with more mobility than Viduka, say Ashton - a midfield player such as Modric would have been, and a centre back like Richard Dunne to go alongside Taylor and Faye and fight for places and give us strength in depth, I'd be fairly pleased with that for the moment.

 

Then David Bentley came along and the club said he had spent his  budget.

 

Well, I would be unhappy with this. This is what I mean. Newcastle are too big to exercise such prudency. The spend would be worth it, and I'd be be dismayed to miss out on such a player and such an opportunity. This the difference between a truly ambitious club and a lesser one. Especially considering the ground we want to make up on the top teams.

 

Also consider that a "sell to buy" policy is inappropriate in such circumstances too.I can accept that in this event, one or two players would go ie Milner and/or Duff if he doesn't come good, but you sort the books out later and get the player while you can.

 

 

Again thats a fair point but id actually be more unhappy if it was the other way round and we missed out on Dunne, Ashton and Modric and got just Bentley instead. This is the crux of my argument.

 

EDIT: well how do you sort the books out later if what you do doesnt lead to success and financial benefits - at which point would we call it time on our expenditure and look to sell or lower wages, that seems a bit contradictory. Especially as that is exactly the situation we were in when Ashley came in. There needs to be a compromise somehwere and for me the best way to do it is to stick to a given budget - as much as id hate to miss out on Bentley if he were to come available but we had already spent our lot on him then thats tough - theres is always next season adn there are always other players.

 

 

fair enough, but essentially the truly successful clubs that win trophies would operate like that and buy Bentley. Thats my argument.

 

Wenger is the one manager that has been able to operate differently but now that he is losing his best players, even he may come to the conclusion that he'll have to modify his stance

 

And Arsenal now have a big debt due to building a new stadium, bad news for him eh ........ ring any bells ?

 

 

[Dave]

NE5, would you be happy if we spent £20m on Bentley this summer but only brought in two cheap others, both who weren't very good?

 

I'm guessing you wouldn't.

[madras]

NE5:

 

The question was a joke, you miserable old bugger. I thought that would be fairly obvious after you had asked me the same thing earlier.

 

Rooney was going to cost a fair bit more than £17M though, wasn't he (the sum of Duff, Barton and Smith)? It's more apt to say would you rather have Rooney at £27M or whatever it was, than all of the players we signed in the summer this time around. Despite the failures of some of them, I still think that would have been the right way to go if we only had £27M to spend.

 

It's a w*** argument as it is like, but I'm trying to work with what you're giving me here. Totally different timings and circumstances.

 

As for you not criticising the club for signing "them" - has someone else been on your account since the summer, then?

 

All we've heard from you is about "Johnny Averages" and "no ambition", which is the polar opposite stance of what others have taken in the past. The last board couldn't win with certain people on here and the current board can't win with certain people on here, I find the whole thing more amusing than anything else.

 

At the end of the day all I want for the club is success and for it to keep existing, I don't care whether it comes one way or another, but I just hope it comes. That's why you don't tend to hear me moaning on too much these days, I've accepted that I've got no say in the grand scheme of things and I'm happy to ride the wave and see where it takes us.

 

I'm happy Shepherd is gone simply because I thought the man was a c*** and that he'd had his time here, I have no qualms admitting that he had his good spells and he did a lot of good, but the club was sinking fast and he'd lost the fans. His position was untenable. He's just a man though, like Ashley is, like Mort is, it's the club that matters.

 

not bad, some of what I said doesn't really look like I wanted.......look at it as meaning that even I can accept that every player can't cost 20m quid, and take it also as meaning that of course I'm aware that sometimes you find a gem for less money ......

 

Its the general attitude of the club, is what I'm talking about.

 

As said in the other post, when players become available, players so good that you have to have, then you simply MUST try and get the money and get them. For a club like Newcastle, this is quite simply not a problem or shouldn't be a problem. The club is too big to be run on over stringent prudency, but it bothers me that the new board appear to be making noises that suggest this is what they are going to do. You should ALWAYS be looking at buying players for any position, better than what you have.

 

It is what has led to the events of this week, and Keegan should know.

 

I've never denied that Shepherd may have been a c*** sometimes, but basically I'm not bothered by off the field things, up to a point. I just don't care. I don't want a nice man running the club who doesn't have any ambition for it, I saw that for 30 years, many other clubs still have it. I just don't want it. I just want a board who back its manager and aim for real success, and I don't care who they are, what their backround is, or what they do, so long as they deliver this. This is what the successful clubs do. Chelsea fans don't care where Abramovic makes his money, ManU fans didn't care about Edwards and for the moment may not like the  Glaziers but aren't making any noises because they are winning trophies too.

 

Thanks for calling me a miserable old bugger  ......... I'm neither, you young whippersnapper you .... 

 

 

 

Good post. I actually agree to some extent with alot of sentiment thats it that post but some of it regarding financial prudency is a bit unfair - esepcially as we have had substantials bits made for anumber of players.

 

Well, if we bought a centre forward with more mobility than Viduka, say Ashton - a midfield player such as Modric would have been, and a centre back like Richard Dunne to go alongside Taylor and Faye and fight for places and give us strength in depth, I'd be fairly pleased with that for the moment.

 

Then David Bentley came along and the club said he had spent his  budget.

 

Well, I would be unhappy with this. This is what I mean. Newcastle are too big to exercise such prudency. The spend would be worth it, and I'd be be dismayed to miss out on such a player and such an opportunity. This the difference between a truly ambitious club and a lesser one. Especially considering the ground we want to make up on the top teams.

 

Also consider that a "sell to buy" policy is inappropriate in such circumstances too.I can accept that in this event, one or two players would go ie Milner and/or Duff if he doesn't come good, but you sort the books out later and get the player while you can.

 

 

Again thats a fair point but id actually be more unhappy if it was the other way round and we missed out on Dunne, Ashton and Modric and got just Bentley instead. This is the crux of my argument.

 

EDIT: well how do you sort the books out later if what you do doesnt lead to success and financial benefits - at which point would we call it time on our expenditure and look to sell or lower wages, that seems a bit contradictory. Especially as that is exactly the situation we were in when Ashley came in. There needs to be a compromise somehwere and for me the best way to do it is to stick to a given budget - as much as id hate to miss out on Bentley if he were to come available but we had already spent our lot on him then thats tough - theres is always next season adn there are always other players.

 

 

fair enough, but essentially the truly successful clubs that win trophies would operate like that and buy Bentley. Thats my argument.

 

Wenger is the one manager that has been able to operate differently but now that he is losing his best players, even he may come to the conclusion that he'll have to modify his stance

 

And Arsenal now have a big debt due to building a new stadium, bad news for him eh ........ ring any bells ?

 

 

the truly succesful clubs have the money to do that or the turnover to finance the debt or abramovic.

 

 

maybe if we had built on our champs league appearances we'd be in liverpools place now.

[NE5]

NE5, would you be happy if we spent £20m on Bentley this summer but only brought in two cheap others, both who weren't very good?

 

I'm guessing you wouldn't.

 

no, I don't see the point in any manager bringing in any player who he thinks isn't good enough to strengthen his team or at least strengthen a small squad, but generally speaking I don't see the point in paying good money for players who you think aren't of a particular standard.

 

I would rather he bought Bentley and nobody, rather than 2 other players not good enough. And if he bought nobody else, I would want to know why.

 

Its a strange one, there is always exceptions. The last time, he brought Allen and Mathie for cover for Cole and Beardsley, when Beardsley was injured pre-season, yet it didn't seem like lack of ambition because you knew the club were showing it, aiming for the top and were backing him as much as possible. He also bought Darren Huckerby for a small fee because he saw a potential in him. Didn't work out either but you didn't question the ambition, it was obviously there.

 

The thing is, smaller clubs than us will be spending more than 20m quid, and just right now, we sort of need at least 3 players to get back into the european places.

 

Don't think Bentley would cost 20m like, or he wouldn't have done in January, but he will do if he steps up a level and gets more England caps.

 

 

[Guest Knightrider]

I can confirm that all is well at SJP and that KK has indeed got what he wanted (what his comments were designed to instigate). It's all systems go now.

 

 

[Tooj]

I can confirm that all is well at SJP and that KK has indeed got what he wanted (what his comments were designed to instigate). It's all systems go now.

 

 

 

So you're the mole then?

 

That post's about as fucking cryptic as a Parky "ITK" post btw.

[johnnypd]

I can confirm that all is well at SJP and that KK has indeed got what he wanted (what his comments were designed to instigate). It's all systems go now.

 

 

 

says who?

[NE5]

NE5:

 

The question was a joke, you miserable old bugger. I thought that would be fairly obvious after you had asked me the same thing earlier.

 

Rooney was going to cost a fair bit more than £17M though, wasn't he (the sum of Duff, Barton and Smith)? It's more apt to say would you rather have Rooney at £27M or whatever it was, than all of the players we signed in the summer this time around. Despite the failures of some of them, I still think that would have been the right way to go if we only had £27M to spend.

 

It's a w*** argument as it is like, but I'm trying to work with what you're giving me here. Totally different timings and circumstances.

 

As for you not criticising the club for signing "them" - has someone else been on your account since the summer, then?

 

All we've heard from you is about "Johnny Averages" and "no ambition", which is the polar opposite stance of what others have taken in the past. The last board couldn't win with certain people on here and the current board can't win with certain people on here, I find the whole thing more amusing than anything else.

 

At the end of the day all I want for the club is success and for it to keep existing, I don't care whether it comes one way or another, but I just hope it comes. That's why you don't tend to hear me moaning on too much these days, I've accepted that I've got no say in the grand scheme of things and I'm happy to ride the wave and see where it takes us.

 

I'm happy Shepherd is gone simply because I thought the man was a c*** and that he'd had his time here, I have no qualms admitting that he had his good spells and he did a lot of good, but the club was sinking fast and he'd lost the fans. His position was untenable. He's just a man though, like Ashley is, like Mort is, it's the club that matters.

 

not bad, some of what I said doesn't really look like I wanted.......look at it as meaning that even I can accept that every player can't cost 20m quid, and take it also as meaning that of course I'm aware that sometimes you find a gem for less money ......

 

Its the general attitude of the club, is what I'm talking about.

 

As said in the other post, when players become available, players so good that you have to have, then you simply MUST try and get the money and get them. For a club like Newcastle, this is quite simply not a problem or shouldn't be a problem. The club is too big to be run on over stringent prudency, but it bothers me that the new board appear to be making noises that suggest this is what they are going to do. You should ALWAYS be looking at buying players for any position, better than what you have.

 

It is what has led to the events of this week, and Keegan should know.

 

I've never denied that Shepherd may have been a c*** sometimes, but basically I'm not bothered by off the field things, up to a point. I just don't care. I don't want a nice man running the club who doesn't have any ambition for it, I saw that for 30 years, many other clubs still have it. I just don't want it. I just want a board who back its manager and aim for real success, and I don't care who they are, what their backround is, or what they do, so long as they deliver this. This is what the successful clubs do. Chelsea fans don't care where Abramovic makes his money, ManU fans didn't care about Edwards and for the moment may not like the  Glaziers but aren't making any noises because they are winning trophies too.

 

Thanks for calling me a miserable old bugger  ......... I'm neither, you young whippersnapper you .... 

 

 

 

Good post. I actually agree to some extent with alot of sentiment thats it that post but some of it regarding financial prudency is a bit unfair - esepcially as we have had substantials bits made for anumber of players.

 

Well, if we bought a centre forward with more mobility than Viduka, say Ashton - a midfield player such as Modric would have been, and a centre back like Richard Dunne to go alongside Taylor and Faye and fight for places and give us strength in depth, I'd be fairly pleased with that for the moment.

 

Then David Bentley came along and the club said he had spent his  budget.

 

Well, I would be unhappy with this. This is what I mean. Newcastle are too big to exercise such prudency. The spend would be worth it, and I'd be be dismayed to miss out on such a player and such an opportunity. This the difference between a truly ambitious club and a lesser one. Especially considering the ground we want to make up on the top teams.

 

Also consider that a "sell to buy" policy is inappropriate in such circumstances too.I can accept that in this event, one or two players would go ie Milner and/or Duff if he doesn't come good, but you sort the books out later and get the player while you can.

 

 

Again thats a fair point but id actually be more unhappy if it was the other way round and we missed out on Dunne, Ashton and Modric and got just Bentley instead. This is the crux of my argument.

 

EDIT: well how do you sort the books out later if what you do doesnt lead to success and financial benefits - at which point would we call it time on our expenditure and look to sell or lower wages, that seems a bit contradictory. Especially as that is exactly the situation we were in when Ashley came in. There needs to be a compromise somehwere and for me the best way to do it is to stick to a given budget - as much as id hate to miss out on Bentley if he were to come available but we had already spent our lot on him then thats tough - theres is always next season adn there are always other players.

 

 

fair enough, but essentially the truly successful clubs that win trophies would operate like that and buy Bentley. Thats my argument.

 

Wenger is the one manager that has been able to operate differently but now that he is losing his best players, even he may come to the conclusion that he'll have to modify his stance

 

And Arsenal now have a big debt due to building a new stadium, bad news for him eh ........ ring any bells ?

 

 

the truly succesful clubs have the money to do that or the turnover to finance the debt or abramovic.

 

 

maybe if we had built on our champs league appearances we'd be in liverpools place now.

 

maybe, if it was spent well, but I hope you aren't criticising the club for spending money they don't have when you say that.

 

 

[madras]

NE5:

 

The question was a joke, you miserable old bugger. I thought that would be fairly obvious after you had asked me the same thing earlier.

 

Rooney was going to cost a fair bit more than £17M though, wasn't he (the sum of Duff, Barton and Smith)? It's more apt to say would you rather have Rooney at £27M or whatever it was, than all of the players we signed in the summer this time around. Despite the failures of some of them, I still think that would have been the right way to go if we only had £27M to spend.

 

It's a w*** argument as it is like, but I'm trying to work with what you're giving me here. Totally different timings and circumstances.

 

As for you not criticising the club for signing "them" - has someone else been on your account since the summer, then?

 

All we've heard from you is about "Johnny Averages" and "no ambition", which is the polar opposite stance of what others have taken in the past. The last board couldn't win with certain people on here and the current board can't win with certain people on here, I find the whole thing more amusing than anything else.

 

At the end of the day all I want for the club is success and for it to keep existing, I don't care whether it comes one way or another, but I just hope it comes. That's why you don't tend to hear me moaning on too much these days, I've accepted that I've got no say in the grand scheme of things and I'm happy to ride the wave and see where it takes us.

 

I'm happy Shepherd is gone simply because I thought the man was a c*** and that he'd had his time here, I have no qualms admitting that he had his good spells and he did a lot of good, but the club was sinking fast and he'd lost the fans. His position was untenable. He's just a man though, like Ashley is, like Mort is, it's the club that matters.

 

not bad, some of what I said doesn't really look like I wanted.......look at it as meaning that even I can accept that every player can't cost 20m quid, and take it also as meaning that of course I'm aware that sometimes you find a gem for less money ......

 

Its the general attitude of the club, is what I'm talking about.

 

As said in the other post, when players become available, players so good that you have to have, then you simply MUST try and get the money and get them. For a club like Newcastle, this is quite simply not a problem or shouldn't be a problem. The club is too big to be run on over stringent prudency, but it bothers me that the new board appear to be making noises that suggest this is what they are going to do. You should ALWAYS be looking at buying players for any position, better than what you have.

 

It is what has led to the events of this week, and Keegan should know.

 

I've never denied that Shepherd may have been a c*** sometimes, but basically I'm not bothered by off the field things, up to a point. I just don't care. I don't want a nice man running the club who doesn't have any ambition for it, I saw that for 30 years, many other clubs still have it. I just don't want it. I just want a board who back its manager and aim for real success, and I don't care who they are, what their backround is, or what they do, so long as they deliver this. This is what the successful clubs do. Chelsea fans don't care where Abramovic makes his money, ManU fans didn't care about Edwards and for the moment may not like the  Glaziers but aren't making any noises because they are winning trophies too.

 

Thanks for calling me a miserable old bugger  ......... I'm neither, you young whippersnapper you .... 

 

 

 

Good post. I actually agree to some extent with alot of sentiment thats it that post but some of it regarding financial prudency is a bit unfair - esepcially as we have had substantials bits made for anumber of players.

 

Well, if we bought a centre forward with more mobility than Viduka, say Ashton - a midfield player such as Modric would have been, and a centre back like Richard Dunne to go alongside Taylor and Faye and fight for places and give us strength in depth, I'd be fairly pleased with that for the moment.

 

Then David Bentley came along and the club said he had spent his  budget.

 

Well, I would be unhappy with this. This is what I mean. Newcastle are too big to exercise such prudency. The spend would be worth it, and I'd be be dismayed to miss out on such a player and such an opportunity. This the difference between a truly ambitious club and a lesser one. Especially considering the ground we want to make up on the top teams.

 

Also consider that a "sell to buy" policy is inappropriate in such circumstances too.I can accept that in this event, one or two players would go ie Milner and/or Duff if he doesn't come good, but you sort the books out later and get the player while you can.

 

 

Again thats a fair point but id actually be more unhappy if it was the other way round and we missed out on Dunne, Ashton and Modric and got just Bentley instead. This is the crux of my argument.

 

EDIT: well how do you sort the books out later if what you do doesnt lead to success and financial benefits - at which point would we call it time on our expenditure and look to sell or lower wages, that seems a bit contradictory. Especially as that is exactly the situation we were in when Ashley came in. There needs to be a compromise somehwere and for me the best way to do it is to stick to a given budget - as much as id hate to miss out on Bentley if he were to come available but we had already spent our lot on him then thats tough - theres is always next season adn there are always other players.

 

 

fair enough, but essentially the truly successful clubs that win trophies would operate like that and buy Bentley. Thats my argument.

 

Wenger is the one manager that has been able to operate differently but now that he is losing his best players, even he may come to the conclusion that he'll have to modify his stance

 

And Arsenal now have a big debt due to building a new stadium, bad news for him eh ........ ring any bells ?

 

 

the truly succesful clubs have the money to do that or the turnover to finance the debt or abramovic.

 

 

maybe if we had built on our champs league appearances we'd be in liverpools place now.

 

maybe, if it was spent well, but I hope you aren't criticising the club for spending money they don't have when you say that.

 

 

theres a difference between spending money you don't have a being reckless

[NE5]

NE5:

 

The question was a joke, you miserable old bugger. I thought that would be fairly obvious after you had asked me the same thing earlier.

 

Rooney was going to cost a fair bit more than £17M though, wasn't he (the sum of Duff, Barton and Smith)? It's more apt to say would you rather have Rooney at £27M or whatever it was, than all of the players we signed in the summer this time around. Despite the failures of some of them, I still think that would have been the right way to go if we only had £27M to spend.

 

It's a w*** argument as it is like, but I'm trying to work with what you're giving me here. Totally different timings and circumstances.

 

As for you not criticising the club for signing "them" - has someone else been on your account since the summer, then?

 

All we've heard from you is about "Johnny Averages" and "no ambition", which is the polar opposite stance of what others have taken in the past. The last board couldn't win with certain people on here and the current board can't win with certain people on here, I find the whole thing more amusing than anything else.

 

At the end of the day all I want for the club is success and for it to keep existing, I don't care whether it comes one way or another, but I just hope it comes. That's why you don't tend to hear me moaning on too much these days, I've accepted that I've got no say in the grand scheme of things and I'm happy to ride the wave and see where it takes us.

 

I'm happy Shepherd is gone simply because I thought the man was a c*** and that he'd had his time here, I have no qualms admitting that he had his good spells and he did a lot of good, but the club was sinking fast and he'd lost the fans. His position was untenable. He's just a man though, like Ashley is, like Mort is, it's the club that matters.

 

not bad, some of what I said doesn't really look like I wanted.......look at it as meaning that even I can accept that every player can't cost 20m quid, and take it also as meaning that of course I'm aware that sometimes you find a gem for less money ......

 

Its the general attitude of the club, is what I'm talking about.

 

As said in the other post, when players become available, players so good that you have to have, then you simply MUST try and get the money and get them. For a club like Newcastle, this is quite simply not a problem or shouldn't be a problem. The club is too big to be run on over stringent prudency, but it bothers me that the new board appear to be making noises that suggest this is what they are going to do. You should ALWAYS be looking at buying players for any position, better than what you have.

 

It is what has led to the events of this week, and Keegan should know.

 

I've never denied that Shepherd may have been a c*** sometimes, but basically I'm not bothered by off the field things, up to a point. I just don't care. I don't want a nice man running the club who doesn't have any ambition for it, I saw that for 30 years, many other clubs still have it. I just don't want it. I just want a board who back its manager and aim for real success, and I don't care who they are, what their backround is, or what they do, so long as they deliver this. This is what the successful clubs do. Chelsea fans don't care where Abramovic makes his money, ManU fans didn't care about Edwards and for the moment may not like the  Glaziers but aren't making any noises because they are winning trophies too.

 

Thanks for calling me a miserable old bugger  ......... I'm neither, you young whippersnapper you .... 

 

 

 

Good post. I actually agree to some extent with alot of sentiment thats it that post but some of it regarding financial prudency is a bit unfair - esepcially as we have had substantials bits made for anumber of players.

 

Well, if we bought a centre forward with more mobility than Viduka, say Ashton - a midfield player such as Modric would have been, and a centre back like Richard Dunne to go alongside Taylor and Faye and fight for places and give us strength in depth, I'd be fairly pleased with that for the moment.

 

Then David Bentley came along and the club said he had spent his  budget.

 

Well, I would be unhappy with this. This is what I mean. Newcastle are too big to exercise such prudency. The spend would be worth it, and I'd be be dismayed to miss out on such a player and such an opportunity. This the difference between a truly ambitious club and a lesser one. Especially considering the ground we want to make up on the top teams.

 

Also consider that a "sell to buy" policy is inappropriate in such circumstances too.I can accept that in this event, one or two players would go ie Milner and/or Duff if he doesn't come good, but you sort the books out later and get the player while you can.

 

 

Again thats a fair point but id actually be more unhappy if it was the other way round and we missed out on Dunne, Ashton and Modric and got just Bentley instead. This is the crux of my argument.

 

EDIT: well how do you sort the books out later if what you do doesnt lead to success and financial benefits - at which point would we call it time on our expenditure and look to sell or lower wages, that seems a bit contradictory. Especially as that is exactly the situation we were in when Ashley came in. There needs to be a compromise somehwere and for me the best way to do it is to stick to a given budget - as much as id hate to miss out on Bentley if he were to come available but we had already spent our lot on him then thats tough - theres is always next season adn there are always other players.

 

 

fair enough, but essentially the truly successful clubs that win trophies would operate like that and buy Bentley. Thats my argument.

 

Wenger is the one manager that has been able to operate differently but now that he is losing his best players, even he may come to the conclusion that he'll have to modify his stance

 

And Arsenal now have a big debt due to building a new stadium, bad news for him eh ........ ring any bells ?

 

 

the truly succesful clubs have the money to do that or the turnover to finance the debt or abramovic.

 

 

maybe if we had built on our champs league appearances we'd be in liverpools place now.

 

maybe, if it was spent well, but I hope you aren't criticising the club for spending money they don't have when you say that.

 

 

theres a difference between spending money you don't have a being reckless

 

Well I think buying Woodgate in January before anyone else knew he was available, ahead of the summer, was pretty smart going myself.

 

 

[Dave]

NE5, would you be happy if we spent £20m on Bentley this summer but only brought in two cheap others, both who weren't very good?

 

I'm guessing you wouldn't.

 

no, I don't see the point in any manager bringing in any player who he thinks isn't good enough to strengthen his team or at least strengthen a small squad, but generally speaking I don't see the point in paying good money for players who you think aren't of a particular standard.

 

I would rather he bought Bentley and nobody, rather than 2 other players not good enough. And if he bought nobody else, I would want to know why.

 

Its a strange one, there is always exceptions. The last time, he brought Allen and Mathie for cover for Cole and Beardsley, when Beardsley was injured pre-season, yet it didn't seem like lack of ambition because you knew the club were showing it, aiming for the top and were backing him as much as possible. He also bought Darren Huckerby for a small fee because he saw a potential in him. Didn't work out either but you didn't question the ambition, it was obviously there.

 

The thing is, smaller clubs than us will be spending more than 20m quid, and just right now, we sort of need at least 3 players to get back into the european places.

 

Don't think Bentley would cost 20m like, or he wouldn't have done in January, but he will do if he steps up a level and gets more England caps.

 

 

 

That's all people mean (I think) when they refer to trophy signings though mate; one big signature to pacify the fans, at the expence of the team as a whole. As you say, we need to be looking for more than that, and we need to be spending money similar or greater than those who we aspire to compete with this time. You may disagree, but I think we needed the takeover to ensure we were even in a position to attempt that.

 

Digressing though, I don't want to get into another argument about the board. You're an interesting poster when you look beyond the usernames (irony!) and don't see every opinion as an attack on Shepherd.

 

On Bentley, if we want him then England's failure to qualify for the Euros may do us a huge favour. A good showing there and I reckon Blackburn would definitely hold out for something like £20m. Even though I disagree with you that we can simply pluck their players at will, I think with the right conviction we could get him.