Long Term Strategy

[Guest Flair]

 

there's a level of player we need & have to be aiming at right now to make this "long term strategy" successful both in the long term and NOW

 

seems that people see the two as mutually exclusive, to have the LTS we have to endure 3-5 years of dogshit and buying reserve players from liverpool etc...

 

for me the type of player we need to target this summer are the sagnas & muntaris of this world - players who've appeared on the radar but crucially play for clubs we can sign players from (auxerre/udinese) and who won't consider themselves above us....i know sagna went to arsenal but when he signed for them if it had been us who bid the 7m with no other challengers i reckon he'd have come at that time

 

there must be plenty of players of this level around european football, and i honestly assumed this was the type of player we'd be aiming for...the boy arda was another example of that but it seems gala have priced him out perhaps?  although that's all speculation of course

 

that's what i think about it anyhow, can't see how anyone could realistically expect us to blow 17m on bentley or something this summer 'cause he wouldn't come first and foremost (see above) and because it wouldn't be a sensible use of our resources given our squad size and depth

 

if we continue filling the squad up with frees and 1m reserve players we'll get what we deserve imo

 

 

 

 

ive also mentioned Muntari as the type of player we should be buying - a sizeable fee for a promising/developing player who the big clubs (man utd and juve in his case) are looking at but who haven't yet taken the plunge and signed. Berbatov is another example before he signed for Spurs and the likes of Turan, Pjanic, Cuellar, Montolivo, Zapata, Menez, Inler, Veloso, Romaric are examples knocking around this window. i'm thinking of players that will cost £5m-£15m, a calibre of two underneath the likes of VDV, Benzema or Diego as they will move on to big clubs and only stay put because they cost so much and because there's so few clubs who could buy these talents. though that's not to say if an experienced player comes along who would improve us, like Dunne or Fringes, that we shouldn't buy them.

 

looking at even younger players that the likes of Vetere and Wise are supposedly tracking, it seems we haven't signed many of these, only Spear and even this isn't confirmed. even spurs have brought in 3 16 year olds like Bostock.

 

not sure how the Modric bid fits into our overall transfer activity. it's ok saying we bid for him but for whatever reason we didn't land him. let's face it we can't offer players like that a great deal so we have to go into overdrive when it comes to attracting them here, rolling out keegan, private jet, 24/7 state of alert preparing to fly out anywhere, even if it means offering a bit extra money. i'd rather pay too much for a good team than pay the right amount for an average side. for anyone who disagrees, i'm sure hope the satisfaction of saving a few million over the course of a season compensates for poorer performances on the pitch.

 

the modric bid does suggest we'll make one biggish signing (if we can actually close the deal) but i reckon the rest will be more along the lines of Larsson, Jonas or Guthrie ie £1m-£5m bracket and perhaps not players who you'd assume would walk into our side. not terrible buys by any means but these are the kind of transfers i'd expect a team like Middlesbrough to make, Emnes or Digard for instance.

 

Take a bow son, take a bow. 

 

[Guest Sez]

no wonder we get called the most fickle fan's in the country

 

some ppl still believe we are chasing champions league football

 

we can't attract the players ffs, because we live too far north and can't offer any champions league football

 

and when we DID spend money it almost got us relegated under souness

 

we finished 12th ffs not 5th, so we can't compete with the like's everton for now

 

we need to build a team long term, and get in hard working players that can compete in the premiership and are not injured every other game

 

Complete bullshiet.  

 

What has being north got to do with attarcting players? Then in that case Fulham would be far more attractive than Aston Villa.  12th isn't being anywhere near relegated.  

 

Yeah hard-working players. So the likes of Butt, Smith, Milner are the way forward.  

 

To progress you must buy quality, preferably up and comign quality. Quality only comes at a price and as a result money is needed to be spent. Sure you can get some bargains but running the club like Bolton, is it really the way forward?

 

A lot wrong with this post IMO. For a start, Birmingham isn't north.

[Guest Flair]

no wonder we get called the most fickle fan's in the country

 

some ppl still believe we are chasing champions league football

 

we can't attract the players ffs, because we live too far north and can't offer any champions league football

 

and when we DID spend money it almost got us relegated under souness

 

we finished 12th ffs not 5th, so we can't compete with the like's everton for now

 

we need to build a team long term, and get in hard working players that can compete in the premiership and are not injured every other game

 

Complete bullshiet.  

 

What has being north got to do with attarcting players? Then in that case Fulham would be far more attractive than Aston Villa.  12th isn't being anywhere near relegated.  

 

Yeah hard-working players. So the likes of Butt, Smith, Milner are the way forward.  

 

To progress you must buy quality, preferably up and comign quality. Quality only comes at a price and as a result money is needed to be spent. Sure you can get some bargains but running the club like Bolton, is it really the way forward?

 

A lot wrong with this post IMO. For a start, Birmingham isn't north.

 

Ok how about Liverpool or Man. U? Even the stadium of shiet is more attractive than Fulham which completely defies the logic.  Also if you think about it, us being a large northern city gives us the attractive support, we have soo many passionate fans. If we were another club in London, we would most likely be like Fulham and inverably not be attractive as we would have no fans. So in that respect, the location of the club can work both ways. 

[colinmk]

People need to wise up. The policy of buying big names coming to the end of their career worked for a while but there is a lot more competition now as the other clubs have moved past us. We need to build from the ground up instead of the quick fixes. This policy is the only viable option I can see for the club at this point. In a few years once we have a good nucleus of players then you can start adding the big name players to fill in the gaps and make us hopefully a very formidable team.

[Guest neesy111]

People need to wise up. The policy of buying big names coming to the end of their career worked for a while but there is a lot more competition now as the other clubs have moved past us. We need to build from the ground up instead of the quick fixes. This policy is the only viable option I can see for the club at this point. In a few years once we have a good nucleus of players then you can start adding the big name players to fill in the gaps and make us hopefully a very formidable team.

 

we need to have enough quality to push for the uefa cup spot.  I think that is possible, even with the current squad now top 8-9 is very achievable, especially if we carry the form we had at the end of last season.

[UV]

People need to wise up. The policy of buying big names coming to the end of their career worked for a while but there is a lot more competition now as the other clubs have moved past us. We need to build from the ground up instead of the quick fixes. This policy is the only viable option I can see for the club at this point. In a few years once we have a good nucleus of players then you can start adding the big name players to fill in the gaps and make us hopefully a very formidable team.

 

Remind me when this was again.

[Shearergol]

People need to wise up. The policy of buying big names coming to the end of their career worked for a while but there is a lot more competition now as the other clubs have moved past us. We need to build from the ground up instead of the quick fixes. This policy is the only viable option I can see for the club at this point. In a few years once we have a good nucleus of players then you can start adding the big name players to fill in the gaps and make us hopefully a very formidable team.

 

Remind me when this was again.

 

Kluivert being the best example. It was never a rule though, which is where people fall down in their arguments with NE5.

[madras]

People need to wise up. The policy of buying big names coming to the end of their career worked for a while but there is a lot more competition now as the other clubs have moved past us. We need to build from the ground up instead of the quick fixes. This policy is the only viable option I can see for the club at this point. In a few years once we have a good nucleus of players then you can start adding the big name players to fill in the gaps and make us hopefully a very formidable team.

 

Remind me when this was again.

 

Kluivert being the best example. It was never a rule though, which is where people fall down in their arguments with NE5.

only example really.

[Dave]

People need to wise up. The policy of buying big names coming to the end of their career worked for a while but there is a lot more competition now as the other clubs have moved past us. We need to build from the ground up instead of the quick fixes. This policy is the only viable option I can see for the club at this point. In a few years once we have a good nucleus of players then you can start adding the big name players to fill in the gaps and make us hopefully a very formidable team.

 

Remind me when this was again.

 

Kluivert being the best example. It was never a rule though, which is where people fall down in their arguments with NE5.

 

He doesn't seem to mind using the opposite (we've bought Guthrie, so all signings will be cheap) as an argument tbf.

[UV]

People need to wise up. The policy of buying big names coming to the end of their career worked for a while but there is a lot more competition now as the other clubs have moved past us. We need to build from the ground up instead of the quick fixes. This policy is the only viable option I can see for the club at this point. In a few years once we have a good nucleus of players then you can start adding the big name players to fill in the gaps and make us hopefully a very formidable team.

 

Remind me when this was again.

 

Kluivert being the best example. It was never a rule though, which is where people fall down in their arguments with NE5.

only example really.

and he was on a free. If he were signed today I'm sure it would be lauded as a great move by the club (and rightly so IMO).

[Shearergol]

People need to wise up. The policy of buying big names coming to the end of their career worked for a while but there is a lot more competition now as the other clubs have moved past us. We need to build from the ground up instead of the quick fixes. This policy is the only viable option I can see for the club at this point. In a few years once we have a good nucleus of players then you can start adding the big name players to fill in the gaps and make us hopefully a very formidable team.

 

Remind me when this was again.

 

Kluivert being the best example. It was never a rule though, which is where people fall down in their arguments with NE5.

 

He doesn't seem to mind using the opposite (we've bought Guthrie, so all signings will be cheap) as an argument tbf.

 

 

...which is where he falls down in his arguments.

[Coxaux]

How exactly is Jonas a 'Boro-esque signing?

[Dave]

[NE5]

 

Agreed, although value is dependent on the judgement of the manager when he assesse players

 

 

 

Bollocks. By that "logic", Marcelino, Luque, Boumsong, Viana, Duff and Smith were all good value.

 

neither was your hero.

 

 

[NE5]

 

Agreed, although value is dependent on the judgement of the manager when he assesse players

 

 

 

Bollocks. By that "logic", Marcelino, Luque, Boumsong, Viana, Duff and Smith were all good value.

 

And Tino, heh.

 

you logged on before me 

[NE5]

Overall the long term strategy, of reducing wages will ultimely lead to...

 

Stagnation, relegation.

 

It's not about paying massive wages or penny pinching- it's about VALUE. We absolutely must get that balance right. We've clearly got it wrong in the past, but there's a danger we could go too far the other way.

 

Agreed, although value is dependent on the judgement of the manager when he assesse players, not a sodding stupid consortium who can't persuade players to join the club that the manager would like.

 

 

err NE5 would you care to have a look at the squad robson inherited(1999-2000) and the squad he played for the next season(2000-2001) ? no massive signings etc we built in technique,tactics and teamwork then a full season later, added the,at the time of signing,derided,bellamy ,and robert. the ground work on the pitch had been done....ambition hadn't been ignored through your hero not spending on superstars or were you complaining like an old lady in a wet bus queue then aswell ?

 

At the time, Bellamy and Robert cost quite big fees. Overall, they invested about 40m quid in players over about 3 years to get back into the top 4. The point being of course, that they decided to go for it.

 

And some people were pleased with Bellamy, including me.

 

 

[NE5]

People need to wise up. The policy of buying big names coming to the end of their career worked for a while but there is a lot more competition now as the other clubs have moved past us. We need to build from the ground up instead of the quick fixes. This policy is the only viable option I can see for the club at this point. In a few years once we have a good nucleus of players then you can start adding the big name players to fill in the gaps and make us hopefully a very formidable team.

 

Remind me when this was again.

 

Kluivert being the best example. It was never a rule though, which is where people fall down in their arguments with NE5.

 

He doesn't seem to mind using the opposite (we've bought Guthrie, so all signings will be cheap) as an argument tbf.

 

Except Kluivert is the only example you can name, and pretty much everybody was happy with it too [except me, ironically]

 

don't let this fact get in the way of anyone's opinion though.

 

 

[NE5]

"considering the billionaire owner, the net spend of just about zero last summer and the increased TV income, we should be going out and spending £50m if keegan wants to, but i can't see it."

 

you've just summed up my feelings on the matter entirely - my personal opinion is that a net spend of anything less than 30m is fucking disgrace and an insult to the fans

 

our net spend under MR SHEPHERD NE5 for the 5 seasons under robson was 10 million and that was after qualifying for the champs league and getting to the uefa cup semi finals, not much more than ashley

 

who mentioned shepherd?  not me, don't care about him he's the past mate...the present and future are important

 

wait for me or you to be accused of mentioning him first and turning the thread into the "usual dross" even though as you say neither of us mentioned him.

 

 

[Shearergol]

People need to wise up. The policy of buying big names coming to the end of their career worked for a while but there is a lot more competition now as the other clubs have moved past us. We need to build from the ground up instead of the quick fixes. This policy is the only viable option I can see for the club at this point. In a few years once we have a good nucleus of players then you can start adding the big name players to fill in the gaps and make us hopefully a very formidable team.

 

Remind me when this was again.

 

Kluivert being the best example. It was never a rule though, which is where people fall down in their arguments with NE5.

 

He doesn't seem to mind using the opposite (we've bought Guthrie, so all signings will be cheap) as an argument tbf.

 

Except Kluivert is the only example you can name, and pretty much everybody was happy with it too [except me, ironically]

 

don't let this fact get in the way of anyone's opinion though.

 

 

I wasn't happy with Kluivert either. In fact it was about 70/30 in favour, but plenty of people doubted the signing would be of any benefit.

 

Strangely though, a Kluivert/Bellamy partnership was actually very good; it was only Robson's desire to keep Shearer in the team which made Kluivert a poor signing.

[NE5]

Overall the long term strategy, of reducing wages will ultimely lead to

 

more money to spend on players or we pay less for season

 

that can only be a good thing can it??

 

I hope NE5 goes straight to bed when he gets in from the pub tonight.

 

NE5 should try to consider other people's idea's, not just his

 

NE5 knows best, and NE5 says that following this policy [ie competing at the level of the mediocre clubs] will lead us to be further behind the top clubs.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, NE5 is not paying their exorbitant transfer fees and their wages.

 

 

as a paying customer, I am. And have been since 1964

 

 

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Overall the long term strategy, of reducing wages will ultimely lead to...

 

Stagnation, relegation.

 

It's not about paying massive wages or penny pinching- it's about VALUE. We absolutely must get that balance right. We've clearly got it wrong in the past, but there's a danger we could go too far the other way.

 

Agreed, although value is dependent on the judgement of the manager when he assesse players, not a sodding stupid consortium who can't persuade players to join the club that the manager would like.

 

 

err NE5 would you care to have a look at the squad robson inherited(1999-2000) and the squad he played for the next season(2000-2001) ? no massive signings etc we built in technique,tactics and teamwork then a full season later, added the,at the time of signing,derided,bellamy ,and robert. the ground work on the pitch had been done....ambition hadn't been ignored through your hero not spending on superstars or were you complaining like an old lady in a wet bus queue then aswell ?

 

At the time, Bellamy and Robert cost quite big fees. Overall, they invested about 40m quid in players over about 3 years to get back into the top 4. The point being of course, that they decided to go for it.

 

And some people were pleased with Bellamy, including me.

 

 

 

But when it goes wrong it hamstrings you.

 

Say Duff and Smith (and one signing from each regime so no bias!) are on £60k - not unreasonable? Thats £6m a year effectively thrown down the toilet, or to put it another way £6m unavailable for new signings and contract negotiations.

 

You can only speculate to accumulate so much, without european football we have a limited budget. Add on this toilet money and you can see perhaps why we couldn't go that extra £10-£20k for Aimar if we are looking to bring in another 3 players (for example).

 

If we could get rid fo the deadwood I'm sure we could offer higher wages for players to shoot us up the league - Bobby took a couple of years doing just this before the Bellamy/Robert summer

[Colos Short and Curlies]

People need to wise up. The policy of buying big names coming to the end of their career worked for a while but there is a lot more competition now as the other clubs have moved past us. We need to build from the ground up instead of the quick fixes. This policy is the only viable option I can see for the club at this point. In a few years once we have a good nucleus of players then you can start adding the big name players to fill in the gaps and make us hopefully a very formidable team.

 

Remind me when this was again.

 

Kluivert being the best example. It was never a rule though, which is where people fall down in their arguments with NE5.

 

He doesn't seem to mind using the opposite (we've bought Guthrie, so all signings will be cheap) as an argument tbf.

 

Except Kluivert is the only example you can name, and pretty much everybody was happy with it too [except me, ironically]

 

don't let this fact get in the way of anyone's opinion though.

 

 

I wasn't happy with Kluivert either. In fact it was about 70/30 in favour, but plenty of people doubted the signing would be of any benefit.

 

Strangely though, a Kluivert/Bellamy partnership was actually very good; it was only Robson's desire to keep Shearer in the team which made Kluivert a poor signing.

 

Add Souness to that too.

[NE5]

People need to wise up. The policy of buying big names coming to the end of their career worked for a while but there is a lot more competition now as the other clubs have moved past us. We need to build from the ground up instead of the quick fixes. This policy is the only viable option I can see for the club at this point. In a few years once we have a good nucleus of players then you can start adding the big name players to fill in the gaps and make us hopefully a very formidable team.

 

Remind me when this was again.

 

Kluivert being the best example. It was never a rule though, which is where people fall down in their arguments with NE5.

 

He doesn't seem to mind using the opposite (we've bought Guthrie, so all signings will be cheap) as an argument tbf.

 

 

...which is where he falls down in his arguments.

 

I don't.

 

To repeat, its signs of ambiton that I look for. And desire to get the players that the manager wants the most.

 

 

[NE5]

People need to wise up. The policy of buying big names coming to the end of their career worked for a while but there is a lot more competition now as the other clubs have moved past us. We need to build from the ground up instead of the quick fixes. This policy is the only viable option I can see for the club at this point. In a few years once we have a good nucleus of players then you can start adding the big name players to fill in the gaps and make us hopefully a very formidable team.

 

Remind me when this was again.

 

Kluivert being the best example. It was never a rule though, which is where people fall down in their arguments with NE5.

 

He doesn't seem to mind using the opposite (we've bought Guthrie, so all signings will be cheap) as an argument tbf.

 

Except Kluivert is the only example you can name, and pretty much everybody was happy with it too [except me, ironically]

 

don't let this fact get in the way of anyone's opinion though.

 

 

I wasn't happy with Kluivert either. In fact it was about 70/30 in favour, but plenty of people doubted the signing would be of any benefit.

 

Strangely though, a Kluivert/Bellamy partnership was actually very good; it was only Robson's desire to keep Shearer in the team which made Kluivert a poor signing.

 

I'm not really sure if that is true or fair. Kluivert did very little to earn his place.

 

 

[Shearergol]

People need to wise up. The policy of buying big names coming to the end of their career worked for a while but there is a lot more competition now as the other clubs have moved past us. We need to build from the ground up instead of the quick fixes. This policy is the only viable option I can see for the club at this point. In a few years once we have a good nucleus of players then you can start adding the big name players to fill in the gaps and make us hopefully a very formidable team.

 

Remind me when this was again.

 

Kluivert being the best example. It was never a rule though, which is where people fall down in their arguments with NE5.

 

He doesn't seem to mind using the opposite (we've bought Guthrie, so all signings will be cheap) as an argument tbf.

 

 

...which is where he falls down in his arguments.

 

I don't.

 

To repeat, its signs of ambiton that I look for. And desire to get the players that the manager wants the most.

 

 

 

I've always agreed with you on this point, and I want to see the board show it's hand and show some real intent to move the club forward. However, you can't complain about the signings of players like Guthrie until the transfer window closes. Nobody really knows if Guthrie is backup, potential, or a first teamer, so his signing isn't a sign of us not showing ambition.

 

I'll judge the success of the transfer window when it's over. We've missed out on maybe 4 potential players, which leaves thousands more around the world to look at.