Jonas Gutierrez

[SteveMc]

Am I the only person who remembers just how awful he was in the Prem?

 

I think awful is overstating the point

[quayside]

Am I the only person who remembers just how awful he was in the Prem?

 

Probably not. But for most of the season the club had no stability, no proper management, no direction and no focus and a lot of players who could do better performed like sh1t.

[Colocho]

Really? I still don't rate him at all. Sure he's had a relatively good season in the CHAMPIONSHIP and played well against some of the poorer teams in the league, but what about next season - has he really got it in him to step it up a level. Will he get the better of Ivanovic, Sagna, Johnson, Corluka, Shawcross et al? Even the likes of Paintsil, Hutton, Cuellar and Zabaleta will dominate him unless he seriously steps up his game.

 

Got a feeling we'll all be asking for a new left-winger by January.

[Flip]

I haven't watch every match this season due to not living in the UK but the match that I have seen on telly/internet Jonas has been one of the best on the pitch every single time.

 

Especially when Enrique has played. He tracks back and defends and does a lot more than what he gets credit for. Offensively he is not the most technical player, but you know he will give everything always. I mean he has had 2 players on him every single match for the whole season, and opposition have given him a hard time and yet he has performed better than most players. In the Premiership he might get more space and maybe he might be able to create more, he's had two years now in England, and with the World Cup coming up, i think he might turn out to be the left-winger we all want him to be. But for that to happen we need to get in more solid players, players who help him out like Enrique does.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Really? I still don't rate him at all. Sure he's had a relatively good season in the CHAMPIONSHIP and played well against some of the poorer teams in the league, but what about next season - has he really got it in him to step it up a level. Will he get the better of Ivanovic, Sagna, Johnson, Corluka, Shawcross et al? Even the likes of Paintsil, Hutton, Cuellar and Zabaleta will dominate him unless he seriously steps up his game.

 

Got a feeling we'll all be asking for a new left-winger by January.

 

You could say all of that about Colocinni. Why is there a difference to you?

 

 

Jonas was still one of our better players last season.

[Doug]

Fill your team with competent but stalemate inducing robots who can control the ball and pass crab like around the field and you may scrape by but ultimately not get any real success.

You need players with the flair to get past an opponent to break the stalemate and make things happen. It is the most difficult thing in football that not all can do.

Jonas can do it with consumate ease. Critisism of entertaining and gifted players like him is beyond me. He is a gem to be cherished and encouraged. A couple more like him would not go amiss.

 

 

[SteveMc]

The Sunday Ronnie says he's got tendonitis in his knee....

[Decky]

Am I the only person who remembers just how awful he was in the Prem?

 

Nope, but im hoping he is more settled here now and more used to the English way of playing.

[Colocho]

Really? I still don't rate him at all. Sure he's had a relatively good season in the CHAMPIONSHIP and played well against some of the poorer teams in the league, but what about next season - has he really got it in him to step it up a level. Will he get the better of Ivanovic, Sagna, Johnson, Corluka, Shawcross et al? Even the likes of Paintsil, Hutton, Cuellar and Zabaleta will dominate him unless he seriously steps up his game.

 

Got a feeling we'll all be asking for a new left-winger by January.

 

You could say all of that about Colocinni. Why is there a difference to you?

 

 

Jonas was still one of our better players last season.

 

There isn't a difference. I am just as, if not more concerned about the thought of Colo at CB next season.

[Teasy]

Am I the only person who remembers just how awful he was in the Prem?

 

I think awful is overstating the point

 

Definitely, the way he's talking you'd think he was one of our worst players last season or something   I'm sure he could have done better in a side that wasn't totally devoid of any confidence.  Especially if he'd had a player on the opposite side of the pitch to take some of the markers away from him, like Routledge has this season.

[Ronaldo]

Jonas rarely looked a genuine threat last season, he did well with loads of space at Old Trafford and predictably, people went nuts over him.

[Cajun]

Jonas rarely looked a genuine threat last season, he did well with loads of space at Old Trafford and predictably, people went nuts over him.

 

If that performance had come six months into the season I think people would have been annoyed that he yet again ran with the ball well but didn't produce an end product...

[Teasy]

Nobody looked a geniune threat on a regular basis last season and he did well more then just at Old Trafford.  He had plenty of bad games but also some good ones in a side full of under performing players.  As usual some seem not to realise that even when he fails to produce an end product he's still giving us an outlet and taking pressure off the rest of the side with his running.

[Frazzle]

That performance wouldn't have taken place halfway through the season.  The reason Jonas played so well against Man U was because he was playing under a good manager.

[Ronaldo]

Our biggest problem last season was creating chances, he's culpable.

[Teasy]

Our biggest problem last season was creating chances, he's culpable.

 

Our biggest problem was everything, conceding too many and scoring too few and not only because we didn't create either (the likes of Owen missed some excellent chances).  Of course creating chances was a problem and he's one of the players to blame for that.  But other players in the same side were equally to blame for that and did fuck all else for the side while they were at it.

[Cajun]

Nobody looked a geniune threat on a regular basis last season and he did well more then just at Old Trafford.  He had plenty of bad games but also some good ones in a side full of under performing players.  As usual some seem not to realise that even when he fails to produce an end product he's still giving us an outlet and taking pressure off the rest of the side with his running.

 

Swings and roundabouts, he would take pressure off the defence but then put it straight back on them when he ran into the defender 10 yards further down the pitch.

 

A slightly slower version of the long ball if you were

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

Our biggest problem last season was creating chances, he's culpable.

 

Our biggest problem was everything, conceding too many and scoring too few and not just because we didn't create either.  Of course creating chances was a problem and he's one of the players to blame for that.  But other players in the same side were equally to blame for that and did f*** all else for the side while they were at it.

Jonas was definitely partially at fault, but when you look at who was playing in midfield and on the other flank, I don't think the share of the blame is "equal"

[Ronaldo]

I've personally been a touch dissapointed with him this season, his stats compared with Routledge's makes for fairly damning reading, especially considering where Wayne was till Jan.

[Teasy]

Nobody looked a geniune threat on a regular basis last season and he did well more then just at Old Trafford.  He had plenty of bad games but also some good ones in a side full of under performing players.  As usual some seem not to realise that even when he fails to produce an end product he's still giving us an outlet and taking pressure off the rest of the side with his running.

 

Swings and roundabouts, he would take pressure off the defence but then put it straight back on them when he ran into the defender 10 yards further down the pitch.

 

A slightly slower version of the long ball if you were

 

Sometimes he would, often he would run it away and win a freekick, or a corner or give it to a teammate in midfield so they could give it away for him.  What exactly could he do in a team with no movement or confidence?  Take the entire team on and win?  He's only a good player, not Maradona

[Cajun]

Nobody looked a geniune threat on a regular basis last season and he did well more then just at Old Trafford.  He had plenty of bad games but also some good ones in a side full of under performing players.  As usual some seem not to realise that even when he fails to produce an end product he's still giving us an outlet and taking pressure off the rest of the side with his running.

 

Swings and roundabouts, he would take pressure off the defence but then put it straight back on them when he ran into the defender 10 yards further down the pitch.

 

A slightly slower version of the long ball if you were

 

Sometimes he would, often he would run it away and win a freekick, or a corner or give it to a teammate in midfield so they could give it away for him.  What exactly could he do in a team with no movement or confidence?  Take the entire team on and win?

 

He certainly tried 

 

 

[tmonkey]

Jonas was far from s*** in our relegation season. He had the flaw of awful end product, but that alone surely can't define his performances, otherwise you're ignoring the rest of the time when he was the only outfield player actually doing anything. He was frequently driving the team forward, maintaining possession, passing it to teammates, winning free kicks and corners, all in a team full of players who either couldn't control/pass the ball (Butt, Martins, Ameobi), or just hid for 90 minutes (Nolan, Duff, Owen). He was essentially the closest thing to a playmaker we had in that team, someone who did nothing in the final third himself but contributed a significant amount in the middle of the pitch.

 

He was also our best player on a number of occassions when we faced the bigger teams. The Old Trafford performance wasn't entirely a one off - iirc he performed well against Arsenal at the Emirates too (down the right wing), but it's not remembered much or was overlooked because it was a 3-0 defeat or something along those lines, hence his efforts were meaningless. Similarly there were other good performances against top end teams, and that's down to him maintaining possession and beating a player or two when in tight situations. Irrespective of what came at the end of it, against a top team those aren't easy things to do, and whilst the rest of our players were treating the ball like hot coal because they lacked any ability to do anything else, he was single handedly driving the team forward and winning free kicks.

 

I'm expecting him to be the same next as he was the last time he was in the Premiership. If we're getting creativity and end product from other players, particularly the opposite flank, then he'll be very useful (similar to that brief spell when we had Zog on the other wing, prior to Kinnear shitting all over that). If there's f*** all coming from the rest of the team and we're looking toothless/clueless every game, then he'll be of little use, and will get more stick than others because of his poor end product/balance when having to cross or shoot.

 

Would like to add however that imo he often doesn't put half the effort in that alot of people say he does. He's a gangly player so jogging back to help is easy, but quite often when we have the ball you see him standing there or walking when he should be at least jogging forwards and making an effort to create space for the team. In an ideal world, we'd have someone challenging him for a first team sport just to make sure he genuinely does put the effort in to keep his place in the team - similar to the effort he puts in for Argentina.

[DubblyDubblyDubbly]

He's got a fantastic work ethic.. but so has Kuyt... aka shite. He's always an option to relieve pressure 'cos he'll receive the ball and run with it. However, his creativity and finishing is still very questionable. Given the current midfield however, he's  first name on the sheet. He could do very well in a  team with good  players.. which of course we  don't have. Fingers crossed he steps up to the plate so to speak. He'll certainly be a novelty in the Premiership, despite most of them already having seen him a couple of times.

Give me Robert everytime... lazy French cnut, but gave us spectacular goals and assists.

[Guest]

I've personally been a touch dissapointed with him this season, his stats compared with Routledge's makes for fairly damning reading, especially considering where Wayne was till Jan.

 

You can use stats to prove anything though. 2003-4 season, Nolan 9 goals and 2 assists, Rooney 9 goals and 3 assists. Rooney went on to star for England that summer and earned a big-money move.

[Ronaldo]

2003.