Shepherd Legacy

[Mick]

 

terrifying ?

 

Do you think the clubs current predicament is also terrifying ? How terrifying ?

 

I can understand that people like you, used to supporting a club trying to be progressive and competing at the top end, are terrified.

 

But me ? You think I'm terrified ?

 

I'm not half so terrified [what a grand attention seeking word] as when the club couldn't find a buyer for 2.5m quid, and had one foot in the 3rd division.

 

I'm also a lot more "terrified" at the clubs current predicament in comparison to when the club  disgracefully had to resort to qualify for europe via the intertoto, and also sufferered the utter humiliation of being booed for only finishing 5th in the premiership.

 

Of course, you witness tonights attendance and apathy, and the lowest crowd for any league or cup game since, eer.. before the Halls and Shepherd took over the club, and also.....eeer........took it forward from a situation whereby the crowd and apathy of tonight was pretty much the normal and occured every Saturday afternoon league game for years, in fact decades apart from the odd blip where the club actually achieved a mid table position in the old 1st division, which is now the premiership for the younger lads.

 

Also of course, people like mick [and he said this ] have said that tonights crowd and general apathy, which was the norm for years and years, is "the same as" that of the last 15 years.

 

You couldnt' make it up. The surprising thing is that people like you actually believe this to be true. Instead of listening to people who were there.

 

There has been a lot more "terrifying" events at this club than this son ........ believe me.

 

 

 

The bit in bold, liar.

 

What I have said is that when our crowds were low they were still some of the best in the Country.

[afar]

FFS can we not just let this thread die ?

[Mick]

 

Just a reminder for those incapable of following complex arguments what the highly experienced and qualified accountant who reviewed the accounts thinks about this question.

 

Given SP60'sH's comments (mate you really need a new name!), dont think anyone has been floored at all in this debate. I think his "professional" opinion is very clear, backs what i thought at the time and does not support the doomsday merchants.

 

Would season ticket sales not balance out?  Would you not lose some season ticket sales for the coming season but gain those sales from the previous year?

 

I think that you would but was this set of accounts not for 11 months, instead of the normal 12?  What difference would this have on the accounts?

[ChezGiven]

FFS can we not just let this thread die ?

 

Dont be ridiculous.

[afar]

FFS can we not just let this thread die ?

 

Dont be ridiculous.

 

Yeah unfortunately you're right, it's just every time I log on it's at the top of the page, just can't resist the urge to click on it.

[Consortium of one]

Ok, I’ve had a quick look at the accounts….

 

Re the season ticket money being received pre or post the accounts date – I think it’s a bit of both! The deferred income (excluding capital grants – government cash) (cash received in advance in effect) is £25 million, of which £10 million is sponsorship money (2 years of £5m each) if we believe that 100% of the money was received up front – this would also account for the £5m fall from 2006.

 

There is also a little bit of bond and corporate money in there – probably only a million or so, therefore we will ignore it, leaving c. £15 million season ticket money. Lets assume an average season ticket price of £400, with 48,000 tickets sold = £19 million.

 

So either some of the season ticket money had been received by the end of June or the club had not received any money for the final 2 years of the Northern Rock deal. Based on the dot cock numbers I think the average ticket price used may be a bit low, as it assumes an even number of child and adult tickets. It would be fair to assume that half of the season ticket money had not been received – There would also be another £3 million ticket money to be received during the year for general sale tickets and away fans (4,000 tickets at £35 each for 19 games). I have taken no cup games into account here.

 

Re the going concern, I was correct in my assumption that the auditors make no comment on this – although it is implied that they agree with Chris Mort’s comments in the director’s report by stating in their opinion that the report is accurate.

 

Basically the club does have net liabilities – and did so in the previous year as well. Eventually the club would have become insolvent if they continued to make losses, but this was not necessarily imminent!

 

Chris Mort makes reference on the cash injection (£75 million) from SJP Holdings making the club a ‘going concern’ (basically the club will be solvent for a period of more than 12 months). However from this only £45m (!) was only needed to ensure this as the change in ownership resulted in £45 million of loans originally due over a period of 11 years becoming due in 60 days. So if Ashley hadn’t bought the club this would not have occurred and the cash injection would not have been needed. The remainder of the injection was at Mikes discretion - he did not need to do this to keep the club afloat.

 

So, in summary the club was not about to go into administration last summer if we had not been bought out! On the other hand there is no doubting that the accounts will look a lot better this year.

 

The other interesting thing was the £3 million spent on refinancing projects which were aborted due to the takeover. This is a lot of money to be spent on this type of thing unless it was pretty much secured (imo of course). I would guess that it was to do with the casino and hotels which were mooted by Fred – and maybe he did have the outside finance in place which he claimed.

 

I know it’s a bit of a ramble, but if anyone wants me to clarify any specific point please shout

 

 

Just a reminder for those incapable of following complex arguments what the highly experienced and qualified accountant who reviewed the accounts thinks about this question.

 

Given SP60'sH's comments (mate you really need a new name!), dont think anyone has been floored at all in this debate. I think his "professional" opinion is very clear, backs what i thought at the time and does not support the doomsday merchants.

 

With all due respect, SP60sH did say that he would have to look into the cash flow issue which is a critical part of the equation.  I'm not sure how the wage bill is paid: weekly, bi weekly, monthly?  Staff payroll, maintenance costs and fixed expenses all have to be met on a consistent basis.  That the club was running with a net liability doesn't appear to be in debate.  Any firm can do that and survive, obviously.  What is in question, at least for me, (and strictly out of curiousity's sake as I have no agenda.), is if the club had the necessary cash flow to meet it's current and longer term obligations.  Usually you don't look for help or look to sell until you see that you don't have the cash flow to meet your obligations.

[madras]

Ok, I’ve had a quick look at the accounts….

 

Re the season ticket money being received pre or post the accounts date – I think it’s a bit of both! The deferred income (excluding capital grants – government cash) (cash received in advance in effect) is £25 million, of which £10 million is sponsorship money (2 years of £5m each) if we believe that 100% of the money was received up front – this would also account for the £5m fall from 2006.

 

There is also a little bit of bond and corporate money in there – probably only a million or so, therefore we will ignore it, leaving c. £15 million season ticket money. Lets assume an average season ticket price of £400, with 48,000 tickets sold = £19 million.

 

So either some of the season ticket money had been received by the end of June or the club had not received any money for the final 2 years of the Northern Rock deal. Based on the dot cock numbers I think the average ticket price used may be a bit low, as it assumes an even number of child and adult tickets. It would be fair to assume that half of the season ticket money had not been received – There would also be another £3 million ticket money to be received during the year for general sale tickets and away fans (4,000 tickets at £35 each for 19 games). I have taken no cup games into account here.

 

Re the going concern, I was correct in my assumption that the auditors make no comment on this – although it is implied that they agree with Chris Mort’s comments in the director’s report by stating in their opinion that the report is accurate.

 

Basically the club does have net liabilities – and did so in the previous year as well. Eventually the club would have become insolvent if they continued to make losses, but this was not necessarily imminent!

 

Chris Mort makes reference on the cash injection (£75 million) from SJP Holdings making the club a ‘going concern’ (basically the club will be solvent for a period of more than 12 months). However from this only £45m (!) was only needed to ensure this as the change in ownership resulted in £45 million of loans originally due over a period of 11 years becoming due in 60 days. So if Ashley hadn’t bought the club this would not have occurred and the cash injection would not have been needed. The remainder of the injection was at Mikes discretion - he did not need to do this to keep the club afloat.

 

So, in summary the club was not about to go into administration last summer if we had not been bought out! On the other hand there is no doubting that the accounts will look a lot better this year.

 

The other interesting thing was the £3 million spent on refinancing projects which were aborted due to the takeover. This is a lot of money to be spent on this type of thing unless it was pretty much secured (imo of course). I would guess that it was to do with the casino and hotels which were mooted by Fred – and maybe he did have the outside finance in place which he claimed.

 

I know it’s a bit of a ramble, but if anyone wants me to clarify any specific point please shout

 

 

Just a reminder for those incapable of following complex arguments what the highly experienced and qualified accountant who reviewed the accounts thinks about this question.

 

Given SP60'sH's comments (mate you really need a new name!), dont think anyone has been floored at all in this debate. I think his "professional" opinion is very clear, backs what i thought at the time and does not support the doomsday merchants.

 

With all due respect, SP60sH did say that he would have to look into the cash flow issue which is a critical part of the equation.  I'm not sure how the wage bill is paid: weekly, bi weekly, monthly?  Staff payroll, maintenance costs and fixed expenses all have to be met on a consistent basis.  That the club was running with a net liability doesn't appear to be in debate.  Any firm can do that and survive, obviously.  What is in question, at least for me, (and strictly out of curiousity's sake as I have no agenda.), is if the club had the necessary cash flow to meet it's current and longer term obligations.  Usually you don't look for help or look to sell until you see that you don't have the cash flow to meet your obligations.

i think most didn't think it was imminent but it was heasding that way.

[NE5]

 

terrifying ?

 

Do you think the clubs current predicament is also terrifying ? How terrifying ?

 

I can understand that people like you, used to supporting a club trying to be progressive and competing at the top end, are terrified.

 

But me ? You think I'm terrified ?

 

I'm not half so terrified [what a grand attention seeking word] as when the club couldn't find a buyer for 2.5m quid, and had one foot in the 3rd division.

 

I'm also a lot more "terrified" at the clubs current predicament in comparison to when the club  disgracefully had to resort to qualify for europe via the intertoto, and also sufferered the utter humiliation of being booed for only finishing 5th in the premiership.

 

Of course, you witness tonights attendance and apathy, and the lowest crowd for any league or cup game since, eer.. before the Halls and Shepherd took over the club, and also.....eeer........took it forward from a situation whereby the crowd and apathy of tonight was pretty much the normal and occured every Saturday afternoon league game for years, in fact decades apart from the odd blip where the club actually achieved a mid table position in the old 1st division, which is now the premiership for the younger lads.

 

Also of course, people like mick [and he said this ] have said that tonights crowd and general apathy, which was the norm for years and years, is "the same as" that of the last 15 years.

 

You couldnt' make it up. The surprising thing is that people like you actually believe this to be true. Instead of listening to people who were there.

 

There has been a lot more "terrifying" events at this club than this son ........ believe me.

 

 

 

The bit in bold, liar.

 

What I have said is that when our crowds were low they were still some of the best in the Country.

 

so how come we spent years in the 2nd division, selling our best players, and getting absolutely nowhere ?

 

You know damn fine that your wish that Shepherd goes has rebounded on you big style. As I always told you, replacing with better would be difficult. Your soopa mike that you gushed on about in cringeworthy style, see my sig, has been found to be a complete disaster. The crowd last night and the apathy is right back to what we had years of pre-1992 until the Halls and Shepherd found the club and proceeded to give the club its best period in 50 years by miles. And to your shame, you haven't got the balls to admit it.

 

 

[Guest elbee909]

Everything is all Mick's fault, to be honest.

[NE5]

You're a liar.

 

You wrote a piece in the mag in 1998, around the time of the FA Cup Final, whinging on about dividends etc. I quoted this once before.

 

Absolutely I did say that in 1998. But I also criticised Keegan for selling Andy Cole. It didn't mean I thought Keegan was a bad manager, it was just that one part of his management was something I didn't agree with. And there was no "etc". I just felt it was wrong for money to be taken out of the club that way. If I'd known ten years later that they would have given away £32m I would have been more angry than I was. I would be equally as angry if I found that Ashley had taken out £4m this summer, whereas I guess you wouldn't mind?

 

...... and also harped on about your moronic support of that cretin Adam Crozier and how he would be the "ideal" chairman of the club.

 

I suggested that Crozier, someone who may take a long term view, was the sort of person that could make an excellent club chairman. By the time you had spun it round in your head a few times you seemed convinced it was my answer to everything. This twisting is what turns so many off your arguments. It is why the nuggets of common sense, and vast club knowledge, you come out with so often get ignored.

 

I have ALWAYS said, and said it often, that the Halls and Shepherd left the club miles better than how they found it. If you weren't so obsessed with reading your balance sheets, and concentrating on the football which happens to be the industry that we are in, you would have seen it.

 

The fact that you have disappeared for all this time, and re-appeared talking yet again about nothing but finance should tell its own story.

 

I disappeared because I post on other boards. I returned because Shepherd had put himself back in the spotlight and claimed that he left the club in a good shape. I just wished to explain to those that may not have known that Shepherd left the club losing £600,000 every week, and with debts of £70m. I feel that his definition of "good shape" is different from that of many others.

I have no problem with him extolling the virtues of the team in 2003, but it was the club in 2007 he was handing over. 13th in the league, 5 points above relegation, huge debts, huge wages for under-performing players, annual management changes. That was what he passed on to his successor. If he had left in 2003 then his legacy would have been excellent. He didn't.

Was Roeder's legacy the first few games, the middle games or the rubbish at the end?

 

 

By the way, you have constantly whinged on about the club "doing a Leeds", through overspending. Well, the club is now heading the way of Leeds, and its for the opposite reason to your claims. Its heading that way because of underinvestment on players. Even you should find this slightly ironic. I'm sure a smart lad like you will recognise the irony of this..............

 

NO !! It is heading the way of Leeds precisely because it over spent, just the way Leeds did. Just as Leeds overspent sure of their own long term CL place, and then fell apart, so did Shepherd. He set out to pay CL wages to players when we were struggling to get us into the Intertoto. The only reason his buy buy buy policy stopped was because the club had run out of money. He couldn't spend £20m on a new player because there just wasn't £20m to be had. No one to borrow from, no sponsorship money, nothing. I really don't know how you expect any football team, that doesn't have an owner that puts in his own money, can just keep spending and spending at £9m per year more than they earn. It just doesn't work. Leeds found this out, and Shepherd had just hit the same wall.

 

You're clueless.

 

I bow to your greater knowledge and experience of such things

 

And you have one hell of a chip on your shoulder, just because the ex board refused you a say in the running of the football club, which is a strange demand to put it mildly.

 

I apologise to others for praising you earlier. You made this up, repeated as many times as you could, and now believe it to be true. As someone once said 'the plural of "lie" is not "fact".

 

...... such is your apparent view that the "business plan" and the balance sheet come first.

 

This isn't fantasy football. Or maybe it should be. In fantasy football they give you a budget and you have to stick to it. What Shepherd did was just spend £9m a year more than he had, every year. He completely ignored the real world and lived the dream. I appreciate you too wish to live the dream, and that having a few years of fun was fantastic. It is now being paid for by us all. 

 

You really couldn't make this up. Someone else who has learned absolutely nothing from the events of the last 2 weeks.

 

I have, have you ?

 

 

Unsurprisingly - NE5 being completely floored again. What a condescending idiot - worse still being patronising for the wrong facts and lies !!

 

I'm not really very pleased that you too have got what you wished for, heading downwards like Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday, and all because the club has stopped investing in players and backing their managers. We will see what the resultant failure on the pitch and supporter apathy does to the balance books.

 

 

[NE5]

You're a liar.

 

You wrote a piece in the mag in 1998, around the time of the FA Cup Final, whinging on about dividends etc. I quoted this once before.

 

Absolutely I did say that in 1998. But I also criticised Keegan for selling Andy Cole. It didn't mean I thought Keegan was a bad manager, it was just that one part of his management was something I didn't agree with. And there was no "etc". I just felt it was wrong for money to be taken out of the club that way. If I'd known ten years later that they would have given away £32m I would have been more angry than I was. I would be equally as angry if I found that Ashley had taken out £4m this summer, whereas I guess you wouldn't mind?

 

...... and also harped on about your moronic support of that cretin Adam Crozier and how he would be the "ideal" chairman of the club.

 

I suggested that Crozier, someone who may take a long term view, was the sort of person that could make an excellent club chairman. By the time you had spun it round in your head a few times you seemed convinced it was my answer to everything. This twisting is what turns so many off your arguments. It is why the nuggets of common sense, and vast club knowledge, you come out with so often get ignored.

 

I have ALWAYS said, and said it often, that the Halls and Shepherd left the club miles better than how they found it. If you weren't so obsessed with reading your balance sheets, and concentrating on the football which happens to be the industry that we are in, you would have seen it.

 

The fact that you have disappeared for all this time, and re-appeared talking yet again about nothing but finance should tell its own story.

 

I disappeared because I post on other boards. I returned because Shepherd had put himself back in the spotlight and claimed that he left the club in a good shape. I just wished to explain to those that may not have known that Shepherd left the club losing £600,000 every week, and with debts of £70m. I feel that his definition of "good shape" is different from that of many others.

I have no problem with him extolling the virtues of the team in 2003, but it was the club in 2007 he was handing over. 13th in the league, 5 points above relegation, huge debts, huge wages for under-performing players, annual management changes. That was what he passed on to his successor. If he had left in 2003 then his legacy would have been excellent. He didn't.

Was Roeder's legacy the first few games, the middle games or the rubbish at the end?

 

 

By the way, you have constantly whinged on about the club "doing a Leeds", through overspending. Well, the club is now heading the way of Leeds, and its for the opposite reason to your claims. Its heading that way because of underinvestment on players. Even you should find this slightly ironic. I'm sure a smart lad like you will recognise the irony of this..............

 

NO !! It is heading the way of Leeds precisely because it over spent, just the way Leeds did. Just as Leeds overspent sure of their own long term CL place, and then fell apart, so did Shepherd. He set out to pay CL wages to players when we were struggling to get us into the Intertoto. The only reason his buy buy buy policy stopped was because the club had run out of money. He couldn't spend £20m on a new player because there just wasn't £20m to be had. No one to borrow from, no sponsorship money, nothing. I really don't know how you expect any football team, that doesn't have an owner that puts in his own money, can just keep spending and spending at £9m per year more than they earn. It just doesn't work. Leeds found this out, and Shepherd had just hit the same wall.

 

You're clueless.

 

I bow to your greater knowledge and experience of such things

 

And you have one hell of a chip on your shoulder, just because the ex board refused you a say in the running of the football club, which is a strange demand to put it mildly.

 

I apologise to others for praising you earlier. You made this up, repeated as many times as you could, and now believe it to be true. As someone once said 'the plural of "lie" is not "fact".

 

...... such is your apparent view that the "business plan" and the balance sheet come first.

 

This isn't fantasy football. Or maybe it should be. In fantasy football they give you a budget and you have to stick to it. What Shepherd did was just spend £9m a year more than he had, every year. He completely ignored the real world and lived the dream. I appreciate you too wish to live the dream, and that having a few years of fun was fantastic. It is now being paid for by us all. 

 

You really couldn't make this up. Someone else who has learned absolutely nothing from the events of the last 2 weeks.

 

I have, have you ?

 

 

Unsurprisingly - NE5 being completely floored again. What a condescending idiot - worse still being patronising for the wrong facts and lies !!

 

Aye but we qualified for Europe more times than any team bar 4, so that makes it alright. The fact that its pretty safe to say we wouldnt of qualified for CL again under Shepherd and therefore get back on financial track is irrelevant.

 

Keep up.

 

I bet - as you said last year ie around the time of the January transfer window, before and after - that you too are pleased we didn't waste any money above what we took in on transfers, in the summer.

 

 

[NE5]

Ok, I’ve had a quick look at the accounts….

 

Re the season ticket money being received pre or post the accounts date – I think it’s a bit of both! The deferred income (excluding capital grants – government cash) (cash received in advance in effect) is £25 million, of which £10 million is sponsorship money (2 years of £5m each) if we believe that 100% of the money was received up front – this would also account for the £5m fall from 2006.

 

There is also a little bit of bond and corporate money in there – probably only a million or so, therefore we will ignore it, leaving c. £15 million season ticket money. Lets assume an average season ticket price of £400, with 48,000 tickets sold = £19 million.

 

So either some of the season ticket money had been received by the end of June or the club had not received any money for the final 2 years of the Northern Rock deal. Based on the dot cock numbers I think the average ticket price used may be a bit low, as it assumes an even number of child and adult tickets. It would be fair to assume that half of the season ticket money had not been received – There would also be another £3 million ticket money to be received during the year for general sale tickets and away fans (4,000 tickets at £35 each for 19 games). I have taken no cup games into account here.

 

Re the going concern, I was correct in my assumption that the auditors make no comment on this – although it is implied that they agree with Chris Mort’s comments in the director’s report by stating in their opinion that the report is accurate.

 

Basically the club does have net liabilities – and did so in the previous year as well. Eventually the club would have become insolvent if they continued to make losses, but this was not necessarily imminent!

 

Chris Mort makes reference on the cash injection (£75 million) from SJP Holdings making the club a ‘going concern’ (basically the club will be solvent for a period of more than 12 months). However from this only £45m (!) was only needed to ensure this as the change in ownership resulted in £45 million of loans originally due over a period of 11 years becoming due in 60 days. So if Ashley hadn’t bought the club this would not have occurred and the cash injection would not have been needed. The remainder of the injection was at Mikes discretion - he did not need to do this to keep the club afloat.

 

So, in summary the club was not about to go into administration last summer if we had not been bought out! On the other hand there is no doubting that the accounts will look a lot better this year.

 

The other interesting thing was the £3 million spent on refinancing projects which were aborted due to the takeover. This is a lot of money to be spent on this type of thing unless it was pretty much secured (imo of course). I would guess that it was to do with the casino and hotels which were mooted by Fred – and maybe he did have the outside finance in place which he claimed.

 

I know it’s a bit of a ramble, but if anyone wants me to clarify any specific point please shout

 

 

Just a reminder for those incapable of following complex arguments what the highly experienced and qualified accountant who reviewed the accounts thinks about this question.

 

Given SP60'sH's comments (mate you really need a new name!), dont think anyone has been floored at all in this debate. I think his "professional" opinion is very clear, backs what i thought at the time and does not support the doomsday merchants.

 

indeed. Its a refreshing change to see someone telling us the positives and the negatives, without having a personality driven agenda.

 

 

 

 

[Guest elbee909]

I'm not really very pleased that you too have got what you wished for, heading downwards like Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday, and all because the club has stopped investing in players and backing their managers. We will see what the resultant failure on the pitch and supporter apathy does to the balance books.

 

When will these mad fools learn to wish for good things?  If only we invested in players in the way Leeds did, that would guarantee us safety.

[Shearergol]

I'm not really very pleased that you too have got what you wished for, heading downwards like Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday, and all because the club has stopped investing in players and backing their managers. We will see what the resultant failure on the pitch and supporter apathy does to the balance books.

 

When will these mad fools learn to wish for good things?  If only we invested in players in the way Leeds did, that would guarantee us safety.

 

Do you want to point out to him that we just broke our transfer record for a defender?

[NE5]

I'm not really very pleased that you too have got what you wished for, heading downwards like Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday, and all because the club has stopped investing in players and backing their managers. We will see what the resultant failure on the pitch and supporter apathy does to the balance books.

 

When will these mad fools learn to wish for good things?  If only we invested in players in the way Leeds did, that would guarantee us safety.

 

this is where you don't listen.........sorry to sound patronising again elbee..........but it HAS been said before. It doesn't guarantee anything - particularly as others are doing it - but it helps and you won't succeed if you don't.

 

Why not take your lead from the successful clubs that show you how its done, just accept that to have a chance you have to follow their role model ? The best time we've all had in the last 50 years was when we spent money to compete with them ? Whats the problem with you that you can't see this and accept it ?

 

 

[NE5]

I'm not really very pleased that you too have got what you wished for, heading downwards like Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday, and all because the club has stopped investing in players and backing their managers. We will see what the resultant failure on the pitch and supporter apathy does to the balance books.

 

When will these mad fools learn to wish for good things?  If only we invested in players in the way Leeds did, that would guarantee us safety.

 

Do you want to point out to him that we just broke our transfer record for a defender?

 

no big deal. Keegan did it twice the last time, and Bobby Robson did it too. Didn't stop the club from buying other players though, and they didn't make the manager sell to buy to do it.

 

Big difference. This has been said before too.

 

You're not seriously going to defend this summers transfer activity [lack of] I hope.

 

 

[Shearergol]

I'm not really very pleased that you too have got what you wished for, heading downwards like Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday, and all because the club has stopped investing in players and backing their managers. We will see what the resultant failure on the pitch and supporter apathy does to the balance books.

 

When will these mad fools learn to wish for good things?  If only we invested in players in the way Leeds did, that would guarantee us safety.

 

Do you want to point out to him that we just broke our transfer record for a defender?

 

no big deal. Keegan did it twice the last time, and Bobby Robson did it too. Didn't stop the club from buying other players though, and they didn't make the manager sell to buy to do it.

 

Big difference. This has been said before too.

 

You're not seriously going to defend this summers transfer activity [lack of] I hope.

 

 

 

Nope, I'm not. But I blame Keegan as much as I blame the club.

 

I've been frustrated by our transfer activity for the last few years to be honest. I don't think either board was/is very good.

[Mick]

 

so how come we spent years in the 2nd division, selling our best players, and getting absolutely nowhere ?

 

You know damn fine that your wish that Shepherd goes has rebounded on you big style. As I always told you, replacing with better would be difficult. Your soopa mike that you gushed on about in cringeworthy style, see my sig, has been found to be a complete disaster. The crowd last night and the apathy is right back to what we had years of pre-1992 until the Halls and Shepherd found the club and proceeded to give the club its best period in 50 years by miles. And to your shame, you haven't got the balls to admit it.

 

 

 

[Guest elbee909]

I'm not really very pleased that you too have got what you wished for, heading downwards like Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday, and all because the club has stopped investing in players and backing their managers. We will see what the resultant failure on the pitch and supporter apathy does to the balance books.

 

When will these mad fools learn to wish for good things?  If only we invested in players in the way Leeds did, that would guarantee us safety.

 

this is where you don't listen.........sorry to sound patronising again elbee..........but it HAS been said before. It doesn't guarantee anything - particularly as others are doing it - but it helps and you won't succeed if you don't.

 

Why not take your lead from the successful clubs that show you how its done, just accept that to have a chance you have to follow their role model ? The best time we've all had in the last 50 years was when we spent money to compete with them ? Whats the problem with you that you can't see this and accept it?

 

 

Oh, I do completely accept that one should always be aiming to outreach one's grasp.  I'm just saying stupid things to match the stupid shit you're spouting such as "you too have got what you wished for, heading downwards like Leeds".  No-one's wished for that.  Still, keep on keeping on.

 

The best times we've had in the last 50 years coincided with decent stints of stable, quality management.  Unless you're counting the 50million give to Souness as the best of times.  The last lot fucked up re. not letting a _decent_ manager do their thing, and so have this lot.  The money helps but the last lot didn't bankroll Bobby Robson for a fair old while and he still steadied the ship. 

 

You're having a go at people still, for committing the heinous crime of optimism after about four years of steady decline which you seem to have forgotten all about, conveniently.  Yet no-one here CHOSE who was going to buy NUFC.  You seem to think various people on here actually wanted this all to happen.

[macbeth]

You're having a go at people still, for committing the heinous crime of optimism after about four years of steady decline which you seem to have forgotten all about, conveniently.  Yet no-one here CHOSE who was going to buy NUFC.  You seem to think various people on here actually wanted this all to happen.

 

if you don't back Shepherd you must therefore back McKeag and Ashley

 

if you don't like Halls and Shepherds taking out over £12m in wages from the club, it proves you must prefer McKeag and Ashley

 

if you don't want the club to lose £33m in a year it proves you want us to get relegated two divisions

 

you'll learn 

 

[NE5]

 

so how come we spent years in the 2nd division, selling our best players, and getting absolutely nowhere ?

 

You know damn fine that your wish that Shepherd goes has rebounded on you big style. As I always told you, replacing with better would be difficult. Your soopa mike that you gushed on about in cringeworthy style, see my sig, has been found to be a complete disaster. The crowd last night and the apathy is right back to what we had years of pre-1992 until the Halls and Shepherd found the club and proceeded to give the club its best period in 50 years by miles. And to your shame, you haven't got the balls to admit it.

 

 

 

 

a completely expected lack of response.

 

No balls then ?

 

I have to presume you got what you wished for, and are quite happy the good old days are back in your eyes.

 

 

[macbeth]

it's too easy sometimes 

[NE5]

I'm not really very pleased that you too have got what you wished for, heading downwards like Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday, and all because the club has stopped investing in players and backing their managers. We will see what the resultant failure on the pitch and supporter apathy does to the balance books.

 

When will these mad fools learn to wish for good things?  If only we invested in players in the way Leeds did, that would guarantee us safety.

 

this is where you don't listen.........sorry to sound patronising again elbee..........but it HAS been said before. It doesn't guarantee anything - particularly as others are doing it - but it helps and you won't succeed if you don't.

 

Why not take your lead from the successful clubs that show you how its done, just accept that to have a chance you have to follow their role model ? The best time we've all had in the last 50 years was when we spent money to compete with them ? Whats the problem with you that you can't see this and accept it?

 

 

Oh, I do completely accept that one should always be aiming to outreach one's grasp.  I'm just saying stupid things to match the stupid shit you're spouting such as "you too have got what you wished for, heading downwards like Leeds".  No-one's wished for that.  Still, keep on keeping on.

 

The best times we've had in the last 50 years coincided with decent stints of stable, quality management.  Unless you're counting the 50million give to Souness as the best of times.  The last lot fucked up re. not letting a _decent_ manager do their thing, and so have this lot.  The money helps but the last lot didn't bankroll Bobby Robson for a fair old while and he still steadied the ship. 

 

You're having a go at people still, for committing the heinous crime of optimism after about four years of steady decline which you seem to have forgotten all about, conveniently.  Yet no-one here CHOSE who was going to buy NUFC.  You seem to think various people on here actually wanted this all to happen.

 

I'm not childishly going to say that anybody wanted the club to go downwards - just pointing out to those who have ignored facts in favour of personal agendas, and those without the balls to admit it, that they did in fact pretty much point out on a fairly regular basis that we would be better off if virtually anyone else ran the club. Considering that over the course of their time we qualified for europe more than everybody but 4 teams, it says everything about the absurdity of it all........and still they stick to their guns, or haven't even got the balls to give a mature and measured response.

 

The crowd last night, and apathy and despair of the last 2 weeks, has been an experience the likes of which surrounded this club for years during most of the 1970's and 1980's.  This is what it was like, despite what one or two others say while they bellyache on about how bad the last 15 years have been and how "embarrassed" they have been..........they have in fact more or less tried to tell you and others that it was "no different".....do YOU think last night and the last 2 weeks has been "no different" to the last 15 years ?

 

Oh dear.

 

 

[NE5]

it's too easy sometimes 

 

you're not enjoying the state the club is in are you ?

 

 

 

 

[macbeth]

 

The crowd last night, and apathy and despair of the last 2 weeks, has been an experience the likes of which surrounded this club for years during most of the 1970's and 1980's.  This is what it was like, despite what one or two others say while they bellyache on about how bad the last 15 years have been and how "embarrassed" they have been..........they have in fact more or less tried to tell you and others that it was "no different".....

 

 

who said that ? They must be mad, who has been embarrassed, who has said they wished to go back to the 70s or 80s ?

 

This thread began to discuss Shepherd's good shape. You have twisted it, as ever to not be about Shepherd but to be about 20 or 30 years ago, or about Ashley. You would make a great politician.

 

"Mr Brown how do you justify the mess the country is in at the moment ?"

"Well if you don't support me you must want John Major back"

"Yes but Mr Brown we're talking about now, not 12 years ago, how do you explain that the country is so worse off now, afert all your time as either Chancellor or PM?"

"In 2003 we increased the pay for nurses, and built lots of new hospitals and nurseries. Compare this to how Mrs Thatcher took free milk from schoolkids in the 70s and then closed down manufacturing in the1980s. Is that what you want instead ?"

"But Mr Brown the banks are collapsing, the country is running out of money, what are you doing about it".

"Back in 1991 under the Conservatives inflation was at 10%, interest rates were over 14%, do you wish to return to that"