It isn't the structure as such that has failed.

[Parky]

PRIMARY OBJECTIVE.

 

The goal of a football organisation is primarily to be successful on the pitch, this takes precedence over all other activities. Once all management fully understand this, other activities and proposals fall into place.

 

The DOF should be someone who has a wide contact footprint and understands the nature of the game Europe wide, ideally also some coaching or management experience in Europe. He would ideally be a senior figure who complements seniority and experience with good instinct. His core objective is to develop the footballing side in harness with the manager and be the managers main confidante in the boardroom.

 

His role should encompass overseeing the transfer strategy by having a team of scouts and consultants under his guidance. They should be briefed on the 'mix' of players targeted by him and the manager for any given window. He should have one chief scout per top tier European league and a 'spotter' in every serious league in the world. Regular briefings should take place including the manager at monthly meetings to collect data and give direction.

 

Mishandling this appointment (DOF) seriously undermines any delusions about being like Arsenal.

 

Discuss.

[garth]

fuck off this getting boring!

[Mowen]

So you reckon it's the way we applied the philosophy rather than the philosophy itself? Or just that Wise is a bit of a cunt?

[Parky]

So you reckon it's the way we applied the philosophy rather than the philosophy itself? Or just that Wise is a bit of a cunt?

 

I think Ashley and Co perhaps had good intentions in the beginning, but ultimately only paid lip service to this philosophy and weren't stringent enough with the setup as regard to objectives and also lines of communication with the manager. Ashley imo is right to the extent that this whole operation takes time, but if you don't fill the positions with competent people that demand respect and have serious experience then the project starts to go off course.

[Parky]

fuck off this getting boring!

 

Well don't post in it then. Simple.

[Ericz]

Parky should tell this to the people managing and have a say at Newcastle United, not us.

 

Everybody has different perspectives and agendas... If all men are born with the same thinking, then there won't be war.

[Mowen]

So you reckon it's the way we applied the philosophy rather than the philosophy itself? Or just that Wise is a bit of a cunt?

 

I think Ashley and Co perhaps had good intentions in the beginning, but ultimately only paid lip service to this philosophy and weren't stringent enough with the setup as regard to objectives and also lines of communication with the manager. Ashley imo is right to the extent that this whole operation takes time, but if you don't fill the positions with competent people that demand respect and have serious experience then the project starts to go off course.

 

The Wise appointment seemed a strange one from the start. Don't know too much about Llambias, but Vetere and Jiminez seemed decent appointments from what I've read of them, and they seem to have found some good players, especially for the prices we have paid.

[Bad Mongo]

It is the structure that has failed. The people working in it have brought in some good players, but I'm sure they could have done that if they were working under the manager instead of the other way around. On the other hand, the structure as it is is a recipe for conflicts between the man in charge of the first team and the people bringing in players to the team. You may say it would be fine if the team manager was more of a coach and a yes-man than Keegan is, but then there is the question of whether such a person will have the players' full respect. The structure won't work, and so far it hasn't worked. That's a fact.

[Skirge]

If he wanted us to be like Arsenal he should not have taken Keegan on under false pretenses then, he should have looked for a coach to come in that was ready and understood that they would work under a DOF. Then he should have chosen a DOF that was not already hated by his clubs fans. I like the idea of find young talent and make them outstanding players but only Arsenal do that so why did he think we could do it?

All other clubs blow fortunes on players and their managers pick them but even Wenger does not work under a DOF he gets the final say on signings. I feel sorry for Ashley and I would like to see hims tay with the club and rake us forward but he needs to admit he got it wrong and look to getting the right people in, no so much Keegan back but a top Coach and a proper setup upstairs without Wise in it.

[Zero]

I think the ultimate problem for the structure is the "final say"on the transfer matters.

tbh, while a lot of people are screaming that "manager should have 100% power on all the transfer issues", this is practically unreal unless you are SAF or Wenger.  Even Benitez and Mourinho didn't have such power.

The structure itself is designed for diversification of risk by sharing the transfer power between Wise (act on behalf of Ashley) and Keegan.

Usually it's between chairman and manager but for Ashley he has chosen Wise to be the one.

 

The system should works but seems like it is inconsistent with what Keegan was promised and, probably it will never be accepted by Keegan. He did try to get along with it but unfortunately he failed.

[OzzieMandias]

I think the strategy was right but the tactics were wrong -- good plan, difficult mix of appointments, long-term intentions not balanced with necessary short-term fixes.

[Zero]

If he wanted us to be like Arsenal he should not have taken Keegan on under false pretenses then, he should have looked for a coach to come in that was ready and understood that they would work under a DOF. Then he should have chosen a DOF that was not already hated by his clubs fans. I like the idea of find young talent and make them outstanding players but only Arsenal do that so why did he think we could do it?

All other clubs blow fortunes on players and their managers pick them but even Wenger does not work under a DOF he gets the final say on signings. I feel sorry for Ashley and I would like to see hims tay with the club and rake us forward but he needs to admit he got it wrong and look to getting the right people in, no so much Keegan back but a top Coach and a proper setup upstairs without Wise in it.

 

If most of the summer's decision was done by Wise I think he should be credited to be honest.

 

However I agree with the appointment issue. Actually Keegan is never a Wenger-type manager --- he is similar to that of Mancini, spend big and instant success. Ashley has made another critical error in deciding manager and now he has paid the price.

[Guest optimistic nit]

doesn't tie in with your previous line parky, could it be that you may have backtracked on your stance slightly? and i can start reading your posts again and not seeing the same old lines peddled without any backing whatsoever?

[indi]

PRIMARY OBJECTIVE.

 

The goal of a football organisation is primarily to be successful on the pitch, this takes precedence over all other activities. Once all management fully understand this, other activities and proposals fall into place.

 

The DOF should be someone who has a wide contact footprint and understands the nature of the game Europe wide, ideally also some coaching or management experience in Europe. He would ideally be a senior figure who complements seniority and experience with good instinct. His core objective is to develop the footballing side in harness with the manager and be the managers main confidante in the boardroom.

 

His role should encompass overseeing the transfer strategy by having a team of scouts and consultants under his guidance. They should be briefed on the 'mix' of players targeted by him and the manager for any given window. He should have one chief scout per top tier European league and a 'spotter' in every serious league in the world. Regular briefings should take place including the manager at monthly meetings to collect data and give direction.

 

Mishandling this appointment (DOF) seriously undermines any delusions about being like Arsenal.

 

Discuss.

 

Leeds were pretty successful on the pitch...

 

 

 

...for a while.

 

 

[Parky]

PRIMARY OBJECTIVE.

 

The goal of a football organisation is primarily to be successful on the pitch, this takes precedence over all other activities. Once all management fully understand this, other activities and proposals fall into place.

 

The DOF should be someone who has a wide contact footprint and understands the nature of the game Europe wide, ideally also some coaching or management experience in Europe. He would ideally be a senior figure who complements seniority and experience with good instinct. His core objective is to develop the footballing side in harness with the manager and be the managers main confidante in the boardroom.

 

His role should encompass overseeing the transfer strategy by having a team of scouts and consultants under his guidance. They should be briefed on the 'mix' of players targeted by him and the manager for any given window. He should have one chief scout per top tier European league and a 'spotter' in every serious league in the world. Regular briefings should take place including the manager at monthly meetings to collect data and give direction.

 

Mishandling this appointment (DOF) seriously undermines any delusions about being like Arsenal.

 

Discuss.

 

Leeds were pretty successful on the pitch...

 

 

 

...for a while.

 

 

 

Their wages to income ration was over 90% near the end. Ours has peaked at 68% or thereabouts. The corollations end there. They also didn't actually own some of their top players and were loaning them under some strange financial instrument, therefore losing out on real re-sale value iirc.

[indi]

PRIMARY OBJECTIVE.

 

The goal of a football organisation is primarily to be successful on the pitch, this takes precedence over all other activities. Once all management fully understand this, other activities and proposals fall into place.

 

The DOF should be someone who has a wide contact footprint and understands the nature of the game Europe wide, ideally also some coaching or management experience in Europe. He would ideally be a senior figure who complements seniority and experience with good instinct. His core objective is to develop the footballing side in harness with the manager and be the managers main confidante in the boardroom.

 

His role should encompass overseeing the transfer strategy by having a team of scouts and consultants under his guidance. They should be briefed on the 'mix' of players targeted by him and the manager for any given window. He should have one chief scout per top tier European league and a 'spotter' in every serious league in the world. Regular briefings should take place including the manager at monthly meetings to collect data and give direction.

 

Mishandling this appointment (DOF) seriously undermines any delusions about being like Arsenal.

 

Discuss.

 

Leeds were pretty successful on the pitch...

 

 

 

...for a while.

 

 

 

Their wages to income ration was over 90% near the end. Ours has peaked at 68% or thereabouts. The corollations end there. They also didn't actually own some of their top players and were loaning them under some strange financial instrument, therefore losing out on real re-sale value iirc.

 

Either, what happens on the pitch "takes precedence over all other activities" or it doesn't.

 

Leeds is a perfect example of why that statement is fundamentally flawed.

 

What happens on the pitch is very important, but not to the detriment of the future of the club.

[Parky]

I think the strategy was right but the tactics were wrong -- good plan, difficult mix of appointments, long-term intentions not balanced with necessary short-term fixes.

 

Good point. We can perhaps see that KK was getting edgy with regard to getting some positions properly covered sharpish.

[Parky]

PRIMARY OBJECTIVE.

 

The goal of a football organisation is primarily to be successful on the pitch, this takes precedence over all other activities. Once all management fully understand this, other activities and proposals fall into place.

 

The DOF should be someone who has a wide contact footprint and understands the nature of the game Europe wide, ideally also some coaching or management experience in Europe. He would ideally be a senior figure who complements seniority and experience with good instinct. His core objective is to develop the footballing side in harness with the manager and be the managers main confidante in the boardroom.

 

His role should encompass overseeing the transfer strategy by having a team of scouts and consultants under his guidance. They should be briefed on the 'mix' of players targeted by him and the manager for any given window. He should have one chief scout per top tier European league and a 'spotter' in every serious league in the world. Regular briefings should take place including the manager at monthly meetings to collect data and give direction.

 

Mishandling this appointment (DOF) seriously undermines any delusions about being like Arsenal.

 

Discuss.

 

Leeds were pretty successful on the pitch...

 

 

 

...for a while.

 

 

 

Their wages to income ration was over 90% near the end. Ours has peaked at 68% or thereabouts. The corollations end there. They also didn't actually own some of their top players and were loaning them under some strange financial instrument, therefore losing out on real re-sale value iirc.

 

Either, what happens on the pitch "takes precedence over all other activities" or it doesn't.

 

Leeds is a perfect example of why that statement is fundamentally flawed.

 

What happens on the pitch is very important, but not to the detriment of the future of the club.

 

You clearly know nothing about what happened at Leeds.

[indi]

PRIMARY OBJECTIVE.

 

The goal of a football organisation is primarily to be successful on the pitch, this takes precedence over all other activities. Once all management fully understand this, other activities and proposals fall into place.

 

The DOF should be someone who has a wide contact footprint and understands the nature of the game Europe wide, ideally also some coaching or management experience in Europe. He would ideally be a senior figure who complements seniority and experience with good instinct. His core objective is to develop the footballing side in harness with the manager and be the managers main confidante in the boardroom.

 

His role should encompass overseeing the transfer strategy by having a team of scouts and consultants under his guidance. They should be briefed on the 'mix' of players targeted by him and the manager for any given window. He should have one chief scout per top tier European league and a 'spotter' in every serious league in the world. Regular briefings should take place including the manager at monthly meetings to collect data and give direction.

 

Mishandling this appointment (DOF) seriously undermines any delusions about being like Arsenal.

 

Discuss.

 

Leeds were pretty successful on the pitch...

 

 

 

...for a while.

 

 

 

Their wages to income ration was over 90% near the end. Ours has peaked at 68% or thereabouts. The corollations end there. They also didn't actually own some of their top players and were loaning them under some strange financial instrument, therefore losing out on real re-sale value iirc.

 

Either, what happens on the pitch "takes precedence over all other activities" or it doesn't.

 

Leeds is a perfect example of why that statement is fundamentally flawed.

 

What happens on the pitch is very important, but not to the detriment of the future of the club.

 

You clearly know nothing about what happened at Leeds.

 

You clearly are not understanding what I'm saying.

 

Leeds was an example of where what happened on the pitch was given "precedence over all other activities" and it was to the detriment of that club's future.

 

How they went about doing that, is neither here, nor there.

[Guest shaun11177]

Parky-you missed an important point-1) should the DOF appoint the Manager or the other way round.

 

Why do Arsenal,Chelsea,Man Utd,A Villa consider such a person is not necessary. 

[Parky]

PRIMARY OBJECTIVE.

 

The goal of a football organisation is primarily to be successful on the pitch, this takes precedence over all other activities. Once all management fully understand this, other activities and proposals fall into place.

 

The DOF should be someone who has a wide contact footprint and understands the nature of the game Europe wide, ideally also some coaching or management experience in Europe. He would ideally be a senior figure who complements seniority and experience with good instinct. His core objective is to develop the footballing side in harness with the manager and be the managers main confidante in the boardroom.

 

His role should encompass overseeing the transfer strategy by having a team of scouts and consultants under his guidance. They should be briefed on the 'mix' of players targeted by him and the manager for any given window. He should have one chief scout per top tier European league and a 'spotter' in every serious league in the world. Regular briefings should take place including the manager at monthly meetings to collect data and give direction.

 

Mishandling this appointment (DOF) seriously undermines any delusions about being like Arsenal.

 

Discuss.

 

Leeds were pretty successful on the pitch...

 

 

 

...for a while.

 

 

 

Their wages to income ration was over 90% near the end. Ours has peaked at 68% or thereabouts. The corollations end there. They also didn't actually own some of their top players and were loaning them under some strange financial instrument, therefore losing out on real re-sale value iirc.

 

Either, what happens on the pitch "takes precedence over all other activities" or it doesn't.

 

Leeds is a perfect example of why that statement is fundamentally flawed.

 

What happens on the pitch is very important, but not to the detriment of the future of the club.

 

You clearly know nothing about what happened at Leeds.

 

You clearly are not understanding what I'm saying.

 

Leeds was an example of where what happened on the pitch was given "precedence over all other activities" and it was to the detriment of that club's future.

 

How they went about doing that, is neither here, nor there.

 

Here's a better example of over loading player spend to the detriment of the club...

 

"The property of the Westfalenstadion, originally belonging to the city of Dortmund and later sold to the club Borussia Dortmund, was sold to a real estate trust in 2002 when the club was facing serious financial problems. Borussia Dortmund intended to repurchase the stadium gradually up to 2017, but was not able to pay the regular rates in spring 2005."

 

[NE5]

PRIMARY OBJECTIVE.

 

The goal of a football organisation is primarily to be successful on the pitch, this takes precedence over all other activities. Once all management fully understand this, other activities and proposals fall into place.

 

The DOF should be someone who has a wide contact footprint and understands the nature of the game Europe wide, ideally also some coaching or management experience in Europe. He would ideally be a senior figure who complements seniority and experience with good instinct. His core objective is to develop the footballing side in harness with the manager and be the managers main confidante in the boardroom.

 

His role should encompass overseeing the transfer strategy by having a team of scouts and consultants under his guidance. They should be briefed on the 'mix' of players targeted by him and the manager for any given window. He should have one chief scout per top tier European league and a 'spotter' in every serious league in the world. Regular briefings should take place including the manager at monthly meetings to collect data and give direction.

 

Mishandling this appointment (DOF) seriously undermines any delusions about being like Arsenal.

 

Discuss.

 

nothing but a glorified scout.

 

Someone like Arthur Cox could do the job perfectly, and be someone chosen by Keegan.

 

No problem.

 

Manager picks staff. Board backs manager. Easy. It then depends on the quality of the personnell.

 

 

[Parky]

PRIMARY OBJECTIVE.

 

The goal of a football organisation is primarily to be successful on the pitch, this takes precedence over all other activities. Once all management fully understand this, other activities and proposals fall into place.

 

The DOF should be someone who has a wide contact footprint and understands the nature of the game Europe wide, ideally also some coaching or management experience in Europe. He would ideally be a senior figure who complements seniority and experience with good instinct. His core objective is to develop the footballing side in harness with the manager and be the managers main confidante in the boardroom.

 

His role should encompass overseeing the transfer strategy by having a team of scouts and consultants under his guidance. They should be briefed on the 'mix' of players targeted by him and the manager for any given window. He should have one chief scout per top tier European league and a 'spotter' in every serious league in the world. Regular briefings should take place including the manager at monthly meetings to collect data and give direction.

 

Mishandling this appointment (DOF) seriously undermines any delusions about being like Arsenal.

 

Discuss.

 

Leeds were pretty successful on the pitch...

 

 

 

...for a while.

 

 

 

Their wages to income ration was over 90% near the end. Ours has peaked at 68% or thereabouts. The corollations end there. They also didn't actually own some of their top players and were loaning them under some strange financial instrument, therefore losing out on real re-sale value iirc.

 

Either, what happens on the pitch "takes precedence over all other activities" or it doesn't.

 

Leeds is a perfect example of why that statement is fundamentally flawed.

 

What happens on the pitch is very important, but not to the detriment of the future of the club.

 

You clearly know nothing about what happened at Leeds.

 

You clearly are not understanding what I'm saying.

 

Leeds was an example of where what happened on the pitch was given "precedence over all other activities" and it was to the detriment of that club's future.

 

How they went about doing that, is neither here, nor there.

 

It's a simple thing Indi they did it the wrong way. Leeds isn't a de facto test case for all these scenarios at all. I think perhaps you are concentr

Parky-you missed an important point-1) should the DOF appoint the Manager or the other way round.

 

Why do Arsenal,Chelsea,Man Utd,A Villa consider such a person is not necessary. 

 

At Chelsea there is a structure of sorts involving Kenyon and the one they nicked from Spurs forget his name. Your point stands however where Arsenal and Man U are concerned. O'Neill doesn't brook any interference.

[indi]

PRIMARY OBJECTIVE.

 

The goal of a football organisation is primarily to be successful on the pitch, this takes precedence over all other activities. Once all management fully understand this, other activities and proposals fall into place.

 

The DOF should be someone who has a wide contact footprint and understands the nature of the game Europe wide, ideally also some coaching or management experience in Europe. He would ideally be a senior figure who complements seniority and experience with good instinct. His core objective is to develop the footballing side in harness with the manager and be the managers main confidante in the boardroom.

 

His role should encompass overseeing the transfer strategy by having a team of scouts and consultants under his guidance. They should be briefed on the 'mix' of players targeted by him and the manager for any given window. He should have one chief scout per top tier European league and a 'spotter' in every serious league in the world. Regular briefings should take place including the manager at monthly meetings to collect data and give direction.

 

Mishandling this appointment (DOF) seriously undermines any delusions about being like Arsenal.

 

Discuss.

 

Leeds were pretty successful on the pitch...

 

 

 

...for a while.

 

 

 

Their wages to income ration was over 90% near the end. Ours has peaked at 68% or thereabouts. The corollations end there. They also didn't actually own some of their top players and were loaning them under some strange financial instrument, therefore losing out on real re-sale value iirc.

 

Either, what happens on the pitch "takes precedence over all other activities" or it doesn't.

 

Leeds is a perfect example of why that statement is fundamentally flawed.

 

What happens on the pitch is very important, but not to the detriment of the future of the club.

 

You clearly know nothing about what happened at Leeds.

 

You clearly are not understanding what I'm saying.

 

Leeds was an example of where what happened on the pitch was given "precedence over all other activities" and it was to the detriment of that club's future.

 

How they went about doing that, is neither here, nor there.

 

Here's a better example of over loading player spend to the detriment of the club...

 

"The property of the Westfalenstadion, originally belonging to the city of Dortmund and later sold to the club Borussia Dortmund, was sold to a real estate trust in 2002 when the club was facing serious financial problems. Borussia Dortmund intended to repurchase the stadium gradually up to 2017, but was not able to pay the regular rates in spring 2005."

 

 

Are you trying to filibuster me?

 

What relevance has anything you've posted in response got to do with the point I was making?

 

 

[Parky]

PRIMARY OBJECTIVE.

 

The goal of a football organisation is primarily to be successful on the pitch, this takes precedence over all other activities. Once all management fully understand this, other activities and proposals fall into place.

 

The DOF should be someone who has a wide contact footprint and understands the nature of the game Europe wide, ideally also some coaching or management experience in Europe. He would ideally be a senior figure who complements seniority and experience with good instinct. His core objective is to develop the footballing side in harness with the manager and be the managers main confidante in the boardroom.

 

His role should encompass overseeing the transfer strategy by having a team of scouts and consultants under his guidance. They should be briefed on the 'mix' of players targeted by him and the manager for any given window. He should have one chief scout per top tier European league and a 'spotter' in every serious league in the world. Regular briefings should take place including the manager at monthly meetings to collect data and give direction.

 

Mishandling this appointment (DOF) seriously undermines any delusions about being like Arsenal.

 

Discuss.

 

Leeds were pretty successful on the pitch...

 

 

 

...for a while.

 

 

 

Their wages to income ration was over 90% near the end. Ours has peaked at 68% or thereabouts. The corollations end there. They also didn't actually own some of their top players and were loaning them under some strange financial instrument, therefore losing out on real re-sale value iirc.

 

Either, what happens on the pitch "takes precedence over all other activities" or it doesn't.

 

Leeds is a perfect example of why that statement is fundamentally flawed.

 

What happens on the pitch is very important, but not to the detriment of the future of the club.

 

You clearly know nothing about what happened at Leeds.

 

You clearly are not understanding what I'm saying.

 

Leeds was an example of where what happened on the pitch was given "precedence over all other activities" and it was to the detriment of that club's future.

 

How they went about doing that, is neither here, nor there.

 

Here's a better example of over loading player spend to the detriment of the club...

 

"The property of the Westfalenstadion, originally belonging to the city of Dortmund and later sold to the club Borussia Dortmund, was sold to a real estate trust in 2002 when the club was facing serious financial problems. Borussia Dortmund intended to repurchase the stadium gradually up to 2017, but was not able to pay the regular rates in spring 2005."

 

 

Are you trying to filibuster me?

 

What relevance has anything you've posted in response got to do with the point I was making?

 

 

 

Filli what?!! 

 

Dortmund overspent so much on players they couldn't cover it and sold the stadium and leased it back. Wildly careless and a solid example of mishandling of over loading player purchases against other factors.