Ferguson & Wenger Back Keegan & Curbishley

[AyeDubbleYoo]

That I'm tired of hearing about johnny come latelys harping on about patience. Again and again and.....

 

Sorry, I could only support Newcastle since I was born, can't do any better than that I'm afraid.

 

I'll try to rephrase it differently. Why should one of the biggest clubs in the country EVER be "patient". Shouldn't we ALWAYS be expecting to challenge and show the ambition to challenge on that very basis ? Don't you think that we understand that this "planning" and "patience" is absolutely no guarantee of anything ? Do you understand that lots of other clubs are attempting to preach "patience" that might get in the way of our own hopes too ?

 

In football........things change quickly, often and unexpectedly all the time....today and the immediate future, is ALL that matters.

Get the supporters in, and if you are a big club, keep them in.

 

 

Yeah, I completely agree that we are one of the bigger clubs and we should be challenging. If we've got the financial clout to go out and get the big players then we should do it.

 

But surely everyone would think like that? Any owner would go out and get the best players if it was possible and sustainable to do so, wouldn't they?

 

I don't think you'll find many people disagreeing with you on that point, I certainly don't.

 

All I would say is that 'today and the immediate future is all that matters' is a bit worrying, what about the Leeds situation, where you're financed up to the hilt so that one failure to qualify for the champions league leads to meltdown?

[TRon]

That I'm tired of hearing about johnny come latelys harping on about patience. Again and again and.....

 

Sorry, I could only support Newcastle since I was born, can't do any better than that I'm afraid.

 

I'll try to rephrase it differently. Why should one of the biggest clubs in the country EVER be "patient". Shouldn't we ALWAYS be expecting to challenge and show the ambition to challenge on that very basis ? Don't you think that we understand that this "planning" and "patience" is absolutely no guarantee of anything ? Do you understand that lots of other clubs are attempting to preach "patience" that might get in the way of our own hopes too ?

 

In football........things change quickly, often and unexpectedly all the time....today and the immediate future, is ALL that matters.

Get the supporters in, and if you are a big club, keep them in.

 

 

 

 

Being a big club doesn't guarantee you will have bigger and better funds available every season, forever and ever. If you spend like a top 5 club you need to finish top 5 to maintain that spend usually.

[NE5]

That I'm tired of hearing about johnny come latelys harping on about patience. Again and again and.....

 

Sorry, I could only support Newcastle since I was born, can't do any better than that I'm afraid.

 

I'll try to rephrase it differently. Why should one of the biggest clubs in the country EVER be "patient". Shouldn't we ALWAYS be expecting to challenge and show the ambition to challenge on that very basis ? Don't you think that we understand that this "planning" and "patience" is absolutely no guarantee of anything ? Do you understand that lots of other clubs are attempting to preach "patience" that might get in the way of our own hopes too ?

 

In football........things change quickly, often and unexpectedly all the time....today and the immediate future, is ALL that matters.

Get the supporters in, and if you are a big club, keep them in.

 

 

 

 

Being a big club doesn't guarantee you will have bigger and better funds available every season, forever and ever. If you spend like a top 5 club you need to finish top 5 to maintain that spend usually.

 

yes, I understand that, its called speculate to accumulate. While it is no guarantee of success because other clubs are also doing it, there's nowt more certain in football that if you DON'T speculate you WILL go downwards and backwards.

[NE5]

That I'm tired of hearing about johnny come latelys harping on about patience. Again and again and.....

 

Sorry, I could only support Newcastle since I was born, can't do any better than that I'm afraid.

 

I'll try to rephrase it differently. Why should one of the biggest clubs in the country EVER be "patient". Shouldn't we ALWAYS be expecting to challenge and show the ambition to challenge on that very basis ? Don't you think that we understand that this "planning" and "patience" is absolutely no guarantee of anything ? Do you understand that lots of other clubs are attempting to preach "patience" that might get in the way of our own hopes too ?

 

In football........things change quickly, often and unexpectedly all the time....today and the immediate future, is ALL that matters.

Get the supporters in, and if you are a big club, keep them in.

 

 

Yeah, I completely agree that we are one of the bigger clubs and we should be challenging. If we've got the financial clout to go out and get the big players then we should do it.

 

But surely everyone would think like that? Any owner would go out and get the best players if it was possible and sustainable to do so, wouldn't they?

 

I don't think you'll find many people disagreeing with you on that point, I certainly don't.

 

All I would say is that 'today and the immediate future is all that matters' is a bit worrying, what about the Leeds situation, where you're financed up to the hilt so that one failure to qualify for the champions league leads to meltdown?

 

well, someone like Chez or Scott Parkers 60;s haircut is more up on this than me, but I also know some Leeds supporters and they say to a man that in spite of what happened, it was the borrowing of too much money to buy players that led to their downfall.

 

They know that they don't have the potential and support of us, for instance, and while they accept Ridsdale meant well they realise that he overstretched the club outside their limits. They predominantly bought players they didn't really need to, which was a big factor. And they partly blame O'Leary too. Having said that, they enjoyed the run to the Champs League Semi Final [who wouldn't] and in that respect, have had a lot more to shout about than teams living within themselves that have done absolutely jack shit.

 

Two extremes of the coin maybe ?

 

Having watched NUFC for 30 years doing precisely nothing, living in nowhere land, existing in nowhere land, and being completely and totally anonymous,  I much prefer them to actually have a go, even if it doesn't ultimately reach the finishing line.

 

Edit: I have to say this too, but the top 4 are set up to remain in the Champs League. People who harped on about us splashing out in the summer of 2003 are actually saying that we should have went down the road of setting up the club so that it was essential to remain in the Champs League ?

 

So which is it, you can't have it both ways ?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Aye, I agree with you in principle, I would love to see us competing fully as well. Maybe the Man City and Leeds examples are extremes.

 

Hopefully the new owners can find a way to do a reasonable amount of speculating without putting the club in jeopardy. Then with a bit of luck maybe we can do something. Obviously the easiest way is if they have infinite personal wealth to subsidise us with!

[NE5]

Aye, I agree with you in principle, I would love to see us competing fully as well. Maybe the Man City and Leeds are extremes.

 

Hopefully the new owners can find a way to do a reasonable amount of speculating without putting the club in jeopardy. Then with a bit of luck maybe we can do something. Obviously the easiest way is if they have infinite personal wealth to subsidise us with!

 

I added a paragraph to the last post Ian. Don't get me wrong, I'm not really sure what the best course of action was in the summer of 2003. The club had bought Woodgate in the January, I too, didn't want to see them go the way of Leeds, and I saw then that they ie Leeds, had overstretched and told the same lads i've just mentioned - that it was about to catch up with them.

 

But, yes, I do think the Leeds example is stretching the point, its very rare for a team to crash as much as that, its just scaremongering and anyway, they will be back. They've had a damn sight better last decade than a nobody team run on a shoestring budget [as some people would prefer] than the likes of Everton though, who have done precisely fuck all hardly and in my  opinion, THAT ie their own unwillingness to speculate, is about to catch up with them too.

 

 

 

 

[Guest Edd]

That I'm tired of hearing about johnny come latelys harping on about patience. Again and again and.....

 

Sorry, I could only support Newcastle since I was born, can't do any better than that I'm afraid.

 

I'll try to rephrase it differently. Why should one of the biggest clubs in the country EVER be "patient". Shouldn't we ALWAYS be expecting to challenge and show the ambition to challenge on that very basis ? Don't you think that we understand that this "planning" and "patience" is absolutely no guarantee of anything ? Do you understand that lots of other clubs are attempting to preach "patience" that might get in the way of our own hopes too ?

 

In football........things change quickly, often and unexpectedly all the time....today and the immediate future, is ALL that matters.

Get the supporters in, and if you are a big club, keep them in.

 

 

It's a good job ManU didn't think like that when they hadn't won the league for god knows how many years and Fergie was allowed 5 or 6 years building a team that could finally win it.

 

Patience doesn't guarantee you anything, but it's a more sustainable approach than throwing money at the problem.  If that doesn't give immediate returns, and like "patience" there are no guarantees,  then you end up in a worse position than when you started.  And taking the patient approach doesn't necessarily mean not spending a decent amount of money, it just means spending it in different areas that will have longer term benefits.

 

We've tried the big money approach and while it was fun for a few years we won nothing, so where is the harm in spending 3 or 4 years investing in the best youth, developing talent and showing a bit of support and patience?  Unless we get some multi-billionaire owner willing to throw the cash around then surely it's our best chance of competing even if it does take a number of years?

 

[NE5]

That I'm tired of hearing about johnny come latelys harping on about patience. Again and again and.....

 

Sorry, I could only support Newcastle since I was born, can't do any better than that I'm afraid.

 

I'll try to rephrase it differently. Why should one of the biggest clubs in the country EVER be "patient". Shouldn't we ALWAYS be expecting to challenge and show the ambition to challenge on that very basis ? Don't you think that we understand that this "planning" and "patience" is absolutely no guarantee of anything ? Do you understand that lots of other clubs are attempting to preach "patience" that might get in the way of our own hopes too ?

 

In football........things change quickly, often and unexpectedly all the time....today and the immediate future, is ALL that matters.

Get the supporters in, and if you are a big club, keep them in.

 

 

It's a good job ManU didn't think like that when they hadn't won the league for god knows how many years and Fergie was allowed 5 or 6 years building a team that could finally win it.

 

Patience doesn't guarantee you anything, but it's a more sustainable approach than throwing money at the problem.  If that doesn't give immediate returns, and like "patience" there are no guarantees,  then you end up in a worse position than when you started.  And taking the patient approach doesn't necessarily mean not spending a decent amount of money, it just means spending it in different areas that will have longer term benefits.

 

We've tried the big money approach and while it was fun for a few years we won nothing, so where is the harm in spending 3 or 4 years investing in the best youth, developing talent and showing a bit of support and patience?  Unless we get some multi-billionaire owner willing to throw the cash around then surely it's our best chance of competing even if it does take a number of years?

 

 

you're completely wrong. Do some research. ManU continued to spend more money than everybody during those years, they also won a couple of FA Cups and the Cup Winners Cup.

 

They were, in spite of that, only 1 game from sacking Ferguson. NUFC would not have sacked Dalglish if we had won the FA Cup Final. We also didn't ask Keegan to walk out [the first time].

 

The FACT is that you need to speculate, or you get nowhere. You can name as many teams as you like that have spent money and won nothing, the only reason for that is because there are only 3 domestic trophies, however there ARE european places up for grabs, and we have had plenty of those.

 

If you think patience always pays off, do you think we should have stuck with Dalglish, Gullit, Souness, Roeder or Allardyce ?

 

I've just quoted Everton. Moyes has been there for 6 years ? What has he won ? They have been very much a yo-yo club, and the reason for that is that they have not speculated. Their approach has a limit, only possible with a half decent manager, and they have reached it, and he hasn't matched our positions under Bobby Robson or reached an FA Cup Final like Dalglish and Gullit.

 

 

[Guest Edd]

That I'm tired of hearing about johnny come latelys harping on about patience. Again and again and.....

 

Sorry, I could only support Newcastle since I was born, can't do any better than that I'm afraid.

 

I'll try to rephrase it differently. Why should one of the biggest clubs in the country EVER be "patient". Shouldn't we ALWAYS be expecting to challenge and show the ambition to challenge on that very basis ? Don't you think that we understand that this "planning" and "patience" is absolutely no guarantee of anything ? Do you understand that lots of other clubs are attempting to preach "patience" that might get in the way of our own hopes too ?

 

In football........things change quickly, often and unexpectedly all the time....today and the immediate future, is ALL that matters.

Get the supporters in, and if you are a big club, keep them in.

 

 

It's a good job ManU didn't think like that when they hadn't won the league for god knows how many years and Fergie was allowed 5 or 6 years building a team that could finally win it.

 

Patience doesn't guarantee you anything, but it's a more sustainable approach than throwing money at the problem.  If that doesn't give immediate returns, and like "patience" there are no guarantees,  then you end up in a worse position than when you started.  And taking the patient approach doesn't necessarily mean not spending a decent amount of money, it just means spending it in different areas that will have longer term benefits.

 

We've tried the big money approach and while it was fun for a few years we won nothing, so where is the harm in spending 3 or 4 years investing in the best youth, developing talent and showing a bit of support and patience?  Unless we get some multi-billionaire owner willing to throw the cash around then surely it's our best chance of competing even if it does take a number of years?

 

 

you're completely wrong. Do some research. ManU continued to spend more money than everybody during those years, they also won a couple of FA Cups and the Cup Winners Cup.

 

They were, in spite of that, only 1 game from sacking Ferguson. NUFC would not have sacked Dalglish if we had won the FA Cup Final. We also didn't ask Keegan to walk out [the first time].

 

The FACT is that you need to speculate, or you get nowhere. You can name as many teams as you like that have spent money and won nothing, the only reason for that is because there are only 3 domestic trophies, however there ARE european places up for grabs, and we have had plenty of those.

 

If you think patience always pays off, do you think we should have stuck with Dalglish, Gullit, Souness, Roeder or Allardyce ?

 

I've just quoted Everton. Moyes has been there for 6 years ? What has he won ? They have been very much a yo-yo club, and the reason for that is that they have not speculated. Their approach has a limit, only possible with a half decent manager, and they have reached it, and he hasn't matched our positions under Bobby Robson or reached an FA Cup Final like Dalglish and Gullit.

 

If you read my post you'll see that I said having patience "doesn't necessarily mean not spending a decent amount of money".  I know Ferguson spent money, but the club and fans also showed patience when they didn't win the league for a number of years, even though that was all most fans cared about at the time.  And when ManU did start to consistently win the league it was with a core of players that had come through the youth setup.  A setup that only showed results due to patience and hard work.

 

IMO even if we spent a large amount of money we would still need to show patience as we are so far behind.  It's only if a  new owner spent a ridiculous sum of money that we could quickly close the gap and I'd be shocked if you as an older supporter wanted to achieve success like that.  I know I certainly wouldn't.

 

And haven't you contradicted yourself with the Everton argument.  You say we need to speculate to get into one of the European places, but then say Everton have reached their limit because they haven't speculated.  This will be the same Everton that are currently in Europe due to, in your own words, having "a half decent manager".  Yes, that approach might well have it's limits, but then, if ever, might be the time to speculate as we would be in a much more secure position financially and a much better position to attract the best players.

 

Just to repeat.  I'm not against spending money, I just think we need to look at other ways of spending it that have longer term benefits.

[NE5]

That I'm tired of hearing about johnny come latelys harping on about patience. Again and again and.....

 

Sorry, I could only support Newcastle since I was born, can't do any better than that I'm afraid.

 

I'll try to rephrase it differently. Why should one of the biggest clubs in the country EVER be "patient". Shouldn't we ALWAYS be expecting to challenge and show the ambition to challenge on that very basis ? Don't you think that we understand that this "planning" and "patience" is absolutely no guarantee of anything ? Do you understand that lots of other clubs are attempting to preach "patience" that might get in the way of our own hopes too ?

 

In football........things change quickly, often and unexpectedly all the time....today and the immediate future, is ALL that matters.

Get the supporters in, and if you are a big club, keep them in.

 

 

It's a good job ManU didn't think like that when they hadn't won the league for god knows how many years and Fergie was allowed 5 or 6 years building a team that could finally win it.

 

Patience doesn't guarantee you anything, but it's a more sustainable approach than throwing money at the problem.  If that doesn't give immediate returns, and like "patience" there are no guarantees,  then you end up in a worse position than when you started.  And taking the patient approach doesn't necessarily mean not spending a decent amount of money, it just means spending it in different areas that will have longer term benefits.

 

We've tried the big money approach and while it was fun for a few years we won nothing, so where is the harm in spending 3 or 4 years investing in the best youth, developing talent and showing a bit of support and patience?  Unless we get some multi-billionaire owner willing to throw the cash around then surely it's our best chance of competing even if it does take a number of years?

 

 

you're completely wrong. Do some research. ManU continued to spend more money than everybody during those years, they also won a couple of FA Cups and the Cup Winners Cup.

 

They were, in spite of that, only 1 game from sacking Ferguson. NUFC would not have sacked Dalglish if we had won the FA Cup Final. We also didn't ask Keegan to walk out [the first time].

 

The FACT is that you need to speculate, or you get nowhere. You can name as many teams as you like that have spent money and won nothing, the only reason for that is because there are only 3 domestic trophies, however there ARE european places up for grabs, and we have had plenty of those.

 

If you think patience always pays off, do you think we should have stuck with Dalglish, Gullit, Souness, Roeder or Allardyce ?

 

I've just quoted Everton. Moyes has been there for 6 years ? What has he won ? They have been very much a yo-yo club, and the reason for that is that they have not speculated. Their approach has a limit, only possible with a half decent manager, and they have reached it, and he hasn't matched our positions under Bobby Robson or reached an FA Cup Final like Dalglish and Gullit.

 

If you read my post you'll see that I said having patience "doesn't necessarily mean not spending a decent amount of money".  I know Ferguson spent money, but the club and fans also showed patience when they didn't win the league for a number of years, even though that was all most fans cared about at the time.  And when ManU did start to consistently win the league it was with a core of players that had come through the youth setup.  A setup that only showed results due to patience and hard work.

 

IMO even if we spent a large amount of money we would still need to show patience as we are so far behind.  It's only if a  new owner spent a ridiculous sum of money that we could quickly close the gap and I'd be shocked if you as an older supporter wanted to achieve success like that.  I know I certainly wouldn't.

 

And haven't you contradicted yourself with the Everton argument.  You say we need to speculate to get into one of the European places, but then say Everton have reached their limit because they haven't speculated.  This will be the same Everton that are currently in Europe due to, in your own words, having "a half decent manager".  Yes, that approach might well have it's limits, but then, if ever, might be the time to speculate as we would be in a much more secure position financially and a much better position to attract the best players.

 

Just to repeat.  I'm not against spending money, I just think we need to look at other ways of spending it that have longer term benefits.

 

they showed patience with Ferguson because they believed he would get it right. ManU sacked numerous managers before Ferguson, because they realised they were not going to get what they wanted, apart from Docherty who was sacked [or resigned] because of his affair with the wife of someone else on the staff of the club. Who he later married, but at the time, this was by the by.

 

No, I haven't contradicted myself re Everton. I'm pointing out that adopting this approach only works to a limited extent, by virture of having a half decent manager and coming out on top of all the clubs existing in this way because of him. Newcastle United are bigger than that, I expect them to act it, and our own fortunes over the past decade have been better than EVerton's precisely because we did.

 

When we act bigger than them again, we will get above them again. When Moyes goes and they appoint someone else who is likely to be not so good, they will become one of the nobody teams of the premiership again, because that is what the norm for their  limited speculation.

 

I want the club to punch its weight, and to be more specific, back its appointed manager. Even if I personally don't particular rate him, its not my appointment, its their decision and so they should back him.

 

 

[OzzieMandias]

That I'm tired of hearing about johnny come latelys harping on about patience. Again and again and.....

 

Sorry, I could only support Newcastle since I was born, can't do any better than that I'm afraid.

 

I'll try to rephrase it differently. Why should one of the biggest clubs in the country EVER be "patient". Shouldn't we ALWAYS be expecting to challenge and show the ambition to challenge on that very basis ? Don't you think that we understand that this "planning" and "patience" is absolutely no guarantee of anything ? Do you understand that lots of other clubs are attempting to preach "patience" that might get in the way of our own hopes too ?

 

In football........things change quickly, often and unexpectedly all the time....today and the immediate future, is ALL that matters.

Get the supporters in, and if you are a big club, keep them in.

 

 

It's a good job ManU didn't think like that when they hadn't won the league for god knows how many years and Fergie was allowed 5 or 6 years building a team that could finally win it.

 

Patience doesn't guarantee you anything, but it's a more sustainable approach than throwing money at the problem.  If that doesn't give immediate returns, and like "patience" there are no guarantees,  then you end up in a worse position than when you started.  And taking the patient approach doesn't necessarily mean not spending a decent amount of money, it just means spending it in different areas that will have longer term benefits.

 

We've tried the big money approach and while it was fun for a few years we won nothing, so where is the harm in spending 3 or 4 years investing in the best youth, developing talent and showing a bit of support and patience?  Unless we get some multi-billionaire owner willing to throw the cash around then surely it's our best chance of competing even if it does take a number of years?

 

 

you're completely wrong. Do some research. ManU continued to spend more money than everybody during those years, they also won a couple of FA Cups and the Cup Winners Cup.

 

They were, in spite of that, only 1 game from sacking Ferguson. NUFC would not have sacked Dalglish if we had won the FA Cup Final. We also didn't ask Keegan to walk out [the first time].

 

The FACT is that you need to speculate, or you get nowhere. You can name as many teams as you like that have spent money and won nothing, the only reason for that is because there are only 3 domestic trophies, however there ARE european places up for grabs, and we have had plenty of those.

 

If you think patience always pays off, do you think we should have stuck with Dalglish, Gullit, Souness, Roeder or Allardyce ?

 

I've just quoted Everton. Moyes has been there for 6 years ? What has he won ? They have been very much a yo-yo club, and the reason for that is that they have not speculated. Their approach has a limit, only possible with a half decent manager, and they have reached it, and he hasn't matched our positions under Bobby Robson or reached an FA Cup Final like Dalglish and Gullit.

 

 

 

The problem there isn't patience, but poor managerial appointments.

 

Presumbly you think spending £50 million on Souness was a marvellous idea.

[Guest optimistic nit]

Some Arsenal model mind. Especially when their own manager disagrees with the way it has come about.

 

The Arsenal comment was clearly about bring through and buying youngsters as a model for the future, nothing to do with who goes out and gets them.

 

 

 

Arsenal wouldn't have a model if someone was doing business above Wenger's head.

 

But we haven't got a manager anywhere near the standard of Wenger so your point in irrelevant.

 

Dave your post is purely based on conjecture and Baggio your post is plain stupid.

 

 

 

 

i think it says something when all the leading figures of the game, these 2, sir bobby and many more all come out and say stuff like this. when has there been such a collective of people willing to comment on a situation at another club before?

 

that said, i think ashley was trying to do the right thing, i think our system is based on spurs' system, but their manager puts up with it and keegan didnt.

 

I think these 2 systems both give more control to the manager than ian dowie, scolari and mark hughes have.

 

there is a bigger underlineing problem in football, rather than just at nufc imo.

 

 

keegan appears not to have been able to choose his DOF himself though, that may have been the biggest problem.

[Guest optimistic nit]

Ashley only wanted to be like Arsenal in the way of not blowing big money on players, but as well all know for that to really work you need Wenger.

 

Precisely.

 

no, look at clubs like villa, everton and pompey. they are all much better clubs than us and spurs now, because they have quietly gone about their business over the last few years building a team, not sacking their managers and doing it sustainably, whereas we have gone out and flashed a lot of money about on shit or good players not worth the money and look where its got us. it doesn't suprise me at all that spurs are where they are, because they've adopted the exact same transfer policy of last season, which was catastrophic.

 

i thought we were going to have a good season until this shit happened, because for once we didn't act like a rich megastar while really being a desperate C list celeb looking for a few column inches to put in their portfolio.

 

we've got to realise that spending DOES NOT equal success.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We seem to think having a 52 K a week attendance justifies us going around and wasting money, well it doesn't, we have no more right to be in the top half than pompey do. Spurs are the same. Owen is not worth 100K a week for us, because we wont get that back off him. if we had a successful team, one in europe, he would be easily worth 100K a week, but as it stands Owen will probably be the difference between a 12th and 15th place finish.

That said i am quite happy for us to give owen 100K a week, because if we ever do start to get a decent team togther without it falling apart like that tower block removing game he will be worth his wages.

[Dave]

[NE5]

Some Arsenal model mind. Especially when their own manager disagrees with the way it has come about.

 

The Arsenal comment was clearly about bring through and buying youngsters as a model for the future, nothing to do with who goes out and gets them.

 

 

 

Arsenal wouldn't have a model if someone was doing business above Wenger's head.

 

But we haven't got a manager anywhere near the standard of Wenger so your point in irrelevant.

 

Dave your post is purely based on conjecture and Baggio your post is plain stupid.

 

 

 

 

i think it says something when all the leading figures of the game, these 2, sir bobby and many more all come out and say stuff like this. when has there been such a collective of people willing to comment on a situation at another club before?

 

that said, i think ashley was trying to do the right thing, i think our system is based on spurs' system, but their manager puts up with it and keegan didnt.

 

I think these 2 systems both give more control to the manager than ian dowie, scolari and mark hughes have.

 

there is a bigger underlineing problem in football, rather than just at nufc imo.

 

 

keegan appears not to have been able to choose his DOF himself though, that may have been the biggest problem.

 

Look. If 10 teams all spend 50m quid, do they all win the title, FA Cup or League Cup ?

 

But if another teams spends nowt or next to nowt, what are their chances of even catching these 10 ?

 

I can't put it any simpler than that. I don't understand why so many people don't understand this. Its kids stuff. ARe you in denial about something ?

 

Tell me why all the winning clubs have all spent money, if its unnecessary.

 

Blimey. How many more times ..........

 

 

[NJS]

I know I'm banging my head against a brick wall here but what we needed was a combination of the sensible long term plan combined with a possible one-off initial spree to get us 5 or 6 places higher.

 

The easiest way to do this would have been to let Wise et al get on with their thing (with KK's approval) and let the man himself have a reasonable budget to spend by himself.

 

 

The latter of course didn't happen and the former stopped short of numbers. Now we're left with a squad lacking quantity and quality with no inspiration.

[Bad Mongo]

We've acted like a poor version of Spurs in the transfer market, though. Gone for a few glamour signings in the beginning of the transfer window, made a couple of signings that have created a bit of buzz, then failed to strengthen our weakest positions, and sold the player we got the best offer for ... without replacing him. That's what Spurs would do, not Everton or Villa.

[Dave]

I know I'm banging my head against a brick wall here but what we needed was a combination of the sensible long term plan combined with a possible one-off initial spree to get us 5 or 6 places higher.

 

The easiest way to do this would have been to let Wise et al get on with their thing (with KK's approval) and let the man himself have a reasonable budget to spend by himself.

 

 

The latter of course didn't happen and the former stopped short of numbers. Now we're left with a squad lacking quantity and quality with no inspiration.

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more, I think that's just about spot on.

 

I was defending Ashley right up until the close of the window because I always hoped we'd spend the money required to get a couple of players that would make the difference. The £12m from the Milner sale simply made me more confident this would happen. It didn't.

[Guest optimistic nit]

Some Arsenal model mind. Especially when their own manager disagrees with the way it has come about.

 

The Arsenal comment was clearly about bring through and buying youngsters as a model for the future, nothing to do with who goes out and gets them.

 

 

 

Arsenal wouldn't have a model if someone was doing business above Wenger's head.

 

But we haven't got a manager anywhere near the standard of Wenger so your point in irrelevant.

 

Dave your post is purely based on conjecture and Baggio your post is plain stupid.

 

 

 

 

i think it says something when all the leading figures of the game, these 2, sir bobby and many more all come out and say stuff like this. when has there been such a collective of people willing to comment on a situation at another club before?

 

that said, i think ashley was trying to do the right thing, i think our system is based on spurs' system, but their manager puts up with it and keegan didnt.

 

I think these 2 systems both give more control to the manager than ian dowie, scolari and mark hughes have.

 

there is a bigger underlineing problem in football, rather than just at nufc imo.

 

 

keegan appears not to have been able to choose his DOF himself though, that may have been the biggest problem.

 

Look. If 10 teams all spend 50m quid, do they all win the title, FA Cup or League Cup ?

 

But if another teams spends nowt or next to nowt, what are their chances of even catching these 10 ?

 

I can't put it any simpler than that. I don't understand why so many people don't understand this. Its kids stuff. ARe you in denial about something ?

 

Tell me why all the winning clubs have all spent money, if its unnecessary.

 

Blimey. How many more times ..........

 

 

 

 

 

NE5 you never listen, and you've completely missed my point as usual.

[Guest optimistic nit]

We've acted like a poor version of Spurs in the transfer market, though. Gone for a few glamour signings in the beginning of the transfer window, made a couple of signings that have created a bit of buzz, then failed to strengthen our weakest positions, and sold the player we got the best offer for ... without replacing him. That's what Spurs would do, not Everton or Villa.

 

 

totally true, we could have done much better in the transfer window, but my point was not that we had a good transfer window but that you dont need wenger to improve without spending big sums.

 

villa and everton had poor windows as well mind.

[Guest gggg]

no, look at clubs like villa, everton and pompey. they are all much better clubs than us and spurs now, because they have quietly gone about their business over the last few years building a team, not sacking their managers and doing it sustainably,

 

If we were going about things like Villa, Everton and Portsmouth i don't think anybody would be complaining at all.

[johnnypd]

I know I'm banging my head against a brick wall here but what we needed was a combination of the sensible long term plan combined with a possible one-off initial spree to get us 5 or 6 places higher.

 

The easiest way to do this would have been to let Wise et al get on with their thing (with KK's approval) and let the man himself have a reasonable budget to spend by himself.

 

 

The latter of course didn't happen and the former stopped short of numbers. Now we're left with a squad lacking quantity and quality with no inspiration.

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more, I think that's just about spot on.

 

I was defending Ashley right up until the close of the window because I always hoped we'd spend the money required to get a couple of players that would make the difference.

 

same, though i was a bit more critical earlier, but essentially we're of the same mindset on this. if wise's job was to bring in half a dozen youngsters for the academy i dont see why he couldnt do this and hand the players over to the first-team if and when they were ready. then we coldve let keegan and vetere collaborate on first team targets, with vetere answering to keegan and finding players with the specific qualities keegan has asked for. it seems it got totally mixed up somewhere down the line and i suspect it is due to the lack of funds ashley was prepared to let us spend, in the end two sets of priorities emerged and fought each other for power/control, when they were supposed to be working in concert, with the express purpose of making keegan's job easier, not harder.

 

there are some people who are retrospectively rubbishing keegan's ability in the transfer market, which is bollocks imo. but even if you were to question that, you still have to back a manager if they have shown the ability to create a good team. for instance, would you relieve Martin O'Neill of his transfer duties? after all, he went and spent £12m on James Milner, or £10m on Curtis Davies, or £8m on Harewood and Knight. If the villa board thought like that they'd just end up forcing him out too, and then theyd be left without a manager.

[NE5]

Ashley only wanted to be like Arsenal in the way of not blowing big money on players, but as well all know for that to really work you need Wenger.

 

Precisely.

 

no, look at clubs like villa, everton and pompey. they are all much better clubs than us and spurs now, because they have quietly gone about their business over the last few years building a team, not sacking their managers and doing it sustainably, whereas we have gone out and flashed a lot of money about on shit or good players not worth the money and look where its got us. it doesn't suprise me at all that spurs are where they are, because they've adopted the exact same transfer policy of last season, which was catastrophic.

 

i thought we were going to have a good season until this shit happened, because for once we didn't act like a rich megastar while really being a desperate C list celeb looking for a few column inches to put in their portfolio.

 

we've got to realise that spending DOES NOT equal success.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This, is a reply to the above, I clicked on the wrong post when I repiled. My mistake.

 

Look. If 10 teams all spend 50m quid, do they all win the title, FA Cup or League Cup ?

 

But if another teams spends nowt or next to nowt, what are their chances of even catching these 10 ?

 

I can't put it any simpler than that. I don't understand why so many people don't understand this. Its kids stuff. ARe you in denial about something ?

 

Tell me why all the winning clubs have all spent money, if its unnecessary.

 

Blimey. How many more times ..........

 

[Guest optimistic nit]

i knew which post you were replying too.

[Thespence]

Some Arsenal model mind. Especially when their own manager disagrees with the way it has come about.

 

The Arsenal comment was clearly about bring through and buying youngsters as a model for the future, nothing to do with who goes out and gets them.

 

 

 

In the two transfer windows so far Wise has been around we have done f*** all like Arsenal, maybe it would of been 3rd time lucky.  I think someone may have got Arsenal & Spurs mixed up.