N'Zogbia: Lyon interested according to agent

[TRon]

Good stuff, Wullie. I'd have my two cents worth here but i'd just be repeating what you've said.

 

Quality young player with bags of raw talent. Pace, flair, shooting ability, reasonable crossing ability - he had the makings of a really good winger and proved so in his first season.

 

Aye his attitude has been a bit stroppy but look at the shite managers we've had man. Roeder didn't know whether he was coming or going and Allardye was a stubborn twat. I'd have loved to have seen Keegan get his teeth into Zoggy (no innuendoes) and turned him into the player he ought to be.

 

A stroppy character with less-than ideal attitude, but there's been fucking stacks of awesome players in this league through the years with shite attitudes. He's been woefully mismanaged. He's not the only one it's happened to, either. Robert, Bellamy, Kluivert, Luque, Dyer, off the top of my head - moody bastards but who were mint with the ball. The only difference between them and Zog is that we managed to peddle em cos they had reputations.

 

Sir Bobby Robson got the best out of them players cos he was a fucking brilliant manager and a fantastic man-to-man leader.

 

of all the managers we've had I'd have liked to see Zog under SBR rather than anyone else. Anyone who could put up with Robert's laziness because of what he brought to the table would have loved someone like Zog.

[KaKa]

The Zog was never stroppy when he was playing on the left wing consistently. He would have only got better with more games there.

 

I blame Shepherd personally. Went and got in Duff over Roeders head despite the fact we needed a couple of defenders and a striker at the time.

 

Duff has been no better than Zoggy at his poorest so it's been a bloody worthless move from day one.

[Yorkie]

Over Roeder's head?

[KaKa]

Over Roeder's head?

 

Did I stutter when i said it?

[Guest Heneage]

Tbf i'd be worried if N'zogbia was willing to just sit there when there was a chance he was better than the man in front.

[KaKa]

He was better than both Milner and Duff but found himself on the bench the majority of games, and it was pretty much down to the fact he wasn't English or Irish, which is pretty ridiculous.

[Wullie]

Over Roeder's head?

 

I believe Roeder has said as much.

[Yorkie]

Ah right.

 

Well Shepherd didn't pick him every week.

[oldtype]

Can't be bothered to do the quote box thing.

 

Zog was mediocre~s*** every time he came on the pitch in 06/07, look through old match threads and see some of the comments. If I recall correctly, he got plenty of time in the first half of the season until he fell out with roeder and barely played again for the rest of it.

 

Zog had exactly three good games in 07/08, the ones you mentioned: Bolton(H), Boro(A), and West Ham (H). I don't know what went on after that, whether he fell out with Allardyce, or went into "I don't want to be here anymore" mode, but he disappeared after that, going completely anonymous along with the rest of the useless fuckers.

 

LB is his secondary position. He plays it for the French U21 team. He should at least be moderately competent there. Seriously, "Ronaldo in goal?" have a word.

 

As incompetent as we may like to think Roeder/Allardyce/Kinnear are, they are professional football managers. They know far more about football than keyboard warriors like us ever will, and have access to training sessions, something we don't. I'm willing to concede that one manager may get something wrong that the forum gets right, but all three of them PLUS Kevin Keegan? Seriously?

 

Do you think Ronaldo would be the same player he is now if Fergie had binned him and replaced him with Damien Duff after his first season (where he showed little more than Charlie did bursting onto the scene here)?

 

Why do you think he didn't? Why hasn't Wenger replaced Fabregas with Nicky Butt?

 

Ronaldo had competition for places from players a million times better than Damien Duff. Fergie didn't just let him waltz into the first team every weekend on account of his "potential." Are you implying that the Zog had his development stunted because he had to compete with one other recognized left winger in the squad? Dear me

 

Fact is the Zog was given plenty of time in 2006/2007. If he had proven himself to have anywhere near Ronaldo or Fabregas' potential by delivering performances significantly better than those of Duff (which isn't even that hard,) he'd have gotten the place.

 

Four managers, one of them Kevin Keegan, thought that he didn't. In response, instead of meeting the challenge head-on and bringing up his performance levels, He threw a fit and stagnated. Which is why his career is now going nowhere.

 

If Ronaldo flipped and asked for a transfer when Park was picked ahead of him for a while in 2005/2006, where would he be now?

[ChezGiven]

Good stuff, Wullie. I'd have my two cents worth here but i'd just be repeating what you've said.

 

Quality young player with bags of raw talent. Pace, flair, shooting ability, reasonable crossing ability - he had the makings of a really good winger and proved so in his first season.

 

Aye his attitude has been a bit stroppy but look at the shite managers we've had man. Roeder didn't know whether he was coming or going and Allardye was a stubborn twat. I'd have loved to have seen Keegan get his teeth into Zoggy (no innuendoes) and turned him into the player he ought to be.

 

A stroppy character with less-than ideal attitude, but there's been fucking stacks of awesome players in this league through the years with shite attitudes. He's been woefully mismanaged. He's not the only one it's happened to, either. Robert, Bellamy, Kluivert, Luque, Dyer, off the top of my head - moody bastards but who were mint with the ball. The only difference between them and Zog is that we managed to peddle em cos they had reputations.

 

Sir Bobby Robson got the best out of them players cos he was a fucking brilliant manager and a fantastic man-to-man leader.

 

What a load of toss. Some pace, not blistering and a decent shot when given 5 yards space to connect with it. Runs with his head down, little awareness, and opts to carry the ball rather than pass and move into space countless times a match.

 

The fact that Charlie has been mentioned in the same breath as Ronaldo in this thread shows how over-rated he is by many.

 

 

[Wullie]

Can't be bothered to do the quote box thing.

 

Zog was mediocre~s*** every time he came on the pitch in 06/07, look through old match threads and see some of the comments. If I recall correctly, he got plenty of time in the first half of the season until he fell out with roeder and barely played again for the rest of it.

 

Zog had exactly three good games in 07/08, the ones you mentioned: Bolton(H), Boro(A), and West Ham (H). I don't know what went on after that, whether he fell out with Allardyce, or went into "I don't want to be here anymore" mode, but he disappeared after that, going completely anonymous along with the rest of the useless fuckers.

 

LB is his secondary position. He plays it for the French U21 team. He should at least be moderately competent there. Seriously, "Ronaldo in goal?" have a word.

 

As incompetent as we may like to think Roeder/Allardyce/Kinnear are, they are professional football managers. They know far more about football than keyboard warriors like us ever will, and have access to training sessions, something we don't. I'm willing to concede that one manager may get something wrong that the forum gets right, but all three of them PLUS Kevin Keegan? Seriously?

 

Do you think Ronaldo would be the same player he is now if Fergie had binned him and replaced him with Damien Duff after his first season (where he showed little more than Charlie did bursting onto the scene here)?

 

Why do you think he didn't? Why hasn't Wenger replaced Fabregas with Nicky Butt?

 

Ronaldo had competition for places from players a million times better than Damien Duff. Fergie didn't just let him waltz into the first team every weekend on account of his "potential." Are you implying that the Zog had his development stunted because he had to compete with one other recognized left winger in the squad? Dear me

 

Fact is the Zog was given plenty of time in 2006/2007. If he had proven himself to have anywhere near Ronaldo or Fabregas' potential by delivering performances significantly better than those of Duff (which isn't even that hard,) he'd have gotten the place.

 

Four managers, one of them Kevin Keegan, thought that he didn't. In response, instead of meeting the challenge head-on and bringing up his performance levels, He threw a fit and stagnated. Which is why his career is now going nowhere.

 

If Ronaldo flipped and asked for a transfer when Park was picked ahead of him for a while in 2005/2006, where would he be now?

 

Who was this competition and in which summer did Fergie buy them and immediately drop Ronaldo?

 

Ten games is not "plenty of time" and he put in some excellent performances that season (as I've pointed out but you ignored), only to be dropped every time afterwards. Even at his worst, he was infinitely better than the disgraceful Duff.

 

N'Zogbia didn't "flip and ask for a transfer" unless you're talking about three years later, in which case Ronaldo would be long gone.

[Wullie]

Good stuff, Wullie. I'd have my two cents worth here but i'd just be repeating what you've said.

 

Quality young player with bags of raw talent. Pace, flair, shooting ability, reasonable crossing ability - he had the makings of a really good winger and proved so in his first season.

 

Aye his attitude has been a bit stroppy but look at the shite managers we've had man. Roeder didn't know whether he was coming or going and Allardye was a stubborn twat. I'd have loved to have seen Keegan get his teeth into Zoggy (no innuendoes) and turned him into the player he ought to be.

 

A stroppy character with less-than ideal attitude, but there's been fucking stacks of awesome players in this league through the years with shite attitudes. He's been woefully mismanaged. He's not the only one it's happened to, either. Robert, Bellamy, Kluivert, Luque, Dyer, off the top of my head - moody bastards but who were mint with the ball. The only difference between them and Zog is that we managed to peddle em cos they had reputations.

 

Sir Bobby Robson got the best out of them players cos he was a fucking brilliant manager and a fantastic man-to-man leader.

 

What a load of toss. Some pace, not blistering and a decent shot when given 5 yards space to connect with it. Runs with his head down, little awareness, and opts to carry the ball rather than pass and move into space countless times a match.

 

The fact that Charlie has been mentioned in the same breath as Ronaldo in this thread shows how over-rated he is by many.

 

That last line is a re-writing of history based on what has happened since. Ronaldo was just as flawed in his first season as Charlie in his (Viana was thought the better player!). Players who don't play don't develop though and Charlie was not dropped on his form.

[Thespence]

The Zog was never stroppy when he was playing on the left wing consistently. He would have only got better with more games there.

 

I  remember him mentioning  that he was CM. He has always played LB for the French U21's.

[Yorkie]

It's wrong to say that Charlie has pace, flair and shooting ability*. Righto then. Deffo a load of toss, aye. Was definitely shit in that first season, n'all.

 

 

 

*Re the 'needs five yards to connect with it' thing... N'Zogbia's goals:

 

/ One against Dubnica which i honestly can't remember

/ One against Fulham which was a fucking superb free-kick

/ One against Blackburn, where he sprinted from the wing and rounded the GK

/ One against Portsmouth, which was an instinctive poach in the six-yard box

/ One against Aston Villa, which was an instinctive poach in the six-yard box

/ One against Sunderland, where he dribbled through three and finished

/ One against Bolton, which was a free-kick

/ One against Middlesbrough, which was a stunning long-range shot

/ One against West Ham, which was an instinctive poach in the six-yard box

 

Tbh, i wasn't going on about his long-range ability. I was going on about how he is around the box. Good, is the answer really. I should have said 'finishing'. Granted, he's hardly brilliant, but what you said is just rubbish basically.

 

Btw, the Ronaldo thing is perfectly relevant. The difference being Zog cost £120k whereas Ronaldo cost £12,000,000. Both failed to deliver consistently early in their career in England. One of them stayed in the team, though. It's not a comparison of the quality of player.

[Wullie]

Man that goal against Blackburn.

[madras]

It's wrong to say that Charlie has pace, flair and shooting ability*. Righto then. Deffo a load of toss, aye. Was definitely s*** in that first season, n'all.

 

 

 

*Re the 'needs five yards to connect with it' thing... N'Zogbia's goals:

 

/ One against Dubnica which i honestly can't remember

/ One against Fulham which was a f***ing superb free-kick

/ One against Blackburn, where he sprinted from the wing and rounded the GK

/ One against Portsmouth, which was an instinctive poach in the six-yard box

/ One against Aston Villa, which was an instinctive poach in the six-yard box

/ One against Sunderland, where he dribbled through three and finished

/ One against Bolton, which was a free-kick

/ One against Middlesbrough, which was a stunning long-range shot

/ One against West Ham, which was an instinctive poach in the six-yard box

 

Tbh, i wasn't going on about his long-range ability. I was going on about how he is around the box. Good, is the answer really. I should have said 'finishing'. Granted, he's hardly brilliant, but what you said is just rubbish basically.

 

Btw, the Ronaldo thing is perfectly relevant. The difference being Zog cost £120k whereas Ronaldo cost £12,000,000. Both failed to deliver consistently early in their career in England. One of them stayed in the team, though. It's not a comparison of the quality of player.

are we going to have a list and description of milners goals ?

[Yorkie]

Atleast i provided a case for my argument rather than "What a load of toss. He isn't this, he isn't that. End of."

[madras]

not really. chez also went on to say "Runs with his head down, little awareness, and opts to carry the ball rather than pass and move into space countless times a match."

 

brief but true.

[Yorkie]

Pretty soft argument, like. He definitely did all that 8 or 9 days ago against Wigan. I know, before you say it, yes you can reply with something similar to my argument, ie - "what about all the chances he didn't score..." Well - all of those goals came at a time when he was in the team, week-in week-out, in his actual position - aside from the early two under Sam. Which is kind of the overall point i'm trying to put across.

 

If he'd been in the team at left-wing all the time, he'd have been a better player for us.

[madras]

Pretty soft argument, like. He definitely did all that 8 or 9 days ago against Wigan. I know, before you say it, yes you can reply with something similar to my argument, ie - "what about all the chances he didn't score..." Well - all of those goals came at a time when he was in the team, week-in week-out, in his actual position - aside from the early two under Sam. Which is kind of the overall point i'm trying to put across.

 

If he'd been in the team at left-wing all the time, he'd have been a better player for us.

james milner has a similar ammount of nufc goals to his name,played out of position etc. don't forget n'zogbia played a few games there and he was the worst between himself,milner (out of position) and duff.

 

"his actual position" based on what ? what the player himself thinks (central midfield), or his international manager (left back),or where he done best for us........but 2005-06 isn't a position is it ?

[fredbob]

not really. chez also went on to say "Runs with his head down, little awareness, and opts to carry the ball rather than pass and move into space countless times a match."

 

brief but true.

 

So nothing fundamentally wrong with his game, all thing which can be worked on, Ronaldo had some similar problems in his first year but was given the environment and coaching to iron out those weaknesses.

 

I see no reason why Zog cant solve these problems, hes eternally confident in his abilty and always looking to attack.

[Yorkie]

You're splitting hairs now, man. His 'best' position, which you'd have to be daft to say is anything other than left-wing.

[fredbob]

Pretty soft argument, like. He definitely did all that 8 or 9 days ago against Wigan. I know, before you say it, yes you can reply with something similar to my argument, ie - "what about all the chances he didn't score..." Well - all of those goals came at a time when he was in the team, week-in week-out, in his actual position - aside from the early two under Sam. Which is kind of the overall point i'm trying to put across.

 

If he'd been in the team at left-wing all the time, he'd have been a better player for us.

james milner has a similar ammount of nufc goals to his name,played out of position etc. don't forget n'zogbia played a few games there and he was the worst between himself,milner (out of position) and duff.

 

"his actual position" based on what ? what the player himself thinks (central midfield), or his international manager (left back),or where he done best for us........but 2005-06 isn't a position is it ?

 

He's been here since he's 17 and has played under 6 managers? Id defy any player with decent potential to thrive in those conditions, he's also had to sit and watch crap in front of him and for at least 2 times in his career watch favouritism take his place in the team.

[madras]

not really. chez also went on to say "Runs with his head down, little awareness, and opts to carry the ball rather than pass and move into space countless times a match."

 

brief but true.

 

So nothing fundamentally wrong with his game, all thing which can be worked on, Ronaldo had some similar problems in his first year but was given the environment and coaching to iron out those weaknesses.

 

I see no reason why Zog cant solve these problems, hes eternally confident in his abilty and always looking to attack.

i see it the other way around. technique etc can be worked on. nouse,finding and using space,picking the right,simple pass etc is not so easily taught.

 

he has the raw ball skill type talent but is severly lacking  in the other major areas.

[fredbob]

not really. chez also went on to say "Runs with his head down, little awareness, and opts to carry the ball rather than pass and move into space countless times a match."

 

brief but true.

 

So nothing fundamentally wrong with his game, all thing which can be worked on, Ronaldo had some similar problems in his first year but was given the environment and coaching to iron out those weaknesses.

 

I see no reason why Zog cant solve these problems, hes eternally confident in his abilty and always looking to attack.

i see it the other way around. technique etc can be worked on. nouse,finding and using space,picking the right,simple pass etc is not so easily taught.

 

he has the raw ball skill type talent but is severly lacking  in the other major areas.

 

How do you explain Ronaldo's transformation from ball carrying antelope to the player he is today? With his decision making and less ball carrying and creativity.

 

I see a lot of similarities between present day Zog and 18 year old Ronaldo.

 

What areas do you think that Zog severly lacks in that cant be worked on to make him the player he could be? Assuming LW is his strongest position.