Dave Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm not convinced by Grant at all but for anyone advocating Kinnear over him: Put it this way, I'd rather stick with Kinnear for the time being than bring in Grant, give him 6 months to get to know the place and the squad before getting fired for it all going tits up. Which it would. I'm with you mate. And I think Kinnear is bloody terrible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm not convinced by Grant at all but for anyone advocating Kinnear over him: Put it this way, I'd rather stick with Kinnear for the time being than bring in Grant, give him 6 months to get to know the place and the squad before getting fired for it all going tits up. Which it would. I'm with you mate. And I think Kinnear is bloody terrible. What are you even basing this 'tits up' idea on!? Because he didn't win the Champions League? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Can't really understand it either. He's got a wealth of experience, was runner-up in the PL and the CL, and played very decent football. I can recall people saying he played nicer football than Mourinho did. This was all (bar Anelka) with someone else's squad. Aye, a pretty good squad granted, but it kinda diminishes this "oh, lets see him with a restricted chequebook" idea... he didn't spend anything. Like i say, he wouldn't be my first choice but if the only other alternative was sticking with the total idiot who's in charge now, then i'd go for Grant every time. And, with the greatest respect to his health, you can put aside his managerial ability and simply state that Kinnear isn't fit to manage a football club. We can't be relying on someone who has issues such as that. People are aiming for the stars if they're not accepting Grant. He'd keep us up, therefore - get him in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 He has one year's experience of club management at the top level, and I think that experience is a red herring anyway due to the coaching and playing staff and financial resourses at his disposal there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 He has one year's experience of club management at the top level, and I think that experience is a red herring anyway due to the coaching and playing staff and financial resourses at his disposal there. Do you reckon he'd keep us up, Dave? For the record - i think he'd accept a 'shorter'-term contract, like two years or something. Therefore it's essentially low risk for us. And i reckon he would keep us up in that space of time, which is basically why i see him above Kinnear and why i'd be for such an appointment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm not convinced by Grant at all but for anyone advocating Kinnear over him: Put it this way, I'd rather stick with Kinnear for the time being than bring in Grant, give him 6 months to get to know the place and the squad before getting fired for it all going tits up. Which it would. I'm with you mate. And I think Kinnear is bloody terrible. What are you even basing this 'tits up' idea on!? Because he didn't win the Champions League? Ok I'll come at you from a different angle since you're insisting on making me out to look like I missed the CL final or summat. Please list Avram Grant's unique qualities which qualify him to be our next manager, to move the club forward and aim to climb up the table again, back to where we were under SBR (and possibly beyond). I'll throw one in for free: - Better than Kinnear then what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I've no idea Yorkie; he has no experience of working with a shit squad trying to avoid relegation from the Premier League so I can't judge. To be honest I really don't know what we should do right now. I want more than yet another short-term manager, but we're in no position to convince anyone much better than Joe Kinnear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I've no idea Yorkie; he has no experience of working with a s*** squad trying to avoid relegation from the Premier League so I can't judge. To be honest I really don't know what we should do right now. I want more than yet another short-term manager, but we're in no position to convince anyone much better than Joe Kinnear. Simple as Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm not convinced by Grant at all but for anyone advocating Kinnear over him: Put it this way, I'd rather stick with Kinnear for the time being than bring in Grant, give him 6 months to get to know the place and the squad before getting fired for it all going tits up. Which it would. I'm with you mate. And I think Kinnear is bloody terrible. What are you even basing this 'tits up' idea on!? Because he didn't win the Champions League? Ok I'll come at you from a different angle since you're insisting on making me out to look like I missed the CL final or summat. Please list Avram Grant's unique qualities which qualify him to be our next manager, to move the club forward and aim to climb up the table again, back to where we were under SBR (and possibly beyond). I'll throw one in for free: - Better than Kinnear then what? I guess that's just the difference between you and me mate... at this point, where we are destined to go down with such a manager, that 'unique quality' is good enough for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm not convinced by Grant at all but for anyone advocating Kinnear over him: Put it this way, I'd rather stick with Kinnear for the time being than bring in Grant, give him 6 months to get to know the place and the squad before getting fired for it all going tits up. Which it would. I'm with you mate. And I think Kinnear is bloody terrible. What are you even basing this 'tits up' idea on!? Because he didn't win the Champions League? Ok I'll come at you from a different angle since you're insisting on making me out to look like I missed the CL final or summat. Please list Avram Grant's unique qualities which qualify him to be our next manager, to move the club forward and aim to climb up the table again, back to where we were under SBR (and possibly beyond). I'll throw one in for free: - Better than Kinnear then what? I guess that's just the difference between you and me mate... at this point, where we are destined to go down with such a manager, that 'unique quality' is good enough for me. Who was better? Souness? Roeder? Big Sam? Being better than Joe Kinnear isn't some miraculous quality. Grant offers nothing else other than being more up to date with today's game. IMO that's not enough, and if we're going down with Kinnear, we'd still go down or get dangerously close to it with Grant. The manager is the single most important person at the football club. Avram Grant doesn;t have the quality, bottle, personality or experience to be the most important person at a club like Newcastle United. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm not convinced by Grant at all but for anyone advocating Kinnear over him: Put it this way, I'd rather stick with Kinnear for the time being than bring in Grant, give him 6 months to get to know the place and the squad before getting fired for it all going tits up. Which it would. I'm with you mate. And I think Kinnear is bloody terrible. What are you even basing this 'tits up' idea on!? Because he didn't win the Champions League? Ok I'll come at you from a different angle since you're insisting on making me out to look like I missed the CL final or summat. Please list Avram Grant's unique qualities which qualify him to be our next manager, to move the club forward and aim to climb up the table again, back to where we were under SBR (and possibly beyond). I'll throw one in for free: - Better than Kinnear then what? I guess that's just the difference between you and me mate... at this point, where we are destined to go down with such a manager, that 'unique quality' is good enough for me. Who was better? Souness? Roeder? Big Sam? Being better than Joe Kinnear isn't some miraculous quality. Grant offers nothing else other than being more up to date with today's game. IMO that's not enough, and if we're going down with Kinnear, we'd still go down or get dangerously close to it with Grant. The manager is the single most important person at the football club. Avram Grant doesn;t have the quality, bottle, personality or experience to be the most important person at a club like Newcastle United. I agree with all you say there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm not convinced by Grant at all but for anyone advocating Kinnear over him: Put it this way, I'd rather stick with Kinnear for the time being than bring in Grant, give him 6 months to get to know the place and the squad before getting fired for it all going tits up. Which it would. I'm with you mate. And I think Kinnear is bloody terrible. What are you even basing this 'tits up' idea on!? Because he didn't win the Champions League? Ok I'll come at you from a different angle since you're insisting on making me out to look like I missed the CL final or summat. Please list Avram Grant's unique qualities which qualify him to be our next manager, to move the club forward and aim to climb up the table again, back to where we were under SBR (and possibly beyond). I'll throw one in for free: - Better than Kinnear then what? Its not that Im insisting on mentioning the Champions League, but more that in his one season with Chelsea he has shown more than any of the other candidates have, and he'd work in our system (even though I personally dont like it). The points are: - Better than Kinnear, because it needs reiterating. - Realistic, ie Better than the others that we can realistically go for - Experience in the Premier League over the likes of Zico, Deschamps - Experience dealing with the very best players (Chelsea) and those with limited capabilities (Israel) - Experience dealing with pressure and very high expectations - Experience working in the system that NUFC is employing Its also worth noting that Im not saying we'd reach SBR levels with Grant, but in our current situation we're unlikely to get anyone that is going to guarantee that. Even proven managers cant guarantee that, but in terms of risk assessment over the other possible candidates I'd have him over most. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm not convinced by Grant at all but for anyone advocating Kinnear over him: Put it this way, I'd rather stick with Kinnear for the time being than bring in Grant, give him 6 months to get to know the place and the squad before getting fired for it all going tits up. Which it would. I'm with you mate. And I think Kinnear is bloody terrible. What are you even basing this 'tits up' idea on!? Because he didn't win the Champions League? Ok I'll come at you from a different angle since you're insisting on making me out to look like I missed the CL final or summat. Please list Avram Grant's unique qualities which qualify him to be our next manager, to move the club forward and aim to climb up the table again, back to where we were under SBR (and possibly beyond). I'll throw one in for free: - Better than Kinnear then what? I guess that's just the difference between you and me mate... at this point, where we are destined to go down with such a manager, that 'unique quality' is good enough for me. Who was better? Souness? Roeder? Big Sam? Being better than Joe Kinnear isn't some miraculous quality. Grant offers nothing else other than being more up to date with today's game. IMO that's not enough, and if we're going down with Kinnear, we'd still go down or get dangerously close to it with Grant. The manager is the single most important person at the football club. Avram Grant doesn;t have the quality, bottle, personality or experience to be the most important person at a club like Newcastle United. EDIT: I think being better than Joe Kinnear is a miraculous quality when the other option is Joe Kinnear. Deluded to think that 'a club like Newcastle United' has more pressure or need for bottle than taking over from Jose Mourinho at Chelsea. Absolutely deluded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm not convinced by Grant at all but for anyone advocating Kinnear over him: Put it this way, I'd rather stick with Kinnear for the time being than bring in Grant, give him 6 months to get to know the place and the squad before getting fired for it all going tits up. Which it would. I'm with you mate. And I think Kinnear is bloody terrible. What are you even basing this 'tits up' idea on!? Because he didn't win the Champions League? Ok I'll come at you from a different angle since you're insisting on making me out to look like I missed the CL final or summat. Please list Avram Grant's unique qualities which qualify him to be our next manager, to move the club forward and aim to climb up the table again, back to where we were under SBR (and possibly beyond). I'll throw one in for free: - Better than Kinnear then what? I guess that's just the difference between you and me mate... at this point, where we are destined to go down with such a manager, that 'unique quality' is good enough for me. Who was better? Souness? Roeder? Big Sam? Being better than Joe Kinnear isn't some miraculous quality. Grant offers nothing else other than being more up to date with today's game. IMO that's not enough, and if we're going down with Kinnear, we'd still go down or get dangerously close to it with Grant. The manager is the single most important person at the football club. Avram Grant doesn;t have the quality, bottle, personality or experience to be the most important person at a club like Newcastle United. Deluded to think that 'a club like Newcastle United' has more pressure or need for bottle than taking over from Jose Mourinho at Chelsea. Absolutely deluded. Name one other club that saw the scenes on display at the home game against Hull. If you don't think our fans are high maintenance, then you need to look closer. Christ almighty I sound like NE5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm not convinced by Grant at all but for anyone advocating Kinnear over him: Put it this way, I'd rather stick with Kinnear for the time being than bring in Grant, give him 6 months to get to know the place and the squad before getting fired for it all going tits up. Which it would. I'm with you mate. And I think Kinnear is bloody terrible. What are you even basing this 'tits up' idea on!? Because he didn't win the Champions League? Ok I'll come at you from a different angle since you're insisting on making me out to look like I missed the CL final or summat. Please list Avram Grant's unique qualities which qualify him to be our next manager, to move the club forward and aim to climb up the table again, back to where we were under SBR (and possibly beyond). I'll throw one in for free: - Better than Kinnear then what? I guess that's just the difference between you and me mate... at this point, where we are destined to go down with such a manager, that 'unique quality' is good enough for me. Who was better? Souness? Roeder? Big Sam? Being better than Joe Kinnear isn't some miraculous quality. Grant offers nothing else other than being more up to date with today's game. IMO that's not enough, and if we're going down with Kinnear, we'd still go down or get dangerously close to it with Grant. The manager is the single most important person at the football club. Avram Grant doesn;t have the quality, bottle, personality or experience to be the most important person at a club like Newcastle United. Deluded to think that 'a club like Newcastle United' has more pressure or need for bottle than taking over from Jose Mourinho at Chelsea. Absolutely deluded. Name one other club that saw the scenes on display at the home game against Hull. If you don't think our fans are high maintenance, then you need to look closer. Christ almighty I sound like NE5 Arbitrary point because of the unique event leading up to it. Therefore there's no definitive answer to that. Just like there's no answer to naming another club that had the unique situation that Grant walked into at Chelsea. There is more to it than just fans too. Like the media, Chelseas previous success, Mourinhos character and the heirachy. The media were all over Grant because he wasn't the same character as Mourinho, and because Mourinho had been a massive success. That past success + the media + Abramovich + fans = pressure. Thats a lot to handle. Again, theyre unique situations, but there are similarities. Im not saying managing us would be a walk in the park, but I don't think it would be any harder EDIT: bring more pressure ... than the situation he was in with Chelsea. Taking over from Mourinho isn't hugely different to taking over from Keegan, theyre both huge icons for their respective clubs. And both were Big characters. The media are all over us for being a laughing stock as much as they were on Chelsea to mess up under Grant post Mourinho. Both have Owners who think they know best but probably dont, both have pressure, both require bottle. Our fans are vociferous, but where is our past success? our pressure to win the champions league from a multi-billionaire? Our pressures come from being in a perilous position under a s**** manager, from living in Keegans shadow and not moving on, from the Blind (Ashley) leading the stupid (Kinnear) Our dreams might be the same, but our needs are much more modest at the moment. In fact theyre very modest, when the alternative looks like being Kinnear. Thats why I think Grant would be a good appointment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 I'm not convinced by Grant at all but for anyone advocating Kinnear over him: Put it this way, I'd rather stick with Kinnear for the time being than bring in Grant, give him 6 months to get to know the place and the squad before getting fired for it all going tits up. Which it would. I'm with you mate. And I think Kinnear is bloody terrible. What are you even basing this 'tits up' idea on!? Because he didn't win the Champions League? Ok I'll come at you from a different angle since you're insisting on making me out to look like I missed the CL final or summat. Please list Avram Grant's unique qualities which qualify him to be our next manager, to move the club forward and aim to climb up the table again, back to where we were under SBR (and possibly beyond). I'll throw one in for free: - Better than Kinnear then what? I guess that's just the difference between you and me mate... at this point, where we are destined to go down with such a manager, that 'unique quality' is good enough for me. Who was better? Souness? Roeder? Big Sam? Being better than Joe Kinnear isn't some miraculous quality. Grant offers nothing else other than being more up to date with today's game. IMO that's not enough, and if we're going down with Kinnear, we'd still go down or get dangerously close to it with Grant. The manager is the single most important person at the football club. Avram Grant doesn;t have the quality, bottle, personality or experience to be the most important person at a club like Newcastle United. Deluded to think that 'a club like Newcastle United' has more pressure or need for bottle than taking over from Jose Mourinho at Chelsea. Absolutely deluded. Name one other club that saw the scenes on display at the home game against Hull. If you don't think our fans are high maintenance, then you need to look closer. Christ almighty I sound like NE5 Arbitrary point because of the unique event leading up to it. Therefore there's no definitive answer to that. Just like there's no answer to naming another club that had the unique situation that Grant walked into at Chelsea. There is more to it than just fans too. Like the media, Chelseas previous success, Mourinhos character and the heirachy. The media were all over Grant because he wasn't the same character as Mourinho, and because Mourinho had been a massive success. That past success + the media + Abramovich + fans = pressure. Thats a lot to handle. Again, theyre unique situations, but there are similarities. Im not saying managing us would be a walk in the park, but I don't think it would be any harder than the situation he was in with Chelsea. Taking over from Mourinho isn't hugely different to taking over from Keegan, theyre both huge icons for their respective clubs. And both were Big characters. The media are all over us for being a laughing stock as much as they were on Chelsea to mess up under Grant post Mourinho. Both have Owners who think they know best but probably dont, both have pressure, both require bottle. Our fans are vociferous, but where is our past success? our pressure to win the champions league from a multi-billionaire? Our pressures come from being in a perilous position under a s**** manager, from living in Keegans shadow and not moving on, from the Blind (Ashley) leading the stupid (Kinnear) Our dreams might be the same, but our needs are much more modest at the moment. In fact theyre very modest, when the alternative looks like being Kinnear. Thats why I think Grant would be a good appointment. I see what you're saying, and you're certainly not debating a bad point. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Ultimately you think Grant has got what it takes, I don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Can't believe this Avram stuff. Avram would not be able to inspire performances from our current set of players to stay up imo. Can't believe anyone would want him to come in at this point. We need someone with a lot more energy, drive and charisma right now in order to keep the players geared up for the fight we have on our hands. In a relegation scrap I think I roll with JK over Avram for sure. With a team of quality players who are comfortably a mid table side at worst, then I consider Grant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Can't believe this Avram stuff. Avram would not be able to inspire performances from our current set of players to stay up imo. Can't believe anyone would want him to come in at this point. We need someone with a lot more energy, drive and charisma right now in order to keep the players geared up for the fight we have on our hands. In a relegation scrap I think I roll with JK over Avram for sure. With a team of quality players who are comfortably a mid table side at worst, then I consider Grant. Yeah, because things are going so well. Why change it? The longer Ive been on the messageboard, the more Ive come round to the idea that you spout shite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Can't believe this Avram stuff. Avram would not be able to inspire performances from our current set of players to stay up imo. Can't believe anyone would want him to come in at this point. We need someone with a lot more energy, drive and charisma right now in order to keep the players geared up for the fight we have on our hands. In a relegation scrap I think I roll with JK over Avram for sure. With a team of quality players who are comfortably a mid table side at worst, then I consider Grant. Yeah, because things are going so well. Why change it? The longer Ive been on the messageboard, the more Ive come round to the idea that you spout s****. Where were we when JK took over and where are we now? You are very confused and unrealistic. Are you saying that if Avram had come in straight after KK and had to deal with exactly the same circumstances that JK did we would have been any better off? Why exactly would you think this? You say things haven't gone great, but in my view, with all things considered I would argue that they have could have been a hell of a lot worse. I know it's trendy to discount JK, but when I look at where we are right now we are in a much stronger position than the majority of our relegation rivals, and with a lot of our better players returning from injury we have every chance of easing away from our predicament. Jk came in and won the players over very quickly and ultimately that is what is the most important factor in our current state of being relegation candidates. Especially when you consider how easily this set of players seem to be willing to cave in and take any excuse not to compete. But whatever, you keep on rubbishing it all, but I'm not buying that shit because it is absolute bollocks.We actually look like we might be starting to get out of this mess and you think it's a great idea to now bring in Avram Grant out of nowhere because he has really shown he would be great for this club at this point in time. Nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted February 17, 2009 Share Posted February 17, 2009 Can't believe this Avram stuff. Avram would not be able to inspire performances from our current set of players to stay up imo. Can't believe anyone would want him to come in at this point. We need someone with a lot more energy, drive and charisma right now in order to keep the players geared up for the fight we have on our hands. In a relegation scrap I think I roll with JK over Avram for sure. With a team of quality players who are comfortably a mid table side at worst, then I consider Grant. Yeah, because things are going so well. Why change it? The longer Ive been on the messageboard, the more Ive come round to the idea that you spout s****. Where were we when JK took over and where are we now? You are very confused and unrealistic. Are you saying that if Avram had come in straight after KK and had to deal with exactly the same circumstances that JK did we would have been any better off? Why exactly would you think this? You say things haven't gone great, but in my view, with all things considered I would argue that they have could have been a hell of a lot worse. I know it's trendy to discount JK, but when I look at where we are right now we are in a much stronger position than the majority of our relegation rivals, and with a lot of our better players returning from injury we have every chance of easing away from our predicament. Jk came in and won the players over very quickly and ultimately that is what is the most important factor in our current state of being relegation candidates. Especially when you consider how easily this set of players seem to be willing to cave in and take any excuse not to compete. But whatever, you keep on rubbishing it all, but I'm not buying that s*** because it is absolute bollocks.We actually look like we might be starting to get out of this mess and you think it's a great idea to now bring in Avram Grant out of nowhere because he has really shown he would be great for this club at this point in time. Nonsense. I think I just overdosed on the letter "w" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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