Guest neesy111 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 attack is the best form of defence, if the opposition don't have the ball in our half they can't score would people agree this is the best way of defending a lead, especially when we can't defend one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Vey clear from this thread that most people will agree that martins' game has not improved since he joined us as was mentioned last week. He had better hope that he doesn't have an injury that can take away his extra yard of pace because he has little to offer over and above that. I wonder if he is so dumb that he considers himself the finished article? I don't think I'd trust our coaching staff to significantly improve any player. When was the last time it happened, Bellamy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniffer Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Terry MacDermott. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Vey clear from this thread that most people will agree that martins' game has not improved since he joined us as was mentioned last week. He had better hope that he doesn't have an injury that can take away his extra yard of pace because he has little to offer over and above that. I wonder if he is so dumb that he considers himself the finished article? I don't think I'd trust our coaching staff to significantly improve any player. When was the last time it happened, Bellamy? never, these apparent coaches seem to make players worse not better i.e. dyer, jenas, luque, boumsong Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Our biggest failing has maybe been not looking after players' development. And their fitness of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Our biggest failing has maybe been not looking after players' development. And their fitness of course. Forget improving a player, I'd take a manager who can pick a balanced bench and put out 11 players on the pitch who are capable of playing a game to suit their ability. What went on in that second half against Stoke was unforgiveably cack-handed IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniffer Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 And yet, we had SBR who didn't exactly improve a lot of young players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 And yet, we had SBR who didn't exactly improve a lot of young players. quite a lot of robson's signings were bad one's i.e. bramble, cort, viana, he already had a good team at the club with the signings of bellamy and robert making it into a very good team i.e. shearer, solano, dyer, speed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Vey clear from this thread that most people will agree that martins' game has not improved since he joined us as was mentioned last week. He had better hope that he doesn't have an injury that can take away his extra yard of pace because he has little to offer over and above that. I wonder if he is so dumb that he considers himself the finished article? Last season I remember Lee Dixon talking about Martins' development as a player on MOTD. He said that he is still the same player that he saw play against Arsenal at Highbury few years earlier.(When Inter won 3-0) He added that he is unlikely to improve and that's just the way he plays. I agree that he hasn't improved very much at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 tbf, he hasn't had the best of managers to improve him also, roeder was the only manager who understood how to play him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toptoon Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 While he's on he tends to keep the game stretched and 2/3 of theirs nervous as to his pace. I always start getting nervous when he comes off and the static Viduka comes on. We have to stop taking Martins off. It is unbelievably obvious that this is the case. There shoulden't really be any debate here. As soon as Martins goes off our ability to hit teams on the break all but disappears, this gifts teams the chance to throw extra bodies forward and put us under pressure . Viduka is no where near as good as some on here think he is. He is a fat, slow, has been, who can still finish if given a chance on a plate or some space to play in, but will never be up to much if you stick a half decent CB on him. Smith, Cacapa and to a lesser extent Butt andpossibly Duff too we need to get rid of in the summer too. For all the undoubted positive attributes Kinear brings to the table. The one big failing he seems to have (other than taking Martins off) seems to me to be he try's to keep the big names happy. i.e. Viduka doesn't deserve to be on over Martins. He seems to think Butt, Smith and Duff have big futures with us where as most of us with half a brain thinks keep Butt till his contract runs out in the summer then replace him with someone better with younger legs (and someone who can pass), Sell Smith to the highest bidder ASAP, Viduka, Cacapa and Duff see Butt and Smith. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Vey clear from this thread that most people will agree that martins' game has not improved since he joined us as was mentioned last week. He had better hope that he doesn't have an injury that can take away his extra yard of pace because he has little to offer over and above that. I wonder if he is so dumb that he considers himself the finished article? Last season I remember Lee Dixon talking about Martins' development as a player on MOTD. He said that he is still the same player that he saw play against Arsenal at Highbury few years earlier.(When Inter won 3-0) He added that he is unlikely to improve and that's just the way he plays. I agree that he hasn't improved very much at all. That's pretty much what I've been saying since we signed him. There's some players you get who you can nurture. Bellamy is a prime example. Martins though just doesn't seem to have the brain or overall technique to improve. Someone mentioned it last week, Owen's brain in Martins body would be the best striker in the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Vey clear from this thread that most people will agree that martins' game has not improved since he joined us as was mentioned last week. He had better hope that he doesn't have an injury that can take away his extra yard of pace because he has little to offer over and above that. I wonder if he is so dumb that he considers himself the finished article? Last season I remember Lee Dixon talking about Martins' development as a player on MOTD. He said that he is still the same player that he saw play against Arsenal at Highbury few years earlier.(When Inter won 3-0) He added that he is unlikely to improve and that's just the way he plays. I agree that he hasn't improved very much at all. That's pretty much what I've been saying since we signed him. There's some players you get who you can nurture. Bellamy is a prime example. Martins though just doesn't seem to have the brain or overall technique to improve. Someone mentioned it last week, Owen's brain in Martins body would be the best striker in the world. spot on opinion, the only thing still with martins is he has time on his side Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Vey clear from this thread that most people will agree that martins' game has not improved since he joined us as was mentioned last week. He had better hope that he doesn't have an injury that can take away his extra yard of pace because he has little to offer over and above that. I wonder if he is so dumb that he considers himself the finished article? Last season I remember Lee Dixon talking about Martins' development as a player on MOTD. He said that he is still the same player that he saw play against Arsenal at Highbury few years earlier.(When Inter won 3-0) He added that he is unlikely to improve and that's just the way he plays. I agree that he hasn't improved very much at all. That's pretty much what I've been saying since we signed him. There's some players you get who you can nurture. Bellamy is a prime example. Martins though just doesn't seem to have the brain or overall technique to improve. Someone mentioned it last week, Owen's brain in Martins body would be the best striker in the world. spot on opinion, the only thing still with martins is he has time on his side I just don't see it though. It's not like he's 19-20, he should be pretty close to the finished article now. I know some people use Drogba as an example of how you get late developers in the game, but Drogba didn't play in academies and have the training facilities with top coaches that Martins has had at Inter and us (less the top coaches bit ) until he went to Marseille which was later in his career. If Martins was going to develop as a lot on here hope and seem to expect, I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance Inter would have sold him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toptoon Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Martins is arguably our best outfield player. Certainly one of them and very effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Vey clear from this thread that most people will agree that martins' game has not improved since he joined us as was mentioned last week. He had better hope that he doesn't have an injury that can take away his extra yard of pace because he has little to offer over and above that. I wonder if he is so dumb that he considers himself the finished article? Last season I remember Lee Dixon talking about Martins' development as a player on MOTD. He said that he is still the same player that he saw play against Arsenal at Highbury few years earlier.(When Inter won 3-0) He added that he is unlikely to improve and that's just the way he plays. I agree that he hasn't improved very much at all. That's pretty much what I've been saying since we signed him. There's some players you get who you can nurture. Bellamy is a prime example. Martins though just doesn't seem to have the brain or overall technique to improve. Someone mentioned it last week, Owen's brain in Martins body would be the best striker in the world. spot on opinion, the only thing still with martins is he has time on his side I just don't see it though. It's not like he's 19-20, he should be pretty close to the finished article now. I know some people use Drogba as an example of how you get late developers in the game, but Drogba didn't play in academies and have the training facilities with top coaches that Martins has had at Inter and us (less the top coaches bit ) until he went to Marseille which was later in his career. If Martins was going to develop as a lot on here hope and seem to expect, I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance Inter would have sold him. Whether he's improved, or is capable of improving isn't really the point. He's quick and he creates and scores goals, and we don't have anyone else who we can replace him with just yet. My vote is to stick in a counter bid of £50 million for David Villa and then put Oba on the bench. Wake me up when that happens, until then I'd rather keep Martins on the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Vey clear from this thread that most people will agree that martins' game has not improved since he joined us as was mentioned last week. He had better hope that he doesn't have an injury that can take away his extra yard of pace because he has little to offer over and above that. I wonder if he is so dumb that he considers himself the finished article? Last season I remember Lee Dixon talking about Martins' development as a player on MOTD. He said that he is still the same player that he saw play against Arsenal at Highbury few years earlier.(When Inter won 3-0) He added that he is unlikely to improve and that's just the way he plays. I agree that he hasn't improved very much at all. That's pretty much what I've been saying since we signed him. There's some players you get who you can nurture. Bellamy is a prime example. Martins though just doesn't seem to have the brain or overall technique to improve. Someone mentioned it last week, Owen's brain in Martins body would be the best striker in the world. spot on opinion, the only thing still with martins is he has time on his side I just don't see it though. It's not like he's 19-20, he should be pretty close to the finished article now. I know some people use Drogba as an example of how you get late developers in the game, but Drogba didn't play in academies and have the training facilities with top coaches that Martins has had at Inter and us (less the top coaches bit ) until he went to Marseille which was later in his career. If Martins was going to develop as a lot on here hope and seem to expect, I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance Inter would have sold him. Whether he's improved, or is capable of improving isn't really the point. He's quick and he creates and scores goals, and we don't have anyone else who we can replace him with just yet. My vote is to stick in a counter bid of £50 million for David Villa and then put Oba on the bench. Wake me up when that happens, until then I'd rather keep Martins on the pitch. And until then I'd sooner have Owen & Viduka. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Vey clear from this thread that most people will agree that martins' game has not improved since he joined us as was mentioned last week. He had better hope that he doesn't have an injury that can take away his extra yard of pace because he has little to offer over and above that. I wonder if he is so dumb that he considers himself the finished article? Last season I remember Lee Dixon talking about Martins' development as a player on MOTD. He said that he is still the same player that he saw play against Arsenal at Highbury few years earlier.(When Inter won 3-0) He added that he is unlikely to improve and that's just the way he plays. I agree that he hasn't improved very much at all. That's pretty much what I've been saying since we signed him. There's some players you get who you can nurture. Bellamy is a prime example. Martins though just doesn't seem to have the brain or overall technique to improve. Someone mentioned it last week, Owen's brain in Martins body would be the best striker in the world. spot on opinion, the only thing still with martins is he has time on his side I just don't see it though. It's not like he's 19-20, he should be pretty close to the finished article now. I know some people use Drogba as an example of how you get late developers in the game, but Drogba didn't play in academies and have the training facilities with top coaches that Martins has had at Inter and us (less the top coaches bit ) until he went to Marseille which was later in his career. If Martins was going to develop as a lot on here hope and seem to expect, I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance Inter would have sold him. Whether he's improved, or is capable of improving isn't really the point. He's quick and he creates and scores goals, and we don't have anyone else who we can replace him with just yet. My vote is to stick in a counter bid of £50 million for David Villa and then put Oba on the bench. Wake me up when that happens, until then I'd rather keep Martins on the pitch. And until then I'd sooner have Owen & Viduka. I don't mind that either provided we can put a midfield on the pitch which can provide enough movement, work rate and creativity to give them chances and they deliver the goals. I think it was Kaka who said pretty much the same thing, but it means playing 90 mins on the front foot rather than 45. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Vey clear from this thread that most people will agree that martins' game has not improved since he joined us as was mentioned last week. He had better hope that he doesn't have an injury that can take away his extra yard of pace because he has little to offer over and above that. I wonder if he is so dumb that he considers himself the finished article? Last season I remember Lee Dixon talking about Martins' development as a player on MOTD. He said that he is still the same player that he saw play against Arsenal at Highbury few years earlier.(When Inter won 3-0) He added that he is unlikely to improve and that's just the way he plays. I agree that he hasn't improved very much at all. That's pretty much what I've been saying since we signed him. There's some players you get who you can nurture. Bellamy is a prime example. Martins though just doesn't seem to have the brain or overall technique to improve. Someone mentioned it last week, Owen's brain in Martins body would be the best striker in the world. spot on opinion, the only thing still with martins is he has time on his side I just don't see it though. It's not like he's 19-20, he should be pretty close to the finished article now. I know some people use Drogba as an example of how you get late developers in the game, but Drogba didn't play in academies and have the training facilities with top coaches that Martins has had at Inter and us (less the top coaches bit ) until he went to Marseille which was later in his career. If Martins was going to develop as a lot on here hope and seem to expect, I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance Inter would have sold him. Whether he's improved, or is capable of improving isn't really the point. He's quick and he creates and scores goals, and we don't have anyone else who we can replace him with just yet. My vote is to stick in a counter bid of £50 million for David Villa and then put Oba on the bench. Wake me up when that happens, until then I'd rather keep Martins on the pitch. And until then I'd sooner have Owen & Viduka. That's absolutely mental quite frankly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Vey clear from this thread that most people will agree that martins' game has not improved since he joined us as was mentioned last week. He had better hope that he doesn't have an injury that can take away his extra yard of pace because he has little to offer over and above that. I wonder if he is so dumb that he considers himself the finished article? Last season I remember Lee Dixon talking about Martins' development as a player on MOTD. He said that he is still the same player that he saw play against Arsenal at Highbury few years earlier.(When Inter won 3-0) He added that he is unlikely to improve and that's just the way he plays. I agree that he hasn't improved very much at all. That's pretty much what I've been saying since we signed him. There's some players you get who you can nurture. Bellamy is a prime example. Martins though just doesn't seem to have the brain or overall technique to improve. Someone mentioned it last week, Owen's brain in Martins body would be the best striker in the world. spot on opinion, the only thing still with martins is he has time on his side I just don't see it though. It's not like he's 19-20, he should be pretty close to the finished article now. I know some people use Drogba as an example of how you get late developers in the game, but Drogba didn't play in academies and have the training facilities with top coaches that Martins has had at Inter and us (less the top coaches bit ) until he went to Marseille which was later in his career. If Martins was going to develop as a lot on here hope and seem to expect, I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance Inter would have sold him. Whether he's improved, or is capable of improving isn't really the point. He's quick and he creates and scores goals, and we don't have anyone else who we can replace him with just yet. My vote is to stick in a counter bid of £50 million for David Villa and then put Oba on the bench. Wake me up when that happens, until then I'd rather keep Martins on the pitch. And until then I'd sooner have Owen & Viduka. That's absolutely mental quite frankly. A sick and twisted part of me wishes we were forced to witness this "dream duo" for a couple of games or so. That would soon learn some people on here really quickly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edd Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Vey clear from this thread that most people will agree that martins' game has not improved since he joined us as was mentioned last week. He had better hope that he doesn't have an injury that can take away his extra yard of pace because he has little to offer over and above that. I wonder if he is so dumb that he considers himself the finished article? I don't think I'd trust our coaching staff to significantly improve any player. When was the last time it happened, Bellamy? Owen. He might have lost his pace, but he's a better all round player than he was when he joined us. That probably says more about Owen's attitude than our coaching staff though, who I agree have been shit. Owen strikes me as the sort of player who will always wants to improve his game, whereas I look at the rest of our squad and many of them look happy with where they are. It shouldn't need coaching staff to tell someone like Oba to get his head up occasionally and to anticipate things like flick ons or rebounds off the keeper. He should have realised that himself by now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Owen looked a very good all round player when we signed him tbh, rememeber loads on here commenting on it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Vey clear from this thread that most people will agree that martins' game has not improved since he joined us as was mentioned last week. He had better hope that he doesn't have an injury that can take away his extra yard of pace because he has little to offer over and above that. I wonder if he is so dumb that he considers himself the finished article? Last season I remember Lee Dixon talking about Martins' development as a player on MOTD. He said that he is still the same player that he saw play against Arsenal at Highbury few years earlier.(When Inter won 3-0) He added that he is unlikely to improve and that's just the way he plays. I agree that he hasn't improved very much at all. That's pretty much what I've been saying since we signed him. There's some players you get who you can nurture. Bellamy is a prime example. Martins though just doesn't seem to have the brain or overall technique to improve. Someone mentioned it last week, Owen's brain in Martins body would be the best striker in the world. spot on opinion, the only thing still with martins is he has time on his side I just don't see it though. It's not like he's 19-20, he should be pretty close to the finished article now. I know some people use Drogba as an example of how you get late developers in the game, but Drogba didn't play in academies and have the training facilities with top coaches that Martins has had at Inter and us (less the top coaches bit ) until he went to Marseille which was later in his career. If Martins was going to develop as a lot on here hope and seem to expect, I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance Inter would have sold him. Whether he's improved, or is capable of improving isn't really the point. He's quick and he creates and scores goals, and we don't have anyone else who we can replace him with just yet. My vote is to stick in a counter bid of £50 million for David Villa and then put Oba on the bench. Wake me up when that happens, until then I'd rather keep Martins on the pitch. And until then I'd sooner have Owen & Viduka. That's absolutely mental quite frankly. A sick and twisted part of me wishes we were forced to witness this "dream duo" for a couple of games or so. That would soon learn some people on here really quickly. If only... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Oba is destined to spend some of his time looking a world beater and a bit more of his time looking like a carpet beater. Its not his fault he's dumb, its unfortunate the managers and coaches at NUFC have not brought him forward though in his development. I just cant envisage him ever scoring bags of goals in the Premier League. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Oba is destined to spend some of his time looking a world beater and a bit more of his time looking like a carpet beater. Its not his fault he's dumb, its unfortunate the managers and coaches at NUFC have not brought him forward though in his development. I just cant envisage him ever scoring bags of goals in the Premier League. I don't think it's anything to do with the coaching tbh. You'd have thought that in 5-6 years at Inter & Newcastle, if he was going to learn when and where to make his runs, control a ball, pass a ball, etc. he'd have done it by now. If it was a few tweaks here and there that he needed, then fair enough, but it's skills that you should have sewn up when you're 17-18 that Martins lacks in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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