Joe the Man

[OzzieMandias]

Kinnear is the same as Roeder because both men have found themselves in a job they are in no way whatsoever qualified for.

 

When you are not qualified to do a job, you fail. Its only a matter of time.

 

Classic circular reasoning, that.

 

If JFK wins us the FA cup this year I'll be the first to offer my mouth for the congratulatory blow job.

 

 

So every manager we've had since 1955 wasn't qualified for the job?

 

I can see what's going to happen next.

 

Pedro thinks he can, too.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Kinnear is the same as Roeder because both men have found themselves in a job they are in no way whatsoever qualified for.

 

When you are not qualified to do a job, you fail. Its only a matter of time.

 

Classic circular reasoning, that.

 

If JFK wins us the FA cup this year I'll be the first to offer my mouth for the congratulatory blow job.

 

 

So every manager we've had since 1955 wasn't qualified for the job?

 

I can see what's going to happen next.

 

Pedro thinks he can, too.

 

Weeeeeeey

[Mike]

It's very fitting that the club's colors are black and white.

[steve_69]

Look, sometimes the most unlikely managers succeed in the most unusual circumstances. He was nobody's first, second or even 50th choice but he's doing a great job - an unlikely manager succeeding in unusual circumstances. Why are you so sure we could get better and do better?

Plenty of people on this Forum would have walked over hot coals to get Mark Hughes as Keegan's replacement but he and his Man City team are spending Christmas in the relegation zone after spending a small fortune. We're sitting in 12th on a 6 game unbeaten run.

 

 

 

 

[OzzieMandias]

It's very fitting that the club's colors are black and white.

 

My local pub team's colours are black and white and they went through the whole of last season unbeaten. 

[Guest BooBoo]

Look, sometimes the most unlikely managers succeed in the most unusual circumstances. He was nobody's first, second or even 50th choice but he's doing a great job - an unlikely manager succeeding in unusual circumstances. Why are you so sure we could get better and do better?

Plenty of people on this Forum would have walked over hot coals to get Mark Hughes as Keegan's replacement but he and his Man City team are spending Christmas in the relegation zone after spending a small fortune. We're sitting in 12th on a 6 game unbeaten run.

 

 

 

 

 

Excellent post Steve. Would the Kinnear slaggers prefer the likes of Ince, Hughes or Keane? All who have done decidely worse despite glowing reputations?

[pedro111]

Sorry, I forgot, I already conceded, give JFK the job. Happy days.

[TRon]

Sorry, I forgot, I already conceded, give JFK the job. Happy days.

 

Has anybody given Kinnear the job long term?  No.

 

He got the job on a 4 week contract to start wiith. That was extended to an 8 week contract. Now he's got a contract to the end of the season, so what the fuck is your problem?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest BooBoo]

Sorry, I forgot, I already conceded, give JFK the job. Happy days.

 

Has anybody given Kinnear the job long term?  No.

 

He got the job on a 4 week contract to start wiith. That was extended to an 8 week contract. Now he's got a contract to the end of the season, so what the fuck is your problem?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the problem is that some nerds aren't happy unless they're ripping people apart.

 

Personally, i think it stems from overflowing bitterness from their real lives.

[pedro111]

Sorry, I forgot, I already conceded, give JFK the job. Happy days.

 

Has anybody given Kinnear the job long term?  No.

 

He got the job on a 4 week contract to start wiith. That was extended to an 8 week contract. Now he's got a contract to the end of the season, so what the f*** is your problem?

 

 

 

I was mearly putting up an argument against the title of this thread and stating that in my opinion, Joe is not 'The Man'.

 

I am as happy as larry that we won.

 

[pedro111]

Sorry, I forgot, I already conceded, give JFK the job. Happy days.

 

Has anybody given Kinnear the job long term?  No.

 

He got the job on a 4 week contract to start wiith. That was extended to an 8 week contract. Now he's got a contract to the end of the season, so what the f*** is your problem?

 

 

 

I think the problem is that some nerds aren't happy unless they're ripping people apart.

 

Personally, i think it stems from overflowing bitterness from their real lives.

 

 

, yes pedro111, renowned for constantly ripping people apart.

[cosmic]

I think a lot of problems with caretakers is simply that they're not managers. Roeder like many caretakers is a coach, he lacks the charisma and character to be able to inspire players as well as being able to bring them back down to earth. You get similar problems with directors of football who play the role, they're unable to lead.

 

Kinnear is different to Roeder because he is a manager and Roeder is a coach. The problem lies in the fact that Kinnear is an average manager.

 

Agree with your point that JFK has a presence about him that Roeder lacked. Whether he is good enough needs to be looked at in other ways :

 

1. Are we that attractive to "good" or "great" managers?

2. What truly differentiates a  great manager from an average one like JFK

3. We are no longer a big name in football and why do we think we can attract the best?

4. The fans & stadium have always been cited as reasons why we are still a big name but conversely, the same reasons also put undue pressure on the manager and the team?

5. With MA in charge, we don't have the clout or funds to buy top players any longer. Why come?

6. We have been spinning from scandal to internal strife for the longest time, where is the stability for a "good" manager to build his team?

[samag]

I think a lot of problems with caretakers is simply that they're not managers. Roeder like many caretakers is a coach, he lacks the charisma and character to be able to inspire players as well as being able to bring them back down to earth. You get similar problems with directors of football who play the role, they're unable to lea

 

Kinnear is different to Roeder because he is a manager and Roeder is a coach. The problem lies in the fact that Kinnear is an average manager.

 

Agree with your point that JFK has a presence about him that Roeder lacked. Whether he is good enough needs to be looked at in other ways :

 

1. Are we that attractive to "good" or "great" managers?

2. What truly differentiates a  great manager from an average one like JFK

3. We are no longer a big name in football and why do we think we can attract the best?

4. The fans & stadium have always been cited as reasons why we are still a big name but conversely, the same reasons also put undue pressure on the manager and the team?

5. With MA in charge, we don't have the clout or funds to buy top players any longer. Why come?

6. We have been spinning from scandal to internal strife for the longest time, where is the stability for a "good" manager to build his team?

i think you have made some good points there.

i am not sure we are in a postion to attract anyone that really is much better than Joe

[NE5]

He's Glen Roeder part 2. Good in the short term, probably a disaster in the long term. Joe himself said today we'd be nowhere without a good team. Watching us play the first thing you notice isnt tactics, its that the majority of the players we have are pretty damn good.

 

They weren't looking too clever when he first came in.

 

Aye, why was that again? Im sure something canny big had just happened.

 

Not the point. These good players were looking totally lost and lacked confidence, he's whipped them into shape and we look like a premiership football team again. Credit him for that.

 

Too right, I agree. Just like Roeder did. 

 

Some caretakers have done well, most don't, but its no reason to make a judgement either way. Every case is different.

 

 

 

My original point was that were doing well primarily because we have some very good players and Kinnears given them their confidence back imo, which he should be applauded for. Same as Roeder did in the short term and was applauded for. Long term I think tactics are going to have to come into it when our confidence is down and I dont think Kinnear has what it takes, again like Roeder. But like you say every case is different and time will tell.

 

Roeder + Shearer got results.

 

Roeder on his jack, didn't. It was obvious he lost the dressing room.

 

Has Kinnear lost the dressing room? The players seem to be responding well from what we've seen. Even the shit players.

 

The two aren't even remotely comparable other than the fact they were both appointed on temporary contracts initially.

 

Completely shoehorned argument trying to make out that they're one and same.

 

I don't disagree with what firetotheworks says, but I certainly agree with the bit in bold. I thought at the time that shearer looked completely at ease when he stood next to Roeder in that dugout. Doesn't mean he will be a good manager though, good managers need to spend money well, but he certainly appeared to have a big influence.

 

 

[Dokko]

I was very meh when he was appointed, but he's had my support since that day. I simply couldn't be arsed to get too angry about it, and for me the season was damage limitation when KK walked away again. Got some funny old results under his belt, has managed to get the defence playing the best i've seen easily this decade, which is crazy talk i know, but this lot look more solid than ever i can recall, beaten by single goals when we do lose and playing as a unit not one player carrying the back line ala Woodgate. While doing that playing some nice attacking football and lifting the morale in the stands, in the club and most certainly in the players, even Zoggy is smiling and getting back to the player we loved a while ago.

 

The man could even be persuading Ashley to bolster the squad in January and for me, its just a hunch but Owen is closer to signing a contract with us than ever before. I mean Owen won't leave the Country again as he can kiss goodbye to playing for England if he does, out of sight out of mind, the top 4 don't want him, most clubs cant afford him and the two that possibly do are below us in the table, and he won't be captain there.

 

If it wasn't for two equalizers from former defenders i'd say his spell in charge would have been top notch. He's made poor decisions, but it really does seem the guy picks up on it and learns, not too afraid to makes decisions and not too stubborn to see that he can get it wrong, i've not seen any manager like that here, ever, inc SBR who was as stubborn as a day is long.

 

He does however need to clam down and stop getting banned. Its beyond a joke. Not only has he a dodgy ticker, but obviously we need him there because whatever he says to the players, it works.

 

Maybe the experience he's built over the years, and the timing of the club's demise is perfect for Kinnear. Maybe right now he is what we need? I'm hoping more than anything the big job for him has come at the right time in his career, and this unexpected series of events sees us benefiting for a change, and we got the right man, it just happens it's not the type we usually go for.

 

With all this in to account, its a very difficult question of whether should he be made permanent? The players seem to get on with him, and the owner loves him and he can get on in this set up, and we've seen what happens when that doesn't go, managers lose the dressing room (Allardyce) or the owner and system doesn't fit (Keegan) can we afford to gamble for another man to come in only to have another unseen problem arise, or one of old take us back to 4 months ago?

 

As long as the guy keeps getting results, and can add to the squad then i'm happy for him to be here. There's no rush in replacing him unless the club is sold, and a world class manager is brought in and will get 5+ years to change the club around for life. otherwise, you'll do Joe.

[Guest neesy111]

He's Glen Roeder part 2. Good in the short term, probably a disaster in the long term. Joe himself said today we'd be nowhere without a good team. Watching us play the first thing you notice isnt tactics, its that the majority of the players we have are pretty damn good.

 

They weren't looking too clever when he first came in.

 

Aye, why was that again? Im sure something canny big had just happened.

 

Not the point. These good players were looking totally lost and lacked confidence, he's whipped them into shape and we look like a premiership football team again. Credit him for that.

 

Too right, I agree. Just like Roeder did. 

 

Some caretakers have done well, most don't, but its no reason to make a judgement either way. Every case is different.

 

 

 

My original point was that were doing well primarily because we have some very good players and Kinnears given them their confidence back imo, which he should be applauded for. Same as Roeder did in the short term and was applauded for. Long term I think tactics are going to have to come into it when our confidence is down and I dont think Kinnear has what it takes, again like Roeder. But like you say every case is different and time will tell.

 

Roeder + Shearer got results.

 

Roeder on his jack, didn't. It was obvious he lost the dressing room.

 

Has Kinnear lost the dressing room? The players seem to be responding well from what we've seen. Even the shit players.

 

The two aren't even remotely comparable other than the fact they were both appointed on temporary contracts initially.

 

Completely shoehorned argument trying to make out that they're one and same.

 

I don't disagree with what firetotheworks says, but I certainly agree with the bit in bold. I thought at the time that shearer looked completely at ease when he stood next to Roeder in that dugout. Doesn't mean he will be a good manager though, good managers need to spend money well, but he certainly appeared to have a big influence.

 

 

 

the problem with roeder was he didn't get any money

 

shepherd bought him duff for 5 million when malbranque was the one roeder wanted

 

and we had to buy martins as we didn't have any other strikers

[TRon]

He's Glen Roeder part 2. Good in the short term, probably a disaster in the long term. Joe himself said today we'd be nowhere without a good team. Watching us play the first thing you notice isnt tactics, its that the majority of the players we have are pretty damn good.

 

They weren't looking too clever when he first came in.

 

Aye, why was that again? Im sure something canny big had just happened.

 

Not the point. These good players were looking totally lost and lacked confidence, he's whipped them into shape and we look like a premiership football team again. Credit him for that.

 

Too right, I agree. Just like Roeder did. 

 

Some caretakers have done well, most don't, but its no reason to make a judgement either way. Every case is different.

 

 

 

My original point was that were doing well primarily because we have some very good players and Kinnears given them their confidence back imo, which he should be applauded for. Same as Roeder did in the short term and was applauded for. Long term I think tactics are going to have to come into it when our confidence is down and I dont think Kinnear has what it takes, again like Roeder. But like you say every case is different and time will tell.

 

Roeder + Shearer got results.

 

Roeder on his jack, didn't. It was obvious he lost the dressing room.

 

Has Kinnear lost the dressing room? The players seem to be responding well from what we've seen. Even the shit players.

 

The two aren't even remotely comparable other than the fact they were both appointed on temporary contracts initially.

 

Completely shoehorned argument trying to make out that they're one and same.

 

I don't disagree with what firetotheworks says, but I certainly agree with the bit in bold. I thought at the time that shearer looked completely at ease when he stood next to Roeder in that dugout. Doesn't mean he will be a good manager though, good managers need to spend money well, but he certainly appeared to have a big influence.

 

 

 

the problem with roeder was he didn't get any money

 

shepherd bought him duff for 5 million when malbranque was the one roeder wanted

 

and we had to buy martins as we didn't have any other strikers

 

It wouldn't have made any difference how much money Roeder was given, he carried no authority in the dressing room and by trying to act tough with younger squad players while kissing arse of the big boys he lost all respect. One of the reasons I think Shearer might make a good manager is because he has the what Roeder lacked...a spine.

 

[ChezGiven]

As a whole, he's done OK up to now. We're a bit too close for comfort (i know, a lot of clubs are), but with the standard of players we've got it's taken a lot longer than it should have to gain some breathing space. I certainly won't be ashamed for wanting rid of him after the farces that were Fulham, Wigan and especially Stoke - however i'm warming to him a bit as he seems to have screwed his head on a bit more tightly since those mistakes, which is refreshing. Still a poor manager in my book, and i still whince a bit at the thought of him tampering with our very good squad in January, but going into Christmas sat in 12th leaves me feeling fairly content about the guy.

 

Fulham are decent at home and better teams than us have lost there this season, the players went to sleep for the Wigan equaliser, not sure how the manager can be blamed for that. On the basis that we played the best football of the season in the first half against Stoke, not sure how you conclude so easily he is a poor manager?

[hakka]

I was very meh when he was appointed, but he's had my support since that day. I simply couldn't be arsed to get too angry about it, and for me the season was damage limitation when KK walked away again. Got some funny old results under his belt, has managed to get the defence playing the best i've seen easily this decade, which is crazy talk i know, but this lot look more solid than ever i can recall, beaten by single goals when we do lose and playing as a unit not one player carrying the back line ala Woodgate. While doing that playing some nice attacking football and lifting the morale in the stands, in the club and most certainly in the players, even Zoggy is smiling and getting back to the player we loved a while ago.

 

The man could even be persuading Ashley to bolster the squad in January and for me, its just a hunch but Owen is closer to signing a contract with us than ever before. I mean Owen won't leave the Country again as he can kiss goodbye to playing for England if he does, out of sight out of mind, the top 4 don't want him, most clubs cant afford him and the two that possibly do are below us in the table, and he won't be captain there.

 

If it wasn't for two equalizers from former defenders i'd say his spell in charge would have been top notch. He's made poor decisions, but it really does seem the guy picks up on it and learns, not too afraid to makes decisions and not too stubborn to see that he can get it wrong, i've not seen any manager like that here, ever, inc SBR who was as stubborn as a day is long.

 

He does however need to clam down and stop getting banned. Its beyond a joke. Not only has he a dodgy ticker, but obviously we need him there because whatever he says to the players, it works.

 

Maybe the experience he's built over the years, and the timing of the club's demise is perfect for Kinnear. Maybe right now he is what we need? I'm hoping more than anything the big job for him has come at the right time in his career, and this unexpected series of events sees us benefiting for a change, and we got the right man, it just happens it's not the type we usually go for.

 

With all this in to account, its a very difficult question of whether should he be made permanent? The players seem to get on with him, and the owner loves him and he can get on in this set up, and we've seen what happens when that doesn't go, managers lose the dressing room (Allardyce) or the owner and system doesn't fit (Keegan) can we afford to gamble for another man to come in only to have another unseen problem arise, or one of old take us back to 4 months ago?

 

As long as the guy keeps getting results, and can add to the squad then i'm happy for him to be here. There's no rush in replacing him unless the club is sold, and a world class manager is brought in and will get 5+ years to change the club around for life. otherwise, you'll do Joe.

 

Great post.  i've been reading through this thread and seen some good stuff, some not so great (imo).  This post is pretty much how I feel too.

[gray]

Proper gutsy to take the LB and put Duff on (basically sent him "in the hole") when so many times this season we've let goals in in the final seconds.

[TRon]

As a whole, he's done OK up to now. We're a bit too close for comfort (i know, a lot of clubs are), but with the standard of players we've got it's taken a lot longer than it should have to gain some breathing space. I certainly won't be ashamed for wanting rid of him after the farces that were Fulham, Wigan and especially Stoke - however i'm warming to him a bit as he seems to have screwed his head on a bit more tightly since those mistakes, which is refreshing. Still a poor manager in my book, and i still whince a bit at the thought of him tampering with our very good squad in January, but going into Christmas sat in 12th leaves me feeling fairly content about the guy.

 

Fulham are decent at home and better teams than us have lost there this season, the players went to sleep for the Wigan equaliser, not sure how the manager can be blamed for that. On the basis that we played the best football of the season in the first half against Stoke, not sure how you conclude so easily he is a poor manager?

 

I get the feeling a lot of younger fans don't really know much about Kinnear, they might be surprised he was voted Manager of the year during his time at Wimbledon. He might not be a big name, but he has been around and has probably forgotten more stuff than Ince and Roy Keane know put together.

 

That doesn't mean he's a fantastic manager, but considering our state of limbo at the time he was a good choice. Who's to say once he's gone the next big name manager won't turn out like Ramos?

 

[NG32]

Proper gutsy to take the LB and put Duff on (basically sent him "in the hole") when so many times this season we've let goals in in the final seconds.

 

The guy infront of us reckons Enrique asked to come off, so JK had no other choice but to put Zog at left back and Duff ahead of him.

[David Icke - Son of God]

JFK isn't a long term solution but he needs to be applauded for what he has managed to achieve so far. We're very hard to beat, the defence looks solid, we seem to create a bit despite lacking a playmaker and going forward we don't look completely toothless up top. The fact he's been out of the game for so long means he's effectively learning on the job and tactically he's improving as he gets to know the players.

 

He also seems to know what we need to bring in in the New Year too although whether we get said players is another thing completely as i'm skeptical he'll be allowed to wheel and deal without Wise going behind his back.

 

Oh, and Pedro is clearly a fucking gonk. Has anyone actually said they want him here long term?

[Shearer9]

I was very meh when he was appointed, but he's had my support since that day. I simply couldn't be arsed to get too angry about it, and for me the season was damage limitation when KK walked away again. Got some funny old results under his belt, has managed to get the defence playing the best i've seen easily this decade, which is crazy talk i know, but this lot look more solid than ever i can recall, beaten by single goals when we do lose and playing as a unit not one player carrying the back line ala Woodgate. While doing that playing some nice attacking football and lifting the morale in the stands, in the club and most certainly in the players, even Zoggy is smiling and getting back to the player we loved a while ago.

 

The man could even be persuading Ashley to bolster the squad in January and for me, its just a hunch but Owen is closer to signing a contract with us than ever before. I mean Owen won't leave the Country again as he can kiss goodbye to playing for England if he does, out of sight out of mind, the top 4 don't want him, most clubs cant afford him and the two that possibly do are below us in the table, and he won't be captain there.

 

If it wasn't for two equalizers from former defenders i'd say his spell in charge would have been top notch. He's made poor decisions, but it really does seem the guy picks up on it and learns, not too afraid to makes decisions and not too stubborn to see that he can get it wrong, i've not seen any manager like that here, ever, inc SBR who was as stubborn as a day is long.

 

He does however need to clam down and stop getting banned. Its beyond a joke. Not only has he a dodgy ticker, but obviously we need him there because whatever he says to the players, it works.

 

Maybe the experience he's built over the years, and the timing of the club's demise is perfect for Kinnear. Maybe right now he is what we need? I'm hoping more than anything the big job for him has come at the right time in his career, and this unexpected series of events sees us benefiting for a change, and we got the right man, it just happens it's not the type we usually go for.

 

With all this in to account, its a very difficult question of whether should he be made permanent? The players seem to get on with him, and the owner loves him and he can get on in this set up, and we've seen what happens when that doesn't go, managers lose the dressing room (Allardyce) or the owner and system doesn't fit (Keegan) can we afford to gamble for another man to come in only to have another unseen problem arise, or one of old take us back to 4 months ago?

 

As long as the guy keeps getting results, and can add to the squad then i'm happy for him to be here. There's no rush in replacing him unless the club is sold, and a world class manager is brought in and will get 5+ years to change the club around for life. otherwise, you'll do Joe.

 

Great post.  i've been reading through this thread and seen some good stuff, some not so great (imo).  This post is pretty much how I feel too.

I think the one really good point you make is that he does seem to learn.  Basing so much of our offense around counter attacks with Martins, now playing N'Zogbia instead of Duff, and hopefully won't slot Taylor straight back in there. 

 

I just don't think he should be permanent manager though, he can probably walk away a cult hero from Newcastle and go and get a decent job in the championship, probably even get somebody promoted.  I want to avoid another Roeder.  Plus I don't trust his ability in the transfer market, he's been out of the game way too long and this squad has needed some serious rebuilding for a few years now, I'd really like to see someone with European experience and a list of contacts he can rely on. 

[David Icke - Son of God]

I was very meh when he was appointed, but he's had my support since that day. I simply couldn't be arsed to get too angry about it, and for me the season was damage limitation when KK walked away again. Got some funny old results under his belt, has managed to get the defence playing the best i've seen easily this decade, which is crazy talk i know, but this lot look more solid than ever i can recall, beaten by single goals when we do lose and playing as a unit not one player carrying the back line ala Woodgate. While doing that playing some nice attacking football and lifting the morale in the stands, in the club and most certainly in the players, even Zoggy is smiling and getting back to the player we loved a while ago.

 

The man could even be persuading Ashley to bolster the squad in January and for me, its just a hunch but Owen is closer to signing a contract with us than ever before. I mean Owen won't leave the Country again as he can kiss goodbye to playing for England if he does, out of sight out of mind, the top 4 don't want him, most clubs cant afford him and the two that possibly do are below us in the table, and he won't be captain there.

 

If it wasn't for two equalizers from former defenders i'd say his spell in charge would have been top notch. He's made poor decisions, but it really does seem the guy picks up on it and learns, not too afraid to makes decisions and not too stubborn to see that he can get it wrong, i've not seen any manager like that here, ever, inc SBR who was as stubborn as a day is long.

 

He does however need to clam down and stop getting banned. Its beyond a joke. Not only has he a dodgy ticker, but obviously we need him there because whatever he says to the players, it works.

 

Maybe the experience he's built over the years, and the timing of the club's demise is perfect for Kinnear. Maybe right now he is what we need? I'm hoping more than anything the big job for him has come at the right time in his career, and this unexpected series of events sees us benefiting for a change, and we got the right man, it just happens it's not the type we usually go for.

 

With all this in to account, its a very difficult question of whether should he be made permanent? The players seem to get on with him, and the owner loves him and he can get on in this set up, and we've seen what happens when that doesn't go, managers lose the dressing room (Allardyce) or the owner and system doesn't fit (Keegan) can we afford to gamble for another man to come in only to have another unseen problem arise, or one of old take us back to 4 months ago?

 

As long as the guy keeps getting results, and can add to the squad then i'm happy for him to be here. There's no rush in replacing him unless the club is sold, and a world class manager is brought in and will get 5+ years to change the club around for life. otherwise, you'll do Joe.

 

Great post.  i've been reading through this thread and seen some good stuff, some not so great (imo).  This post is pretty much how I feel too.

I think the one really good point you make is that he does seem to learn.  Basing so much of our offense around counter attacks with Martins, now playing N'Zogbia instead of Duff, and hopefully won't slot Taylor straight back in there. 

 

I just don't think he should be permanent manager though, he can probably walk away a cult hero from Newcastle and go and get a decent job in the championship, probably even get somebody promoted.  I want to avoid another Roeder.  Plus I don't trust his ability in the transfer market, he's been out of the game way too long and this squad has needed some serious rebuilding for a few years now, I'd really like to see someone with European experience and a list of contacts he can rely on. 

 

http://www.magpieszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/08052008_kevin-keegan.jpg