themanupstairs Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 As a football fan there's nothing else I need or want to consider. Us losing good players is a bad thing, couldn't give a f*** what it does for the bank balance. Nobody answered in the Enrique thread; why don't the clubs with ambition just buy these better, cheaper players? Before madras pipes up this isn't me saying we should spend more than we can afford to, Carroll and Enrique are/were already here. I think the above post is one of the best in football chat for quite some time. THIS imo, as Dave put it so well, is the crux of the issue. We had/have these players on contracts at the club. We should only sell when we can no longer afford to pay them, or if they are no longer good enough (assuming of course, the ambition, which the club says is there, is actually there). It does hurt massively to see Carroll in a Liverpool shirt, nevermind him scoring 2 belters last night. I was watching the game with about 10 of my mates (all Liverpool supporters), and before the game started all they could talk about was how they hoped Man Utd would thrash Chelsea and knock them, as they didn't want Torres to enjoy his time at his new club. So much vitriol. By the end of the game all they could talk about was the genius signing of Carroll and what a great player he is etc... Jammy Twats the lot of them Genuine question, can you address the issue of finances at all? Or are you really able to just ignore what is happening financially and think purely about what happens on the pitch? How do you mean can I address them? As in am I taking finances into account? If the situation was so dire, and the 35m was needed to keep us from bankruptcy, then I would understand it. And if this were the case, I would expect the club to come out and express it. What we do have is uncertainty, even on Pardew's part, where even he is not sure whether this money will be spent "to a satisfactory level" that would make swallowing the pill of AC's sale easier, or even better, to move the club forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 As a football fan there's nothing else I need or want to consider. Us losing good players is a bad thing, couldn't give a f*** what it does for the bank balance. Nobody answered in the Enrique thread; why don't the clubs with ambition just buy these better, cheaper players? Before madras pipes up this isn't me saying we should spend more than we can afford to, Carroll and Enrique are/were already here. I think the above post is one of the best in football chat for quite some time. THIS imo, as Dave put it so well, is the crux of the issue. We had/have these players on contracts at the club. We should only sell when we can no longer afford to pay them, or if they are no longer good enough (assuming of course, the ambition, which the club says is there, is actually there). It does hurt massively to see Carroll in a Liverpool shirt, nevermind him scoring 2 belters last night. I was watching the game with about 10 of my mates (all Liverpool supporters), and before the game started all they could talk about was how they hoped Man Utd would thrash Chelsea and knock them out, as they didn't want Torres to enjoy his time at his new club. So much vitriol. By the end of the game all they could talk about was the genius signing of Carroll and what a great player he is etc... Jammy Twats the lot of them, and they feel the same confusion regarding Torres as we do with regards to Carroll. At least they have a new hero, and we have an ambiguity that will feel like an eternity until the summer comes and we see where we really stand in terms of who actually got the better deal. You need new mates Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 As a football fan there's nothing else I need or want to consider. Us losing good players is a bad thing, couldn't give a f*** what it does for the bank balance. Nobody answered in the Enrique thread; why don't the clubs with ambition just buy these better, cheaper players? Before madras pipes up this isn't me saying we should spend more than we can afford to, Carroll and Enrique are/were already here. I think the above post is one of the best in football chat for quite some time. THIS imo, as Dave put it so well, is the crux of the issue. We had/have these players on contracts at the club. We should only sell when we can no longer afford to pay them, or if they are no longer good enough (assuming of course, the ambition, which the club says is there, is actually there). It does hurt massively to see Carroll in a Liverpool shirt, nevermind him scoring 2 belters last night. I was watching the game with about 10 of my mates (all Liverpool supporters), and before the game started all they could talk about was how they hoped Man Utd would thrash Chelsea and knock them, as they didn't want Torres to enjoy his time at his new club. So much vitriol. By the end of the game all they could talk about was the genius signing of Carroll and what a great player he is etc... Jammy Twats the lot of them Genuine question, can you address the issue of finances at all? Or are you really able to just ignore what is happening financially and think purely about what happens on the pitch? How do you mean can I address them? As in am I taking finances into account? If the situation was so dire, and the 35m was needed to keep us from bankruptcy, then I would understand it. And if this were the case, I would expect the club to come out and express it. What we do have is uncertainty, even on Pardew's part, where even he is not sure whether this money will be spent "to a satisfactory level" that would make swallowing the pill of AC's sale easier, or even better, to move the club forward. What I mean is that you singled out Dave's post, where he said he didn't care about the bank balance, as being one of the best you'd seen for ages. I took from that that you had a similar view (i.e. only caring about the team and not the club's financial health). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Relative peanuts obviously. A new signing of Carroll's calibre, you're looking at 80k a week minimum. We got Ben Arfa for about 6 million, and on less than £80k a week. The kid has more talent in his little toe man. I'm obviosly not expecting another Ben Arfa-esque signing any time soon, but it goes to show it's not immpossible, and also what a ridiculous sum of money we got for AC. Invested wisely and it could be worth it 10 times over, he is only 1 player after all. Just how much have you seen of Ben Arfa? Probably about as much as any of us have seen of AC at a truly competative level Speak for yourself. I watched him play at least every other week for two years, whilst he was at Marseille. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The problem is that people think that there's only two ways of doing things: selling all your best players every time to turn a profit or never selling any good player for any price and only looking to build. The reality isn't either of these things. Rather, the best way to run a football club is to make good decisions on a case-by-case basis depending on the situation. Unfortunately this sort of polarization is basically what every debate on this forum is forcibly distilled down to. (He's not brilliant therefore he's complete shit, you don't back Keegan 100% therefore you're an Ashley apologist etc.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Relative peanuts obviously. A new signing of Carroll's calibre, you're looking at 80k a week minimum. We got Ben Arfa for about 6 million, and on less than £80k a week. The kid has more talent in his little toe man. I'm obviosly not expecting another Ben Arfa-esque signing any time soon, but it goes to show it's not immpossible, and also what a ridiculous sum of money we got for AC. Invested wisely and it could be worth it 10 times over, he is only 1 player after all. Just how much have you seen of Ben Arfa? Probably about as much as any of us have seen of AC at a truly competative level Speak for yourself. I watched him play at least every other week for two years, whilst he was at Marseille. How good do you think he is? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The problem is that people think that there's only two ways of doing things: selling all your best players every time to turn a profit or never selling any good player for any price and only looking to build. The reality isn't either of these things. Rather, the best way to run a football club is to make good decisions on a case-by-case basis depending on the situation. Unfortunately this sort of polarization is basically what every debate on this forum is forcibly distilled down to. (He's not brilliant therefore he's complete shit, you don't back Keegan 100% therefore you're an Ashley apologist etc.) Well exactly, I'm definitely not arguing that we should sell every player that we could make a profit on. All I'm saying is that £35m was a hell of a big boost to our income at a time when our income really needed a boost. And also that you have to consider more than just "will we get a replacement for the money who's as good". It's far too simplistic to think like that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The problem is that people think that there's only two ways of doing things: selling all your best players every time to turn a profit or never selling any good player for any price and only looking to build. The reality isn't either of these things. Rather, the best way to run a football club is to make good decisions on a case-by-case basis depending on the situation. Unfortunately this sort of polarization is basically what every debate on this forum is forcibly distilled down to. (He's not brilliant therefore he's complete s***, you don't back Keegan 100% therefore you're an Ashley apologist etc.) Well exactly, I'm definitely not arguing that we should sell every player that we could make a profit on. All I'm saying is that £35m was a hell of a big boost to our income at a time when our income really needed a boost. And I'm not implying that you're arguing these things. A lot of people would be happy to go ahead and assume that you are though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 The problem is that people think that there's only two ways of doing things: selling all your best players every time to turn a profit or never selling any good player for any price and only looking to build. The reality isn't either of these things. Rather, the best way to run a football club is to make good decisions on a case-by-case basis depending on the situation. Unfortunately this sort of polarization is basically what every debate on this forum is forcibly distilled down to. (He's not brilliant therefore he's complete s***, you don't back Keegan 100% therefore you're an Ashley apologist etc.) Well exactly, I'm definitely not arguing that we should sell every player that we could make a profit on. All I'm saying is that £35m was a hell of a big boost to our income at a time when our income really needed a boost. And I'm not implying that you're arguing these things. A lot of people would be happy to go ahead and assume that you are though. I know, I was agreeing with yo' ass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 As a football fan there's nothing else I need or want to consider. Us losing good players is a bad thing, couldn't give a f*** what it does for the bank balance. Nobody answered in the Enrique thread; why don't the clubs with ambition just buy these better, cheaper players? Before madras pipes up this isn't me saying we should spend more than we can afford to, Carroll and Enrique are/were already here. Those are two quality players, but what good's that when underneath them are the Perch's, Guthrie's & Ryan Taylor's of this world? £50m from that pair, you could get a £15m striker who can get 12-15 goals, a £6m left-back who could do a good job, and then spend on a pretty good squad so we don't get a repeat of the sort of team we had out at Villa on Sunday. As it stands, we won't know what'll come of the Carroll sale until September. If we've not strengthened it's a disastrous sale, but from Carr's quotes in the Sunday Sun last month, I think we'll see a much stronger squad in September than it was in December when we had Carroll. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Relative peanuts obviously. A new signing of Carroll's calibre, you're looking at 80k a week minimum. We got Ben Arfa for about 6 million, and on less than £80k a week. The kid has more talent in his little toe man. I'm obviosly not expecting another Ben Arfa-esque signing any time soon, but it goes to show it's not immpossible, and also what a ridiculous sum of money we got for AC. Invested wisely and it could be worth it 10 times over, he is only 1 player after all. Just how much have you seen of Ben Arfa? Probably about as much as any of us have seen of AC at a truly competative level Speak for yourself. I watched him play at least every other week for two years, whilst he was at Marseille. *hands colocho a gold star* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 As a football fan there's nothing else I need or want to consider. Us losing good players is a bad thing, couldn't give a f*** what it does for the bank balance. Nobody answered in the Enrique thread; why don't the clubs with ambition just buy these better, cheaper players? Before madras pipes up this isn't me saying we should spend more than we can afford to, Carroll and Enrique are/were already here. Those are two quality players, but what good's that when underneath them are the Perch's, Guthrie's & Ryan Taylor's of this world? £50m from that pair, you could get a £15m striker who can get 12-15 goals, a £6m left-back who could do a good job, and then spend on a pretty good squad so we don't get a repeat of the sort of team we had out at Villa on Sunday. As it stands, we won't know what'll come of the Carroll sale until September. If we've not strengthened it's a disastrous sale, but from Carr's quotes in the Sunday Sun last month, I think we'll see a much stronger squad in September than it was in December when we had Carroll. But but you're not supposed to wait and see what actually happens in the summer. You have to take a position NOW, if you don't, then you are an Ashley apologist who will just keep on saying let's wait for the next transfer window. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Relative peanuts obviously. A new signing of Carroll's calibre, you're looking at 80k a week minimum. We got Ben Arfa for about 6 million, and on less than £80k a week. The kid has more talent in his little toe man. I'm obviosly not expecting another Ben Arfa-esque signing any time soon, but it goes to show it's not immpossible, and also what a ridiculous sum of money we got for AC. Invested wisely and it could be worth it 10 times over, he is only 1 player after all. Just how much have you seen of Ben Arfa? Probably about as much as any of us have seen of AC at a truly competative level Speak for yourself. I watched him play at least every other week for two years, whilst he was at Marseille. And after watching HBA that often, you still don't think that it is possible to get a good player at a reasonable price within our wage structure? I guess he must have played badly for Marseille then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Relative peanuts obviously. A new signing of Carroll's calibre, you're looking at 80k a week minimum. We got Ben Arfa for about 6 million, and on less than £80k a week. The kid has more talent in his little toe man. I'm obviosly not expecting another Ben Arfa-esque signing any time soon, but it goes to show it's not immpossible, and also what a ridiculous sum of money we got for AC. Invested wisely and it could be worth it 10 times over, he is only 1 player after all. Just how much have you seen of Ben Arfa? Probably about as much as any of us have seen of AC at a truly competative level Speak for yourself. I watched him play at least every other week for two years, whilst he was at Marseille. And after watching HBA that often, you still don't think that it is possible to get a good player at a reasonable price within our wage structure? I guess he must have played badly for Marseille then? It is his reputation in France, attitude at Marseille/towards Deschamps and the injury he suffered at the hands of De Jong that made him a bargain. Nonetheless, he has so much potential. Terrible shame that we won't get to see him in the same side as Andy Carroll. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Don't worry about that, I'm sure we will have sold him to Liverpool for 400m quid by the end of August Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Relative peanuts obviously. A new signing of Carroll's calibre, you're looking at 80k a week minimum. We got Ben Arfa for about 6 million, and on less than £80k a week. The kid has more talent in his little toe man. I'm obviosly not expecting another Ben Arfa-esque signing any time soon, but it goes to show it's not immpossible, and also what a ridiculous sum of money we got for AC. Invested wisely and it could be worth it 10 times over, he is only 1 player after all. Just how much have you seen of Ben Arfa? Probably about as much as any of us have seen of AC at a truly competative level Speak for yourself. I watched him play at least every other week for two years, whilst he was at Marseille. And after watching HBA that often, you still don't think that it is possible to get a good player at a reasonable price within our wage structure? I guess he must have played badly for Marseille then? It is his reputation in France, attitude at Marseille/towards Deschamps and the injury he suffered at the hands of De Jong that made him a bargain. Nonetheless, he has so much potential. Terrible shame that we won't get to see him in the same side as Andy Carroll. The fee was agreed before the de Jong injury so that wasn't really a factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 If Ben Arfa is half as talented as some on here assert (I've not seen him regularly enough to say) then we'll be lucky to see him play a full season in our shirt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Tiote will have been here a season even if he leaves in the summer so I'm sure we'll see Ben Arfa for at least one season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 If Ben Arfa is half as talented as some on here assert (I've not seen him regularly enough to say) then we'll be lucky to see him play a full season in our shirt. Why? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Tiote is another player that proves we don't need to pay £35million and 80k a week wages to aquire pure quality. Differant areas of the pitch and some took there time to settle (which admitedly both are factors) but Enrique, Tiote, Barton, Ben Arfa and Coloccini combined were cheaper than the big lad. All are arguably more important. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 If Ben Arfa is half as talented as some on here assert (I've not seen him regularly enough to say) then we'll be lucky to see him play a full season in our shirt. Why? Because we're selling everyone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Tiote doesn't get anywhere near the recognition he deserves, attacking play attracts the big brass and always will. We'll get an offer 'too big to turn down' etc for Ben Arfa at some stage if we have for Carroll and he's nowhere near as talented apparently. I'm assuming there will be parties. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazzle Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Even if Ashley wants to make profit on every single we have/sign he would make more money keeping Ben Arfa for a few years. Just in the same way that Carroll could have been sold in the summer or the summer before that but wasn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Tiote doesn't get anywhere near the recognition he deserves, attacking play attracts the big brass and always will. We'll get an offer 'too big to turn down' etc for Ben Arfa at some stage if we have for Carroll and he's nowhere near as talented apparently. I'm assuming there will be parties. Of course.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colocho Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Relative peanuts obviously. A new signing of Carroll's calibre, you're looking at 80k a week minimum. We got Ben Arfa for about 6 million, and on less than £80k a week. The kid has more talent in his little toe man. I'm obviosly not expecting another Ben Arfa-esque signing any time soon, but it goes to show it's not immpossible, and also what a ridiculous sum of money we got for AC. Invested wisely and it could be worth it 10 times over, he is only 1 player after all. Just how much have you seen of Ben Arfa? Probably about as much as any of us have seen of AC at a truly competative level Speak for yourself. I watched him play at least every other week for two years, whilst he was at Marseille. And after watching HBA that often, you still don't think that it is possible to get a good player at a reasonable price within our wage structure? I guess he must have played badly for Marseille then? It is his reputation in France, attitude at Marseille/towards Deschamps and the injury he suffered at the hands of De Jong that made him a bargain. Nonetheless, he has so much potential. Terrible shame that we won't get to see him in the same side as Andy Carroll. The fee was agreed before the de Jong injury so that wasn't really a factor. It certainly made him less attractive to other clubs. Anyway, he's got the potential to be a real star for us. His crossing and movement can be fantastic and as we saw against Everton he's got a great shot with both feet. Deschamps forced him to become more disciplined in his style of play, which meant he lost some of the freedom and flair in his game. If Pardew is to use him to his best, then he must give him the freedom to express himself as a creative midfielder. I'm still not convinced his best position is behind a striker (as much as he probably wants to play there) and I'm slightly concerned that he may get bullied by some of the league's more physical defenders. Still, if playing him behind a striker makes him happy, more likely to stay here and play to his best, then so be it. Remember though, he is no angel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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