Dave Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 How will they afford to make the repayments, indi? I genuinely don't understand (unless of course they quality for the CL). Who? Villa? Yeah. Not sure if they will have to make repayments if the money was put in by Lerner, the advantage he has was that he bought a well ran club with little debt for something like £60 million, he could easily sell it and get back everything he's put in so there's little risk from his point of view. I wouldn't say £63m of debt was 'little' though. They will suffer a massive hit to their accounts through amortisation as we've established, their ticket prices are lower than us, their gates are lower and they have spent £100m on transfers and they'll have a hefty wage bill. How are they in a great state and we are "crippled" financially? Is it purely the owner's ambition in each case? These are genuine questions I don't know the answer to. I think the club as a whole was about £60m, not the debt. Someone posted their financial results a few pages back showing that debt. Ah right, apologies. I thought you'd read Indi's post wrong; Lerner paid £63m for the club according to Wikipedia, so I thought he meant that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 How will they afford to make the repayments, indi? I genuinely don't understand (unless of course they quality for the CL). Who? Villa? Yeah. Not sure if they will have to make repayments if the money was put in by Lerner, the advantage he has was that he bought a well ran club with little debt for something like £60 million, he could easily sell it and get back everything he's put in so there's little risk from his point of view. I wouldn't say £63m of debt was 'little' though. They will suffer a massive hit to their accounts through amortisation as we've established, their ticket prices are lower than us, their gates are lower and they have spent £100m on transfers and they'll have a hefty wage bill. How are they in a great state and we are "crippled" financially? Is it purely the owner's ambition in each case? These are genuine questions I don't know the answer to. Were they £63 million in debt before Lerner took over? Dunno, I don't know if that's transfers or what it represents. It'll be a lot more than that now if it is. According to Doug Ellis, Villa were debt free when it was sold which was why Lerner bought them, he looked at buying us and Everton but was put off by needing money to finance the debts. http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/page.cfm?objectid=17993758&method=full&siteid=50002 Tbs it's hard trying to draw a comparison between ourselves and Villa because we don't really know what they owe to who or how reliable that £63 million is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 It may be worse than he thought it was when he bought it, but he was under no disillusions that it was going to need serious work, hence why he chose the steady strategy of gradual improvements year on year, the only people who thought it only needed a quick fix are the fans. The fans (and Keegan) are the ones who are not in touch with reality, not Ashley. Why didn't he say that then? He preferred to lie to the fans, claim that Keegan (who he hired remember) could have any player he wanted, claim he was here to have fun and claim that the players the club were going to go after were players for the first team with Premiership and Champions League experience. I have also seen no signs of improvement in the squad across four transfer windows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 It may be worse than he thought it was when he bought it, but he was under no disillusions that it was going to need serious work, hence why he chose the steady strategy of gradual improvements year on year, the only people who thought it only needed a quick fix are the fans. The fans (and Keegan) are the ones who are not in touch with reality, not Ashley. Why didn't he say that then? He preferred to lie to the fans, claim that Keegan (who he hired remember) could have any player he wanted, claim he was here to have fun and claim that the players the club were going to go after were players for the first team with Premiership and Champions League experience. I also have seen no signs of improvement in the squad in four transfer windows. I know I'm cherry picking, but do you not think the back four has improved in terms of personnel? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 It may be worse than he thought it was when he bought it, but he was under no disillusions that it was going to need serious work, hence why he chose the steady strategy of gradual improvements year on year, the only people who thought it only needed a quick fix are the fans. The fans (and Keegan) are the ones who are not in touch with reality, not Ashley. Why didn't he say that then? He preferred to lie to the fans, claim that Keegan (who he hired remember) could have any player he wanted, claim he was here to have fun and claim that the players the club were going to go after were players for the first team with Premiership and Champions League experience. I also have seen no signs of improvement in the squad in four transfer windows. I know I'm cherry picking, but do you not think the back four has improved in terms of personnel? Howay we both know cherry picking is no good when it comes to staying in the Premiership. I'd say the personnel have improved but certainly the defensive record in terms of goals conceded has been no better than it was under managers before Allardyce, mainly because of the disgraceful lack of attention paid to the most important area of the side. Another example of Ashley being the anti-Shepherd there btw, one wouldn't spend real money on defenders, the other only does. Fucking typical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 And how many of them signed up on the basis Keegan was there and how many to save themselves money because they would have been going anyway? I can only answer for me but it was a combination of the two, Id be lying if I said it wasnt to save money first and foremost but at the same time Id be daft to commit to shelling out 500sheets a season to watch what albeit could be 2nd division football the season after next. It seemed a good deal because a) it saved me money and b) the future looked rosey. I actually had these thoughts in my head that should we reach Wembley or a UEFA spot then Id have more chance of a golden ticket than those that hadnt signed up. Thats the gamble with doing these things, I have no qualms about that though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 How will they afford to make the repayments, indi? I genuinely don't understand (unless of course they quality for the CL). Who? Villa? Yeah. Not sure if they will have to make repayments if the money was put in by Lerner, the advantage he has was that he bought a well ran club with little debt for something like £60 million, he could easily sell it and get back everything he's put in so there's little risk from his point of view. I wouldn't say £63m of debt was 'little' though. They will suffer a massive hit to their accounts through amortisation as we've established, their ticket prices are lower than us, their gates are lower and they have spent £100m on transfers and they'll have a hefty wage bill. How are they in a great state and we are "crippled" financially? Is it purely the owner's ambition in each case? These are genuine questions I don't know the answer to. Were they £63 million in debt before Lerner took over? Dunno, I don't know if that's transfers or what it represents. It'll be a lot more than that now if it is. According to Doug Ellis, Villa were debt free when it was sold which was why Lerner bought them, he looked at buying us and Everton but was put off by needing money to finance the debts. http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham-sport/page.cfm?objectid=17993758&method=full&siteid=50002 Tbs it's hard trying to draw a comparison between ourselves and Villa because we don't really know what they owe to who or how reliable that £63 million is. Fair enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fading star Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 It may be worse than he thought it was when he bought it, but he was under no disillusions that it was going to need serious work, hence why he chose the steady strategy of gradual improvements year on year, the only people who thought it only needed a quick fix are the fans. The fans (and Keegan) are the ones who are not in touch with reality, not Ashley. Why didn't he say that then? He preferred to lie to the fans, claim that Keegan (who he hired remember) could have any player he wanted, claim he was here to have fun and claim that the players the club were going to go after were players for the first team with Premiership and Champions League experience. I also have seen no signs of improvement in the squad in four transfer windows. I know I'm cherry picking, but do you not think the back four has improved in terms of personnel? Average number of goals conceded per game over the last five seasons. 04/05 > 1.5 05/06 > 1.1 06/07 > 1.2 07/08 > 1.7 08/09 > 1.7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Yes he did otherwise he wouldnt have rang Price Waterhouse begging them to sell the club for him the day after the debt became apparent. No he didn't, the £70 million debt was known about before the club was sold/bought, they did go through the accounts before buying the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 It may be worse than he thought it was when he bought it, but he was under no disillusions that it was going to need serious work, hence why he chose the steady strategy of gradual improvements year on year, the only people who thought it only needed a quick fix are the fans. The fans (and Keegan) are the ones who are not in touch with reality, not Ashley. Why didn't he say that then? He preferred to lie to the fans, claim that Keegan (who he hired remember) could have any player he wanted, claim he was here to have fun and claim that the players the club were going to go after were players for the first team with Premiership and Champions League experience. I also have seen no signs of improvement in the squad in four transfer windows. I know I'm cherry picking, but do you not think the back four has improved in terms of personnel? Average number of goals conceded per game over the last five seasons. 04/05 > 1.5 05/06 > 1.1 06/07 > 1.2 07/08 > 1.7 08/09 > 1.7 all down to the defence........i've been screaming for years that our midfield neither creates or defends and good teams attack and defend as a team. the personnel we have in the back 4 now i'd take over those we had when we finished 3rd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 It may be worse than he thought it was when he bought it, but he was under no disillusions that it was going to need serious work, hence why he chose the steady strategy of gradual improvements year on year, the only people who thought it only needed a quick fix are the fans. The fans (and Keegan) are the ones who are not in touch with reality, not Ashley. Why didn't he say that then? He preferred to lie to the fans, claim that Keegan (who he hired remember) could have any player he wanted, claim he was here to have fun and claim that the players the club were going to go after were players for the first team with Premiership and Champions League experience. I also have seen no signs of improvement in the squad in four transfer windows. I know I'm cherry picking, but do you not think the back four has improved in terms of personnel? Average number of goals conceded per game over the last five seasons. 04/05 > 1.5 05/06 > 1.1 06/07 > 1.2 07/08 > 1.7 08/09 > 1.7 all down to the defence........i've been screaming for years that our midfield neither creates or defends and good teams attack and defend as a team. the personnel we have in the back 4 now i'd take over those we had when we finished 3rd. Precisely what I said, which he knows tbf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fading star Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 How will they afford to make the repayments, indi? I genuinely don't understand (unless of course they quality for the CL). Who? Villa? No West Ham who;ve just found £7.5m for 19 year old Brescia striker Savio Nsereko. Surely West Ham are in worse financial straits than NUFC, and if £7.5m is the going rate for promising young talent Dennis must be shopping at Netto? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 How will they afford to make the repayments, indi? I genuinely don't understand (unless of course they quality for the CL). Who? Villa? No West Ham who;ve just found £7.5m for 19 year old Brescia striker Savio Nsereko. Surely West Ham are in worse financial straits than NUFC, and if £7.5m is the going rate for promising young talent Dennis must be shopping at Netto? is that the west ham who've just sold a forward for £14million ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 How will they afford to make the repayments, indi? I genuinely don't understand (unless of course they quality for the CL). Who? Villa? No West Ham who;ve just found £7.5m for 19 year old Brescia striker Savio Nsereko. Surely West Ham are in worse financial straits than NUFC, and if £7.5m is the going rate for promising young talent Dennis must be shopping at Netto? Bellamy's replacement making the club about £6m in the process I imagine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 How will they afford to make the repayments, indi? I genuinely don't understand (unless of course they quality for the CL). Who? Villa? No West Ham who;ve just found £7.5m for 19 year old Brescia striker Savio Nsereko. Surely West Ham are in worse financial straits than NUFC, and if £7.5m is the going rate for promising young talent Dennis must be shopping at Netto? Bellamy's replacement making the club about £6m in the process I imagine. Not to mention a couple of mill a year on wages Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 How will they afford to make the repayments, indi? I genuinely don't understand (unless of course they quality for the CL). Who? Villa? No West Ham who;ve just found £7.5m for 19 year old Brescia striker Savio Nsereko. Surely West Ham are in worse financial straits than NUFC, and if £7.5m is the going rate for promising young talent Dennis must be shopping at Netto? Bellamy's replacement making the club about £6m in the process I imagine. Not to mention a couple of mill a year on wages Conclusion: Fading star is talking shite. Not for the first time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fading star Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 How will they afford to make the repayments, indi? I genuinely don't understand (unless of course they quality for the CL). Who? Villa? No West Ham who;ve just found £7.5m for 19 year old Brescia striker Savio Nsereko. Surely West Ham are in worse financial straits than NUFC, and if £7.5m is the going rate for promising young talent Dennis must be shopping at Netto? Bellamy's replacement making the club about £6m in the process I imagine. And we’re about to sell Given for £10m and haven’t reinvested the Milner money. West Ham have broken their transfer record to land this kid. It’ us like us spending £20m. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 How will they afford to make the repayments, indi? I genuinely don't understand (unless of course they quality for the CL). Who? Villa? No West Ham who;ve just found £7.5m for 19 year old Brescia striker Savio Nsereko. Surely West Ham are in worse financial straits than NUFC, and if £7.5m is the going rate for promising young talent Dennis must be shopping at Netto? Bellamy's replacement making the club about £6m in the process I imagine. And we’re about to sell Given for £10m and haven’t reinvested the Milner money. West Ham have broken their transfer record to land this kid. It’ us like us spending £20m. Yep, it's exactly the same... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 How will they afford to make the repayments, indi? I genuinely don't understand (unless of course they quality for the CL). Who? Villa? No West Ham who;ve just found £7.5m for 19 year old Brescia striker Savio Nsereko. Surely West Ham are in worse financial straits than NUFC, and if £7.5m is the going rate for promising young talent Dennis must be shopping at Netto? Bellamy's replacement making the club about £6m in the process I imagine. And were about to sell Given for £10m and havent reinvested the Milner money. West Ham have broken their transfer record to land this kid. It us like us spending £20m. Yep, it's exactly the same... Was it fading star who said there was no real difference between having £800m & having £1.7bn? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fading star Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 How will they afford to make the repayments, indi? I genuinely don't understand (unless of course they quality for the CL). Who? Villa? No West Ham who;ve just found £7.5m for 19 year old Brescia striker Savio Nsereko. Surely West Ham are in worse financial straits than NUFC, and if £7.5m is the going rate for promising young talent Dennis must be shopping at Netto? Bellamy's replacement making the club about £6m in the process I imagine. And we’re about to sell Given for £10m and haven’t reinvested the Milner money. West Ham have broken their transfer record to land this kid. It’ us like us spending £20m. Yep, it's exactly the same... I wouldn’t say exactly but it’s more meaningful than a pound for pound comparison. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 How will they afford to make the repayments, indi? I genuinely don't understand (unless of course they quality for the CL). Who? Villa? No West Ham who;ve just found £7.5m for 19 year old Brescia striker Savio Nsereko. Surely West Ham are in worse financial straits than NUFC, and if £7.5m is the going rate for promising young talent Dennis must be shopping at Netto? Bellamy's replacement making the club about £6m in the process I imagine. And we’re about to sell Given for £10m and haven’t reinvested the Milner money. West Ham have broken their transfer record to land this kid. It’ us like us spending £20m. Yep, it's exactly the same... I wouldn’t say exactly but it’s more meaningful than a pound for pound comparison. Of course it is. Our £ is worth less than West Ham's £ Fuck me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 How will they afford to make the repayments, indi? I genuinely don't understand (unless of course they quality for the CL). Who? Villa? No West Ham who;ve just found £7.5m for 19 year old Brescia striker Savio Nsereko. Surely West Ham are in worse financial straits than NUFC, and if £7.5m is the going rate for promising young talent Dennis must be shopping at Netto? Bellamy's replacement making the club about £6m in the process I imagine. And were about to sell Given for £10m and havent reinvested the Milner money. West Ham have broken their transfer record to land this kid. It us like us spending £20m. Yep, it's exactly the same... I wouldnt say exactly but its more meaningful than a pound for pound comparison. So has Ashley stuck £12m in to the blub for transfers in the summer or was the Milner money reinvested to bring Net (urghhh!) spend to nil? Like it or not Ashley has stuck every penny raised from sales back into transfers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 How will they afford to make the repayments, indi? I genuinely don't understand (unless of course they quality for the CL). Who? Villa? No West Ham who;ve just found £7.5m for 19 year old Brescia striker Savio Nsereko. Surely West Ham are in worse financial straits than NUFC, and if £7.5m is the going rate for promising young talent Dennis must be shopping at Netto? Bellamy's replacement making the club about £6m in the process I imagine. And were about to sell Given for £10m and havent reinvested the Milner money. West Ham have broken their transfer record to land this kid. It us like us spending £20m. Yep, it's exactly the same... I wouldnt say exactly but its more meaningful than a pound for pound comparison. West Ham have sold their best player & replaced him with a cheaper, unproven one is the best comparison there is tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
quayside Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 How will they afford to make the repayments, indi? I genuinely don't understand (unless of course they quality for the CL). Who? Villa? No West Ham who;ve just found £7.5m for 19 year old Brescia striker Savio Nsereko. Surely West Ham are in worse financial straits than NUFC, and if £7.5m is the going rate for promising young talent Dennis must be shopping at Netto? Bellamy's replacement making the club about £6m in the process I imagine. And were about to sell Given for £10m and havent reinvested the Milner money. West Ham have broken their transfer record to land this kid. It us like us spending £20m. We had a net spend of £5,000 in the summer window so I think we did reinvest the Milner money. If we get £10 million for Given I'd be surprised if we don't invest it in the squad. We aren't showing a lot of ambition here but I believe there is a pattern emerging. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 It may be worse than he thought it was when he bought it, but he was under no disillusions that it was going to need serious work, hence why he chose the steady strategy of gradual improvements year on year, the only people who thought it only needed a quick fix are the fans. The fans (and Keegan) are the ones who are not in touch with reality, not Ashley. Why didn't he say that then? He preferred to lie to the fans, claim that Keegan (who he hired remember) could have any player he wanted, claim he was here to have fun and claim that the players the club were going to go after were players for the first team with Premiership and Champions League experience. I also have seen no signs of improvement in the squad in four transfer windows. I know I'm cherry picking, but do you not think the back four has improved in terms of personnel? Howay we both know cherry picking is no good when it comes to staying in the Premiership. I'd say the personnel have improved but certainly the defensive record in terms of goals conceded has been no better than it was under managers before Allardyce, mainly because of the disgraceful lack of attention paid to the most important area of the side. Another example of Ashley being the anti-Shepherd there btw, one wouldn't spend real money on defenders, the other only does. Fucking typical. both neglected what has been our problem for 5 years the midfield no money has been spent on it ffs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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