Is Dennis Wise a disruptive influence? Or are the fans making him one?

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Surely the whole point is that there is nothing on Dennis Wise's cv to say he's suitable for either signing young players or first team players for a Premiership club.

 

Maybe so, but even if that's true - being bad at the job he was brought in to do wouldn't suggest that he would then set about undermining Keegan and whatever else he's been accused of.

 

I actually think he's done a decent job of indentifying young players.

[fredbob]

Surely the whole point is that there is nothing on Dennis Wise's cv to say he's suitable for either signing young players or first team players for a Premiership club.

 

The only young player that got a game for Leeds when he was there was Howson and he was already in the academy before Wise got there. Delph was also in the academy before he got there and didn't get a game until Wise left. And he sent Beckford, probably Leeds' best player, out on loan at first.

 

People will be saying it's easy to pick a few examples so to balance things out here a few of Wise's other promising young players he signed: Alan Thompson, Jamie Clapham, Dougie Freedman, Robbie Elliott and Tore Andre Flo. Joking aside the young players he paid a fee for were Tresor Kandol for 200K who's now been bombed out to Millwall, Brad Johnson 250k who was sent on loan at high flying Brighton recently and Neil Kilkenny 150k who looks like leaving for very little this transfer window after being dropped to the reserves. So he spent over half a million on players that are not first choice at Leeds.

 

We gave him job based seemingly on the fact that he knew Ashley somehow and he couldn't be arsed to manage anymore.

 

Another way of looking at it is that everyone starts knowing nothing. Sure HE didnt have the "DOF" experience, but what expereince do you need in spotting good young players, Jiminez had the ocntacts, Vetere and Fucillo had the eye and Wise had the title to bring it all together. Also is worth mentioning that Wise was a memeber of the board.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Surely the whole point is that there is nothing on Dennis Wise's cv to say he's suitable for either signing young players or first team players for a Premiership club.

 

The only young player that got a game for Leeds when he was there was Howson and he was already in the academy before Wise got there. Delph was also in the academy before he got there and didn't get a game until Wise left. And he sent Beckford, probably Leeds' best player, out on loan at first.

 

People will be saying it's easy to pick a few examples so to balance things out here a few of Wise's other promising young players he signed: Alan Thompson, Jamie Clapham, Dougie Freedman, Robbie Elliott and Tore Andre Flo. Joking aside the young players he paid a fee for were Tresor Kandol for 200K who's now been bombed out to Millwall, Brad Johnson 250k who was sent on loan at high flying Brighton recently and Neil Kilkenny 150k who looks like leaving for very little this transfer window after being dropped to the reserves. So he spent over half a million on players that are not first choice at Leeds.

 

We gave him job based seemingly on the fact that he knew Ashley somehow and he couldn't be arsed to manage anymore.

 

Another way of looking at it is that everyone starts knowing nothing. Sure HE didnt have the "DOF" experience, but what expereince do you need in spotting good young players, Jiminez had the ocntacts, Vetere and Fucillo had the eye and Wise had the title to bring it all together. Also is worth mentioning that Wise was a memeber of the board.

 

Does it matter if he signed Delph or not?

 

He worked with a crop of young players and therefore has some degree of experience in spotting what attributes make promise into reality.

 

So he made some bad buys.

 

Fergie bought Taibi, Wenger bought Jeffers, Bobby bought Fumaca

[Guest Edd]

Surely the whole point is that there is nothing on Dennis Wise's cv to say he's suitable for either signing young players or first team players for a Premiership club.

 

Before he came here first time around, you would struggle to see anything on Keegan's CV to suggest he was capable of signing young or first team players never mind managing them as well.

[timnufc22]

I dont generally like the Director of football role at a football club, and the fact that Keegan left because a player was brought in without his consent, he claims, is enough for most people think he's probably a disruptive influence. And that would be the same whether it was Dennis Wise or whoever.

[Guest Edd]

But everyone knew Keegan was a gamble when he first came in as manager. But at that time we were in the position where we couldn't have got a much better alternative. I'd like to think that now, even though we're not doing particularly well, as a Premier League club we could attract a director of football with more experience than Dennis Wise.

 

Well feel free to continue slating Wise before he's had the chance to prove whether he's up to the job or not.  After all, slagging players before they've had a chance seems to be the norm around here so why not extend it to everyone else too.

 

I'll wait and judge him on the players he brings in.

[Robster]

So Kevin Keegan having been out of the game for 3 years hasnt got an earthly clue about modern day Premiership football yet Mike Ashley (from what I know has hardly ever shown an interest in the football), Llambias the Casino Manager, and Jiminez the Property Developer know exactly what it takes to run a top level football club ?

 

 

[cp40]

So Kevin Keegan( 2 time european footballer of the year) having been out of the game for 3 years hasnt got an earthly clue about modern day Premiership football yet Mike Ashley (from what I know has hardly ever shown an interest in the football), Llambias the Casino Manager, and Jiminez the Property Developer know exactly what it takes to run a top level football club ?

 

 

 

fyp

[timnufc22]

But everyone knew Keegan was a gamble when he first came in as manager. But at that time we were in the position where we couldn't have got a much better alternative. I'd like to think that now, even though we're not doing particularly well, as a Premier League club we could attract a director of football with more experience than Dennis Wise.

 

Well feel free to continue slating Wise before he's had the chance to prove whether he's up to the job or not.  After all, slagging players before they've had a chance seems to be the norm around here so why not extend it to everyone else too.

 

I'll wait and judge him on the players he brings in.

 

But with what happened at the start of the season is a decent pointer to think its dsprutive. Also the fact that important holes we're not filled in the squad.

[timnufc22]

Keegan also said in that bit:

 

You start by building up trust with the people who provide the finance that you can find these players at the right price.

 

Something that never seemed to happen, for whatever reason. Maybe their ideas of the 'the right price' where too far apart, or maybe Keegan forgot about this principle and wanted Ashley to spend big straight away.

Or perhaps he just wanted a left back. He did publicly state a left back was his top priority at the start of the summer.

 

He walked becasue he couldnt get a left back?

 

Potentially because he said he wanted to use the funds on a left back, maybe had an experienced player in mind (no sell on value), and Wise etc instead took the (cheaper & potentially more profitable) stance to get someone like Gonzarlez & Xisco?

[Cronky]

I've no idea what really went on, but I don't feel it deserves arguing against because I think it's a pretty disgusting suggestion.

 

I shouldn't have used the word 'always', because that suggests that was his sole objective from the point of taking the job on. I meant it in the sense that once he realised that things were not going to go his way as regards changing the system and buttonholing Ashley to spend big money, he wanted out and the best way of achieving that was a bust-up with Wise and his team. He couldn't afford to quit.

 

Keegan may well have persuaded himself that it was all some great matter of principle on the lines of 'I want what's best for the club and for the fans and I'll fight to get it'. Trouble is, that doesn't sit with being paid large amounts of money specifically to work as part of a team, to an agreed plan.

 

A lot of people think that Keegan is a straight-as-a-die bloke who always wears his heart on his sleeve, and I think that's probably how he sees himself. The idea that he could be manipulative can really offend. But people who are always banging on about how straight and upfront they are, are often the most devious.

[Guest fading star]

I've no idea what really went on, but I don't feel it deserves arguing against because I think it's a pretty disgusting suggestion.

 

I shouldn't have used the word 'always', because that suggests that was his sole objective from the point of taking the job on. I meant it in the sense that once he realised that things were not going to go his way as regards changing the system and buttonholing Ashley to spend big money, he wanted out and the best way of achieving that was a bust-up with Wise and his team. He couldn't afford to quit.

 

Keegan may well have persuaded himself that it was all some great matter of principle on the lines of 'I want what's best for the club and for the fans and I'll fight to get it'. Trouble is, that doesn't sit with being paid large amounts of money specifically to work as part of a team, to an agreed plan.

 

A lot of people think that Keegan is a straight-as-a-die bloke who always wears his heart on his sleeve, and I think that's probably how he sees himself. The idea that he could be manipulative can really offend. But people who are always banging on about how straight and upfront they are, are often the most devious.

Keegan’s never hung around for a pay out. It seems highly unlikely he would have engineered a bust up with Wise this time round in an attempt build a case for constructive dismissal.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

I've no idea what really went on, but I don't feel it deserves arguing against because I think it's a pretty disgusting suggestion.

 

I shouldn't have used the word 'always', because that suggests that was his sole objective from the point of taking the job on. I meant it in the sense that once he realised that things were not going to go his way as regards changing the system and buttonholing Ashley to spend big money, he wanted out and the best way of achieving that was a bust-up with Wise and his team. He couldn't afford to quit.

 

Keegan may well have persuaded himself that it was all some great matter of principle on the lines of 'I want what's best for the club and for the fans and I'll fight to get it'. Trouble is, that doesn't sit with being paid large amounts of money specifically to work as part of a team, to an agreed plan.

 

A lot of people think that Keegan is a straight-as-a-die bloke who always wears his heart on his sleeve, and I think that's probably how he sees himself. The idea that he could be manipulative can really offend. But people who are always banging on about how straight and upfront they are, are often the most devious.

Keegans never hung around for a pay out. It seems highly unlikely he would have engineered a bust up with Wise this time round in an attempt build a case for constructive dismissal.

 

He's never been as desperate for the money tbf, but I couldn't see him doing it for the money.

[Guest Edd]

But everyone knew Keegan was a gamble when he first came in as manager. But at that time we were in the position where we couldn't have got a much better alternative. I'd like to think that now, even though we're not doing particularly well, as a Premier League club we could attract a director of football with more experience than Dennis Wise.

 

Well feel free to continue slating Wise before he's had the chance to prove whether he's up to the job or not.  After all, slagging players before they've had a chance seems to be the norm around here so why not extend it to everyone else too.

 

I'll wait and judge him on the players he brings in.

 

But with what happened at the start of the season is a decent pointer to think its dsprutive. Also the fact that important holes we're not filled in the squad.

 

Would you like to tell us all exactly what happened at the start of the season and what part Wise played in it then, because nobody else knows?

[Thespence]

But everyone knew Keegan was a gamble when he first came in as manager. But at that time we were in the position where we couldn't have got a much better alternative. I'd like to think that now, even though we're not doing particularly well, as a Premier League club we could attract a director of football with more experience than Dennis Wise.

 

Well feel free to continue slating Wise before he's had the chance to prove whether he's up to the job or not.  After all, slagging players before they've had a chance seems to be the norm around here so why not extend it to everyone else too.

 

I'll wait and judge him on the players he brings in.

 

But with what happened at the start of the season is a decent pointer to think its dsprutive. Also the fact that important holes we're not filled in the squad.

 

Would you like to tell us all exactly what happened at the start of the season and what part Wise played in it then, because nobody else knows?

 

Do you think Dennis had nothing to do with events at Newcastle United around 31/08/08?

[timnufc22]

But everyone knew Keegan was a gamble when he first came in as manager. But at that time we were in the position where we couldn't have got a much better alternative. I'd like to think that now, even though we're not doing particularly well, as a Premier League club we could attract a director of football with more experience than Dennis Wise.

 

Well feel free to continue slating Wise before he's had the chance to prove whether he's up to the job or not.  After all, slagging players before they've had a chance seems to be the norm around here so why not extend it to everyone else too.

 

I'll wait and judge him on the players he brings in.

 

But with what happened at the start of the season is a decent pointer to think its dsprutive. Also the fact that important holes we're not filled in the squad.

 

Would you like to tell us all exactly what happened at the start of the season and what part Wise played in it then, because nobody else knows?

 

Something happened which Keegan felt was bad enough to go, and that something is potentially signing a player/players that Keegan did not want. We dont know that for a fact, but people tend to believe Keegan, because of the fact he left.

 

Regardless of what you believe happened, I dont believe that having a director of football bieng involved in player recruitment for the first team is a good thing. I believe it should be recruiting Academy players or nothing, the manager is the most important man and should be able to use whatever budget he has in the way he see's fit imo.

[fredbob]

So Kevin Keegan having been out of the game for 3 years hasnt got an earthly clue about modern day Premiership football yet Mike Ashley (from what I know has hardly ever shown an interest in the football), Llambias the Casino Manager, and Jiminez the Property Developer know exactly what it takes to run a top level football club ?

 

 

 

I guess thats why they got Wise involved.

[timnufc22]

So Kevin Keegan having been out of the game for 3 years hasnt got an earthly clue about modern day Premiership football yet Mike Ashley (from what I know has hardly ever shown an interest in the football), Llambias the Casino Manager, and Jiminez the Property Developer know exactly what it takes to run a top level football club ?

 

 

 

I guess thats why they got Wise involved.

 

Aye probably.

 

I've got another suggestion, just let the god damn manager be the manager, using whichever funds he has at his disposal the way he see's fit.

[Cronky]

Can I pitch in a theory here?

 

The player that 'wasn't wanted' was almost certainly Xisco, and yet Keegan met the player earlier that day and sold him the idea of joining the club. So Keegan must have changed his mind. Why?

 

Well the rumour is that Schweinstager was going to be signed, but they couldn't agree on his salary. To get a player like that, we'd have to make it worthwhile for him by paying him over the odds, as with us and Owen, or City and Kaka. Supposing Keegan now says, well let's ditch the signing of Xisco and use the money to get Schweinstager?

 

Wise and co refuse, either because they believe in Xisco or because they need to keep a lid on salaries, or a combination of the two. There's a row. Keegan walks off, claiming that a player has been foisted on him.

 

 

[Guest The Libertine]

So Kevin Keegan having been out of the game for 3 years hasnt got an earthly clue about modern day Premiership football yet Mike Ashley (from what I know has hardly ever shown an interest in the football), Llambias the Casino Manager, and Jiminez the Property Developer know exactly what it takes to run a top level football club ?

 

 

 

I guess thats why they got Wise involved.

 

Aye probably.

 

I've got another suggestion, just let the god damn manager be the manager, using whichever funds he has at his disposal the way he see's fit.

 

what if that manager wants to break world records on a small budget?

[Thespence]

So Kevin Keegan having been out of the game for 3 years hasnt got an earthly clue about modern day Premiership football yet Mike Ashley (from what I know has hardly ever shown an interest in the football), Llambias the Casino Manager, and Jiminez the Property Developer know exactly what it takes to run a top level football club ?

 

 

 

I guess thats why they got Wise involved.

 

Aye probably.

 

I've got another suggestion, just let the god damn manager be the manager, using whichever funds he has at his disposal the way he see's fit.

 

what if that manager wants to break world records on a small budget?

 

He could not do it.

[timnufc22]

So Kevin Keegan having been out of the game for 3 years hasnt got an earthly clue about modern day Premiership football yet Mike Ashley (from what I know has hardly ever shown an interest in the football), Llambias the Casino Manager, and Jiminez the Property Developer know exactly what it takes to run a top level football club ?

 

 

 

I guess thats why they got Wise involved.

 

Aye probably.

 

I've got another suggestion, just let the god damn manager be the manager, using whichever funds he has at his disposal the way he see's fit.

 

what if that manager wants to break world records on a small budget?

 

Thats why I said whichever funds he has at his disposal. If the money's not there, its not there, let him 'wheel & deal' himself and mould the team in his style bit by bit, dont think Keegan would demand money that wasnt there/wasnt promised.

[Guest Edd]

But everyone knew Keegan was a gamble when he first came in as manager. But at that time we were in the position where we couldn't have got a much better alternative. I'd like to think that now, even though we're not doing particularly well, as a Premier League club we could attract a director of football with more experience than Dennis Wise.

 

Well feel free to continue slating Wise before he's had the chance to prove whether he's up to the job or not.  After all, slagging players before they've had a chance seems to be the norm around here so why not extend it to everyone else too.

 

I'll wait and judge him on the players he brings in.

 

But with what happened at the start of the season is a decent pointer to think its dsprutive. Also the fact that important holes we're not filled in the squad.

 

Would you like to tell us all exactly what happened at the start of the season and what part Wise played in it then, because nobody else knows?

 

Do you think Dennis had nothing to do with events at Newcastle United around 31/08/08?

There's every possibility Wise was involved, but we don't know how or to what extent, why Keegan actually left or whether either of them were acting outside of the job they were employed to do.

 

If it's proved Wise caused the problem by acting outside of his remit then he deserves all the stick he gets, but I'm still waiting for some proof of that.

 

 

But everyone knew Keegan was a gamble when he first came in as manager. But at that time we were in the position where we couldn't have got a much better alternative. I'd like to think that now, even though we're not doing particularly well, as a Premier League club we could attract a director of football with more experience than Dennis Wise.

 

Well feel free to continue slating Wise before he's had the chance to prove whether he's up to the job or not.  After all, slagging players before they've had a chance seems to be the norm around here so why not extend it to everyone else too.

 

I'll wait and judge him on the players he brings in.

 

But with what happened at the start of the season is a decent pointer to think its dsprutive. Also the fact that important holes we're not filled in the squad.

 

Would you like to tell us all exactly what happened at the start of the season and what part Wise played in it then, because nobody else knows?

 

Something happened which Keegan felt was bad enough to go, and that something is potentially signing a player/players that Keegan did not want. We dont know that for a fact, but people tend to believe Keegan, because of the fact he left.

 

Regardless of what you believe happened, I dont believe that having a director of football bieng involved in player recruitment for the first team is a good thing. I believe it should be recruiting Academy players or nothing, the manager is the most important man and should be able to use whatever budget he has in the way he see's fit imo.

 

Ah so you haven't got a clue  then.  Thought so.

[Thespence]

But everyone knew Keegan was a gamble when he first came in as manager. But at that time we were in the position where we couldn't have got a much better alternative. I'd like to think that now, even though we're not doing particularly well, as a Premier League club we could attract a director of football with more experience than Dennis Wise.

 

Well feel free to continue slating Wise before he's had the chance to prove whether he's up to the job or not.  After all, slagging players before they've had a chance seems to be the norm around here so why not extend it to everyone else too.

 

I'll wait and judge him on the players he brings in.

 

But with what happened at the start of the season is a decent pointer to think its dsprutive. Also the fact that important holes we're not filled in the squad.

 

Would you like to tell us all exactly what happened at the start of the season and what part Wise played in it then, because nobody else knows?

 

Do you think Dennis had nothing to do with events at Newcastle United around 31/08/08?

There's every possibility Wise was involved, but we don't know how or to what extent, why Keegan actually left or whether either of them were acting outside of the job they were employed to do.

 

If it's proved Wise caused the problem by acting outside of his remit then he deserves all the stick he gets, but I'm still waiting for some proof of that.

 

Which is all very well & noble but this is message board people post on what they think & have a bit crack. It would be bit shit if people only discussed the actuals.

 

[fredbob]

So Kevin Keegan having been out of the game for 3 years hasnt got an earthly clue about modern day Premiership football yet Mike Ashley (from what I know has hardly ever shown an interest in the football), Llambias the Casino Manager, and Jiminez the Property Developer know exactly what it takes to run a top level football club ?

 

 

 

I guess thats why they got Wise involved.

 

Aye probably.

 

I've got another suggestion, just let the god damn manager be the manager, using whichever funds he has at his disposal the way he see's fit.

 

What if the manager is unable to spend the money in the manner that the club dictates due to tight finances?

 

We've come full circle.

 

We wont agree, you beleive Keegan was capable of sticking to the policcy - i dont.