Llambias Q&A with Chronicle: OP updated with Thursday's articles

[Liam Liam Liam O]

NE5, can you post a link to the answer you gave about Shepherd leading us back to the Champions League because I can't find it.

 

the Halls and Shepherd ran the club, not Shepherd, and my reply is quite clear.

 

You can ask mandiarse to respond now.

 

 

 

Ok, well lets say Shepherd had bought the club, and not Ashley. Would he have led the club back to Champions League? I answered your question about the Magpie group so its your turn to answer mine.

 

but he hasn't bought the club, and he never owned it. The Halls AND Shepherd, on the other hand, DID. And have been the best owners in the last 50 years by far.

 

 

 

So had Ashley not bought the club where do you think we would be now. I reckon more or less in the same league position.

 

no I don't think so. I don't doubt for a moment that the old regime would have taken far more positive steps to even avoid relegation than Ashley has done, never mind try to stave of this so called "mediocrity" [for those who haven't seen it yet].

 

 

 

 

 

Where do you think the money would have come for to pay for these "positive steps"? We were mortgaged up to the hilt as it was.

The extra TV money. Advance season ticket deals.  Third party investment. A share flotation. Increasing season ticket prices. Selling the naming rights for the Gallowgate would have raised few million. Not sacking Big Sam another £6m. Not appointing a director of football a million a year. Not sacking Keegan £8m. Then theres extra incoming money for finishing higher up the table, and the better ticket sales that came with better results.

 

You have to remember that weve spent nothing on new players since Ashley took over. Finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldnt be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal customer base.

 

A bit like General Motors then?

Not even vaguely similar. Supporting a football isnt anything like buying car. If you bought a Ford and it was s*** would you buy another one out of loyalty? 

 

You were the one who made the comparison. You said that an established business with a large customer base should have no problems raising money for investment. I gave an example of a f***ing huge company with a massive customer base, who's had to go cap in hand to the US government for money simply to stay in business, thereby disproving your point and showing (as if it ever actually needed to be done) that you don't know what you're on about, and now you're trying to move the goal posts, goal posts that you put there in the first place!

Howay then - what was I comparing NUFC with?

 

 

Have you forgotten already?

 

The extra TV money. Advance season ticket deals.  Third party investment. A share flotation. Increasing season ticket prices. Selling the naming rights for the Gallowgate would have raised few million. Not sacking Big Sam another £6m. Not appointing a director of football a million a year. Not sacking Keegan £8m. Then theres extra incoming money for finishing higher up the table, and the better ticket sales that came with better results.

 

You have to remember that weve spent nothing on new players since Ashley took over. Finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldnt be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal customer base.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

That'll be you comparing NUFC to a "well established business with a large and loyal customer base".

Not a US car manufacturer then.

 

 

It's not comparison. Before Ashley acquired Newcastle United was an established business with a loyal customer base.

 

How is GM not a "well established business with a large and loyal customer base"?

 

The only thing that is even close to being debatable in that description is "loyal" and with a market share as large as theirs it's pedantry of the highest order to argue about whether or not those sales are to people who always buy GM or not. If you really want to go there though, I'd have thought a significant number of them would be repeat customers.

 

As for the rest of the component parts of your statement:

 

- GM in the guise of Oldsmobile was formed in 1897, so only five years after NUFC.

- GM employs 252,000 people worldwide in 140 countries, in 2008, GM sold 8.35 million vehicles, generating over $166bn of revenue.

 

On a day when the Dow Jones industrial average fell to its lowest level since 1997, it might be easy to overlook another milestone: The combined value of all outstanding shares in General Motors Corp. fell below $1-billion (U.S.) after the shares tumbled to a low of $1.52, down 48 cents. That puts the shares on track for their lowest close in 71 years.

 

The dip put the auto maker's market capitalization at just $929-million

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090220.WBmarkets20090220140815/WBStory/WBmarkets

 

So on it's worst day for 71 years it's still worth almost a billion dollars, and I think the above more than proves it is an established company with a large customer base, wouldn't you say?

 

Earlier this week GM decided that it was having such a hard time that it asked the US government for a $19bn handout, just to stay in business. So it's not actually that easy for a "well established business with a large and loyal customer base" to raise money for investment at the moment.

 

If you don't think it's a fair comparison then I remind you [again], it's your comparison.

Because their customers stopped buying their cars and GM had to be bailed out the US government. 

 

Do you even know what point you're trying to make?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did I not see empty seats at the last game?

Yes, finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldnt be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal customer base.

 

 

Glad to hear it.  Where do you think we will find it?

[Mick]

Ive already suggested some ways Shepherd could have raised some extra cash, but would concede that finding £60m to cover outgoings and strengthen the squad would have been difficult.

 

What has to be concern is that for all Ashleys cost cutting measures our operating loss was still £20m. 

 

OK, I'll go and reply to that one.

[OzzieMandias]

NE5, can you post a link to the answer you gave about Shepherd leading us back to the Champions League because I can't find it.

 

He'd have to be some kind of magician to post a link to an answer he has never given.

[Cajun]

Newcastle United is like a racing car, Shepherd and co drove it around, got a few good lap times but tried too hard to improve on it and ended up smashing the car into a wall. Ashley now has the almost written off car and people are expecting him to get the same kind of lap times.

 

 

 

That is an analogy even James would be proud of 

[Guest toonlass]

NE5, can you post a link to the answer you gave about Shepherd leading us back to the Champions League because I can't find it.

 

He'd have to be some kind of magician to post a link to an answer he has never given.

 

My point exactly

[Guest]

Newcastle United is like a racing car, Shepherd and co drove it around, got a few good lap times but tried too hard to improve on it and ended up smashing the car into a wall. Ashley now has the almost written off car and people are expecting him to get the same kind of lap times.

 

 

 

That is an analogy even James would be proud of 

 

Until I actually looked at who wrote it, I thought it was James.

[Guest toonlass]

Newcastle United is like a racing car, Shepherd and co drove it around, got a few good lap times but tried too hard to improve on it and ended up smashing the car into a wall. Ashley now has the almost written off car and people are expecting him to get the same kind of lap times.

 

 

 

That is an analogy even James would be proud of 

 

No that sounds like when we had the Newcastle United racing car tbh

[Mick]

The extra TV money. Advance season ticket deals.  Third party investment. A share flotation. Increasing season ticket prices. Selling the naming rights for the Gallowgate would have raised few million. Not sacking Big Sam another £6m. Not appointing a director of football a million a year. Not sacking Keegan £8m. Then there’s extra incoming money for finishing higher up the table, and the better ticket sales that came with better results.

 

You have to remember that we’ve spent nothing on new players since Ashley took over. Finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldn’t be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’.

 

The extra TV money - Already being spent.

Advanced season ticket sales - Already done.

Third party investment - Who?

A share flotation - We've got a falling stock market where people are worried about investing, football is no longer a market investors are looking to get involved in.

Increased season ticket prices - We're looking to reduce prices because we're in a global recession.

Selling the naming rights to the Gallowgate - Possibly, if anybody is willing to pay for it in a global recession.

Not sacking Sam Allardyce - Great, we might be in the 2nd division now and bringing in even less cash.

Not appointing a director of football a million a year - Do you suggest we go back to having 1 scout like we had under Roeder?

Not sacking Keegan - This has cost nothing so far and don't worry, without Ashley he wouldn't have came here.

Extra incoming money for finishing higher up the table - Yes, we did that, we finished higher than the season before they arrived.

Better ticket sales - We did that, the gates were up almost 1,000 per games in our first season with Ashley.

[Guest fading star]

So what was our operating loss for 07/08?

 

£20.3 million and before you ask, £54.5 million. 

 

Edit

 

That was loss before tax, operating loss for the two years was £50.7 million.

 

2nd edit

 

Where was that coming from without Ashley?

I’ve already suggested some ways Shepherd could have raised some extra cash, but would concede that finding £60m to cover outgoings and strengthen the squad would have been difficult.

 

What has to be concern is that for all Ashley’s cost cutting measures our operating loss was still £20m. 

 

What else do you think he should have done to reduce it further?

Not sacking Big Sam would have been a good start. He was after all a manager with a proven record of running a premier league club on a shoestring, but what Ashley should have done was restructure the debts over a longer period of time and left a bit of money for product development. By insisting on paying everything off right now he’s devalued the product to such an extent that revenue streams are tumbling.

 

His business strategy is all about cutting cost and completely ignores protecting / increasing revenue streams. It’s a very narrow minded approach, not to say odd. The really important question is - are the club’s outgoings falling faster than it‘s income?

[Mick]

Yes, finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldnt be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal customer base.

 

 

You expect £25 - £30 million on top of the £50 million lost in two years?

 

Welcome to the real world.

[Guest toonlass]

So what was our operating loss for 07/08?

 

£20.3 million and before you ask, £54.5 million. 

 

Edit

 

That was loss before tax, operating loss for the two years was £50.7 million.

 

2nd edit

 

Where was that coming from without Ashley?

I’ve already suggested some ways Shepherd could have raised some extra cash, but would concede that finding £60m to cover outgoings and strengthen the squad would have been difficult.

 

What has to be concern is that for all Ashley’s cost cutting measures our operating loss was still £20m. 

 

What else do you think he should have done to reduce it further?

Not sacking Big Sam would have been a good start. He was after all a manager with a proven record of running a premier league club on a shoestring, but what Ashley should have done was restructure the debts over a longer period of time and left a bit of money for product development. By insisting on paying everything off right now he’s devalued the product to such an extent that revenue streams are tumbling.

 

His business strategy is all about cutting cost and completely ignores protecting / increasing revenue streams. It’s a very narrow minded approach, not to say odd. The really important question is - are the club’s outgoings falling faster than it‘s income?

 

But Sam was leading us to relegation, for sure. His style is just so anti-Newcastle it could never work here.

[Mick]

Newcastle United is like a racing car, Shepherd and co drove it around, got a few good lap times but tried too hard to improve on it and ended up smashing the car into a wall. Ashley now has the almost written off car and people are expecting him to get the same kind of lap times.

 

 

 

That is an analogy even James would be proud of 

 

I'd be proud of it.  

[OzzieMandias]

Yes, finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldn?t be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal ?customer base?.

 

 

You expect £25 - £30 million on top of the £50 million lost in two years?

 

Welcome to the real world.

 

He seems reluctant to join it.

[Dave]

Newcastle United is like a racing car, Shepherd and co drove it around, got a few good lap times but tried too hard to improve on it and ended up smashing the car into a wall. Ashley now has the almost written off car and people are expecting him to get the same kind of lap times.

 

He'd have a better chance if he put some motherfucking fuel in the bastard.

[Guest fading star]

So what was our operating loss for 07/08?

 

£20.3 million and before you ask, £54.5 million. 

 

Edit

 

That was loss before tax, operating loss for the two years was £50.7 million.

 

2nd edit

 

Where was that coming from without Ashley?

I’ve already suggested some ways Shepherd could have raised some extra cash, but would concede that finding £60m to cover outgoings and strengthen the squad would have been difficult.

 

What has to be concern is that for all Ashley’s cost cutting measures our operating loss was still £20m. 

 

Totally agree, but Ashley has cut the cloth accordingly to stop the rot in the debt scales. If we stay up this year we can think about starting to climb again. Before that though, we need to think about stabilising before we end up where we were before John Hall came in.

Yeah, that’s right. We need to steady the ship, which will be all the harder with Captain Ashley hell bent on sailing into stormy waters.

[dcmk]

When Ashley came didnt he have to pay off the stadium immediately because of the change of ownership, ain;t this reflected in the accounts??

[Mick]

Not sacking Big Sam would have been a good start. He was after all a manager with a proven record of running a premier league club on a shoestring, but what Ashley should have done was restructure the debts over a longer period of time and left a bit of money for product development. By insisting on paying everything off right now he’s devalued the product to such an extent that revenue streams are tumbling.

 

His business strategy is all about cutting cost and completely ignores protecting / increasing revenue streams. It’s a very narrow minded approach, not to say odd. The really important question is - are the club’s outgoings falling faster than it‘s income?

 

I don't really want to get into Allardyce but I will say that keeping him would have been as big a gamble as any taken so far and one that was more likely to fail.

 

As for Ashley paying off loans, it was the only way we could reduce the money going out and is saving £8 million a year which would have now been higher if it wasn't for Ashley and his loans.  The club spent something like £5 million the year before when trying to re-structure the debt, Ashley totally wiped it out from his own pocket, at least as far as costs for the club is concerned.

[Mick]

When Ashley came didnt he have to pay off the stadium immediately because of the change of ownership, ain;t this reflected in the accounts??

 

The stadium debt doesn't reflect in the losses made.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

So what was our operating loss for 07/08?

 

£20.3 million and before you ask, £54.5 million. 

 

Edit

 

That was loss before tax, operating loss for the two years was £50.7 million.

 

2nd edit

 

Where was that coming from without Ashley?

Ive already suggested some ways Shepherd could have raised some extra cash, but would concede that finding £60m to cover outgoings and strengthen the squad would have been difficult.

 

What has to be concern is that for all Ashleys cost cutting measures our operating loss was still £20m. 

 

What else do you think he should have done to reduce it further?

Not sacking Big Sam would have been a good start. He was after all a manager with a proven record of running a premier league club on a shoestring, but what Ashley should have done was restructure the debts over a longer period of time and left a bit of money for product development. By insisting on paying everything off right now hes devalued the product to such an extent that revenue streams are tumbling.

 

His business strategy is all about cutting cost and completely ignores protecting / increasing revenue streams. Its a very narrow minded approach, not to say odd. The really important question is - are the clubs outgoings falling faster than its income?

 

That doesn't even make sense.

[Cajun]

Newcastle United is like a racing car, Shepherd and co drove it around, got a few good lap times but tried too hard to improve on it and ended up smashing the car into a wall. Ashley now has the almost written off car and people are expecting him to get the same kind of lap times.

 

He'd have a better chance if he put some motherfucking fuel in the bastard.

 

He can't afford to, he already has the suspension to fix aswell as replacing the tyres and a new gear box.

[ikri]

So what was our operating loss for 07/08?

 

£20.3 million and before you ask, £54.5 million. 

 

Edit

 

That was loss before tax, operating loss for the two years was £50.7 million.

 

2nd edit

 

Where was that coming from without Ashley?

I’ve already suggested some ways Shepherd could have raised some extra cash, but would concede that finding £60m to cover outgoings and strengthen the squad would have been difficult.

 

What has to be concern is that for all Ashley’s cost cutting measures our operating loss was still £20m. 

 

What else do you think he should have done to reduce it further?

Not sacking Big Sam would have been a good start. He was after all a manager with a proven record of running a premier league club on a shoestring, but what Ashley should have done was restructure the debts over a longer period of time and left a bit of money for product development. By insisting on paying everything off right now he’s devalued the product to such an extent that revenue streams are tumbling.

 

His business strategy is all about cutting cost and completely ignores protecting / increasing revenue streams. It’s a very narrow minded approach, not to say odd. The really important question is - are the club’s outgoings falling faster than it‘s income?

 

If Fat Sam had stayed in charge we'd have been relegated, playing his brand of anti-football all the way.

 

Our biggest game this season would have been against Glenn Roeder's Norwich side.  Most games would have probably attracted no more than 20,000.

[Dave]

Newcastle United is like a racing car, Shepherd and co drove it around, got a few good lap times but tried too hard to improve on it and ended up smashing the car into a wall. Ashley now has the almost written off car and people are expecting him to get the same kind of lap times.

 

He'd have a better chance if he put some motherfucking fuel in the bastard.

 

He can't afford to, he already has the suspension to fix aswell as replacing the tyres and a new gear box.

 

He proper fucked up not doing that HPI check like.

[Guest fading star]

So what was our operating loss for 07/08?

 

£20.3 million and before you ask, £54.5 million. 

 

Edit

 

That was loss before tax, operating loss for the two years was £50.7 million.

 

2nd edit

 

Where was that coming from without Ashley?

I’ve already suggested some ways Shepherd could have raised some extra cash, but would concede that finding £60m to cover outgoings and strengthen the squad would have been difficult.

 

What has to be concern is that for all Ashley’s cost cutting measures our operating loss was still £20m. 

 

What else do you think he should have done to reduce it further?

Not sacking Big Sam would have been a good start. He was after all a manager with a proven record of running a premier league club on a shoestring, but what Ashley should have done was restructure the debts over a longer period of time and left a bit of money for product development. By insisting on paying everything off right now he’s devalued the product to such an extent that revenue streams are tumbling.

 

His business strategy is all about cutting cost and completely ignores protecting / increasing revenue streams. It’s a very narrow minded approach, not to say odd. The really important question is - are the club’s outgoings falling faster than it‘s income?

 

That doesn't even make sense.

Oh yes it does.

[Guest fading star]

So what was our operating loss for 07/08?

 

£20.3 million and before you ask, £54.5 million. 

 

Edit

 

That was loss before tax, operating loss for the two years was £50.7 million.

 

2nd edit

 

Where was that coming from without Ashley?

I’ve already suggested some ways Shepherd could have raised some extra cash, but would concede that finding £60m to cover outgoings and strengthen the squad would have been difficult.

 

What has to be concern is that for all Ashley’s cost cutting measures our operating loss was still £20m. 

 

What else do you think he should have done to reduce it further?

Not sacking Big Sam would have been a good start. He was after all a manager with a proven record of running a premier league club on a shoestring, but what Ashley should have done was restructure the debts over a longer period of time and left a bit of money for product development. By insisting on paying everything off right now he’s devalued the product to such an extent that revenue streams are tumbling.

 

His business strategy is all about cutting cost and completely ignores protecting / increasing revenue streams. It’s a very narrow minded approach, not to say odd. The really important question is - are the club’s outgoings falling faster than it‘s income?

 

If Fat Sam had stayed in charge we'd have been relegated, playing his brand of anti-football all the way.

 

Our biggest game this season would have been against Glenn Roeder's Norwich side.  Most games would have probably attracted no more than 20,000.

You think JFK is a better manager then?

[ikri]

So what was our operating loss for 07/08?

 

£20.3 million and before you ask, £54.5 million. 

 

Edit

 

That was loss before tax, operating loss for the two years was £50.7 million.

 

2nd edit

 

Where was that coming from without Ashley?

I’ve already suggested some ways Shepherd could have raised some extra cash, but would concede that finding £60m to cover outgoings and strengthen the squad would have been difficult.

 

What has to be concern is that for all Ashley’s cost cutting measures our operating loss was still £20m. 

 

What else do you think he should have done to reduce it further?

Not sacking Big Sam would have been a good start. He was after all a manager with a proven record of running a premier league club on a shoestring, but what Ashley should have done was restructure the debts over a longer period of time and left a bit of money for product development. By insisting on paying everything off right now he’s devalued the product to such an extent that revenue streams are tumbling.

 

His business strategy is all about cutting cost and completely ignores protecting / increasing revenue streams. It’s a very narrow minded approach, not to say odd. The really important question is - are the club’s outgoings falling faster than it‘s income?

 

If Fat Sam had stayed in charge we'd have been relegated, playing his brand of anti-football all the way.

 

Our biggest game this season would have been against Glenn Roeder's Norwich side.  Most games would have probably attracted no more than 20,000.

You think JFK is a better manager then?

 

I think he's completely out of his depth here, I think his ideas are 10 years out of date at the very least.

 

But for all that, I think he's better suited to Newcastle United than Fat Sam ever was.  He's at least attempted to win games, not tried to hold on to a 0-0 draw for 89 minutes before grabbing a last-minute winner from a set piece.

 

You seem to have forgotten just how shit we were under Fat Sam.