NE5 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Unless Wise is our manager I'd like him to leave as I believe the manager should have complete control over the playing staff. I'm not comfortable with the director of football concept and don't feel it works. If Wise is just a glorified scout then I've no problem with him, but his title, the comments from the MD and the entire Keegan affair suggest he has much more influence than that. The fact that he has absolutely no prior experience in the DOF role or even a basic affinity with the club doesn't help either. How's that? abso-lutely Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Saying he's done a good job are exactly the same type of assumptions seeing as nobody really knows what he does. If people can't criticise because they don't know the full story it's hardly fair to then praise him based on the same lack of information. We can only go off where we are at this point in time on the pitch. It's not great, is it? again correct. Nowt like a reality check. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Saying he's done a good job are exactly the same type of assumptions seeing as nobody really knows what he does. If people can't criticise because they don't know the full story it's hardly fair to then praise him based on the same lack of information. We can only go off where we are at this point in time on the pitch. It's not great, is it? again correct. Nowt like a reality check. oh fuck me, what a load of shit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 People go on about what a twat Wise was as a player, but I wonder if he was that much of a twat as a person given that he seems to have formed strong friendships with distinguished foreign imports such as Zola, Deschamps and Poyet. That could be seen as quite forward-looking on his part, as the quality of signings he's turned up for us suggests that he has a pretty good network out there. I don't think it matters a damn whether or not he has any "natural affinity" for the Toon. you didn't say that about Craig Bellamy when he was the possible the most consistently performing and hugely influential player at the club. You're consistent in your personality based agendas, I'll give you that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Saying he's done a good job are exactly the same type of assumptions seeing as nobody really knows what he does. If people can't criticise because they don't know the full story it's hardly fair to then praise him based on the same lack of information. We can only go off where we are at this point in time on the pitch. It's not great, is it? again correct. Nowt like a reality check. oh fuck me, what a load of shit no, it isn't. YOU show ME where the club is in the league and also show me why important players have bailed out, if they are happy with the direction of the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 People go on about what a twat Wise was as a player, but I wonder if he was that much of a twat as a person given that he seems to have formed strong friendships with distinguished foreign imports such as Zola, Deschamps and Poyet. That could be seen as quite forward-looking on his part, as the quality of signings he's turned up for us suggests that he has a pretty good network out there. I don't think it matters a damn whether or not he has any "natural affinity" for the Toon. Neither do I, that's why I said neither of those matter. I wasn't having a go at you, Dave. Just adding my tuppence worth on the general subject of Wise. One of the many dumb things in that NUSC protest rally speech posted on here was this bit... Explain how a former player of little real talent and with no ties to the north east can be given the keys to the kingdom... Followed closely by this... Custodians who see their job as selling the pies and chips; people who employ the odious Dennis Wise to do their dirty work... I've no particular love for the guy, but I just don't get the hatred. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 People go on about what a twat Wise was as a player, but I wonder if he was that much of a twat as a person given that he seems to have formed strong friendships with distinguished foreign imports such as Zola, Deschamps and Poyet. That could be seen as quite forward-looking on his part, as the quality of signings he's turned up for us suggests that he has a pretty good network out there. I don't think it matters a damn whether or not he has any "natural affinity" for the Toon. Neither do I, that's why I said neither of those matter. I wasn't having a go at you, Dave. Just adding my tuppence worth on the general subject of Wise. One of the many dumb things in that NUSC protest rally speech posted on here was this bit... Explain how a former player of little real talent and with no ties to the north east can be given the keys to the kingdom... Followed closely by this... Custodians who see their job as selling the pies and chips; people who employ the odious Dennis Wise to do their dirty work... I've no particular love for the guy, but I just don't get the hatred . eeerrrrr..........you don't get irony either do you, heavy irony too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relámpago blanco Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Saying he's done a good job are exactly the same type of assumptions seeing as nobody really knows what he does. He recruits players. So it's his fault Keegan walked and we ended up in complete and utter turmoil? That'll be why people want him out then. See what I mean? No I fully understand why people want him out, I'm just saying he won't be sacked and he does a good job. How do you know he does a good job when you don't even know what it is? We know he recruits players, other wise his job title wouldn't be Executive Director (Football) - Recruitment or something to that effect I remember reaing it when he signed and thinking thats a bloody weird job title. I'll find a link later when I have enough time. I was under the impression it was his job to recruit young talent. However in January Kinnear then stated he'd need to speak to Wise about his first team signings. Aye, they basically lied. I trust the Sun more than I do statements on nufc.co.uk now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Oh look, my stalker has arrived, muttering the usual irrelevancies. Why don't you try and find something intelligent to say about my post? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Saying he's done a good job are exactly the same type of assumptions seeing as nobody really knows what he does. If people can't criticise because they don't know the full story it's hardly fair to then praise him based on the same lack of information. We can only go off where we are at this point in time on the pitch. It's not great, is it? again correct. Nowt like a reality check. oh fuck me, what a load of shit no, it isn't. YOU show ME where the club is in the league and also show me why important players have bailed out, if they are happy with the direction of the club. the post dave made was about wise, wise is not in charge of the budget is he? his boss is i'm going to assume that difficult decisions have to be made within the constraints of that budget in his role as DOF/transfer kingpin or whatever you want to call him it's not shite from your perspective 'cause it meets your anti ashley-ism but it's shite with regards his last sentence, blaming wise for where we are on the pitch is a fucking joke imo since he arrived we've signed potentially the best CB we've seen for ages, another very good one for 10m, a better winger than was already at the club and a few squad fillers...if you think wise WANTED to offer owen a pay cut, or let given/zog leave then you're mental someone back up the anti wise shite or fuck off with it, already said that but it was roundly ignored of course 'cause it ain't popular Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Saying he's done a good job are exactly the same type of assumptions seeing as nobody really knows what he does. He recruits players. So it's his fault Keegan walked and we ended up in complete and utter turmoil? That'll be why people want him out then. See what I mean? No I fully understand why people want him out, I'm just saying he won't be sacked and he does a good job. How do you know he does a good job when you don't even know what it is? We know he recruits players, other wise his job title wouldn't be Executive Director (Football) - Recruitment or something to that effect I remember reaing it when he signed and thinking thats a bloody weird job title. I'll find a link later when I have enough time. I was under the impression it was his job to recruit young talent. However in January Kinnear then stated he'd need to speak to Wise about his first team signings. Aye, they basically lied. I trust the Sun more than I do statements on nufc.co.uk now. Maybe his role's changed, or evolved. Who knows? I can't say that the precise nature of Dennis Wise's job description strikes me as one of the club's major issues right now, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Saying he's done a good job are exactly the same type of assumptions seeing as nobody really knows what he does. If people can't criticise because they don't know the full story it's hardly fair to then praise him based on the same lack of information. We can only go off where we are at this point in time on the pitch. It's not great, is it? again correct. Nowt like a reality check. oh fuck me, what a load of shit no, it isn't. YOU show ME where the club is in the league and also show me why important players have bailed out, if they are happy with the direction of the club. the post dave made was about wise, wise is not in charge of the budget is he? his boss is i'm going to assume that difficult decisions have to be made within the constraints of that budget in his role as DOF/transfer kingpin or whatever you want to call him it's not shite from your perspective 'cause it meets your anti ashley-ism but it's shite with regards his last sentence, blaming wise for where we are on the pitch is a fucking joke imo since he arrived we've signed potentially the best CB we've seen for ages, another very good one for 10m, a better winger than was already at the club and a few squad fillers...if you think wise WANTED to offer owen a pay cut, or let given/zog leave then you're mental someone back up the anti wise shite or fuck off with it, already said that but it was roundly ignored of course 'cause it ain't popular I made two posts attempting to back it up. If we don't know what Wise's exact role is (and we don't), the only thing we can all look at is the way the team and club is performing as a whole. That's the only thing we can all look at and agree on. He's apparently a fundamental part of the team; the system we're currently employing. However you want to spin it, the facts are that that same system - for whatever reason - caused the manager to walk out and is presiding over a woeful season which may yet see us relegated. If people weren't convinced by Wise and the system he fits into when both were put in place, it's beyond me as to how they are convinced by us scraping survival with Joe Kinnear at the helm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Saying he's done a good job are exactly the same type of assumptions seeing as nobody really knows what he does. He recruits players. So it's his fault Keegan walked and we ended up in complete and utter turmoil? That'll be why people want him out then. See what I mean? No I fully understand why people want him out, I'm just saying he won't be sacked and he does a good job. How do you know he does a good job when you don't even know what it is? We know he recruits players, other wise his job title wouldn't be Executive Director (Football) - Recruitment or something to that effect I remember reaing it when he signed and thinking thats a bloody weird job title. I'll find a link later when I have enough time. I was under the impression it was his job to recruit young talent. However in January Kinnear then stated he'd need to speak to Wise about his first team signings. Aye, they basically lied. I trust the Sun more than I do statements on nufc.co.uk now. Maybe his role's changed, or evolved. Who knows? I can't say that the precise nature of Dennis Wise's job description strikes me as one of the club's major issues right now, though. I think in the context of us getting in a manager better than Joe Kinnear it's extremely relevant. Like it or not, other managers will not look on the Keegan affair favourably and would seek clarity on the matter if approached. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Oh look, my stalker has arrived, muttering the usual irrelevancies. Why don't you try and find something intelligent to say about my post? more irony. Do you or do you not think that Dennis Wise is a good DOF, and do you or do you not think that Mike Ashley will run a successful club in keeping with the recent history of the club and the last owners. Please debate this sensibly, give us your intelligent and reasoned response, and none of this hindsight bullshit that you excell in. It's all yours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Saying he's done a good job are exactly the same type of assumptions seeing as nobody really knows what he does. He recruits players. So it's his fault Keegan walked and we ended up in complete and utter turmoil? That'll be why people want him out then. See what I mean? No I fully understand why people want him out, I'm just saying he won't be sacked and he does a good job. How do you know he does a good job when you don't even know what it is? We know he recruits players, other wise his job title wouldn't be Executive Director (Football) - Recruitment or something to that effect I remember reaing it when he signed and thinking thats a bloody weird job title. I'll find a link later when I have enough time. I was under the impression it was his job to recruit young talent. However in January Kinnear then stated he'd need to speak to Wise about his first team signings. Aye, they basically lied. I trust the Sun more than I do statements on nufc.co.uk now. Maybe his role's changed, or evolved. Who knows? I can't say that the precise nature of Dennis Wise's job description strikes me as one of the club's major issues right now, though. I think in the context of us getting in a manager better than Joe Kinnear it's extremely relevant. Like it or not, other managers will not look on the Keegan affair favourably and would seek clarity on the matter if approached. Well, just because we haven't seen his job description doesn't mean a potential manager won't get to discuss it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Saying he's done a good job are exactly the same type of assumptions seeing as nobody really knows what he does. If people can't criticise because they don't know the full story it's hardly fair to then praise him based on the same lack of information. We can only go off where we are at this point in time on the pitch. It's not great, is it? again correct. Nowt like a reality check. oh fuck me, what a load of shit no, it isn't. YOU show ME where the club is in the league and also show me why important players have bailed out, if they are happy with the direction of the club. the post dave made was about wise, wise is not in charge of the budget is he? his boss is i'm going to assume that difficult decisions have to be made within the constraints of that budget in his role as DOF/transfer kingpin or whatever you want to call him it's not shite from your perspective 'cause it meets your anti ashley-ism but it's shite with regards his last sentence, blaming wise for where we are on the pitch is a fucking joke imo since he arrived we've signed potentially the best CB we've seen for ages, another very good one for 10m, a better winger than was already at the club and a few squad fillers...if you think wise WANTED to offer owen a pay cut, or let given/zog leave then you're mental someone back up the anti wise shite or fuck off with it, already said that but it was roundly ignored of course 'cause it ain't popular I made two posts attempting to back it up. If we don't know what Wise's exact role is (and we don't), the only thing we can all look at is the way the team and club is performing as a whole. That's the only thing we can all look at and agree on. He's apparently a fundamental part of the team; the system we're currently employing. However you want to spin it, the facts are that that same system - for whatever reason - caused the manager to walk out and is presiding over a woeful season which may yet see us relegated. If people weren't convinced by Wise and the system he fits into when both were put in place, it's beyond me as to how they are convinced by us scraping survival with Joe Kinnear at the helm. dave, there's nothing to back it up because: (a) wise being instrumental in KK leaving is based totally on conjecture and is fuelled by personal feelings about the man - if he had overstepped his boundaries then chances are MA would have backed KK, so operating within his boundaries is not something we should be wanting a guy hounded out of the club for, is it? (b) i assume you agree he doesn't set the budget or wages offered to players? then you probably agree difficult decisions are being made by the man? so what has he done wrong given that then? you look at the ins and outs and tell me what you'd have done differently, 'cause i just don't see it © the bit in bold - it's been made clear wise's remit is transfers and that side of the business i believe, right? therefore what is he doing wrong assuming i'm not talking shite in (a) & (b)? you can't level the performance of the club as a whole at him just 'cause we're not sure if he scouts every player himself or decides on the wages to offer during contract negotiations, i'm pretty sure his remit doesn't go down to choosing the matchday pies (d) colo, bassong & spidey are very good players signed for decent money, just 'cause he doesn't have more to play with why blame the guy? just don't get it, why people can't divorce wide from the wider mess Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Saying he's done a good job are exactly the same type of assumptions seeing as nobody really knows what he does. He recruits players. So it's his fault Keegan walked and we ended up in complete and utter turmoil? That'll be why people want him out then. See what I mean? No I fully understand why people want him out, I'm just saying he won't be sacked and he does a good job. How do you know he does a good job when you don't even know what it is? We know he recruits players, other wise his job title wouldn't be Executive Director (Football) - Recruitment or something to that effect I remember reaing it when he signed and thinking thats a bloody weird job title. I'll find a link later when I have enough time. I was under the impression it was his job to recruit young talent. However in January Kinnear then stated he'd need to speak to Wise about his first team signings. Aye, they basically lied. I trust the Sun more than I do statements on nufc.co.uk now. Maybe his role's changed, or evolved. Who knows? I can't say that the precise nature of Dennis Wise's job description strikes me as one of the club's major issues right now, though. I think in the context of us getting in a manager better than Joe Kinnear it's extremely relevant. Like it or not, other managers will not look on the Keegan affair favourably and would seek clarity on the matter if approached. The problem with having a DOF is that if he is shite, and is unsackable, whoever the manager is will get left with players who aren't good enough. Bigger things such as budget are outside his remit, but it stops with the owner, as it always has done, this is into the "backing of the manager [or DOF] territory. It may well be that he doesn't have a chance, just like a manager who isn't backed, but he [Wise] has NO history of being successful at spotting players, in fact if you talk to Millwall or Leeds fans, they will also say this. I find it very galling that people who have spent ages spouting one liners and generally trying to be a smart arse [ie mandiarse] are now objecting and making comments which demand people debate, if he doesn't like it he shouldn't have dished it out. Nevertheless, I think this post, the comments that you Dave have made which I agree with, along with my long standing unanswered question about Kenny Dalglish, the remarks about hindsight, and the quite obvious irony of his agenda towards protests, and having "bad eggs" on the clubs payroll [ie Bellamy and wise], to be perfectly debateable points of view. Nobody is stopping him from commenting, and I am more than happy to debate this in an adult fashion if so wished, however I will back up any points I make with factual information based on performance in the form of league tables, positions and the influence held at the club during their time in question. I've just asked him his position on Wise, and Ashley. Lets see if he can discuss it in the manner he says he wants to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relámpago blanco Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Saying he's done a good job are exactly the same type of assumptions seeing as nobody really knows what he does. He recruits players. So it's his fault Keegan walked and we ended up in complete and utter turmoil? That'll be why people want him out then. See what I mean? No I fully understand why people want him out, I'm just saying he won't be sacked and he does a good job. How do you know he does a good job when you don't even know what it is? We know he recruits players, other wise his job title wouldn't be Executive Director (Football) - Recruitment or something to that effect I remember reaing it when he signed and thinking thats a bloody weird job title. I'll find a link later when I have enough time. I was under the impression it was his job to recruit young talent. However in January Kinnear then stated he'd need to speak to Wise about his first team signings. Aye, they basically lied. I trust the Sun more than I do statements on nufc.co.uk now. Maybe his role's changed, or evolved. Who knows? I can't say that the precise nature of Dennis Wise's job description strikes me as one of the club's major issues right now, though. I think in the context of us getting in a manager better than Joe Kinnear it's extremely relevant. Like it or not, other managers will not look on the Keegan affair favourably and would seek clarity on the matter if approached. Well, just because we haven't seen his job description doesn't mean a potential manager won't get to discuss it. They'll get to discuss it but I doubt it will change, I honestly when Redknapp came for the interview that was the only reason he didn't take it and, if it wasn't for that we'd have wobbly face as manager now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Oh look, my stalker has arrived, muttering the usual irrelevancies. Why don't you try and find something intelligent to say about my post? more irony. Do you or do you not think that Dennis Wise is a good DOF, and do you or do you not think that Mike Ashley will run a successful club in keeping with the recent history of the club and the last owners. Please debate this sensibly, give us your intelligent and reasoned response, and none of this hindsight bullshit that you excell in. It's all yours. since you two are clinically incapable of answering questions i will - assuming he had pivotal involvement in all first team signings and below, and given the budget constraints placed on him, he's doing a bang up job imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Oh look, my stalker has arrived, muttering the usual irrelevancies. Why don't you try and find something intelligent to say about my post? more irony. Do you or do you not think that Dennis Wise is a good DOF, and do you or do you not think that Mike Ashley will run a successful club in keeping with the recent history of the club and the last owners. Please debate this sensibly, give us your intelligent and reasoned response, and none of this hindsight bullshit that you excell in. It's all yours. I've bolded the one relevant bit. As we don't know precisely what his duties are, it's impossible to answer. As I've said, though, the fact that people didn't like him as a player is irrelevant and the issue of his ties to the club or region is irrelevant, but if player recruitment within a tight budget is part of his remit, he doesn't seem to doing too bad a job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Saying he's done a good job are exactly the same type of assumptions seeing as nobody really knows what he does. He recruits players. So it's his fault Keegan walked and we ended up in complete and utter turmoil? That'll be why people want him out then. See what I mean? No I fully understand why people want him out, I'm just saying he won't be sacked and he does a good job. How do you know he does a good job when you don't even know what it is? We know he recruits players, other wise his job title wouldn't be Executive Director (Football) - Recruitment or something to that effect I remember reaing it when he signed and thinking thats a bloody weird job title. I'll find a link later when I have enough time. I was under the impression it was his job to recruit young talent. However in January Kinnear then stated he'd need to speak to Wise about his first team signings. Aye, they basically lied. I trust the Sun more than I do statements on nufc.co.uk now. Maybe his role's changed, or evolved. Who knows? I can't say that the precise nature of Dennis Wise's job description strikes me as one of the club's major issues right now, though. I think in the context of us getting in a manager better than Joe Kinnear it's extremely relevant. Like it or not, other managers will not look on the Keegan affair favourably and would seek clarity on the matter if approached. Well, just because we haven't seen his job description doesn't mean a potential manager won't get to discuss it. They'll get to discuss it but I doubt it will change, I honestly when Redknapp came for the interview that was the only reason he didn't take it and, if it wasn't for that we'd have wobbly face as manager now. Even though Redknapp was never actually offered the job? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Oh look, my stalker has arrived, muttering the usual irrelevancies. Why don't you try and find something intelligent to say about my post? more irony. Do you or do you not think that Dennis Wise is a good DOF, and do you or do you not think that Mike Ashley will run a successful club in keeping with the recent history of the club and the last owners. Please debate this sensibly, give us your intelligent and reasoned response, and none of this hindsight bullshit that you excell in. It's all yours. I've bolded the one relevant bit. As we don't know precisely what his duties are, it's impossible to answer. As I've said, though, the fact that people didn't like him as a player is irrelevant and the issue of his ties to the club or region is irrelevant, but if player recruitment within a tight budget is part of his remit, he doesn't seem to doing too bad a job. what about Ashley ? As you are making excuses for Wise, what is your opinion on how Souness performed, given that he was certainly backed by the board, and you at the time supported all of his changes in personnel, particularly his sales. Why is it OK for one person to be a "twat" [words to that effect] and not another ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 What does Souness have to do with this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Icke - Son of God Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I do feel that I need to point out that all players that have apparently been discovered by Wise as a matter of fact haven't. Both Guthrie and Bassong were apparently KK signings and the rest have been suggested by Vetere and formerly Jiminez. Wise's job seems to be as a negotiator and general unsettling influence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I do feel that I need to point out that all players that have apparently been discovered by Wise as a matter of fact haven't. Both Guthrie and Bassong were apparently KK signings and the rest have been suggested by Vetere and formerly Jiminez. Wise's job seems to be as a negotiator and general unsettling influence. There's no way of us knowing either way whose signings they were. Which is kind of the point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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