Llambias Q&A with Chronicle: OP updated with Thursday's articles

[Mick]

 

What was the shortfall for 06/07?

 

I'm not sure, why?

[ikri]

I see. When you said debts what you really meant was day to day bills.

 

Yes, day to day bills like the tax man, short term loans, players wages, transfer instalments, that sort of thing.

What was the shortfall for 06/07?

 

£33 million apparently

 

http://www.football-finances.org.uk/newcastle/2007/profit13.gif

[Guest fading star]

 

What was the shortfall for 06/07?

 

I'm not sure, why?

Well, knowing how much extra money Shepherd needed to ’balance the books’ has a big impact on how he might have gone about doing it.

[Mick]

Well, knowing how much extra money Shepherd needed to balance the books has a big impact on how he might have gone about doing it.

 

The loss before tax was £34.2 million.

[Guest fading star]

Well, knowing how much extra money Shepherd needed to ’balance the books’ has a big impact on how he might have gone about doing it.

 

The loss before tax was £34.2 million.

Isn’t that the same loss as reported under 07/08 accounts?

[Mick]

Isnt that the same loss as reported under 07/08 accounts?

 

Yes, but the brackets means that it's from the year before.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

I'm not sure how we would have been in the same position as we would have had to find cash to pay our debts as Ashley wouldn't have been around to give us a loan.

 

Thats what you said. Yet Ashley if hadnt bought the club there would have been no pressure to pay off any of the debt ahead of time.

 

 

We have problems with cash, Ashley is lending the club money to pay day to day bills, not just the loans.  If Ashley wasn't here and giving us loans then who would have loaned us money for this purpose?

I see. When you said debts what you really meant was day to day bills.

 

Which are debts.

[indi]

NE5, can you post a link to the answer you gave about Shepherd leading us back to the Champions League because I can't find it.

 

the Halls and Shepherd ran the club, not Shepherd, and my reply is quite clear.

 

You can ask mandiarse to respond now.

 

 

 

Ok, well lets say Shepherd had bought the club, and not Ashley. Would he have led the club back to Champions League? I answered your question about the Magpie group so its your turn to answer mine.

 

but he hasn't bought the club, and he never owned it. The Halls AND Shepherd, on the other hand, DID. And have been the best owners in the last 50 years by far.

 

 

 

So had Ashley not bought the club where do you think we would be now. I reckon more or less in the same league position.

 

no I don't think so. I don't doubt for a moment that the old regime would have taken far more positive steps to even avoid relegation than Ashley has done, never mind try to stave of this so called "mediocrity" [for those who haven't seen it yet].

 

 

 

 

 

Where do you think the money would have come for to pay for these "positive steps"? We were mortgaged up to the hilt as it was.

The extra TV money. Advance season ticket deals.  Third party investment. A share flotation. Increasing season ticket prices. Selling the naming rights for the Gallowgate would have raised few million. Not sacking Big Sam another £6m. Not appointing a director of football a million a year. Not sacking Keegan £8m. Then there’s extra incoming money for finishing higher up the table, and the better ticket sales that came with better results.

 

You have to remember that we’ve spent nothing on new players since Ashley took over. Finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldn’t be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’.

 

A bit like General Motors then?

Not even vaguely similar. Supporting a football isn’t anything like buying car. If you bought a Ford and it was s*** would you buy another one out of loyalty? 

 

You were the one who made the comparison. You said that an established business with a large customer base should have no problems raising money for investment. I gave an example of a f***ing huge company with a massive customer base, who's had to go cap in hand to the US government for money simply to stay in business, thereby disproving your point and showing (as if it ever actually needed to be done) that you don't know what you're on about, and now you're trying to move the goal posts, goal posts that you put there in the first place!

Howay then - what was I comparing NUFC with?

 

 

Have you forgotten already?

 

The extra TV money. Advance season ticket deals.  Third party investment. A share flotation. Increasing season ticket prices. Selling the naming rights for the Gallowgate would have raised few million. Not sacking Big Sam another £6m. Not appointing a director of football a million a year. Not sacking Keegan £8m. Then there’s extra incoming money for finishing higher up the table, and the better ticket sales that came with better results.

 

You have to remember that we’ve spent nothing on new players since Ashley took over. Finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldn’t be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

That'll be you comparing NUFC to a "well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’".

Not a US car manufacturer then.

 

 

It's not comparison. Before Ashley acquired Newcastle United was an established business with a loyal customer base.

 

How is GM not a "well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’"?

 

The only thing that is even close to being debatable in that description is "loyal" and with a market share as large as theirs it's pedantry of the highest order to argue about whether or not those sales are to people who always buy GM or not. If you really want to go there though, I'd have thought a significant number of them would be repeat customers.

 

As for the rest of the component parts of your statement:

 

- GM in the guise of Oldsmobile was formed in 1897, so only five years after NUFC.

- GM employs 252,000 people worldwide in 140 countries, in 2008, GM sold 8.35 million vehicles, generating over $166bn of revenue.

 

On a day when the Dow Jones industrial average fell to its lowest level since 1997, it might be easy to overlook another milestone: The combined value of all outstanding shares in General Motors Corp. fell below $1-billion (U.S.) after the shares tumbled to a low of $1.52, down 48 cents. That puts the shares on track for their lowest close in 71 years.

 

The dip put the auto maker's market capitalization at just $929-million

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090220.WBmarkets20090220140815/WBStory/WBmarkets

 

So on it's worst day for 71 years it's still worth almost a billion dollars, and I think the above more than proves it is an established company with a large customer base, wouldn't you say?

 

Earlier this week GM decided that it was having such a hard time that it asked the US government for a $19bn handout, just to stay in business. So it's not actually that easy for a "well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’" to raise money for investment at the moment.

 

If you don't think it's a fair comparison then I remind you [again], it's your comparison.

[Guest fading star]

Isn’t that the same loss as reported under 07/08 accounts?

 

Yes, but the brackets means that it's from the year before.

So what was our operating loss for 07/08?

[madras]

I'm not sure how we would have been in the same position as we would have had to find cash to pay our debts as Ashley wouldn't have been around to give us a loan.

 

Thats what you said. Yet Ashley if hadnt bought the club there would have been no pressure to pay off any of the debt ahead of time.

 

 

We have problems with cash, Ashley is lending the club money to pay day to day bills, not just the loans.  If Ashley wasn't here and giving us loans then who would have loaned us money for this purpose?

I see. When you said debts what you really meant was day to day bills.

 

Which are debts.

gonna try that one with my bank.......they aren't really debts they are day to day bills.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

I'm not sure how we would have been in the same position as we would have had to find cash to pay our debts as Ashley wouldn't have been around to give us a loan.

 

Thats what you said. Yet Ashley if hadnt bought the club there would have been no pressure to pay off any of the debt ahead of time.

 

 

We have problems with cash, Ashley is lending the club money to pay day to day bills, not just the loans.  If Ashley wasn't here and giving us loans then who would have loaned us money for this purpose?

I see. When you said debts what you really meant was day to day bills.

 

Which are debts.

gonna try that one with my bank.......they aren't really debts they are day to day bills.

 

Aye if I haven't owed them for very long they don't even count.  mackems.gif

[Mick]

So what was our operating loss for 07/08?

 

£20.3 million and before you ask, £54.5 million. 

 

Edit

 

That was loss before tax, operating loss for the two years was £50.7 million.

 

2nd edit

 

Where was that coming from without Ashley?

[Guest fading star]

NE5, can you post a link to the answer you gave about Shepherd leading us back to the Champions League because I can't find it.

 

the Halls and Shepherd ran the club, not Shepherd, and my reply is quite clear.

 

You can ask mandiarse to respond now.

 

 

 

Ok, well lets say Shepherd had bought the club, and not Ashley. Would he have led the club back to Champions League? I answered your question about the Magpie group so its your turn to answer mine.

 

but he hasn't bought the club, and he never owned it. The Halls AND Shepherd, on the other hand, DID. And have been the best owners in the last 50 years by far.

 

 

 

So had Ashley not bought the club where do you think we would be now. I reckon more or less in the same league position.

 

no I don't think so. I don't doubt for a moment that the old regime would have taken far more positive steps to even avoid relegation than Ashley has done, never mind try to stave of this so called "mediocrity" [for those who haven't seen it yet].

 

 

 

 

 

Where do you think the money would have come for to pay for these "positive steps"? We were mortgaged up to the hilt as it was.

The extra TV money. Advance season ticket deals.  Third party investment. A share flotation. Increasing season ticket prices. Selling the naming rights for the Gallowgate would have raised few million. Not sacking Big Sam another £6m. Not appointing a director of football a million a year. Not sacking Keegan £8m. Then there’s extra incoming money for finishing higher up the table, and the better ticket sales that came with better results.

 

You have to remember that we’ve spent nothing on new players since Ashley took over. Finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldn’t be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’.

 

A bit like General Motors then?

Not even vaguely similar. Supporting a football isn’t anything like buying car. If you bought a Ford and it was s*** would you buy another one out of loyalty? 

 

You were the one who made the comparison. You said that an established business with a large customer base should have no problems raising money for investment. I gave an example of a f***ing huge company with a massive customer base, who's had to go cap in hand to the US government for money simply to stay in business, thereby disproving your point and showing (as if it ever actually needed to be done) that you don't know what you're on about, and now you're trying to move the goal posts, goal posts that you put there in the first place!

Howay then - what was I comparing NUFC with?

 

 

Have you forgotten already?

 

The extra TV money. Advance season ticket deals.  Third party investment. A share flotation. Increasing season ticket prices. Selling the naming rights for the Gallowgate would have raised few million. Not sacking Big Sam another £6m. Not appointing a director of football a million a year. Not sacking Keegan £8m. Then there’s extra incoming money for finishing higher up the table, and the better ticket sales that came with better results.

 

You have to remember that we’ve spent nothing on new players since Ashley took over. Finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldn’t be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

That'll be you comparing NUFC to a "well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’".

Not a US car manufacturer then.

 

 

It's not comparison. Before Ashley acquired Newcastle United was an established business with a loyal customer base.

 

How is GM not a "well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’"?

 

The only thing that is even close to being debatable in that description is "loyal" and with a market share as large as theirs it's pedantry of the highest order to argue about whether or not those sales are to people who always buy GM or not. If you really want to go there though, I'd have thought a significant number of them would be repeat customers.

 

As for the rest of the component parts of your statement:

 

- GM in the guise of Oldsmobile was formed in 1897, so only five years after NUFC.

- GM employs 252,000 people worldwide in 140 countries, in 2008, GM sold 8.35 million vehicles, generating over $166bn of revenue.

 

On a day when the Dow Jones industrial average fell to its lowest level since 1997, it might be easy to overlook another milestone: The combined value of all outstanding shares in General Motors Corp. fell below $1-billion (U.S.) after the shares tumbled to a low of $1.52, down 48 cents. That puts the shares on track for their lowest close in 71 years.

 

The dip put the auto maker's market capitalization at just $929-million

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090220.WBmarkets20090220140815/WBStory/WBmarkets

 

So on it's worst day for 71 years it's still worth almost a billion dollars, and I think the above more than proves it is an established company with a large customer base, wouldn't you say?

 

Earlier this week GM decided that it was having such a hard time that it asked the US government for a $19bn handout, just to stay in business. So it's not actually that easy for a "well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’" to raise money for investment at the moment.

 

If you don't think it's a fair comparison then I remind you [again], it's your comparison.

Because their customers stopped buying their cars and GM had to be bailed out the US government. 

[Liam Liam Liam O]

So what was our operating loss for 07/08?

 

£20.3 million and before you ask, £54.5 million. 

 

Edit

 

That was loss before tax, operating loss for the two years was £50.7 million.

 

2nd edit

 

Where was that coming from without Ashley?

 

That's frightening really.

 

And there won't be an answer from anyone re your second edit.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

NE5, can you post a link to the answer you gave about Shepherd leading us back to the Champions League because I can't find it.

 

the Halls and Shepherd ran the club, not Shepherd, and my reply is quite clear.

 

You can ask mandiarse to respond now.

 

 

 

Ok, well lets say Shepherd had bought the club, and not Ashley. Would he have led the club back to Champions League? I answered your question about the Magpie group so its your turn to answer mine.

 

but he hasn't bought the club, and he never owned it. The Halls AND Shepherd, on the other hand, DID. And have been the best owners in the last 50 years by far.

 

 

 

So had Ashley not bought the club where do you think we would be now. I reckon more or less in the same league position.

 

no I don't think so. I don't doubt for a moment that the old regime would have taken far more positive steps to even avoid relegation than Ashley has done, never mind try to stave of this so called "mediocrity" [for those who haven't seen it yet].

 

 

 

 

 

Where do you think the money would have come for to pay for these "positive steps"? We were mortgaged up to the hilt as it was.

The extra TV money. Advance season ticket deals.  Third party investment. A share flotation. Increasing season ticket prices. Selling the naming rights for the Gallowgate would have raised few million. Not sacking Big Sam another £6m. Not appointing a director of football a million a year. Not sacking Keegan £8m. Then theres extra incoming money for finishing higher up the table, and the better ticket sales that came with better results.

 

You have to remember that weve spent nothing on new players since Ashley took over. Finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldnt be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal customer base.

 

A bit like General Motors then?

Not even vaguely similar. Supporting a football isnt anything like buying car. If you bought a Ford and it was s*** would you buy another one out of loyalty? 

 

You were the one who made the comparison. You said that an established business with a large customer base should have no problems raising money for investment. I gave an example of a f***ing huge company with a massive customer base, who's had to go cap in hand to the US government for money simply to stay in business, thereby disproving your point and showing (as if it ever actually needed to be done) that you don't know what you're on about, and now you're trying to move the goal posts, goal posts that you put there in the first place!

Howay then - what was I comparing NUFC with?

 

 

Have you forgotten already?

 

The extra TV money. Advance season ticket deals.  Third party investment. A share flotation. Increasing season ticket prices. Selling the naming rights for the Gallowgate would have raised few million. Not sacking Big Sam another £6m. Not appointing a director of football a million a year. Not sacking Keegan £8m. Then theres extra incoming money for finishing higher up the table, and the better ticket sales that came with better results.

 

You have to remember that weve spent nothing on new players since Ashley took over. Finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldnt be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal customer base.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

That'll be you comparing NUFC to a "well established business with a large and loyal customer base".

Not a US car manufacturer then.

 

 

It's not comparison. Before Ashley acquired Newcastle United was an established business with a loyal customer base.

 

How is GM not a "well established business with a large and loyal customer base"?

 

The only thing that is even close to being debatable in that description is "loyal" and with a market share as large as theirs it's pedantry of the highest order to argue about whether or not those sales are to people who always buy GM or not. If you really want to go there though, I'd have thought a significant number of them would be repeat customers.

 

As for the rest of the component parts of your statement:

 

- GM in the guise of Oldsmobile was formed in 1897, so only five years after NUFC.

- GM employs 252,000 people worldwide in 140 countries, in 2008, GM sold 8.35 million vehicles, generating over $166bn of revenue.

 

On a day when the Dow Jones industrial average fell to its lowest level since 1997, it might be easy to overlook another milestone: The combined value of all outstanding shares in General Motors Corp. fell below $1-billion (U.S.) after the shares tumbled to a low of $1.52, down 48 cents. That puts the shares on track for their lowest close in 71 years.

 

The dip put the auto maker's market capitalization at just $929-million

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090220.WBmarkets20090220140815/WBStory/WBmarkets

 

So on it's worst day for 71 years it's still worth almost a billion dollars, and I think the above more than proves it is an established company with a large customer base, wouldn't you say?

 

Earlier this week GM decided that it was having such a hard time that it asked the US government for a $19bn handout, just to stay in business. So it's not actually that easy for a "well established business with a large and loyal customer base" to raise money for investment at the moment.

 

If you don't think it's a fair comparison then I remind you [again], it's your comparison.

Because their customers stopped buying their cars and GM had to be bailed out the US government. 

 

He only had himself to blame after making Decky cry.

[indi]

NE5, can you post a link to the answer you gave about Shepherd leading us back to the Champions League because I can't find it.

 

the Halls and Shepherd ran the club, not Shepherd, and my reply is quite clear.

 

You can ask mandiarse to respond now.

 

 

 

Ok, well lets say Shepherd had bought the club, and not Ashley. Would he have led the club back to Champions League? I answered your question about the Magpie group so its your turn to answer mine.

 

but he hasn't bought the club, and he never owned it. The Halls AND Shepherd, on the other hand, DID. And have been the best owners in the last 50 years by far.

 

 

 

So had Ashley not bought the club where do you think we would be now. I reckon more or less in the same league position.

 

no I don't think so. I don't doubt for a moment that the old regime would have taken far more positive steps to even avoid relegation than Ashley has done, never mind try to stave of this so called "mediocrity" [for those who haven't seen it yet].

 

 

 

 

 

Where do you think the money would have come for to pay for these "positive steps"? We were mortgaged up to the hilt as it was.

The extra TV money. Advance season ticket deals.  Third party investment. A share flotation. Increasing season ticket prices. Selling the naming rights for the Gallowgate would have raised few million. Not sacking Big Sam another £6m. Not appointing a director of football a million a year. Not sacking Keegan £8m. Then there’s extra incoming money for finishing higher up the table, and the better ticket sales that came with better results.

 

You have to remember that we’ve spent nothing on new players since Ashley took over. Finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldn’t be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’.

 

A bit like General Motors then?

Not even vaguely similar. Supporting a football isn’t anything like buying car. If you bought a Ford and it was s*** would you buy another one out of loyalty? 

 

You were the one who made the comparison. You said that an established business with a large customer base should have no problems raising money for investment. I gave an example of a f***ing huge company with a massive customer base, who's had to go cap in hand to the US government for money simply to stay in business, thereby disproving your point and showing (as if it ever actually needed to be done) that you don't know what you're on about, and now you're trying to move the goal posts, goal posts that you put there in the first place!

Howay then - what was I comparing NUFC with?

 

 

Have you forgotten already?

 

The extra TV money. Advance season ticket deals.  Third party investment. A share flotation. Increasing season ticket prices. Selling the naming rights for the Gallowgate would have raised few million. Not sacking Big Sam another £6m. Not appointing a director of football a million a year. Not sacking Keegan £8m. Then there’s extra incoming money for finishing higher up the table, and the better ticket sales that came with better results.

 

You have to remember that we’ve spent nothing on new players since Ashley took over. Finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldn’t be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

That'll be you comparing NUFC to a "well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’".

Not a US car manufacturer then.

 

 

It's not comparison. Before Ashley acquired Newcastle United was an established business with a loyal customer base.

 

How is GM not a "well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’"?

 

The only thing that is even close to being debatable in that description is "loyal" and with a market share as large as theirs it's pedantry of the highest order to argue about whether or not those sales are to people who always buy GM or not. If you really want to go there though, I'd have thought a significant number of them would be repeat customers.

 

As for the rest of the component parts of your statement:

 

- GM in the guise of Oldsmobile was formed in 1897, so only five years after NUFC.

- GM employs 252,000 people worldwide in 140 countries, in 2008, GM sold 8.35 million vehicles, generating over $166bn of revenue.

 

On a day when the Dow Jones industrial average fell to its lowest level since 1997, it might be easy to overlook another milestone: The combined value of all outstanding shares in General Motors Corp. fell below $1-billion (U.S.) after the shares tumbled to a low of $1.52, down 48 cents. That puts the shares on track for their lowest close in 71 years.

 

The dip put the auto maker's market capitalization at just $929-million

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090220.WBmarkets20090220140815/WBStory/WBmarkets

 

So on it's worst day for 71 years it's still worth almost a billion dollars, and I think the above more than proves it is an established company with a large customer base, wouldn't you say?

 

Earlier this week GM decided that it was having such a hard time that it asked the US government for a $19bn handout, just to stay in business. So it's not actually that easy for a "well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’" to raise money for investment at the moment.

 

If you don't think it's a fair comparison then I remind you [again], it's your comparison.

Because their customers stopped buying their cars and GM had to be bailed out the US government. 

 

Do you even know what point you're trying to make?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did I not see empty seats at the last game?

[Mick]

 

That's frightening really.

 

And there won't be an answer from anyone re your second edit.

 

I agree, yet we'll no doubt hear "Ashley Out" on Sunday at the Monument.  Talk about not being able to see past your nose.

[indi]

NE5, can you post a link to the answer you gave about Shepherd leading us back to the Champions League because I can't find it.

 

the Halls and Shepherd ran the club, not Shepherd, and my reply is quite clear.

 

You can ask mandiarse to respond now.

 

 

 

Ok, well lets say Shepherd had bought the club, and not Ashley. Would he have led the club back to Champions League? I answered your question about the Magpie group so its your turn to answer mine.

 

but he hasn't bought the club, and he never owned it. The Halls AND Shepherd, on the other hand, DID. And have been the best owners in the last 50 years by far.

 

 

 

So had Ashley not bought the club where do you think we would be now. I reckon more or less in the same league position.

 

no I don't think so. I don't doubt for a moment that the old regime would have taken far more positive steps to even avoid relegation than Ashley has done, never mind try to stave of this so called "mediocrity" [for those who haven't seen it yet].

 

 

 

 

 

Where do you think the money would have come for to pay for these "positive steps"? We were mortgaged up to the hilt as it was.

The extra TV money. Advance season ticket deals.  Third party investment. A share flotation. Increasing season ticket prices. Selling the naming rights for the Gallowgate would have raised few million. Not sacking Big Sam another £6m. Not appointing a director of football a million a year. Not sacking Keegan £8m. Then theres extra incoming money for finishing higher up the table, and the better ticket sales that came with better results.

 

You have to remember that weve spent nothing on new players since Ashley took over. Finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldnt be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal customer base.

 

A bit like General Motors then?

Not even vaguely similar. Supporting a football isnt anything like buying car. If you bought a Ford and it was s*** would you buy another one out of loyalty? 

 

You were the one who made the comparison. You said that an established business with a large customer base should have no problems raising money for investment. I gave an example of a f***ing huge company with a massive customer base, who's had to go cap in hand to the US government for money simply to stay in business, thereby disproving your point and showing (as if it ever actually needed to be done) that you don't know what you're on about, and now you're trying to move the goal posts, goal posts that you put there in the first place!

Howay then - what was I comparing NUFC with?

 

 

Have you forgotten already?

 

The extra TV money. Advance season ticket deals.  Third party investment. A share flotation. Increasing season ticket prices. Selling the naming rights for the Gallowgate would have raised few million. Not sacking Big Sam another £6m. Not appointing a director of football a million a year. Not sacking Keegan £8m. Then theres extra incoming money for finishing higher up the table, and the better ticket sales that came with better results.

 

You have to remember that weve spent nothing on new players since Ashley took over. Finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldnt be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal customer base.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

That'll be you comparing NUFC to a "well established business with a large and loyal customer base".

Not a US car manufacturer then.

 

 

It's not comparison. Before Ashley acquired Newcastle United was an established business with a loyal customer base.

 

How is GM not a "well established business with a large and loyal customer base"?

 

The only thing that is even close to being debatable in that description is "loyal" and with a market share as large as theirs it's pedantry of the highest order to argue about whether or not those sales are to people who always buy GM or not. If you really want to go there though, I'd have thought a significant number of them would be repeat customers.

 

As for the rest of the component parts of your statement:

 

- GM in the guise of Oldsmobile was formed in 1897, so only five years after NUFC.

- GM employs 252,000 people worldwide in 140 countries, in 2008, GM sold 8.35 million vehicles, generating over $166bn of revenue.

 

On a day when the Dow Jones industrial average fell to its lowest level since 1997, it might be easy to overlook another milestone: The combined value of all outstanding shares in General Motors Corp. fell below $1-billion (U.S.) after the shares tumbled to a low of $1.52, down 48 cents. That puts the shares on track for their lowest close in 71 years.

 

The dip put the auto maker's market capitalization at just $929-million

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090220.WBmarkets20090220140815/WBStory/WBmarkets

 

So on it's worst day for 71 years it's still worth almost a billion dollars, and I think the above more than proves it is an established company with a large customer base, wouldn't you say?

 

Earlier this week GM decided that it was having such a hard time that it asked the US government for a $19bn handout, just to stay in business. So it's not actually that easy for a "well established business with a large and loyal customer base" to raise money for investment at the moment.

 

If you don't think it's a fair comparison then I remind you [again], it's your comparison.

Because their customers stopped buying their cars and GM had to be bailed out the US government. 

 

He only had himself to blame after making Decky cry.

 

If only we'd all known that was all that was needed to get a huge wedge from the government.

[Guest fading star]

So what was our operating loss for 07/08?

 

£20.3 million and before you ask, £54.5 million. 

 

Edit

 

That was loss before tax, operating loss for the two years was £50.7 million.

 

2nd edit

 

Where was that coming from without Ashley?

I’ve already suggested some ways Shepherd could have raised some extra cash, but would concede that finding £60m to cover outgoings and strengthen the squad would have been difficult.

 

What has to be concern is that for all Ashley’s cost cutting measures our operating loss was still £20m. 

[madras]

So what was our operating loss for 07/08?

 

£20.3 million and before you ask, £54.5 million. 

 

Edit

 

That was loss before tax, operating loss for the two years was £50.7 million.

 

2nd edit

 

Where was that coming from without Ashley?

I’ve already suggested some ways Shepherd could have raised some extra cash, but would concede that finding £60m to cover outgoings and strengthen the squad would have been difficult.

 

What has to be concern is that for all Ashley’s cost cutting measures our operating loss was still £20m. 

the major cost was wages (nigh on 70% of turnover i think) the summer may well see that change.

[Guest toonlass]

So what was our operating loss for 07/08?

 

£20.3 million and before you ask, £54.5 million. 

 

Edit

 

That was loss before tax, operating loss for the two years was £50.7 million.

 

2nd edit

 

Where was that coming from without Ashley?

I’ve already suggested some ways Shepherd could have raised some extra cash, but would concede that finding £60m to cover outgoings and strengthen the squad would have been difficult.

 

What has to be concern is that for all Ashley’s cost cutting measures our operating loss was still £20m. 

 

Totally agree, but Ashley has cut the cloth accordingly to stop the rot in the debt scales. If we stay up this year we can think about starting to climb again. Before that though, we need to think about stabilising before we end up where we were before John Hall came in.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

So what was our operating loss for 07/08?

 

£20.3 million and before you ask, £54.5 million. 

 

Edit

 

That was loss before tax, operating loss for the two years was £50.7 million.

 

2nd edit

 

Where was that coming from without Ashley?

Ive already suggested some ways Shepherd could have raised some extra cash, but would concede that finding £60m to cover outgoings and strengthen the squad would have been difficult.

 

What has to be concern is that for all Ashleys cost cutting measures our operating loss was still £20m. 

 

What else do you think he should have done to reduce it further?

[Guest fading star]

NE5, can you post a link to the answer you gave about Shepherd leading us back to the Champions League because I can't find it.

 

the Halls and Shepherd ran the club, not Shepherd, and my reply is quite clear.

 

You can ask mandiarse to respond now.

 

 

 

Ok, well lets say Shepherd had bought the club, and not Ashley. Would he have led the club back to Champions League? I answered your question about the Magpie group so its your turn to answer mine.

 

but he hasn't bought the club, and he never owned it. The Halls AND Shepherd, on the other hand, DID. And have been the best owners in the last 50 years by far.

 

 

 

So had Ashley not bought the club where do you think we would be now. I reckon more or less in the same league position.

 

no I don't think so. I don't doubt for a moment that the old regime would have taken far more positive steps to even avoid relegation than Ashley has done, never mind try to stave of this so called "mediocrity" [for those who haven't seen it yet].

 

 

 

 

 

Where do you think the money would have come for to pay for these "positive steps"? We were mortgaged up to the hilt as it was.

The extra TV money. Advance season ticket deals.  Third party investment. A share flotation. Increasing season ticket prices. Selling the naming rights for the Gallowgate would have raised few million. Not sacking Big Sam another £6m. Not appointing a director of football a million a year. Not sacking Keegan £8m. Then there’s extra incoming money for finishing higher up the table, and the better ticket sales that came with better results.

 

You have to remember that we’ve spent nothing on new players since Ashley took over. Finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldn’t be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’.

 

A bit like General Motors then?

Not even vaguely similar. Supporting a football isn’t anything like buying car. If you bought a Ford and it was s*** would you buy another one out of loyalty? 

 

You were the one who made the comparison. You said that an established business with a large customer base should have no problems raising money for investment. I gave an example of a f***ing huge company with a massive customer base, who's had to go cap in hand to the US government for money simply to stay in business, thereby disproving your point and showing (as if it ever actually needed to be done) that you don't know what you're on about, and now you're trying to move the goal posts, goal posts that you put there in the first place!

Howay then - what was I comparing NUFC with?

 

 

Have you forgotten already?

 

The extra TV money. Advance season ticket deals.  Third party investment. A share flotation. Increasing season ticket prices. Selling the naming rights for the Gallowgate would have raised few million. Not sacking Big Sam another £6m. Not appointing a director of football a million a year. Not sacking Keegan £8m. Then there’s extra incoming money for finishing higher up the table, and the better ticket sales that came with better results.

 

You have to remember that we’ve spent nothing on new players since Ashley took over. Finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldn’t be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

That'll be you comparing NUFC to a "well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’".

Not a US car manufacturer then.

 

 

It's not comparison. Before Ashley acquired Newcastle United was an established business with a loyal customer base.

 

How is GM not a "well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’"?

 

The only thing that is even close to being debatable in that description is "loyal" and with a market share as large as theirs it's pedantry of the highest order to argue about whether or not those sales are to people who always buy GM or not. If you really want to go there though, I'd have thought a significant number of them would be repeat customers.

 

As for the rest of the component parts of your statement:

 

- GM in the guise of Oldsmobile was formed in 1897, so only five years after NUFC.

- GM employs 252,000 people worldwide in 140 countries, in 2008, GM sold 8.35 million vehicles, generating over $166bn of revenue.

 

On a day when the Dow Jones industrial average fell to its lowest level since 1997, it might be easy to overlook another milestone: The combined value of all outstanding shares in General Motors Corp. fell below $1-billion (U.S.) after the shares tumbled to a low of $1.52, down 48 cents. That puts the shares on track for their lowest close in 71 years.

 

The dip put the auto maker's market capitalization at just $929-million

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090220.WBmarkets20090220140815/WBStory/WBmarkets

 

So on it's worst day for 71 years it's still worth almost a billion dollars, and I think the above more than proves it is an established company with a large customer base, wouldn't you say?

 

Earlier this week GM decided that it was having such a hard time that it asked the US government for a $19bn handout, just to stay in business. So it's not actually that easy for a "well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’" to raise money for investment at the moment.

 

If you don't think it's a fair comparison then I remind you [again], it's your comparison.

Because their customers stopped buying their cars and GM had to be bailed out the US government. 

 

Do you even know what point you're trying to make?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did I not see empty seats at the last game?

Yes, finding £25-30m for squad strengthening over a couple of season shouldn’t be that difficult for a well established business with a large and loyal ’customer base’.

 

[quayside]

So what was our operating loss for 07/08?

 

£20.3 million and before you ask, £54.5 million. 

 

Edit

 

That was loss before tax, operating loss for the two years was £50.7 million.

 

2nd edit

 

Where was that coming from without Ashley?

 

That's frightening really.

 

And there won't be an answer from anyone re your second edit.

 

Haven't got the accounts to hand but the accumulated "cash" losses up to July 2007 were only funded in one way - external debt. And Ashley paid it off when he bought the club. As I recall £44 million was effectively the "mortgage" on the stadium and the rest of the £70 million of debt had funded the trading cash losses. There were any number of loans taken out secured on a variety of things, the one that sticks in my mind is the one secured on future season ticket revenue. How any of that debt would be perceived  in the banking climate of 2009 is anyone's guess.

[OzzieMandias]

If you're not telling a brazen lie, it would be easy to prove me wrong by linking to your "answer".

 

But you can't, because you haven't answered it.

 

Honest, it's like dealing with a five-year-old.

 

For the last time. If you back your managers and have a big fanbase like we do, then you can qualify for the Champions League, they had proved they knew how to do it.

 

So. In accordance with your prediction which is in my sig, do you think Ashley will do better or even match them, and do you think that an unbacked Joe Kinnear is more qualified to do it than a backed manager who has won 4 titles with 2 different clubs and 3 manager of the year awards.

 

A 4 year old could answer this.

 

 

 

So, if that's an answer, let's try and translate it from NE5 bullshit into English.

 

Do you mean that you honestly think Shepherd was going to get us back into the Champions League?

 

A simple yes or no will suffice. Any other answer isn't an answer.