U23s & Academy

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

I'm with the Spanish Coach on this one.

 

You can teach a kid how to kick a ball, you can't teach them to be 6' tall and 15 stone of muscle. There's a game a play as a warm up with my kids, I call it tag pass (not original I know!).

 

Basically, the team with the ball have to pass it, and the defending team have to to 'tag' whoever has the ball. It might sound daft, but its a way for them to learn how to deal with a pressing team. You have to keep the ball moving to tire them out and to avoid being 'tagged' (tackled). There's a smart kid who will hold onto the ball until the defender is close and play a quick sharp ball to a team mate in space.

 

I never do any physical training with my U11s, there's just no point. Their body hasn't developed, and won't develop for at least another three years. Sadly, English Academies don't follow that plan, at least the one I know about. Several coaches I've talked to have all said the same thing. When that scout comes along and watches the game, and comes up to with his list of the most 'talented' its really the list of who's the tallest. That's all they're interested in. Tall kids who will dominate at youth level against normal sized kids.

 

Which means that when they get into their late teens they hit a brick wall when they face other naturally larger teams, as they don't know how to cope with the physical game. Even though they've spent their youth being the big imposing physical player, when they come up against other big teams they just don't have the technique to deal with other big teams. Its stupid.

 

I'd love to do some training in Italy and Holland, not sure how much it would be or if its even possible. The more books I read about different cultures and their approach to football, the more I want to know and learn.

 

As for is it the norm amongst grassroots to push physical over technique, I can't say. I haven't spoken to enough coaches and it'll depend on what grassroots team you talk to you. There's a kid in my team that was at Wallsend, but was asked to leave as his 'passing wasn't good enough'. Yet he's the best passer in my team, I can only imagine they told him to find another club because he wasn't able to ping a ball 70 yards or something - which is daft as he's only 10.

The bigger youth teams put some crazy pressure on the kids, I hope I don't do that. I just let them play football, keep an eye out for the mistakes they make, see if they naturally pick up on them during the training (most do) and if they don't, only then will I step in and do a bit of direct coaching on the issue.

[Disco]

A simple example of this that can be seen at how much foreign defenders are in one on one tackling the tricky player situations that English players are and how a lot of foreign defenders are short arses - Ayala, Cannavaro etc.

[ponsaelius]

Well yeah, I totally agree with you. The attitude of the guy ringing in just riled me up totally, his logic was totally faulted for the reasons you just gave.

 

Surely the FA and footballing academies across the country have to realise what's best, and changes have to be made?

 

I personally don't think kids should step onto a full size pitch until they're about 13/14.

[Heron]

A player who can read the game will always be 10yards faster than a one that can run 100m in 5 seconds less...

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Well yeah, I totally agree with you. The attitude of the guy ringing in just riled me up totally, his logic was totally faulted for the reasons you just gave.

 

Surely the FA and footballing academies across the country have to realise what's best, and changes have to be made?

 

I personally don't think kids should step onto a full size pitch until they're about 13/14.

 

The FA are aware of this and do all they can to get the point across to coaches, teams and academies, but sadly that's where the buck stops. Professional Academies are 'success' driven, which means they'll always want to dominate at the various youth levels, and sadly the easiest way to do this is to get the 'bigger kids' for the age group in.

Its not always the case, but you'll be amazed at how big some of these 13/14/15 year olds are at times. Like I said, I'm not sure if this is the norm as I've only seen a really small cross section and that's only in the North East. I know the Sunderland Academy likes to promote technique over physicality, and from what we've seen I'd guess so do 'Boro.

 

I think the trend could slowly be changing, but its almost ingrained in the British DNA that being physical is better than being technical. It'll be a long time before we're anywhere near Spain, if at all. Partly due to Grassroot Coaches that phone up talksport, and partly because of how Academies are currently recruiting youth players. Strangely, I'd argue that the best 3 players I have are the 3 smallest. There's a kid who, and these are his words 'knows where the ball is going to go' and is in there for a tackle and interception. He 'knows if the player is good or bad' which means he knows if he has to get close to begin with or drop off. He's 10 years old and is reading the game like that already. I was amazed.

 

 

 

Kids don't step onto a full sized pitch till 13 now too, up until the U11s they play mini-soccer (7-a-side), then go to 11-a-side in a 3/4 pitch.

[Heron]

It's all about mindset, and the mindset of Britains younger coaches is different to that of the past. We aren't that far behind, we're just around the corner.

[ponsaelius]

Wow didn't know about kids and smaller pitches. I distinctly remember playing on massive fullsize fields when I was about 9/10, at the time it was just normal but looking back it was really ridiculous.

 

Dominating at Youth level really shouldn't matter, at all. Even U21 international football and the like. Ultimately the main purpose is producing players who will hopefully go on to play at a high level for clubs and then represent their country. It's all about development and promotion to the level that actually matters, the results in Youth football don't count for nothing at the end of the day.

 

 

[James]

Spain had been technique based for years without success, but how did they suddenly start improving their physique?

[Disco]

Spain had been technique based for years without success, but how did they suddenly start improving their physique?

 

Wouldn't say they had really.

[James]

Spain had been technique based for years without success, but how did they suddenly start improving their physique?

 

Wouldn't say they had really.

 

I'd say Ramos, Xavi, Iniesta and Villa are examples of much more physically adept players than Spain would have seen in past years, and this was crucial to their success.

[Optimistic Nut]

What about people like Miguel Nadal who was a fucking beast of a man.

[Disco]

Spain had been technique based for years without success, but how did they suddenly start improving their physique?

 

Wouldn't say they had really.

 

I'd say Ramos, Xavi, Iniesta and Villa are examples of much more physically adept players than Spain would have seen in past years, and this was crucial to their success.

 

Wouldn't say Xavi or Iniesta are anything about physicality myself. Two players that thrive totally on being superior technical and would still be quality regardless of their physique.

[Guest pont-toon]

took my 5 year old lad to a local fa coaching school over the summer hols and have to say i was well impressed with the coaching. Everything was based around controlling a football - no emphasis at that age on the physical side or passing & shooting.

 

 

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

It's all about mindset, and the mindset of Britains younger coaches is different to that of the past. We aren't that far behind, we're just around the corner.

 

That's it.

 

It'll be the younger generation of coaches that help start a 'Sea Change' in coaching approaching, and its those the FA are trying to reach out to. The older generation, not all, seem to be the one that are stuck in the Route One Joe Kinnear football. I'm not sure we're just around the corner though, I'd say 10-20 years before you notice it coming through Academies and Grassroots (if at all).

 

Wow didn't know about kids and smaller pitches. I distinctly remember playing on massive fullsize fields when I was about 9/10, at the time it was just normal but looking back it was really ridiculous.

 

You probably were, I was. Think it was change early 2003 or so, maybe a bit later, to bring Mini-Soccer in for the younger players. Less rules, more ball time, more room to develop.

 

All my football education growing up was - Quick Jog. Shots at the keeper then a training match. No coaching what so ever. The sad thing was, I couldn't get into another team to improve, as I needed to improve first! So it was basically learning through my own mistakes (if I realised they were mistakes) and watching football that I learned to play football. Probably why I stopped playing when I was 15... that and xbox. 

[Stu]

Spain had been technique based for years without success, but how did they suddenly start improving their physique?

 

Wouldn't say they had really.

 

I'd say Ramos, Xavi, Iniesta and Villa are examples of much more physically adept players than Spain would have seen in past years, and this was crucial to their success.

 

Wouldn't say Xavi or Iniesta are anything about physicality myself. Two players that thrive totally on being superior technical and would still be quality regardless of their physique.

[joeyt]

Fabio Zamblera is included in the reserves squad tonight, as is Sulzeer

[ponsaelius]

Ferguson, McLaughlin, Vuckic, Edmundsson and Kadar all ruled out through international call ups.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

I'll be there.   

[binnsy]

i wouldn't think Fabio will play, think he'll be on the bench and Airey will be up front.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Hope he gets on. Think I've seen him play 20mins of football for us, and it didn't leave a good lasting impression. Beside, his FM profile has been untouched for about 2 years as I've haven't seen him playing for AGES. 

[rocksammy]

Hope he gets on. Think I've seen him play 20mins of football for us, and it didn't leave a good lasting impression. Beside, his FM profile has been untouched for about 2 years as I've haven't seen him playing for AGES. 

 

just say he is amazing!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Hope he gets on. Think I've seen him play 20mins of football for us, and it didn't leave a good lasting impression. Beside, his FM profile has been untouched for about 2 years as I've haven't seen him playing for AGES. 

 

just say he is amazing!!!!!!!!!!

 

That's the Italian way of doing things!

[Guest geoffasenna]

im not sitting on no fence, hes utter gash, anyways besides that is it free entry this evening?? im guessing it is for ST but is it for those without ST's? Plus speaking about FM any idea of the release date? and can we get a new topic thread on FM on here anyone?

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,69939.0.html

[Guest geoffasenna]

http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,69939.0.html

 

spot on cheers