Hillsborough

[Revolution Number 9]

It's also fascinating how Hillsborough receives so much attention and positive support from the clubs abroad and their fans (Olympiacos, Dortmund, Atletico, Inter, AC Milan, Bayern, etc) , and not as much in England (Opposition fans) from what I've read or seen.

The entire Premiership, Football League, Conference and their fans have just observed a minute silence after a 6 minute delay to kick off.

 

 

 

I don't think it's necessarily the same as the solidarity shown by the clubs mentioned. A minutes silence is, to respect the dead, which is great and no level headed person wouldn't be against that, but doesn't really get behind the campaign in the same way as some of the clubs mentioned have.

I'd say that honestly, it's because fans of those clubs don't have anywhere near the level of exposure to the issue as those of English clubs do - doesn't matter how bad the tragedy was, what happened or who said what about it, it's guaranteed to eventually get to the point where a person is fed up of hearing about it.

[summerof69]

As awful as this was and should never have happened I always find it so odd that its in the media so often. It was a tragedy dont get me wrong but so were alot of things. It gets so much press its unreal. I am not a heartless b****** alot of people died that day but there are other tragedies that occurred in the past. Remember them on the anniversary but its over the top.

I'm baffled about them always talking about it and it always being in the media. Also what's up with the "Justice for the 96" instead of "R.I.P to the 96"?, particularly around the anniversary.

 

It's because the people of Liverpool have been campaigning for justice, in light of the injustice carried out by South Yorkshire police that day. It's in the media a lot, because 96 fans of the most successful club in English football, from one of the main cultural heartlands of the country died in a terrible crush. A crush which could have happened to any club at any time, and many fans around the time can tell story's of near misses. It has defined and shaped the culture of a major city and perhaps the rest of the country. An entire city no longer buys the largest selling newspaper. It's a campaign that has been backed by celebrities. On top of the large scale of death a light has been shown on to terrible police standards, corruption and collusion between the police, media and possibly even the government of the time.

[Stifler]

As awful as this was and should never have happened I always find it so odd that its in the media so often. It was a tragedy dont get me wrong but so were alot of things. It gets so much press its unreal. I am not a heartless b****** alot of people died that day but there are other tragedies that occurred in the past. Remember them on the anniversary but its over the top.

I'm baffled about them always talking about it and it always being in the media. Also what's up with the "Justice for the 96" instead of "R.I.P to the 96"?, particularly around the anniversary.

 

It's because the people of Liverpool have been campaigning for justice, in light of the injustice carried out by South Yorkshire police that day. It's in the media a lot, because 96 fans of the most successful club in English football, from one of the main cultural heartlands of the country died in a terrible crush. A crush which could have happened to any club at any time, and many fans around the time can tell story's of near misses. It has defined and shaped the culture of a major city and perhaps the rest of the country. An entire city no longer buys the largest selling newspaper. It's a campaign that has been backed by celebrities. On top of the large scale of death a light has been shown on to terrible police standards, corruption and collusion between the police, media and possibly even the government of the time.

There is a time and place for the justice part, at a time when you should be remembering them at an anniversary shouldn't it be time to reflect on the fact that 96 people lost their lives and not the circumstances around it?

 

How often do you see families of the Valley parade disaster asking for justice? There was just as many mistakes and different authorities to blame there for the people who died then as there is for Hillsbrough.

[summerof69]

As awful as this was and should never have happened I always find it so odd that its in the media so often. It was a tragedy dont get me wrong but so were alot of things. It gets so much press its unreal. I am not a heartless b****** alot of people died that day but there are other tragedies that occurred in the past. Remember them on the anniversary but its over the top.

I'm baffled about them always talking about it and it always being in the media. Also what's up with the "Justice for the 96" instead of "R.I.P to the 96"?, particularly around the anniversary.

 

It's because the people of Liverpool have been campaigning for justice, in light of the injustice carried out by South Yorkshire police that day. It's in the media a lot, because 96 fans of the most successful club in English football, from one of the main cultural heartlands of the country died in a terrible crush. A crush which could have happened to any club at any time, and many fans around the time can tell story's of near misses. It has defined and shaped the culture of a major city and perhaps the rest of the country. An entire city no longer buys the largest selling newspaper. It's a campaign that has been backed by celebrities. On top of the large scale of death a light has been shown on to terrible police standards, corruption and collusion between the police, media and possibly even the government of the time.

There is a time and place for the justice part, at a time when you should be remembering them at an anniversary shouldn't it be time to reflect on the fact that 96 people lost their lives and not the circumstances around it?

 

How often do you see families of the Valley parade disaster asking for justice? There was just as many mistakes and different authorities to blame there for the people who died then as there is for Hillsbrough.

 

 

I think the anniversary is probably the best time to campaign for justice,it's the time when the cause is most likely to gain significant media coverage. As to the second part of your post, i must admit i'm not aware of the injustices of what you speak of ? perhaps you could inform me. But even still, just because the families of the valley parade disaster don't campaign for justice, doesn't mean the Hillsbrough families shouldn't.

[JH]

"JFT96" has become a universal symbol and a mark of respect for the anniversary, rather than a constant dig at what went wrong tbh.

[Incognito]

As awful as this was and should never have happened I always find it so odd that its in the media so often. It was a tragedy dont get me wrong but so were alot of things. It gets so much press its unreal. I am not a heartless b****** alot of people died that day but there are other tragedies that occurred in the past. Remember them on the anniversary but its over the top.

I'm baffled about them always talking about it and it always being in the media. Also what's up with the "Justice for the 96" instead of "R.I.P to the 96"?, particularly around the anniversary.

 

It's because the people of Liverpool have been campaigning for justice, in light of the injustice carried out by South Yorkshire police that day. It's in the media a lot, because 96 fans of the most successful club in English football, from one of the main cultural heartlands of the country died in a terrible crush. A crush which could have happened to any club at any time, and many fans around the time can tell story's of near misses. It has defined and shaped the culture of a major city and perhaps the rest of the country. An entire city no longer buys the largest selling newspaper. It's a campaign that has been backed by celebrities. On top of the large scale of death a light has been shown on to terrible police standards, corruption and collusion between the police, media and possibly even the government of the time.

There is a time and place for the justice part, at a time when you should be remembering them at an anniversary shouldn't it be time to reflect on the fact that 96 people lost their lives and not the circumstances around it?

 

How often do you see families of the Valley parade disaster asking for justice? There was just as many mistakes and different authorities to blame there for the people who died then as there is for Hillsbrough.

 

Was there bollocks. Hillsborough and the injustice of it all will be traced right up to Thatcher's door. To think for a good 20 years it was pushed about that the whole disaster was down to Liverpool's supporters because of the Government of the day,  South Yorkshire police and that Tory MP whose name I cannot recall is frankly disgusting.

[Guest Dom77]

As awful as this was and should never have happened I always find it so odd that its in the media so often. It was a tragedy dont get me wrong but so were alot of things. It gets so much press its unreal. I am not a heartless b****** alot of people died that day but there are other tragedies that occurred in the past. Remember them on the anniversary but its over the top.

I'm baffled about them always talking about it and it always being in the media. Also what's up with the "Justice for the 96" instead of "R.I.P to the 96"?, particularly around the anniversary.

 

It's because the people of Liverpool have been campaigning for justice, in light of the injustice carried out by South Yorkshire police that day. It's in the media a lot, because 96 fans of the most successful club in English football, from one of the main cultural heartlands of the country died in a terrible crush. A crush which could have happened to any club at any time, and many fans around the time can tell story's of near misses. It has defined and shaped the culture of a major city and perhaps the rest of the country. An entire city no longer buys the largest selling newspaper. It's a campaign that has been backed by celebrities. On top of the large scale of death a light has been shown on to terrible police standards, corruption and collusion between the police, media and possibly even the government of the time.

There is a time and place for the justice part, at a time when you should be remembering them at an anniversary shouldn't it be time to reflect on the fact that 96 people lost their lives and not the circumstances around it?

 

How often do you see families of the Valley parade disaster asking for justice? There was just as many mistakes and different authorities to blame there for the people who died then as there is for Hillsbrough.

 

I've met a few Bradford fans over the years and always found them very supportive of the justice campaign.  This post from another site is pretty much what I've come across from Bradford fans.

 

 

 

"Can Hillsborough Compare to the Bradford City fire? – 8-11-11,10:20

'The citizens of Bradford behaved with quiet dignity and great courage.

'They did not harbour conspiracy theories. They did not seek endless further inquiries.

'They buried their dead, comforted the bereaved and succoured the injured.

'They organised a sensible compensation scheme and moved on.

'Is there, perhaps, a lesson there for the Hillsborough campaigners?'

 

 

These are the quotes by Sir Oliver Popplewell after an emotional Commons debate on the Hillsborough disaster in which 96 Liverpool fans died. Are they justifiable? No, of course they are not.

 

I speak as a Bradford City fan, whose dad was in the fire. He did not get injured or hurt that day but the memories will forever be there; a permanent scar in his mind. He says people have moved on, which is true, but they’ll never forget.

 

I remember standing at the monument to commemorate the dead of May 11th 1985 on the 20th anniversary of the fire. I stood in silence with my Dad as I remembered with dignity the people who died that day. A middle-aged man came over. He placed his palm on the wall, where the back of the old stand would have been, and broke down in tears. It was a significant moment that stands out for me whenever I think of the fire. The things people have been through are indescribable. There are no words to describe their emotions. My dad tells me how he remembers it like it was yesterday. The horrible images are normally too much to bear. The stories he tells me are that of death, of panic, and of his own guilt. The guilt seems to echo through his mind. He feels like he could have done more, I know he couldn’t have. I have nothing but admiration for the courage he showed that day, as he tells me tales of how he lifted people over the paddock walls. Those 56 people who died that day will never be forgotten. The memory of them and of the fans from Lincoln who died will always remain in the hearts of every Bradford City fan and relatives.

 

My father’s views on Popplewell are somewhat mixed. Popplewell’s views that Bradford city fans moved on with great dignity and great courage show the upmost respect, and this is true. They didn’t have to say anything; their actions spoke louder than words. The city came together in unity, and an unbreakable bond formed. Fans, players and loved ones turned up to nearly every funeral, everyone was treated as a family member.

 

But, my dad says the circumstances are so much different to those of the Hillsborough disaster.

 

Bradford fans know that this was just an accident. How could one blame the one individual who accidently put a supposed cigarette out that day into a plastic cup. Nobody ever blamed that one person, it could have happened to anybody on any given day. It was a tragic twist of fate on the day we’d just been presented with the 3rd division championship. The police could never be blamed. It is expected that they protect and preserve life, and that’s exactly what they did. Heroic acts combined with swift actions lowered the death toll. My dad remembers police, as well as fans, risking their lives to save others; one was set alight and luckily escaped. There were many acts of bravery that day.

 

Hillsborough is much different. The dead were used as scapegoats, and fans painted as villains. In contrast to Bradford, Police acted inadequately. Documents were never released, and still haven’t to this day. The families deserve to know the true facts about what happened that day. Popplewell tells them to move on, but how can they? How can they move on when the 96 haven’t been given the dignity and justice they so rightly deserve? Ex Judge Popplewell should show more respect. He should know not to judge people before he knows the true facts.

 

The tragedies are alike only in a good way. This being how fans and communities came together as one, and how respect and dignity to those that died was shown. They all shall never walk alone, and certainly shall never be forgotten.

Justice for the 96. RIP the 56."

 

 

[George Bailey]

Me too.

 

Only time I've ever been worried about my safety at a match. It was so packed  I spent the whole game watching over my left shoulder cos I couldn't turn to face the pitch. I also used to smoke like a chimney at the match, but at this one I couldn't get my tabs out of my pocket due to the crush.

How there wasn't fatalities, I'll never know.

 

yep.

Undoubtedly my scariest moment at any crowd/football match/ event.  I remember being twatted by a copper through the fence/gates dividing the paddocks becaue me n my mate asked him why the hell they werent opening them up.

Plus that idiot 'Alf Garnett' character running onto the pitch to gee up the crowd and I'm sure calling us northern monkeys...

Then seeing our fans in the corner getting pelted by coins from the fab Spurs fans...Oh the joys of 70s and 80s footlball.

[TheGuv]

Good post about the Bradford fire there.

 

My god that is awful viewing.

[Disco]

Second two paragraphs of that Bradford thing are superb.

 

Long may the Liverpool fans keep fighting and exposing the cover up that was.

[Stifler]

As awful as this was and should never have happened I always find it so odd that its in the media so often. It was a tragedy dont get me wrong but so were alot of things. It gets so much press its unreal. I am not a heartless b****** alot of people died that day but there are other tragedies that occurred in the past. Remember them on the anniversary but its over the top.

I'm baffled about them always talking about it and it always being in the media. Also what's up with the "Justice for the 96" instead of "R.I.P to the 96"?, particularly around the anniversary.

 

It's because the people of Liverpool have been campaigning for justice, in light of the injustice carried out by South Yorkshire police that day. It's in the media a lot, because 96 fans of the most successful club in English football, from one of the main cultural heartlands of the country died in a terrible crush. A crush which could have happened to any club at any time, and many fans around the time can tell story's of near misses. It has defined and shaped the culture of a major city and perhaps the rest of the country. An entire city no longer buys the largest selling newspaper. It's a campaign that has been backed by celebrities. On top of the large scale of death a light has been shown on to terrible police standards, corruption and collusion between the police, media and possibly even the government of the time.

There is a time and place for the justice part, at a time when you should be remembering them at an anniversary shouldn't it be time to reflect on the fact that 96 people lost their lives and not the circumstances around it?

 

How often do you see families of the Valley parade disaster asking for justice? There was just as many mistakes and different authorities to blame there for the people who died then as there is for Hillsbrough.

 

Was there bollocks. Hillsborough and the injustice of it all will be traced right up to Thatcher's door. To think for a good 20 years it was pushed about that the whole disaster was down to Liverpool's supporters because of the Government of the day,  South Yorkshire police and that Tory MP whose name I cannot recall is frankly disgusting.

There was a cover up, no one can deny that but to say it went all the way up to Thatchers door and the whole of South Yorkshire police were involved, and also that it was the only reason why the disaster happened is wrong. Only a hand few of police officers will know what was happening at the time, other police officers around the ground will not know exactly what went on and will only being going by the accounts of those who were initially close to the Leppings end who were forced by those above them to alter their initial accounts. Anyone outside of these police officers will only know what happened by 'official' (I use the term official loosely) accounts, this includes MP's and Thatcher, what Irvine Patnick said to Thatcher and the press was wrong, no one can deny that.

 

Even though cover up of the police's role in the disaster is disgusting there was other factors that equally contributed to it happening, this often gets forgotten about.

 

My initial post was trying to get the point across that Liverpool fans seem to spent a lot of time focused on why 96 people died and not the actual fact that 96 people died.

 

I used the Valley Parade disaster as comparison because although there was no cover up to explain why the disaster happened like Hillsborough a lot of things in the build up happened that should have happened which led to the disaster. For one the stand had already been condemned as unsafe (Bradford were actually pulling the stand down at the end of the season). There was no fire extinguishers around when there should have been. The rubbish beneath the stand should not have been allowed to build up and there had been reportedly been concerns of it being a fire risk raised previously. Lastly the turnstile exits had been locked shut, meaning fans had to go onto the pitch to escape when in a lot of cases using the exits would have been quicker.

 

You can argue that the Bradford fans have also never found justice (I don't think you can ever really find justice in these types of circumstances) as no one has actually been held acceptable for these failings which lead to the disaster.

 

 

[Kaizero]

As awful as this was and should never have happened I always find it so odd that its in the media so often. It was a tragedy dont get me wrong but so were alot of things. It gets so much press its unreal. I am not a heartless b****** alot of people died that day but there are other tragedies that occurred in the past. Remember them on the anniversary but its over the top.

I'm baffled about them always talking about it and it always being in the media. Also what's up with the "Justice for the 96" instead of "R.I.P to the 96"?, particularly around the anniversary.

 

It's because the people of Liverpool have been campaigning for justice, in light of the injustice carried out by South Yorkshire police that day. It's in the media a lot, because 96 fans of the most successful club in English football, from one of the main cultural heartlands of the country died in a terrible crush. A crush which could have happened to any club at any time, and many fans around the time can tell story's of near misses. It has defined and shaped the culture of a major city and perhaps the rest of the country. An entire city no longer buys the largest selling newspaper. It's a campaign that has been backed by celebrities. On top of the large scale of death a light has been shown on to terrible police standards, corruption and collusion between the police, media and possibly even the government of the time.

There is a time and place for the justice part, at a time when you should be remembering them at an anniversary shouldn't it be time to reflect on the fact that 96 people lost their lives and not the circumstances around it?

 

How often do you see families of the Valley parade disaster asking for justice? There was just as many mistakes and different authorities to blame there for the people who died then as there is for Hillsbrough.

 

Was there bollocks. Hillsborough and the injustice of it all will be traced right up to Thatcher's door. To think for a good 20 years it was pushed about that the whole disaster was down to Liverpool's supporters because of the Government of the day,  South Yorkshire police and that Tory MP whose name I cannot recall is frankly disgusting.

There was a cover up, no one can deny that but to say it went all the way up to Thatchers door and the whole of South Yorkshire police were involved, and also that it was the only reason why the disaster happened is wrong. Only a hand few of police officers will know what was happening at the time, other police officers around the ground will not know exactly what went on and will only being going by the accounts of those who were initially close to the Leppings end who were forced by those above them to alter their initial accounts. Anyone outside of these police officers will only know what happened by 'official' (I use the term official loosely) accounts, this includes MP's and Thatcher, what Irvine Patnick said to Thatcher and the press was wrong, no one can deny that.

 

Even though cover up of the police's role in the disaster is disgusting there was other factors that equally contributed to it happening, this often gets forgotten about.

 

My initial post was trying to get the point across that Liverpool fans seem to spent a lot of time focused on why 96 people died and not the actual fact that 96 people died.

 

I used the Valley Parade disaster as comparison because although there was no cover up to explain why the disaster happened like Hillsborough a lot of things in the build up happened that should have happened which led to the disaster. For one the stand had already been condemned as unsafe (Bradford were actually pulling the stand down at the end of the season). There was no fire extinguishers around when there should have been. The rubbish beneath the stand should not have been allowed to build up and there had been reportedly been concerns of it being a fire risk raised previously. Lastly the turnstile exits had been locked shut, meaning fans had to go onto the pitch to escape when in a lot of cases using the exits would have been quicker.

 

You can argue that the Bradford fans have also never found justice (I don't think you can ever really find justice in these types of circumstances) as no one has actually been held acceptable for these failings which lead to the disaster.

 

 

 

 

Just two completely different scenarios, man. I generally hate Liverpool fans for their tendency to wallow in self pity, but the Hillsborough incident goes beyond that. The victims were painted as the villains in an incident that many foresaw and should've been avoided.

[Interpolic]

Don't see how anyone can say that football fans in England haven't been supportive enough of the Hillsborough victims/situation like, completely miffed at that.

[Incognito]

As awful as this was and should never have happened I always find it so odd that its in the media so often. It was a tragedy dont get me wrong but so were alot of things. It gets so much press its unreal. I am not a heartless b****** alot of people died that day but there are other tragedies that occurred in the past. Remember them on the anniversary but its over the top.

I'm baffled about them always talking about it and it always being in the media. Also what's up with the "Justice for the 96" instead of "R.I.P to the 96"?, particularly around the anniversary.

 

It's because the people of Liverpool have been campaigning for justice, in light of the injustice carried out by South Yorkshire police that day. It's in the media a lot, because 96 fans of the most successful club in English football, from one of the main cultural heartlands of the country died in a terrible crush. A crush which could have happened to any club at any time, and many fans around the time can tell story's of near misses. It has defined and shaped the culture of a major city and perhaps the rest of the country. An entire city no longer buys the largest selling newspaper. It's a campaign that has been backed by celebrities. On top of the large scale of death a light has been shown on to terrible police standards, corruption and collusion between the police, media and possibly even the government of the time.

There is a time and place for the justice part, at a time when you should be remembering them at an anniversary shouldn't it be time to reflect on the fact that 96 people lost their lives and not the circumstances around it?

 

How often do you see families of the Valley parade disaster asking for justice? There was just as many mistakes and different authorities to blame there for the people who died then as there is for Hillsbrough.

 

Was there bollocks. Hillsborough and the injustice of it all will be traced right up to Thatcher's door. To think for a good 20 years it was pushed about that the whole disaster was down to Liverpool's supporters because of the Government of the day,  South Yorkshire police and that Tory MP whose name I cannot recall is frankly disgusting.

There was a cover up, no one can deny that but to say it went all the way up to Thatchers door and the whole of South Yorkshire police were involved, and also that it was the only reason why the disaster happened is wrong. Only a hand few of police officers will know what was happening at the time, other police officers around the ground will not know exactly what went on and will only being going by the accounts of those who were initially close to the Leppings end who were forced by those above them to alter their initial accounts. Anyone outside of these police officers will only know what happened by 'official' (I use the term official loosely) accounts, this includes MP's and Thatcher, what Irvine Patnick said to Thatcher and the press was wrong, no one can deny that.

 

Even though cover up of the police's role in the disaster is disgusting there was other factors that equally contributed to it happening, this often gets forgotten about.

 

My initial post was trying to get the point across that Liverpool fans seem to spent a lot of time focused on why 96 people died and not the actual fact that 96 people died.

 

I used the Valley Parade disaster as comparison because although there was no cover up to explain why the disaster happened like Hillsborough a lot of things in the build up happened that should have happened which led to the disaster. For one the stand had already been condemned as unsafe (Bradford were actually pulling the stand down at the end of the season). There was no fire extinguishers around when there should have been. The rubbish beneath the stand should not have been allowed to build up and there had been reportedly been concerns of it being a fire risk raised previously. Lastly the turnstile exits had been locked shut, meaning fans had to go onto the pitch to escape when in a lot of cases using the exits would have been quicker.

 

You can argue that the Bradford fans have also never found justice (I don't think you can ever really find justice in these types of circumstances) as no one has actually been held acceptable for these failings which lead to the disaster.

 

 

 

Thatcher's prints are all over it ffs.

 

 

EDIT:The South Yorkshire police's failure to regulate the ground properly was covered up by Thatcher as a thank you to South Yorkshire police and their "henchman" role in the Miner's strike. The Sheffield Hallam MP, Sir Irving Patnick "informed" The Sun of lies including looting of dead people's possessions, urinating on dead fans etc to put the Liverpool supporters in a terrible light. Where did his instructions come from? Not hard to work out is it?

[Guest bimpy474]

As awful as this was and should never have happened I always find it so odd that its in the media so often. It was a tragedy dont get me wrong but so were alot of things. It gets so much press its unreal. I am not a heartless b****** alot of people died that day but there are other tragedies that occurred in the past. Remember them on the anniversary but its over the top.

I'm baffled about them always talking about it and it always being in the media. Also what's up with the "Justice for the 96" instead of "R.I.P to the 96"?, particularly around the anniversary.

 

It's because the people of Liverpool have been campaigning for justice, in light of the injustice carried out by South Yorkshire police that day. It's in the media a lot, because 96 fans of the most successful club in English football, from one of the main cultural heartlands of the country died in a terrible crush. A crush which could have happened to any club at any time, and many fans around the time can tell story's of near misses. It has defined and shaped the culture of a major city and perhaps the rest of the country. An entire city no longer buys the largest selling newspaper. It's a campaign that has been backed by celebrities. On top of the large scale of death a light has been shown on to terrible police standards, corruption and collusion between the police, media and possibly even the government of the time.

There is a time and place for the justice part, at a time when you should be remembering them at an anniversary shouldn't it be time to reflect on the fact that 96 people lost their lives and not the circumstances around it?

 

How often do you see families of the Valley parade disaster asking for justice? There was just as many mistakes and different authorities to blame there for the people who died then as there is for Hillsbrough.

 

Was there bollocks. Hillsborough and the injustice of it all will be traced right up to Thatcher's door. To think for a good 20 years it was pushed about that the whole disaster was down to Liverpool's supporters because of the Government of the day,  South Yorkshire police and that Tory MP whose name I cannot recall is frankly disgusting.

There was a cover up, no one can deny that but to say it went all the way up to Thatchers door and the whole of South Yorkshire police were involved, and also that it was the only reason why the disaster happened is wrong. Only a hand few of police officers will know what was happening at the time, other police officers around the ground will not know exactly what went on and will only being going by the accounts of those who were initially close to the Leppings end who were forced by those above them to alter their initial accounts. Anyone outside of these police officers will only know what happened by 'official' (I use the term official loosely) accounts, this includes MP's and Thatcher, what Irvine Patnick said to Thatcher and the press was wrong, no one can deny that.

 

Even though cover up of the police's role in the disaster is disgusting there was other factors that equally contributed to it happening, this often gets forgotten about.

 

My initial post was trying to get the point across that Liverpool fans seem to spent a lot of time focused on why 96 people died and not the actual fact that 96 people died.

 

I used the Valley Parade disaster as comparison because although there was no cover up to explain why the disaster happened like Hillsborough a lot of things in the build up happened that should have happened which led to the disaster. For one the stand had already been condemned as unsafe (Bradford were actually pulling the stand down at the end of the season). There was no fire extinguishers around when there should have been. The rubbish beneath the stand should not have been allowed to build up and there had been reportedly been concerns of it being a fire risk raised previously. Lastly the turnstile exits had been locked shut, meaning fans had to go onto the pitch to escape when in a lot of cases using the exits would have been quicker.

 

You can argue that the Bradford fans have also never found justice (I don't think you can ever really find justice in these types of circumstances) as no one has actually been held acceptable for these failings which lead to the disaster.

 

 

 

Thatcher's prints are all over it ffs.

 

 

EDIT:The South Yorkshire police's failure to regulate the ground properly was covered up by Thatcher as a thank you to South Yorkshire police and their "henchman" role in the Miner's strike. The Sheffield Hallam MP, Sir Irving Patnick "informed" The Sun of lies including looting of dead people's possessions, urinating on dead fans etc to put the Liverpool supporters in a terrible light. Where did his instructions come from? Not hard to work out is it?

 

I would go with this but there's a reason i don't. We had a Labour Government for 13 years and if they knew that (and they would have), they wouldn't have hesitated to reveal it. I'm still trying to work why Labour kept refusing to have a fresh enquiry, nothing makes sense on that.

 

It's a bit weird it's Cameron who started the new enquiry off, seems if what you said was true he would have held off so not to embarrass the Tories. Whatever it is something is definitely not right with it all.

[Stifler]

As awful as this was and should never have happened I always find it so odd that its in the media so often. It was a tragedy dont get me wrong but so were alot of things. It gets so much press its unreal. I am not a heartless b****** alot of people died that day but there are other tragedies that occurred in the past. Remember them on the anniversary but its over the top.

I'm baffled about them always talking about it and it always being in the media. Also what's up with the "Justice for the 96" instead of "R.I.P to the 96"?, particularly around the anniversary.

 

It's because the people of Liverpool have been campaigning for justice, in light of the injustice carried out by South Yorkshire police that day. It's in the media a lot, because 96 fans of the most successful club in English football, from one of the main cultural heartlands of the country died in a terrible crush. A crush which could have happened to any club at any time, and many fans around the time can tell story's of near misses. It has defined and shaped the culture of a major city and perhaps the rest of the country. An entire city no longer buys the largest selling newspaper. It's a campaign that has been backed by celebrities. On top of the large scale of death a light has been shown on to terrible police standards, corruption and collusion between the police, media and possibly even the government of the time.

There is a time and place for the justice part, at a time when you should be remembering them at an anniversary shouldn't it be time to reflect on the fact that 96 people lost their lives and not the circumstances around it?

 

How often do you see families of the Valley parade disaster asking for justice? There was just as many mistakes and different authorities to blame there for the people who died then as there is for Hillsbrough.

 

Was there bollocks. Hillsborough and the injustice of it all will be traced right up to Thatcher's door. To think for a good 20 years it was pushed about that the whole disaster was down to Liverpool's supporters because of the Government of the day,  South Yorkshire police and that Tory MP whose name I cannot recall is frankly disgusting.

There was a cover up, no one can deny that but to say it went all the way up to Thatchers door and the whole of South Yorkshire police were involved, and also that it was the only reason why the disaster happened is wrong. Only a hand few of police officers will know what was happening at the time, other police officers around the ground will not know exactly what went on and will only being going by the accounts of those who were initially close to the Leppings end who were forced by those above them to alter their initial accounts. Anyone outside of these police officers will only know what happened by 'official' (I use the term official loosely) accounts, this includes MP's and Thatcher, what Irvine Patnick said to Thatcher and the press was wrong, no one can deny that.

 

Even though cover up of the police's role in the disaster is disgusting there was other factors that equally contributed to it happening, this often gets forgotten about.

 

My initial post was trying to get the point across that Liverpool fans seem to spent a lot of time focused on why 96 people died and not the actual fact that 96 people died.

 

I used the Valley Parade disaster as comparison because although there was no cover up to explain why the disaster happened like Hillsborough a lot of things in the build up happened that should have happened which led to the disaster. For one the stand had already been condemned as unsafe (Bradford were actually pulling the stand down at the end of the season). There was no fire extinguishers around when there should have been. The rubbish beneath the stand should not have been allowed to build up and there had been reportedly been concerns of it being a fire risk raised previously. Lastly the turnstile exits had been locked shut, meaning fans had to go onto the pitch to escape when in a lot of cases using the exits would have been quicker.

 

You can argue that the Bradford fans have also never found justice (I don't think you can ever really find justice in these types of circumstances) as no one has actually been held acceptable for these failings which lead to the disaster.

 

 

 

Thatcher's prints are all over it ffs.

 

 

EDIT:The South Yorkshire police's failure to regulate the ground properly was covered up by Thatcher as a thank you to South Yorkshire police and their "henchman" role in the Miner's strike. The Sheffield Hallam MP, Sir Irving Patnick "informed" The Sun of lies including looting of dead people's possessions, urinating on dead fans etc to put the Liverpool supporters in a terrible light. Where did his instructions come from? Not hard to work out is it?

There was a cover up, no doubt about it but it was a police cover up, the MP went along with this or was more accurately mislead by the police, hence why he went to both the Sun and to Thatcher and told the lies he did.

 

To say Thatcher was responsible for the cover up is like me saying there is a cover up at my work where someone is accusing me of doing something and the CEO is behind it.

[mickthemagpie]

I'm not sure how Thatcher can possibly be held responsible for what happened at Hillsborough. What happened afterwards is another matter.

[cp40]

Me too.

 

Only time I've ever been worried about my safety at a match. It was so packed  I spent the whole game watching over my left shoulder cos I couldn't turn to face the pitch. I also used to smoke like a chimney at the match, but at this one I couldn't get my tabs out of my pocket due to the crush.

How there wasn't fatalities, I'll never know.

 

yep.

Undoubtedly my scariest moment at any crowd/football match/ event.  I remember being twatted by a copper through the fence/gates dividing the paddocks becaue me n my mate asked him why the hell they werent opening them up.

Plus that idiot 'Alf Garnett' character running onto the pitch to gee up the crowd and I'm sure calling us northern monkeys...

Then seeing our fans in the corner getting pelted by coins from the fab Spurs fans...Oh the joys of 70s and 80s footlball.

 

 

watched it hanging from a fence cos there wasnt enough room in the terrace. it was the fence to the corner section that was segregation at first but had filled up with our fans.

[Incognito]

As awful as this was and should never have happened I always find it so odd that its in the media so often. It was a tragedy dont get me wrong but so were alot of things. It gets so much press its unreal. I am not a heartless b****** alot of people died that day but there are other tragedies that occurred in the past. Remember them on the anniversary but its over the top.

I'm baffled about them always talking about it and it always being in the media. Also what's up with the "Justice for the 96" instead of "R.I.P to the 96"?, particularly around the anniversary.

 

It's because the people of Liverpool have been campaigning for justice, in light of the injustice carried out by South Yorkshire police that day. It's in the media a lot, because 96 fans of the most successful club in English football, from one of the main cultural heartlands of the country died in a terrible crush. A crush which could have happened to any club at any time, and many fans around the time can tell story's of near misses. It has defined and shaped the culture of a major city and perhaps the rest of the country. An entire city no longer buys the largest selling newspaper. It's a campaign that has been backed by celebrities. On top of the large scale of death a light has been shown on to terrible police standards, corruption and collusion between the police, media and possibly even the government of the time.

There is a time and place for the justice part, at a time when you should be remembering them at an anniversary shouldn't it be time to reflect on the fact that 96 people lost their lives and not the circumstances around it?

 

How often do you see families of the Valley parade disaster asking for justice? There was just as many mistakes and different authorities to blame there for the people who died then as there is for Hillsbrough.

 

Was there bollocks. Hillsborough and the injustice of it all will be traced right up to Thatcher's door. To think for a good 20 years it was pushed about that the whole disaster was down to Liverpool's supporters because of the Government of the day,  South Yorkshire police and that Tory MP whose name I cannot recall is frankly disgusting.

There was a cover up, no one can deny that but to say it went all the way up to Thatchers door and the whole of South Yorkshire police were involved, and also that it was the only reason why the disaster happened is wrong. Only a hand few of police officers will know what was happening at the time, other police officers around the ground will not know exactly what went on and will only being going by the accounts of those who were initially close to the Leppings end who were forced by those above them to alter their initial accounts. Anyone outside of these police officers will only know what happened by 'official' (I use the term official loosely) accounts, this includes MP's and Thatcher, what Irvine Patnick said to Thatcher and the press was wrong, no one can deny that.

 

Even though cover up of the police's role in the disaster is disgusting there was other factors that equally contributed to it happening, this often gets forgotten about.

 

My initial post was trying to get the point across that Liverpool fans seem to spent a lot of time focused on why 96 people died and not the actual fact that 96 people died.

 

I used the Valley Parade disaster as comparison because although there was no cover up to explain why the disaster happened like Hillsborough a lot of things in the build up happened that should have happened which led to the disaster. For one the stand had already been condemned as unsafe (Bradford were actually pulling the stand down at the end of the season). There was no fire extinguishers around when there should have been. The rubbish beneath the stand should not have been allowed to build up and there had been reportedly been concerns of it being a fire risk raised previously. Lastly the turnstile exits had been locked shut, meaning fans had to go onto the pitch to escape when in a lot of cases using the exits would have been quicker.

 

You can argue that the Bradford fans have also never found justice (I don't think you can ever really find justice in these types of circumstances) as no one has actually been held acceptable for these failings which lead to the disaster.

 

 

 

Thatcher's prints are all over it ffs.

 

 

EDIT:The South Yorkshire police's failure to regulate the ground properly was covered up by Thatcher as a thank you to South Yorkshire police and their "henchman" role in the Miner's strike. The Sheffield Hallam MP, Sir Irving Patnick "informed" The Sun of lies including looting of dead people's possessions, urinating on dead fans etc to put the Liverpool supporters in a terrible light. Where did his instructions come from? Not hard to work out is it?

 

I would go with this but there's a reason i don't. We had a Labour Government for 13 years and if they knew that (and they would have), they wouldn't have hesitated to reveal it. I'm still trying to work why Labour kept refusing to have a fresh enquiry, nothing makes sense on that.

 

It's a bit weird it's Cameron who started the new enquiry off, seems if what you said was true he would have held off so not to embarrass the Tories. Whatever it is something is definitely not right with it all.

 

Cameron was PM but it was Andy Burnham who prompted the action. Labour actually did hold a fresh inquiry as one of the first acts of Tony Blair entering Downing St. Unfortunately it agreed with the original findings.

[Incognito]

I'm not sure how Thatcher can possibly be held responsible for what happened at Hillsborough. What happened afterwards is another matter.

 

She isn't being held responsible for the disaster.  The cover up afterward and the slanderous claims made, yes.

[Guest bimpy474]

As awful as this was and should never have happened I always find it so odd that its in the media so often. It was a tragedy dont get me wrong but so were alot of things. It gets so much press its unreal. I am not a heartless b****** alot of people died that day but there are other tragedies that occurred in the past. Remember them on the anniversary but its over the top.

I'm baffled about them always talking about it and it always being in the media. Also what's up with the "Justice for the 96" instead of "R.I.P to the 96"?, particularly around the anniversary.

 

It's because the people of Liverpool have been campaigning for justice, in light of the injustice carried out by South Yorkshire police that day. It's in the media a lot, because 96 fans of the most successful club in English football, from one of the main cultural heartlands of the country died in a terrible crush. A crush which could have happened to any club at any time, and many fans around the time can tell story's of near misses. It has defined and shaped the culture of a major city and perhaps the rest of the country. An entire city no longer buys the largest selling newspaper. It's a campaign that has been backed by celebrities. On top of the large scale of death a light has been shown on to terrible police standards, corruption and collusion between the police, media and possibly even the government of the time.

There is a time and place for the justice part, at a time when you should be remembering them at an anniversary shouldn't it be time to reflect on the fact that 96 people lost their lives and not the circumstances around it?

 

How often do you see families of the Valley parade disaster asking for justice? There was just as many mistakes and different authorities to blame there for the people who died then as there is for Hillsbrough.

 

Was there bollocks. Hillsborough and the injustice of it all will be traced right up to Thatcher's door. To think for a good 20 years it was pushed about that the whole disaster was down to Liverpool's supporters because of the Government of the day,  South Yorkshire police and that Tory MP whose name I cannot recall is frankly disgusting.

There was a cover up, no one can deny that but to say it went all the way up to Thatchers door and the whole of South Yorkshire police were involved, and also that it was the only reason why the disaster happened is wrong. Only a hand few of police officers will know what was happening at the time, other police officers around the ground will not know exactly what went on and will only being going by the accounts of those who were initially close to the Leppings end who were forced by those above them to alter their initial accounts. Anyone outside of these police officers will only know what happened by 'official' (I use the term official loosely) accounts, this includes MP's and Thatcher, what Irvine Patnick said to Thatcher and the press was wrong, no one can deny that.

 

Even though cover up of the police's role in the disaster is disgusting there was other factors that equally contributed to it happening, this often gets forgotten about.

 

My initial post was trying to get the point across that Liverpool fans seem to spent a lot of time focused on why 96 people died and not the actual fact that 96 people died.

 

I used the Valley Parade disaster as comparison because although there was no cover up to explain why the disaster happened like Hillsborough a lot of things in the build up happened that should have happened which led to the disaster. For one the stand had already been condemned as unsafe (Bradford were actually pulling the stand down at the end of the season). There was no fire extinguishers around when there should have been. The rubbish beneath the stand should not have been allowed to build up and there had been reportedly been concerns of it being a fire risk raised previously. Lastly the turnstile exits had been locked shut, meaning fans had to go onto the pitch to escape when in a lot of cases using the exits would have been quicker.

 

You can argue that the Bradford fans have also never found justice (I don't think you can ever really find justice in these types of circumstances) as no one has actually been held acceptable for these failings which lead to the disaster.

 

 

 

Thatcher's prints are all over it ffs.

 

 

EDIT:The South Yorkshire police's failure to regulate the ground properly was covered up by Thatcher as a thank you to South Yorkshire police and their "henchman" role in the Miner's strike. The Sheffield Hallam MP, Sir Irving Patnick "informed" The Sun of lies including looting of dead people's possessions, urinating on dead fans etc to put the Liverpool supporters in a terrible light. Where did his instructions come from? Not hard to work out is it?

 

I would go with this but there's a reason i don't. We had a Labour Government for 13 years and if they knew that (and they would have), they wouldn't have hesitated to reveal it. I'm still trying to work why Labour kept refusing to have a fresh enquiry, nothing makes sense on that.

 

It's a bit weird it's Cameron who started the new enquiry off, seems if what you said was true he would have held off so not to embarrass the Tories. Whatever it is something is definitely not right with it all.

 

Cameron was PM but it was Andy Burnham who prompted the action. Labour actually did hold a fresh inquiry as one of the first acts of Tony Blair entering Downing St. Unfortunately it agreed with the original findings.

 

Widely agreed that was a fudge though, not the proper enquiry this has been.

[magorific]

Some staggering views expressed here re "why are we still banging on about this?".

Before posting such shite, people should properly acquaint themselves with the huge array of evidence now available of not just astonishingly incompetent, insensitive and criminally negligent policing but the full extent of the cover-up (which DID extend to rank and file coppers) and ask themselves what the f*** THEY THEMSELVES would be doing - 25 years after the event - other than ask for justice for the son/husband/father/daughter who died (at a f***ing football match) as a result, and were subsequently smeared as drunken yobs who more or less had it coming.

People answered for Heysel in the criminal courts. The negligence which caused the Bradford fire was addressed in the courts. Hillsborough? There hasn't even been a proper inquest until now, let alone a single individual answer a criminal charge.

What the f*** are the "why bang on about it" brigade on?

[Incognito]

As awful as this was and should never have happened I always find it so odd that its in the media so often. It was a tragedy dont get me wrong but so were alot of things. It gets so much press its unreal. I am not a heartless b****** alot of people died that day but there are other tragedies that occurred in the past. Remember them on the anniversary but its over the top.

I'm baffled about them always talking about it and it always being in the media. Also what's up with the "Justice for the 96" instead of "R.I.P to the 96"?, particularly around the anniversary.

 

It's because the people of Liverpool have been campaigning for justice, in light of the injustice carried out by South Yorkshire police that day. It's in the media a lot, because 96 fans of the most successful club in English football, from one of the main cultural heartlands of the country died in a terrible crush. A crush which could have happened to any club at any time, and many fans around the time can tell story's of near misses. It has defined and shaped the culture of a major city and perhaps the rest of the country. An entire city no longer buys the largest selling newspaper. It's a campaign that has been backed by celebrities. On top of the large scale of death a light has been shown on to terrible police standards, corruption and collusion between the police, media and possibly even the government of the time.

There is a time and place for the justice part, at a time when you should be remembering them at an anniversary shouldn't it be time to reflect on the fact that 96 people lost their lives and not the circumstances around it?

 

How often do you see families of the Valley parade disaster asking for justice? There was just as many mistakes and different authorities to blame there for the people who died then as there is for Hillsbrough.

 

Was there bollocks. Hillsborough and the injustice of it all will be traced right up to Thatcher's door. To think for a good 20 years it was pushed about that the whole disaster was down to Liverpool's supporters because of the Government of the day,  South Yorkshire police and that Tory MP whose name I cannot recall is frankly disgusting.

There was a cover up, no one can deny that but to say it went all the way up to Thatchers door and the whole of South Yorkshire police were involved, and also that it was the only reason why the disaster happened is wrong. Only a hand few of police officers will know what was happening at the time, other police officers around the ground will not know exactly what went on and will only being going by the accounts of those who were initially close to the Leppings end who were forced by those above them to alter their initial accounts. Anyone outside of these police officers will only know what happened by 'official' (I use the term official loosely) accounts, this includes MP's and Thatcher, what Irvine Patnick said to Thatcher and the press was wrong, no one can deny that.

 

Even though cover up of the police's role in the disaster is disgusting there was other factors that equally contributed to it happening, this often gets forgotten about.

 

My initial post was trying to get the point across that Liverpool fans seem to spent a lot of time focused on why 96 people died and not the actual fact that 96 people died.

 

I used the Valley Parade disaster as comparison because although there was no cover up to explain why the disaster happened like Hillsborough a lot of things in the build up happened that should have happened which led to the disaster. For one the stand had already been condemned as unsafe (Bradford were actually pulling the stand down at the end of the season). There was no fire extinguishers around when there should have been. The rubbish beneath the stand should not have been allowed to build up and there had been reportedly been concerns of it being a fire risk raised previously. Lastly the turnstile exits had been locked shut, meaning fans had to go onto the pitch to escape when in a lot of cases using the exits would have been quicker.

 

You can argue that the Bradford fans have also never found justice (I don't think you can ever really find justice in these types of circumstances) as no one has actually been held acceptable for these failings which lead to the disaster.

 

 

 

Thatcher's prints are all over it ffs.

 

 

EDIT:The South Yorkshire police's failure to regulate the ground properly was covered up by Thatcher as a thank you to South Yorkshire police and their "henchman" role in the Miner's strike. The Sheffield Hallam MP, Sir Irving Patnick "informed" The Sun of lies including looting of dead people's possessions, urinating on dead fans etc to put the Liverpool supporters in a terrible light. Where did his instructions come from? Not hard to work out is it?

 

I would go with this but there's a reason i don't. We had a Labour Government for 13 years and if they knew that (and they would have), they wouldn't have hesitated to reveal it. I'm still trying to work why Labour kept refusing to have a fresh enquiry, nothing makes sense on that.

 

It's a bit weird it's Cameron who started the new enquiry off, seems if what you said was true he would have held off so not to embarrass the Tories. Whatever it is something is definitely not right with it all.

 

Cameron was PM but it was Andy Burnham who prompted the action. Labour actually did hold a fresh inquiry as one of the first acts of Tony Blair entering Downing St. Unfortunately it agreed with the original findings.

 

Widely agreed that was a fudge though, not the proper enquiry this has been.

 

They probably did it too soon into their term. Andy Burnham thinks that their inexperience at dealing with civil servants tainted the enquiry as the Justice Stuart Smith seems to have continued the duplicity shown in Justice Taylor's original enquiry. Labour should certainly have not let it lie there though and credit to Andy Burnham,  Steve Rotherham and the rest of the Liverpool MPs for their continued plight to get to where we are now.

[Incognito]

Some staggering views expressed here re "why are we still banging on about this?".

Before posting such shite, people should properly acquaint themselves with the huge array of evidence now available of not just astonishingly incompetent, insensitive and criminally negligent policing but the full extent of the cover-up (which DID extend to rank and file coppers) and ask themselves what the f*** THEY THEMSELVES would be doing - 25 years after the event - other than ask for justice for the son/husband/father/daughter who died (at a f***ing football match) as a result, and were subsequently smeared as drunken yobs who more or less had it coming.

People answered for Heysel in the criminal courts. The negligence which caused the Bradford fire was addressed in the courts. Hillsborough? There hasn't even been a proper inquest until now, let alone a single individual answer a criminal charge.

What the f*** are the "why bang on about it" brigade on?

 

Remarkable isnt it. Well said.

[Guest bimpy474]

As awful as this was and should never have happened I always find it so odd that its in the media so often. It was a tragedy dont get me wrong but so were alot of things. It gets so much press its unreal. I am not a heartless b****** alot of people died that day but there are other tragedies that occurred in the past. Remember them on the anniversary but its over the top.

I'm baffled about them always talking about it and it always being in the media. Also what's up with the "Justice for the 96" instead of "R.I.P to the 96"?, particularly around the anniversary.

 

It's because the people of Liverpool have been campaigning for justice, in light of the injustice carried out by South Yorkshire police that day. It's in the media a lot, because 96 fans of the most successful club in English football, from one of the main cultural heartlands of the country died in a terrible crush. A crush which could have happened to any club at any time, and many fans around the time can tell story's of near misses. It has defined and shaped the culture of a major city and perhaps the rest of the country. An entire city no longer buys the largest selling newspaper. It's a campaign that has been backed by celebrities. On top of the large scale of death a light has been shown on to terrible police standards, corruption and collusion between the police, media and possibly even the government of the time.

There is a time and place for the justice part, at a time when you should be remembering them at an anniversary shouldn't it be time to reflect on the fact that 96 people lost their lives and not the circumstances around it?

 

How often do you see families of the Valley parade disaster asking for justice? There was just as many mistakes and different authorities to blame there for the people who died then as there is for Hillsbrough.

 

Was there bollocks. Hillsborough and the injustice of it all will be traced right up to Thatcher's door. To think for a good 20 years it was pushed about that the whole disaster was down to Liverpool's supporters because of the Government of the day,  South Yorkshire police and that Tory MP whose name I cannot recall is frankly disgusting.

There was a cover up, no one can deny that but to say it went all the way up to Thatchers door and the whole of South Yorkshire police were involved, and also that it was the only reason why the disaster happened is wrong. Only a hand few of police officers will know what was happening at the time, other police officers around the ground will not know exactly what went on and will only being going by the accounts of those who were initially close to the Leppings end who were forced by those above them to alter their initial accounts. Anyone outside of these police officers will only know what happened by 'official' (I use the term official loosely) accounts, this includes MP's and Thatcher, what Irvine Patnick said to Thatcher and the press was wrong, no one can deny that.

 

Even though cover up of the police's role in the disaster is disgusting there was other factors that equally contributed to it happening, this often gets forgotten about.

 

My initial post was trying to get the point across that Liverpool fans seem to spent a lot of time focused on why 96 people died and not the actual fact that 96 people died.

 

I used the Valley Parade disaster as comparison because although there was no cover up to explain why the disaster happened like Hillsborough a lot of things in the build up happened that should have happened which led to the disaster. For one the stand had already been condemned as unsafe (Bradford were actually pulling the stand down at the end of the season). There was no fire extinguishers around when there should have been. The rubbish beneath the stand should not have been allowed to build up and there had been reportedly been concerns of it being a fire risk raised previously. Lastly the turnstile exits had been locked shut, meaning fans had to go onto the pitch to escape when in a lot of cases using the exits would have been quicker.

 

You can argue that the Bradford fans have also never found justice (I don't think you can ever really find justice in these types of circumstances) as no one has actually been held acceptable for these failings which lead to the disaster.

 

 

 

Thatcher's prints are all over it ffs.

 

 

EDIT:The South Yorkshire police's failure to regulate the ground properly was covered up by Thatcher as a thank you to South Yorkshire police and their "henchman" role in the Miner's strike. The Sheffield Hallam MP, Sir Irving Patnick "informed" The Sun of lies including looting of dead people's possessions, urinating on dead fans etc to put the Liverpool supporters in a terrible light. Where did his instructions come from? Not hard to work out is it?

 

I would go with this but there's a reason i don't. We had a Labour Government for 13 years and if they knew that (and they would have), they wouldn't have hesitated to reveal it. I'm still trying to work why Labour kept refusing to have a fresh enquiry, nothing makes sense on that.

 

It's a bit weird it's Cameron who started the new enquiry off, seems if what you said was true he would have held off so not to embarrass the Tories. Whatever it is something is definitely not right with it all.

 

Cameron was PM but it was Andy Burnham who prompted the action. Labour actually did hold a fresh inquiry as one of the first acts of Tony Blair entering Downing St. Unfortunately it agreed with the original findings.

 

Widely agreed that was a fudge though, not the proper enquiry this has been.

 

They probably did it too soon into their term. Andy Burnham thinks that their inexperience at dealing with civil servants tainted the enquiry as the Justice Stuart Smith seems to have continued the duplicity shown in Justice Taylor's original enquiry. Labour should certainly have not let it lie there though and credit to Andy Burnham,  Steve Rotherham and the rest of the Liverpool MPs for their continued plight to get to where we are now.

 

Aye they have done well tbf. I think my point really is, that say Thatcher did have some thing do with a cover up, Labour would have said so by now. The police involved certainly did cover things up and i hope they get what's coming tothem, and hope that coming is long sentences.