RIP sale thread.

[macca888]

Mowen

 

Wrong, Ashley did not get us relegated. The players did that and noone can deny the lack of performances from them that cost us our position in the EPL.

 

You cannot blame Ashley for that.

[relámpago blanco]

Mowen

 

Look at the transfers out as well. A few players left too. Furthermore, due to mhis l;ack of due diligence, I guess Ashley was only finding out the real extent of the debt well after subsidising Allardyce.

 

On top of that, it is well known that Ashley has paid off over 100 million pounds of debt out of his own pocket, something the pervious administration would never have done. He deserves some credit for that.

 

We only spent about £10m net on transfer fees iirc, but it's further evidence of Ashley's incompetance that he allowed the wage bill to expand the way it did whilst apparently trying to tighten purse strings. A lot of high earners have been brought in on his watch. Also, I'm pretty sure it isn't well known Ashley spent £100m of his own money paying off debt, doesn't he want it back as part of the sale?

 

I think it is possibly THE single most well known fact from the Ashley era, that he spent his own money to pay off most of our debt.

 

It was all over the papers for weeks and weeks and Chris Mort was particularly public in thanking him (on behalf of the club) for doing that!

 

The thing that is NOT known, I think, is whether Ashley will expect this £100M+ back, as part of the sale, or not . . .

 

 

 

My point is that if he expects it back, he hasn't paid it off. If I buy you a pint, but then ask for the money I've not really done you that much of a favour.

 

Also, I think "THE single most well known fact from the Ashley era" is that the c*** got us relegated.

 

Yes, I agree your last sentence!

Damian Duff did it imo.

[Matt]

The long-term debt, associated with the ground development, had about £60m outstanding and this was only paid becuase Ashley took over and triggered a repayment clause. This would not have been needed to be paid under the old regime. So no credit can be given for that, only derision that he was so foolhardy as to not conduct any kind of proper checks and displayed a lack of basic knowledge, this sort of clause is bog standard stuff.

 

No-one seems to realise that well-structured, stable debt (such as the stadium loan) is actually very good business. There was no problem there. Ashley has not 'saved us' from that.

 

If Ashley was approaching this club in a business-like way they'd have modelled the finances, worked out how much was required and worked out what finance was needed and in what form. They wouldn't have been scurrying to Mike's cash pile because of something else they hadn't realised. His poor investment decisions and woeful boardroom decisions have scuttled the club's valuation. To get £100m out of the whole affair would be a very lucky escape.

 

The concept that our relegation wasn't really down to MA is comical. We might have been poorly run in the past, but he's taken it to a whole new level. Still there are people in this thread who seem to have swallowed all the bull about his business plan and basing it around young players and making a good profit. That's no use if the most critical business appointments you make are based on utter lunacy.

 

[Mowen]

Mowen

 

Wrong, Ashley did not get us relegated. The players did that and noone can deny the lack of performances from them that cost us our position in the EPL.

 

You cannot blame Ashley for that.

 

Our players were shocking and deserved to get relegated, no doubt. I don't (collectively) absolve them of any blame there. I do, however, blame Ashley for failing to recognise this and do anything about it. It wasn't complicated.

 

p.s. saying EPL is fucking wank.

[Howaythelads]

The long-term debt, associated with the ground development, had about £60m outstanding and this was only paid becuase Ashley took over and triggered a repayment clause. This would not have been needed to be paid under the old regime. So no credit can be given for that, only derision that he was so foolhardy as to not conduct any kind of proper checks and displayed a lack of basic knowledge, this sort of clause is bog standard stuff.

 

No-one seems to realise that well-structured, stable debt (such as the stadium loan) is actually very good business. There was no problem there. Ashley has not 'saved us' from that.

 

If Ashley was approaching this club in a business-like way they'd have modelled the finances, worked out how much was required and worked out what finance was needed and in what form. They wouldn't have been scurrying to Mike's cash pile because of something else they hadn't realised. His poor investment decisions and woeful boardroom decisions have scuttled the club's valuation. To get £100m out of the whole affair would be a very lucky escape.

 

The concept that our relegation wasn't really down to MA is comical. We might have been poorly run in the past, but he's taken it to a whole new level. Still there are people in this thread who seem to have swallowed all the bull about his business plan and basing it around young players and making a good profit. That's no use if the most critical business appointments you make are based on utter lunacy.

 

 

A few people have, to be fair.

 

Great post, man. 

[Howaythelads]

Mowen

 

Wrong, Ashley did not get us relegated. The players did that and noone can deny the lack of performances from them that cost us our position in the EPL.

 

You cannot blame Ashley for that.

 

Our players were shocking and deserved to get relegated, no doubt. I don't (collectively) absolve them of any blame there. I do, however, blame Ashley for failing to recognise this and do anything about it. It wasn't complicated.

p.s. saying EPL is fucking wank.

 

 

Exactly what I was thinking when I read it. 

[cubaricho]

Ugh, are you kids still going on about Keegan in a takeover thread?  Get the fuck over it and grow up.

[NG32]

Ugh, are you kids still going on about Keegan in a takeover thread?  Get the f*** over it and grow up.

 

Keep ya neb oot, we've been have a good discussion ftw.

 

And there isn't much else to talk about is there.

 

If you dont like it, dont smoke it.

[Howaythelads]

Ugh, are you kids still going on about Keegan in a takeover thread?  Get the fuck over it and grow up.

 

 

I wish.

[macca888]

Didnt mean to offend you guys by using EPL even though it is quite a correct term.

 

I suppose you would be more happy with the CCC..............................LOL

 

Regarding the post about the stadium debt, I was unaware of what the conditions of this debt were but in interviews over the past 12 months, Ashley has stated that the club was still paying off 27 million pounds in relation to previous transfers for the likes of Luque etc.

 

Also, as far as I was aware, we still owed Inter Milan 6  million pounds for Martins when we transferred him to Wolfsburg this season.

 

The previous regime's antics in getting all money required to buy players from sponsorship etc eg Northern Rock up front has had a significant effect on income as well.

 

So, even without the stadium debt, substantial debt was still owing and there wasnt a lot coming in to pay for it.

[NG32]

Didnt mean to offend you guys by using EPL even though it is quite a correct term.

 

I suppose you would be more happy with the CCC..............................LOL

 

Regarding the post about the stadium debt, I was unaware of what the conditions of this debt were but in interviews over the past 12 months, Ashley has stated that the club was still paying off 27 million pounds in relation to previous transfers for the likes of Luque etc.

 

Also, as far as I was aware, we still owed Inter Milan 6  million pounds for Martins when we transferred him to Wolfsburg this season.

 

The previous regime's antics in getting all money required to buy players from sponsorship etc eg Northern Rock up front has had a significant effect on income as well.

 

So, even without the stadium debt, substantial debt was still owing and there wasnt a lot coming in to pay for it.

 

EPL is actually not the correct term, Its just the premier league.

 

So if its all the fault of the previous bored with buying players on the drip, why did ashley sell our players to other clubs on the drip and then enforce his own rule of buying players out right, only using the money we can generate from sales.

 

It doesn't add up especially for a businessman and especially since his asset was fighting for its life in the prem league.

 

He wiped 100 mill off his own asset by being totally fucking stupid.

[Howaythelads]

Didnt mean to offend you guys by using EPL even though it is quite a correct term.

 

I suppose you would be more happy with the CCC..............................LOL

 

Regarding the post about the stadium debt, I was unaware of what the conditions of this debt were but in interviews over the past 12 months, Ashley has stated that the club was still paying off 27 million pounds in relation to previous transfers for the likes of Luque etc.

 

Also, as far as I was aware, we still owed Inter Milan 6  million pounds for Martins when we transferred him to Wolfsburg this season.

 

The previous regime's antics in getting all money required to buy players from sponsorship etc eg Northern Rock up front has had a significant effect on income as well.

 

So, even without the stadium debt, substantial debt was still owing and there wasnt a lot coming in to pay for it.

 

EPL is actually not the correct term, Its just the premier league.

 

So if its all the fault of the previous bored with buying players on the drip, why did ashley sell our players to other clubs on the drip and then enforce his own rule of buying players out right, only using the money we can generate from sales.

 

It doesn't add up especially for a businessman and especially since his asset was fighting for its life in the prem league.

 

He wiped 100 mill off his own asset by being totally fucking stupid.

 

And it's all Keegan's fault. Apparently. 

[Howaythelads]

Ian

 

As some people have taken the time and trouble to explain the facts regarding the myth of the 12 point lead, I was wondering just now whether you have any further comment to make about it?

 

Cheers

[Thomson Mouse]

I agree that too many people on here have looked upon Keegan as a God for too long, based purely on his 5 years period in the 90s when he spent just as much, if not more, than other managers around at the time. That was all history when he came back.

 

Whether Ashley has gone back on promises to KK or not, is immaterial in this discussion. As some once else pointed out earlier in this thread, how many other managers would have spat the dummy because he couldnt get the owner to buy him a left back? I would say, virtually none. I dont buy the argument from KK about Denis Wise involvement either. As far as I recall, KK admitted he knew Wise was going to be appointed  before he came back.

 

I have no doubts at all that Keegan's ego mplayed a huge part in this whole saga and the biggest mistake Ashley made was appointing a so called fans favourite who would ultimately use his popularity with the fans to try and gain the ascendancy in the club.

 

Lets be honest here, whereever Keegan has gone in the past, he has not been able to operate without substantial funds and it has been clear for long enough now that the financial state of the club, even before Keegan came back, has been horrendous and needed to be addressed without any further financial deterioration. Keegan wanted his slice, the club could not afford it, Keegan spat his usual dummy and now, we are paying for the consequences. I hope Ashley wins his case againast Keegan, because KK neither deserves or warrants any financial compensation for his role in this whole saga. He should be ashamed of himself. a real bloody con man, if ever I saw one. AND YOU SUPPORTERS MAY HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.

 

More tripe.

 

Your far flung location sees you detached from reality but really, there is no excuse given the power of the internet.

 

When Keegan was appointed by fat ash the reality is that people saw him as a manager with some talent who may turn the team into a decent one and who may see us up near the top 6 or so and looking like challengers. Babbling on the way you do about Keegan being seen as a god or something merely goes to show your knowledge of the club and it's supporters is limited to what you read in the media.

 

Love the reference to YOU SUPPORTERS by the way. That tells a story. I suggest you stick to stuff about australia and leave the Newcastle stuff to those more clued up.

 

A rather angry and irrational response which rather confirms what macca was saying. Keegan has a status which, in many people's eyes, puts him beyond criticism.

 

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen him described as a 'legend'. I've also found that when you criticise the man, the response is often one of moral outrage, as though you'd pissed on the steps of the Vatican rather than made an observation about a human being who is as flawed as the rest of us.

 

Not his first though, is it?  Anyone who doesn't agree with him is talking 'tripe' and anyone who lives in Australia (including myself), has to bow to his superior knowledge of all things NUFC.

 

What a wonderful person to go for a pint before the match with 

 

 

Can't say I've ever noticed you. Who are you?

 

You won't know this, but people who go to the match disagree, so disagreeing with someone is nowt to do with whether or not someone like you or your mate are in australia, it's more to do with the content of posts made, which exhibit a huge degree of ignorance....or tripe, about Newcastle United. 

 

 

Sorry, didn't realise that I needed to have over 100 posts to disagree with you (which we have done in the past over Shepherd). Please let us know your recognition scheme in the future.

 

The bit in bold...you're making yourself look a bit more of a prick now, you see, I only moved to Australia in Jan this year and had been going to the matches since '82, So I know all about disagreeing, just not in your usual way of completely putting down the other persons point of view.

 

If it's got nowt to do with macca being in Australia, why did you bring it up and use it against him?

 

I'll not be expecting a straight answer.

 

Fucking loon.

 

 

 

[afar]

Oh ffs, take this someplace else.

[NG32]

Nah, its all related to the sale of the club.

[Mowen]

Some decent debate over the last few pages imo.

[Howaythelads]

I agree that too many people on here have looked upon Keegan as a God for too long, based purely on his 5 years period in the 90s when he spent just as much, if not more, than other managers around at the time. That was all history when he came back.

 

Whether Ashley has gone back on promises to KK or not, is immaterial in this discussion. As some once else pointed out earlier in this thread, how many other managers would have spat the dummy because he couldnt get the owner to buy him a left back? I would say, virtually none. I dont buy the argument from KK about Denis Wise involvement either. As far as I recall, KK admitted he knew Wise was going to be appointed  before he came back.

 

I have no doubts at all that Keegan's ego mplayed a huge part in this whole saga and the biggest mistake Ashley made was appointing a so called fans favourite who would ultimately use his popularity with the fans to try and gain the ascendancy in the club.

 

Lets be honest here, whereever Keegan has gone in the past, he has not been able to operate without substantial funds and it has been clear for long enough now that the financial state of the club, even before Keegan came back, has been horrendous and needed to be addressed without any further financial deterioration. Keegan wanted his slice, the club could not afford it, Keegan spat his usual dummy and now, we are paying for the consequences. I hope Ashley wins his case againast Keegan, because KK neither deserves or warrants any financial compensation for his role in this whole saga. He should be ashamed of himself. a real bloody con man, if ever I saw one. AND YOU SUPPORTERS MAY HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.

 

More tripe.

 

Your far flung location sees you detached from reality but really, there is no excuse given the power of the internet.

 

When Keegan was appointed by fat ash the reality is that people saw him as a manager with some talent who may turn the team into a decent one and who may see us up near the top 6 or so and looking like challengers. Babbling on the way you do about Keegan being seen as a god or something merely goes to show your knowledge of the club and it's supporters is limited to what you read in the media.

 

Love the reference to YOU SUPPORTERS by the way. That tells a story. I suggest you stick to stuff about australia and leave the Newcastle stuff to those more clued up.

 

A rather angry and irrational response which rather confirms what macca was saying. Keegan has a status which, in many people's eyes, puts him beyond criticism.

 

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen him described as a 'legend'. I've also found that when you criticise the man, the response is often one of moral outrage, as though you'd pissed on the steps of the Vatican rather than made an observation about a human being who is as flawed as the rest of us.

 

Not his first though, is it?  Anyone who doesn't agree with him is talking 'tripe' and anyone who lives in Australia (including myself), has to bow to his superior knowledge of all things NUFC.

 

What a wonderful person to go for a pint before the match with 

 

 

Can't say I've ever noticed you. Who are you?

 

You won't know this, but people who go to the match disagree, so disagreeing with someone is nowt to do with whether or not someone like you or your mate are in australia, it's more to do with the content of posts made, which exhibit a huge degree of ignorance....or tripe, about Newcastle United. 

 

 

Sorry, didn't realise that I needed to have over 100 posts to disagree with you (which we have done in the past over Shepherd). Please let us know your recognition scheme in the future.

 

The bit in bold...you're making yourself look a bit more of a prick now, you see, I only moved to Australia in Jan this year and had been going to the matches since '82, So I know all about disagreeing, just not in your usual way of completely putting down the other persons point of view.

 

If it's got nowt to do with macca being in Australia, why did you bring it up and use it against him?

 

I'll not be expecting a straight answer.

 

Fucking loon.

 

 

 

 

You again. 

 

Mate, I've said nowt about 100 posts. Making stuff up is a bad sign.

 

If you've been going to matches since 1982 and have recently moved to australia I'm sure you will agree it's much more difficult to maintain a decent grip on what is happening in Newcastle from the other side of the Planet. Macca has lived in australia for years, my point is that he does not have an accurate idea of "the feeling" about the club, Ashley or Keegan and it comes across in the content of his posts. His view is based on incomplete information and that is due in some measure to his location. That you find it insulting that I mention is a laugh. Are you going to claim someone on the other side of Planet Earth has the same "feel" for what is happening in Newcastle as those living there or going there on a regular basis?

 

I've lived abroad as well, so think carefully before you reply. You lied at the top of your last post so I won't be surprised if you do so again.

 

Hope that's a straight enough answer for you, mate.

 

Note the lack of bad language and juvenile name calling in my reply.

[afar]

Some decent debate over the last few pages imo.

 

Not whaen they are calling each other fucking loons and bringing up tired old debates. I come on here expecting to hear the latest on the club sale, not this crap, if you want to talk about this nonsense over and over again, start a new bloody thread or take it to PMs.

[Thomson Mouse]

I agree that too many people on here have looked upon Keegan as a God for too long, based purely on his 5 years period in the 90s when he spent just as much, if not more, than other managers around at the time. That was all history when he came back.

 

Whether Ashley has gone back on promises to KK or not, is immaterial in this discussion. As some once else pointed out earlier in this thread, how many other managers would have spat the dummy because he couldnt get the owner to buy him a left back? I would say, virtually none. I dont buy the argument from KK about Denis Wise involvement either. As far as I recall, KK admitted he knew Wise was going to be appointed  before he came back.

 

I have no doubts at all that Keegan's ego mplayed a huge part in this whole saga and the biggest mistake Ashley made was appointing a so called fans favourite who would ultimately use his popularity with the fans to try and gain the ascendancy in the club.

 

Lets be honest here, whereever Keegan has gone in the past, he has not been able to operate without substantial funds and it has been clear for long enough now that the financial state of the club, even before Keegan came back, has been horrendous and needed to be addressed without any further financial deterioration. Keegan wanted his slice, the club could not afford it, Keegan spat his usual dummy and now, we are paying for the consequences. I hope Ashley wins his case againast Keegan, because KK neither deserves or warrants any financial compensation for his role in this whole saga. He should be ashamed of himself. a real bloody con man, if ever I saw one. AND YOU SUPPORTERS MAY HAVE TO PAY FOR IT.

 

More tripe.

 

Your far flung location sees you detached from reality but really, there is no excuse given the power of the internet.

 

When Keegan was appointed by fat ash the reality is that people saw him as a manager with some talent who may turn the team into a decent one and who may see us up near the top 6 or so and looking like challengers. Babbling on the way you do about Keegan being seen as a god or something merely goes to show your knowledge of the club and it's supporters is limited to what you read in the media.

 

Love the reference to YOU SUPPORTERS by the way. That tells a story. I suggest you stick to stuff about australia and leave the Newcastle stuff to those more clued up.

 

A rather angry and irrational response which rather confirms what macca was saying. Keegan has a status which, in many people's eyes, puts him beyond criticism.

 

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen him described as a 'legend'. I've also found that when you criticise the man, the response is often one of moral outrage, as though you'd pissed on the steps of the Vatican rather than made an observation about a human being who is as flawed as the rest of us.

 

Not his first though, is it?  Anyone who doesn't agree with him is talking 'tripe' and anyone who lives in Australia (including myself), has to bow to his superior knowledge of all things NUFC.

 

What a wonderful person to go for a pint before the match with 

 

 

Can't say I've ever noticed you. Who are you?

 

You won't know this, but people who go to the match disagree, so disagreeing with someone is nowt to do with whether or not someone like you or your mate are in australia, it's more to do with the content of posts made, which exhibit a huge degree of ignorance....or tripe, about Newcastle United. 

 

 

Sorry, didn't realise that I needed to have over 100 posts to disagree with you (which we have done in the past over Shepherd). Please let us know your recognition scheme in the future.

 

The bit in bold...you're making yourself look a bit more of a prick now, you see, I only moved to Australia in Jan this year and had been going to the matches since '82, So I know all about disagreeing, just not in your usual way of completely putting down the other persons point of view.

 

If it's got nowt to do with macca being in Australia, why did you bring it up and use it against him?

 

I'll not be expecting a straight answer.

 

f***ing loon.

 

 

 

 

You again. 

 

Mate, I've said nowt about 100 posts. Making stuff up is a bad sign.

 

If you've been going to matches since 1982 and have recently moved to australia I'm sure you will agree it's much more difficult to maintain a decent grip on what is happening in Newcastle. Macca has lived in australia for years, my point is that he does not have a proper idea of "the feeling" about the club, Ashley or Keegan and it comes across in the content of his posts. His view is based on incomplete information and that is due in some measure to his location. That you find it insulting that I mention is a laugh. Are you going to claim someone on the other side of Planet Earth has the same "feel" for what is happening in Newcastle as those living there or going there on a regular basis?

 

I've lived abroad as well, so think carefully before you reply. You lied at the top of your last post so I won't be surprised if you do so again.

 

I'm thinking carefully and did not lie.

 

I don't think it's hard to keep up to date. I have the internet, lots of mates who go and watch the matches.

 

Apologies for not actually being 'there' and having the 'feeling'.

 

You're talking tripe now.

[NG32]

Some decent debate over the last few pages imo.

 

Not whaen they are calling each other f***ing loons and bringing up tired old debates. I come on here expecting to hear the latest on the club sale, not this crap, if you want to talk about this nonsense over and over again, start a new bloody thread or take it to PMs.

 

There is no take over talk so people are discussing the causes of the eventual sale.

 

All related.

[Thomson Mouse]

Some decent debate over the last few pages imo.

 

Not whaen they are calling each other f***ing loons and bringing up tired old debates. I come on here expecting to hear the latest on the club sale, not this crap, if you want to talk about this nonsense over and over again, start a new bloody thread or take it to PMs.

 

Honestly? I gave up doing that a while ago.

[Mowen]

Some decent debate over the last few pages imo.

 

Not whaen they are calling each other fucking loons and bringing up tired old debates. I come on here expecting to hear the latest on the club sale, not this crap, if you want to talk about this nonsense over and over again, start a new bloody thread or take it to PMs.

 

There was one post where someone called another poster a loon. Other than that it's been good debate. Threads evolve you know, although your post isn't on topic either so why didn't you just PM everyone?

[afar]

Some decent debate over the last few pages imo.

 

Not whaen they are calling each other f***ing loons and bringing up tired old debates. I come on here expecting to hear the latest on the club sale, not this crap, if you want to talk about this nonsense over and over again, start a new bloody thread or take it to PMs.

 

There is no take over talk so people are discussing the causes of the eventual sale.

 

All related.

 

No it's not related in the slightest. It's just people using it as a veil to cover their own petty little agendas, you've got Bobyule with his "I fucking hate Keegan" stance he's always on, you've got HTL, with his same old "I Love Fat Fred stance and anyone who doesn't is a moron" stance, and then everyone else who gets pissed off with one or both of them chiming in.

 

It's not related to the club sale at all.

[NG32]

So the issue with KK quitting or being forced out has nothing to do with the sale of the club?